"How to Say Nothing" Questions - In class response

[dvan...@hcrhs.org]

Please post your answers to the following questions after the conclusion of SSR in today's class.

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay.

3) The author describes several bad habits of student writers. Did you see any truth in his observations? How do students develop these habits?

[RYAN HAINES]

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

I could relate most to the section called "Get Rid of Obvious Padding." In nearly all of my essays and papers that have a minimum word count I have filled simple sentences with words that mean nothing at all. Avoiding the Obvious Content and Taking the less usual side are both topics I find very useful, as they provide things you wouldn't expect to see and allow you to expand your writing. Just because you're writing for an audience doesn't always mean they have to agree with you.

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay.

The tone that the author sticks with is a dry humorous one.  He includes small fun items in most of the lines, while still keeping the essay serious and driving the point through.

3) The author describes several bad habits of student writers. Did you see any truth in his observations? How do students develop these habits?

Yes! Most if not all of his observations are true. Students develop these habits mostly through word minimums. If you can say 1000 words worth of content in 250 words just as well, than congratulations, because that is an ability most do not possess, and a skill essential to good writing. But the 5 paragraph essay and valuing quantity over quality often cause students to lose track of that, or never learn it in the beginning.

[HANNAH BRUZZIO]

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

I find the part about word choice without "fluff" or "padding" the most useful. Right click-synonyms is my main source of word choice when writing and I would like to work on having the proper word choice without using that, in a way, cheat. This skill will particularly help on the SATs and other timed writing prompts I will have to do.

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay.

The predominant tone in this piece is humorous. They make some jokes here and there but over all the piece is still very informative in a way that the students writing the 500 essay will relate to and learn from.

3) The author describes several bad habits of student writers. Did you see any truth in his observations? How do students develop these habits?

He mentions that students tend to over describe or make things much longer than they need to be. This totally has some truth, I know I have done it. This is mostly because for many of the projects I have ever written involved a page limit and when you fall short of that limit you go back and add all the nonsense. This reason also works for the habit he mentions as not being to the point. If we want to say something we should just come out and say it and not be abstract. The page limit thing allows students to back and add all the abstract stuff to the paper because you need to fill space.

[CARTER RICE]

1) I thought that I related the most to the author's point of writing about an unusual viewpoint mainly because that is how I feel about the college essay. It is important to separate yourself from the other applicants by doing something different rather than a generic form, such as overcoming adversity to be who you are. I thought that the author's point to take out filler words was the most useful because it can make your essay much less boring by getting points across more often with the same amount of words.

2) I would describe the tone as matter-of-fact because it did not try to diminish any person that doesn't have a unique topic and seemed to just lay out ideas of how to improve your essay-writing abilities. The author also did not look back on any personal examples that would have made him seem arrogant about writing, which helped to keep his point valid and unbiased.

3) The author points out that students tend to put their tasks off, to write about generic topics, and to add padding to their writing in order to meet the word limit. I think these are all valid observations based on what I have seen from my friends' habits, which are all the same. They develop because there is no real motivation for most students to put in a lot of effort and extra thought into an essay when there is a certain amount of work that they can get by with, so they simply do not go the extra mile. This can turn the laziness into a habit due to the frequency it occurs at, which can cause problems when writers need to be different and write efficiently.

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

Please post your answers to the following questions after the conclusion of SSR in today's class.

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay?

[MEAGAN ROBICHAUD]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

Please post your answers to the following questions after the conclusion of SSR in today's class.

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

        I most related to the piece of advice about getting rid of the unwanted and unnecessary information that basically just fills up the paper with empty words and sentences in order to meet the requirements.  For research papers or speeches in history I tend to do this a lot because most of the time I have no idea what I'm talking about but I put a lot of "fluff" to make it sound like I do.  I found the three sections on colored words, colorful words, and colorless words most useful because this is a tip that can be changed easily and improved upon at this stage in our writing.

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay.

        The predominant tone is very sarcastic, comical, and inviting.  You get the sense that the writer wants you to do better in writing 500 word essays and he takes a sarcastic view to reach out to readers like us and keep them engaged.  Throughout the piece you also feel like the writer can relate to the problems he explains how to fix just as if he was in our shoes a few years ago and now he's sharing his own secrets.

3) The author describes several bad habits of student writers. Did you see any truth in his observations? How do students develop these habits?

