Spiritual Retreat at Ramakrishna Math Ulsoor, Bangalore
Girish
From: Ramakrishna Math Ulsoor <rkmath...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:32 PM
Subject: Ramakrishna Math Ulsoor Message
Dear Devotees,
Math is conducting Spiritual Retreat on Sunday 29th May, 2011 as per the program given below. We are happy to inform you that Swami Parijnyeanandaji and Swami Bhitiharanandaji (of Ramakrishna Math, Hyderabad) & Swami Dharmavratananda
( Ramakrishna Math, Halasuru) have accepted to conduct the programme.
Yours in the Srvice
Swami Veetabhayananda
Adhyaksha
Programme
Morning
Registration 8:30
Bhajans 9:00
by Swami Bhitiharanandaji
Tea Break 10:30
Discourse : “Fixing the Mind on God” 11.00 À
By Swami Parijneyanandaji
Discourse :
By Swami Dharmavratanandaji 11.45
Adhyatmika Jivenada kilikai-sadhu sanga
Sri Ramakrishna Ashtottara Archana 12:30
Mahamangalarati 12:45
Prasada Distribution 1.00
PHANI KRISHNA
I am very surprised to see the Program"Sri Ramakrishna Ashtottara Archana"
Vivekananda clearly said Image worship is the lowest worship.
He always motivated people to grow out of fences of image worship.
Do not you know the song of him "Break the idols"
I hope you read the complete works of him.
Of course he used to do Kali worship personally but Kali to him is "Death".
Even Rama krishna also finally cut "Kali".
For his nirvikalpa samadhi the single thought Kali was obstacle.
After 100 years of Vivekananda, i hope better to conduct retreats on meditation,
self enquiry etc...rather than puja etc conducted at Temples.
Even some of the Ramakrishna maths seem to me just like Temples.
Swamis are doing homas , pujas etc like purohits.
I hope you are moving to dvaita from advaita.
Did Vivekananda expect the same from you ?
Now people are more educated .
So, i request you to conduct some meaningful retreats.
Also the one who gives the lecture "Fixing the mind on GOD " should know
what GOD is . Did he realize GOD ?.
My intention is not to hurt you or anybody but after seeing the R.K.Maths like
Temples, i wanted to point out.
krishna
--
SWADHYAYA PRAVACHANABHYAM NA PRAMADITAVYAM
{Be not negligent about the study and exposition of scriptures. - Taittriya Upanishad}
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Devotees of Holy Trio" group.
To post to this group, send email to holy_t...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to holy_trinity...@googlegroups.com
V V R S
Rajashekar.
Sankhadip Das
Swami Tatparananda
SO-CALLED CONTRADICTIONS IN SWAMI
VIVEKANANDAJS TEACHINGS
SWAMI SUDDHANANDA
[Swami Suddhananda" a disciple of SwamiJi, joined the Order soon after SwamiJi’ s return from the West (in 1897). He was not only loved by Swamiji but had faith in his capacity to work out his ideas, and therefore Swamiji entrusted him with works of utmost importance. Swami Suddhananda lived with Swamiji for a long time; and ilnbibed Swamiji's message and ideas; as such his understanding of them IS of great value for us today.. He was the second General Secretary of the Ramakrishna Math and Mission and its fifth President. This article is reproduced from Prabuddha Bharata January, 1931. - 'f Ed.]
In the pregnant words with which Swamiji begins his book, Raja- Yoga, breathing a most catholic and all-embracing spirit, the Swami Vivekananda has put forth his ideas about the methods of individual spiritual culture for all mankind. These sentences came out spontaneously in course of the explanation of an aphorism of Patanjali, incorporated in his monumental work on Raja-Yoga, and they apparently appealed so much to the Swamiji himself that he placed them as the motto of his book called Raja-Yoga. His four books on the four Yogas, viz., Jnana-Yoga, Raja-Yoga, Karma-Yoga and Bhakti-Yoga, into which he wanted to roughly classify the different methods of spiritual culture, are but the amplification of the above sentences, giving emphasis to each, when that was dealt separately.