          I see much truth in his observations.  For example, although I am only one student writer and one opinion, I found myself relating to a lot of the simple mistakes students make highlighted in this essay.  Whether I made them in lower grades or I am still making them now and working to change them, the essay was very easy to relate to. Students could develop these habits from a variety of sources.  For instance, a parent that was taught something different as a student which has now evolved.  Or, what about a teacher thast prefers a certain organization or style of writing that is not necessarily considered "good" writing.

[ETHAN HOSTA]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

Please post your answers to the following questions after the conclusion of SSR in today's class.

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

  I most related to the piece of advice about choosing meaningful words, because I think I use words like "relationships, for instance" etc. too much.  I think the piece about choosing more controversial or unconventional arguments was the most useful, because it can be very easily applied to make writing a little bit more interesting.  I could probably boost my SAT score knowing that as well, which helps me think of the tip as applicable

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay.

He seems pretty salty after having to grade so many crappy essays, and understandably so.  I would get pretty sick of reading similar low quality essays so many times too.  While he was cynical, his criticisms were witty, sharp and constructive.  He wrote a good piece of writing that is both interesting and educational, which gave some contrast to the bad essay samples he threw in there.

3) The author describes several bad habits of student writers. Did you see any truth in his observations? How do students develop these habits?

I have some of these bad habits, meaning there must be some truth to what he's saying.  We develop these traits because we start writing when we aren't very smart, and some of the stupid stays with us.  Also, we are taught to write using a rigid conventional formula, and our teachers often fail to look at the mistakes we're making.  Sometimes, our teachers were taught the same way and actually encourage bad writing, similar to the author's descriptions.

[AARON YRIZARRY-MEDINA]

1) One piece of advice that I could most easily relate to is cutting out unnecessary padding. This is also probably one of the ones I found most useful. This is because when I write and am given a specific amount of words or pages I need to write, I sort of panic. I think how am I going to reach that goal. So then I take an essay that is really only about 200 words of content, and BS it into a 500 word essay. Reading this made me see that it is about having more content and finding more things to talk about rather than just making the limit you have.

2) I would say the tone of the essay is very blunt. The author is not trying to sugar coat anything, rather the author is trying to get a point across. I think it is evidenced when the author says, "if you are content with a 'D' this is as good a way as any." The author is just trying to help people with their writing and telling it as it is so people will change how they have been sort of taught.

3) I saw a good amount of truth in what the author was saying. I think that students have a lot of these tendencies when they write. I do not think all the blame can be put on the students though. I believe a good portion of it comes from middle school and grade school teachers. One specific example is that when you are younger, you are told to lengthen your sentences. Teachers would always say to improve on short sentences and rewrite them with fluff to sound longer and more sophisticated. This contradicts exactly with what the author of this essay is trying to say.

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

[ANNA HELFRICH]

1) One of my biggest problems when it comes to writing is definitely stating the obvious. When I have to write an essay on a question, my first thought would be to start of my essay just simply answering the question. I know this is a bad habit, but I often can't help it. I found that the section of "Take the less usual side" was most helpful to me and this problem I'll have when writing. The section helped me see different ways to think about an essay, instead of just directly answering a question.

2) The author employs a very helpful tone to the essay. By reading it, you can tell that he wants you to do better with writing essays and he has a lot of good advice that he wants to convey. Also, he has a humorous and sarcastic tone to his writing, which is good because it makes the writing interesting to read. His helpful and humorous tone are really effective throughout his essay.

3) I definitely see a lot of truth in the authors observations. I personally developed too many of those bad habits and I know I'm not alone. I think students develop these bad habits through school. Growing up, the way we learned how to write an essay is in a five paragraph format where everything needs to be heavily explained to be clear, and the whole thing end up sounding dry. It becomes hard for students to develop a good writing style because all teachers wanted them to do was follow the cookie-cutter pattern. Also, once they develop these habits it can be hard to overcome them.

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

[JULIA RINGEL]

1. The piece of advice I related to the most was trying to argue the less popular side. When ever we would write essays before teachers would tell us to write about whatever idea had the most positive arguments. Instead of arguing our real opinions, everyone would just make generic points and write about the same thing because it seemed easier. This advice seemed like the most useful especially that we're writing our college essays because there are 5 or 6 essay prompts that hundreds of thousands of students are answering on their applications. In order to stand out and make a college notice you, you have to make a different argument that makes you stand out and differentiates you from thousands of other applicants. 

2. The overall tone is sarcastic but helpful because the author gives so many bad examples and tells the reader exactly what not to do in a paper. All of the points he brings up are common mistakes that most students seem to make while they write essays. The author uses humor to point out what these mistakes are and how they make the essay worse but then he is helpful and gives tips about how to fix these problems. 

3. Pretty much all of the errors he brought up are used by students in their writing. Students fall into these bad habits especially when they have a time limit or a word limit because there are more instructions. All these bad habits come back from elementary and middle school when we first learned about the 5 paragraph essay. Ever since then almost every single teacher has supported this idea and never really taught any new ways of writing essays. Even though these bad habits start out when we are younger in elementary and middle school, schools continue to support them as we go through high school. 

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

[LISA BROWN]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

Please post your answers to the following questions after the conclusion of SSR in today's class.

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

 

I related to the advice about not being abstract. I tend to talk in vague terms instead of giving examples or going into the particulars. It is something I constantly need to remember as I revise my essays and try to prove my point. At other times, I tend to use the same, colorless words over and over again. I need to use words that are colorful, such as: blistering, sultry, muggy, suffocating, steamy, and wilting instead of hot.  Also, I need to use more original phrases, instead of clichés.  Useful advice is to take the less used side, because I usually take the side which everyone else takes.

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay.

 

The author employs a tone that has humor and is not that formal. The examples he uses are very particular, yet they have some humor in them. For example, he writes, “but most modern readers would say, “Good grief,” and turn on the television” (Roberts). He doesn't just say that they don’t like it; he inserts funny dialogue to make it memorable. Although there is humor and informality, the essay is very informative. 

3) The author describes several bad habits of student writers. Did you see any truth in his observations? How do students develop these habits?

 

I did see truth in his observations. Many of the described instances occur in student’s writing. For example, he writes, “Thus four words have been turned into forty, and not an iota of content has been added” (Roberts). Many students will try to reach the minimum by just extending sentences and using the most words as possible. That will make the writing bad and just sound childish by saying what you could in five words, in twenty. Students develop these habits through school and being taught different ways to write. Word minimums definitely contribute to the mistakes of padding, pat expressions and not calling a fool a fool.  For example, I have seen that in history that teachers ask for papers that are very direct and with no fluff. But, in English I have seen that teachers ask for papers with fluff and that are ‘flowery.’ So, students can become confused about which way they should write. 

 

[VINCENT VASTANO]

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

Please post your answers to the following questions after the conclusion of SSR in today's class.

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

 

The piece of advice that I was able to relate to was to avoid all of the obvious content when writing an essay. He wrote that everyone that tries to just write an essay to get it done will focus all of their essay on any obvious points. This is because they will put very little to no research into the topic assigned and will end up writing the same essay as half the class wrote. For example, his example essay on college football said it was commercial and it took away from the intellect of the university and made it seem like a circus. This is an obvious point that even if you don't agree with, anyone will use that against you. Roberts showed how it is better to use more personal examples because they will create a bias or a voice in your writing that is extremely difficult to replicate and therefore will eliminate most obvious content. I found that slipping out of abstraction to be the best advice. Most of the other points he said were mostly self-explanatory, but this is different. Roberts shows how you can translate from generalities to realistic example to give your essay a voice and reduce any cliches in it.

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay.

 
  Roberts tone in this essay was both sarcastic and comedic. He used many jokes and funny exaagerations and observations to get his points across to the audience. He also can relate to someone who would be seeking advice to write an essay and needs to learn how to write an essay and get a better grade on it. His way of describing the essay on abolishing college football shows exactly how your average high school student might write an essay just to get it done with. He then gives advice that is enjoyable to read and very easy to understand so the audience is able to incorporate his advice into their own writing.

3) The author describes several bad habits of student writers. Did you see any truth in his observations? How do students develop these habits?

 I can see truth in his observations because I have written this way before in the past. If i wanted to get an essay over with, i would most likely do exactly the opposite of what Roberts said to do. However, I could usually get away with it and still be able to pull out a decent grade on the essay, not the D that he describes. Students will develop these habits as the get lazy and apathetic about writing and they will just churn out an essay just so they don't get a zero on the assignment.

[NOLAN DEVOE]

Nolan DeVoe

1) Which piece or pieces of advice did you most relate to? Which did you find the most useful? Why?