This is, in short, what may be termed Swamiji's scheme of individual salvation; but besides the above four books many epistles of Swamiji, some at least of which he never intended for publication, and many interviews with different individuals have been published and recorded, as also many public lectures addressed to vast gatherings, specially of his own country-men, in which we find here and there instructions for individual spiritual culture, but mainly his ideas of collective advancement, social uplift, national regeneration and so forth. The latter class of books are much more widely read by the general public, and through that reading they form an estimate of what Swamiji wanted for the world in general,
and for his country in particular. Especially his idea of the Seva of Narayana in different human forms, has caught the imagination of his countrymen and it is the mainspring of many charitable and educational organizations under the auspices of the Ramakrishna Mission and of other bodies. Many of the suggestions put forth in the above-mentioned writings have not as yet been attempted to be translated into action by any individual or organization, though we hope, as time rolls on , attention will be drawn also to those aspects of Swamij's teachings and big institutions will spring forth from them. The mainspring has given rise to innumerable diversified currents and sometimes perhaps it is difficult to recognize their original source. It is difficult, for instance, for many to find out, whether Swamiji was a champion of orthodoxy or social reform; whether he was a staunch advocate of political freedom whether he was a nationalist or an internationalist; whether he was an advocate of the caste system or against it ; whether he was a supporter of vegetarianism or meat-eat-ing ; whether he advised meditation in solitude or work in the bustle of society as the best method of realizing God; whether he favoured organization, or wanted individual spiritual culture in preference to any organization, etc., etc. As one traverses the pages of the big seven (now 9 volumes) volumes of his works, one is rather apt to be puzzled.
We, who had the good fortune to be in close touch with Swamiji, from 1897, the date of his triumphant entry into Calcutta, his birth...place, after his spiritual conquest in the West, to 1902, the date of the giving up of his physical frame, had also occasions to be puzzled by his apparently contradictory teachings, but Swamiji himself supplied us with the key to his proper understanding. There were also many who did not even hesitate to affirm that his teachings were against those of his revered Master" Bhagavan Sri Ramakrishna P aramahansa.
I will quote here several utterances of Swamiji and describe several incidents from his life, which will probably help the reader to find out the Inastcr-key to all the apparently contradictory teachings of the great Swami. The one conclusion to which I have arrived regarding them is that they are all of them true under different circumstances, as being addressed to different individuals or groups of individuals; their difference lies only in emphasis laid on particular occasions on particular ideas or courses of action. I will try to record the different incidents, not in any systematic order, but as they come to my mind. –
It was the month of May of 1897. I had joined the Alambazar Math only a few days before. Swamiji had just returned from Darjeeling where he had gone with some of his Gurubhais and Madrasi disciples. In the monastery then lived only three or four senior Swamis his Gurubhais, and about a dozen newly initiated junior Swamis and Brahmacharins. Up to that time there was no hard and fast rule of discipline in the Math. His Gurubhais were perfectly free and they practised sadhana individually or jointly as the spirit prompted them. But now some new elements were admitted and one of the junior Swamis, an old person, suggested to Swaniji that it would be good if he framed some rules and regulations for the training and discipline of the new-comers, before he departed for AIlnora. Swamiji at once consented and calling all the members to the parlour of the monastery dictated a few rules as to meditation, study, work, physical exercise, etc. But before he dictated those rules, he prefaced them with a short lecture to the following effect :
'Our aim is to go beyond all laws - beyond all rules and regulations. That is the idea specially of a Sannyasin. Still I remember a pregnant saying of our Master: " If you are pricked by a thorn, it is advised
that another thorn should be secured with which you will try to extricate the former. But as soon as it has been done, there is no necessity to keep the thorn you have procured. You can throwaway both as
you have got rid of the trouble." Similar is the scope and necessity of rules and regulations. You have to go beyond all laws "'" · beyond all rules and regulations. You are Atman ever free, blessed and eternal;
you are to live a spontaneous lite, urged by the perfect freedom and the purity of spirit. But, my children, unfortunately You are at present under some bad laws bad rules and regulations of your life; you are under the sway of some bad habits. In order to extricate yourself from your evil nature - this thorn of bad laws let there be framed some good laws for the present; but always remember that you are ultimately to go beyond them both.'
A few months after, about the end of 1897, Swamiji was travel1ing in Rajputana with a few of his Sannyasi and Brahmachari disciples. With the exception of one or two, none had any objection to meat-eating. We were the guests of the Raja of Khetri (about 90 miles fronm Jeypore) at his Jeypore house. The Raja who was then at Khetri had made all arrangements for Swamiji and his disciples through his men. Of course, meat diet was arranged for Swamiji himself. When the Raja's men asked Swamiji as to what kind of food was to be arranged for his disciples, he at once replied that they were a11 vegetarians. So all the disciples were obliged to take vegetarian diet while at Jeypore. One of the Brahmacharins, who was older than the others, and being fortunate enough to see Sri Ramakrishna himself and being acquainted with his direct disciples for a long time used to take liberties with Swamiji, who, however, instead of being offended thereby rather enjoyed them playfully, requested Swamiji that he be pleased to allow them meat diet at least twice a week. Swamiji was inexorable and did not change the routine. He, however, occasionally called that Brahmacharin and also another to partake of his Pra-
sad consisting of meat. At Khetri the rule was relaxed. But one Brahmacharin who was a vegetarian for a long time past, never broke his vow of not taking meat, and Swamiji one day praised him with the remark that if he could stick to that VOW for twelve years continually he would become perfect a Siddha.
It was more than a yearl since Swamiji had returned from the west for the first time. It was the beginning of the year 1898. The monastery had been removed from Alambazar to Belur and was situated at the commodious rent house belonging then to the late Babu Nilambar Mukherji of Kashmir fame The present site of the permanent monastery had just been purchased. After the return of Swamiji
from the West, the life of the monastery had undergone some revolutionary changes. New ideas had been introduced, and new sorts of activities had been initiated as the outcome of Swamiji's Western experience. The old ideas of Pujas and festivals were, as it were, in the melting pot.
It was the Shivaratri day dedicated to fast and the worship of Shiva and vigil in the night. In the olden days, the monastic disciples 'Of Sri Ran1akrishna observed this occasion with special Pujas, music and enthusiastic Sankirtan throughout the whole day and night. But this year none neither the old Swamis nor the new Brahmachari and Sannyasi disciples .. had fasted, and everyone had come to partake of Prasad at the call of bell. A young Brahmin Brahmacharin was a little late. In the mean- time Swamiji suddenly remembered that this was the holy Shivaratri day and noticed also that none had fasted. He had begun to talk about the matter, when the above mentioned Brahmacharin appeared there and was going to sit with the others to partake prasad but Swamiji intervened and asked, , Are you accustomed to fast my child?' 'Yes, holy Swami,'replied he. 'Then, observe Shivaratri. Of course, you need not fast totally:! you may partake of some fruit Prasad, if there is any and you need not also keep vigil for the whole night. You may partake of your meals after midnight, when you have finished the first two Pujas (one at 9 p.lll. and the other at 12 p.m.).' The Brahmacharin obeyed his Master's directions and was assisted only by another Brahmacharin who though himself unable to fast on account of poor health, helped him in the Puja and kept the vigil up to midnight
A young man joined the monastery and lived with Swamiji for a considerable period at the newly constructed Belur Math. His devotional side was then not much developed. He happened to halt at Benares for a few days on his journey further up. It was the year 1900. The Benares Home of Service was then just started by a few ardent young men who at that time read much of Swamiji’s teachings but did not came into intimate personal contact with him. 'They were very much impressed by Swamiji's exhortations about the service of poor 'Narayanas' and started the institution which was then known a' 'Poor Men's Relief Association' with the help of a few kind friends. They all mutually asked the new comer as to Swamiji's real views about the respective merits of the different paths of realization when the latter gave out the following:
'Swamiji's real views are that image-worship and such other things are absolutely useless and Jiva-seva is the only method of attaining to the highest.' Most of them were very much pleased as it tallied perfectly with their activities at that time. One of them, however, who was of a devotional and rather vacillating temperament, was not perfectly satisfied; he put the same question to another monk, who happened to be at Benares on a short visit sometime after the other had con1e, and who had lived a longer period with Swamiji and was of a rather liberal outlook having known varying forms of religious practices such as Yoga, Bhakti, etc. The monk answered l 'I have found Swamiji advocating different kinds of religious practices for different natures such as Yoga, Jiiana, Bhakti and Karma.' At this the Benares workers divulged to the new Swami what the other represented as the Swamiji's views. Some time after, both these Swamis who represented Swamiji's views to the Benares boys were sitting in a question class held at the Belur Math with Swamiji himself as the teacher to solve the doubts of his disciples. Swamiji was expressing himself in a liberal strain, saying that all paths whetlier Yoga, Bhakti, Jnana or Karma, led to the same goal. The Swami with the liberal outlook remembered the Benares incident and being encouraged by Swamiji's utterances thought of administering a rebuke by Swamiji himself to the other Swami, who, he thought, totally misrepresented his real views to the Benares boys. He said to Swamiji, , Swamiji, this Swami has told the Benares workers that you hold the view that image-worship and such other things are absolutely useless and that it is Jiva-Seva alone which leads to the highest goal.' He was sure that Swamiji would reproach the other Swami with mis-representing his views, but he was totally disappointed. Swamiji did not directly answer him; he rather said aside, 'At present one must, of course, give stress on Karma,' and did not say anything further on the matter.
Swamiji, some of his Gurubhais and some newly initiated Sannyasins and Brahmacharins were sitting in the visitor's room in the Belur Math. One of his Gurubhais asked Swamiji : 'Swamiji, your sayings and teachings contain so many apparently contradictory things that these youngmen are often at a loss to understand what to do or what not to do.' Swamiji, not replying directly to his Gurubhai, said to the disciples present : ' You see, my children, I am a religious preacher. So I have to say different things to different persons according as the occasion arises.. Why should you feel yourself obliged to act according to. all my different instructions? Do you not see, my Gurubhais do not always follow me, though I tell them many things? Whenever anyone of you feel puzzled as to how to act on a particular occasion or need guidance in your personal spiritual culture, come to me in private and ask my opinion and advice.'
A short time before Swamiji's passing away, he received a letter from a young Swami, who was then away from the Math practising tapasya, that he had been written by the head of a certain centre of the Order to the effect that Swamiji had ordered him to join that centre immediately as a worker.. But as he had an ardent desire to visit Amarnath in Kashmir he wanted permission for that. If Swamiji, however, so desired, he was quite ready to obey him and join the centre immediately as ordered. Swamiji at once instructed a member of the Math to write to him as well as the head of the centre referred to. The Swami, who had desired to visit Amarnath, was told that Swamiji never ordered anyone to do any work, so he might visit Amarnath and also make pilgrimage to any other holy place he liked; and afterwards if he felt so inclined he might go to the centre as a worker. And the head of the centre was informed that he had totally misrepresented Swamiji by using his name in the matter and writing to the young Swami that he was ordered to join the centre immediately.. The Swami in question, visiting Amarnath as also some other holy places, joined that centre shortly after as a worker and served it very usefully for about four years.
Once. when the monastery was situated at the Nilambar Mukherji's garden house, Swamiji was exhorting the young Swamis and Brahmacharins thus: 'Throwaway all books and scriptures. What benefit can accrue to you from them regarding your spiritual life? Live an intense life of sadhana so that you may realize God even in this life. Those of you who are inclined to Jnanam (discrimination), let them try to discriminate between the real and the unreal according to the teachings of the Vedanta let them be engaged in Vichara (discrimination) day and night let them not take part in Puja, Bhajan or Kirtan. Let also those inclined towards bhakti not mix at all with these would-be jnanis (discriminators) , but let them perform Bhajan, Kirtan and have all the paraphernalia of worship day and night. Let some of you
make a hundred clay images of Shiva, and going to the side of the Ganges with a towel on the head as a protection against the heat of the sun, worship them the whole day. In this way, try to develop your respective spiritual nature as quickly as possible by special methods according to the temperament of each individual and waste no more time, my children.'
One young Brahmacharin was so much impressed by these daily exhortations that he felt strongly inclined to shortly leave the monastery and go to some lonely place, such as the Himalayas, for practising sadhana, as he conidered the monastery too crowded a place for acting according to Swamiji's advice. He secured also Swamiji's permission and blessings to go away from the monastery. Previous to his departure, however, he had to make Some preparation; he had to finish some important work at the Math. Which Swamiji had entrusted to him. But at times, he would feel strongly inclined to leave the work unfinished and flyaway, though by the sheer force of will he controlled himself and wanted to finish the work as soon as possible. This and some other things regarding arrangements about his departure took some time. In the meanwhile there was a panic at Calcutta on account of the bubonic plague and the strict measures taken by the Government to prevent its spread. Swamiji who was on a short trip to Darjeeling for his health, hastened to the monastery to start plague relief work. He wrote a short Bengali pamphlet and arranged for its distribution. It contained appeals to the citizens of Calcutta asking them not to be carried away by panic, but to have faith in God, to be strict in observing hygienic rules and to seek any help from the Math whenever necessary. Swamiji even thought and talked of selling the newly purchased site of the monastery, if necessary, to finance any practical measure for combating the Scourge. Arrangements were made to cleanse some bustees of Calcutta with the help of volunteers recruited from amongst the monastic disciples. Swami Trigunatita, a Gurubhai of Swamiji, was enlisting volunteers for the plague relief. One day he told the Brahmacharin who had secured Swamiji's permission for Tapasya that he had also been chosen as one of the volunteers and Swamiji himself had approved of the selection. The young Brahmacharin waS greatly taken aback by the announcement. He told Swami Trigunatita that since Swamiji had ordered like that he must obey, but his mind was so much fixed upon Tapasya that he felt inclined to pray that the plague relief work Inight come at once to him, so that after finishing it as soon as possible, he would be free to go out for Tapasya_ At this Swami Trigunatita consulted Swamiji and gave out that Swamiji had exempted him from the plague relief service.
Another incident happening a little earlier is worth mentioning. It occurred towards the end of 1897. After his brilliant lectures on Vedanta at Lahore, Swamiji had come to Dehra Dun with some of his Gurubhais and monastic discip1es. A garden house had been rented for him. The Mayavati Ashrama in
the Himalayas had not been then started. Swamiji was trying to find a suitable place in the hills to found an Ashrama with the financial help of Captain and Mrs. Sevier. A young boy servant had been engaged on a small pay to cleanse the utensils and do other domestic works. After about eight or ten days we moved to Saharanpur, No suitable place was found near Dehra Dun to start an Ashrama. At that time there was no railway line up to Dehra Dun. The only means of transport from Saharanpur to Debra Dun, a distance of 40 miles, was tonga service.. Some four of us came beforehand to Saharanpur on foot. When some hours ]ater Swamiji with the remaining party reached Saharanpur, we found to our astonishment that the boy..servant had accompanied him. As soon as he reached Saharanpur, he told us, 'Don't call the boy a Nokar (servant) but cal] him a Brahmacharin and behave with him as such.' To the local gentlemen assembled he said, 'I went to Dehra Dun in search of a suitable p]ace for all Ashrama and I have failed in my special object of visit there. But the Mother has given me this boy so that I may train him and make of him a real man.' At Delhi where we soon removed, the boy who was dirty in the extreme was washed and cleaned by a Sannyasi disciple of Swamiji with his own hands with soap and hot water. He was supplied with decent clothes purchased from Delhi bazar, was given the sacred thread and Gayatri (as the boy gave out that he belonged to Kshatriya caste) through a Brahmin Brahmachari disciple of Swamiji; and a Hindi primer was purchased and put into his hands. From Delhi the boy accompanied us to Alwar, Jeypore and Khetri and was treated in all respects as equal to any of our party. But all this kindness and attention of Swamiji was of no avail. We found to our regret that his
past samskaras prevailed to an extraordinary degree. He could himself never forget that he was a mere servant boy and scarcely understood the significance of the sacred thread. All these however, Swamiji overlooked 'probably , in the hope that gradually the influence of better environments would prevail over his old samskaras. But at Khetri when he told a deliberate lie to Swamiji, he could not tolerate it any longer. He instructed us as soon as we came back to Delhi to send him back to his native place of Kashmir. And it was done.
Very little did I hear personally about politics from Swamij’s own lips except a few stray remarks. About the scope and significance of politics for India, one day I heard Swamiji say, 'Our idea of politics is this: Under the present social and political conditions of India, it has been possible for the advent of on]y one Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. We shall have to adjust our social