 The pieces of advice I can mostly relate to were the "Slip out of Abstraction" and "Get rid of obvious padding". I could relate to the those two pieces the best because I very well know that I do those; padding was a bad habit of mine, but I got a lot better with it. I used to just keep using phrases like "I believe" and "I think" to add to a paper but I do not do that anymore because I know the audience knows my writing is what I believe, or else I would not write well. Abstraction is another big issue I still have, simply because I do not want to take the time to find specific examples for my topic. Let us say I am writing a synthesis paper about British Literature, the question is "How do the characters, setting, and actions develop the plot and impact the character?" Now I could very well go through each piece of literature and find quotes to compare and thread together a thoroughly good paper, but I just rather stick with the generalizations to give myself less work. 

    As for the one I found most useful, definitely would be to slip out of abstraction because I do need to get more specific and break the habit of being lazy. It can only benefit me if I get more specific. 

2) How would you describe the predominant tone that the author employs in this essay.

The author was very humorous and very informative. He chose to write in second person which was a good choice to me because it forced me to analyze my own writing as I read this essay. It was on a very personal level and it allowed me to relate better with my own writing.  

3) The author describes several bad habits of student writers. Did you see any truth in his observations? How do students develop these habits?

I find a lot of truth in the observations the author writes about. The author says "What with one thing and another, it's ten o'clock Sunday night before you get out the typewriter again." and I find a lot of truth that as youthful teenagers, we keep finding excuses for not doing the work which is the very beginning for developing those bad habits. I see on a personal level how these bad habits form, it's from growing exponentially uninterested in a topic and then sloth consumes me because I can not write about something I do not enjoy. I find that the bad habits are due to a lack of listening by the administration. As people, not just students, we do have a lot to do day-to-day and the rigorous essays that are given on an almost weekly basis fall into the "second priority pile", and then the night before the essays are due, we rush, we fluff, and then we get bad grades.  

[KYLE MALEK]

1) A problem that the author addressed in this essay that I have a lot of trouble with is the use of unnecessary words. In a lot of my essays, I will draw out sentences to much longer than they need to be. I would usually tell myself that these excess words are just more detail, but I realized that it is mostly to increase the length. His criticism of these excess words or fillers was very helpful to me because it opened my eyes to what I was doing in my own essays and will hopefully help me exclude them in the future.

2) The tone of this essay was very upfront and direct. The author wasn't trying to avoid certain topics or talk lightly about the matter. When he talked about his points, he talked about them as if they right without a doubt. But he didn't just say that he was right. He used a lot of examples of types of phrases or techniques that some people use in their writing that he sees as incorrect, problematic, or inefficient. These examples then made his argument a lot more effective because he was able to pinpoint people's problems and gave suggestions to solve them. They also gave him a lot more confidence about his point being right, which was shown through his tone in the piece.

3) I see a lot of truth in the authors observation about students writing. He explains a lot of things about my essays especially that I either didn't know were wrong or knew they were wrong, but didn't know how to fix them. My problem with padding my sentences was developed through the teaching of my elementary and middle school teachers. Many elementary school teachers tell you from a young age to make your sentences longer and more drawn out. In some cases, this is true, but in others, it's not. In some cases, you want to be more detailed, but in others, you want to be more direct and to the point.

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote:

[Julianne Ferraro]

1)      I related to the advice when he was talking about avoiding the obvious content and getting rid of unneeded padding. I found when he was talking about avoiding the obvious content most useful because if you are assigned a topic, the first thoughts that come to mind will be the ones everyone has. So when I start writing from now on I will try to stray from the easy ideas and format.

2)      I feel that the author implies a tone of being informing, yet humorous at the same time. It keeps the readers attention and he is not cocky or boring.

3)      Yes, the part where he talks about the obvious choices for an essay. For example, when he was telling the story about the class having to write an essay about college football and everyone got Ds because it was content-less and said thirty times already. I feel we develop these bad habits from the five-paragraph essay we learned when we were younger. We were given a topic, then had to come up with three supporting details and usually everyone had the same three supporting details. No one every picked the opposite side to argue, they always picked the side that they had more ideas for. Also, I usually see the use of “colorless words” a lot. Kids use them to take up space and just throw a word down on paper. 

On Tuesday, May 7, 2013 9:30:06 AM UTC-4, dvan...@hcrhs.org wrote: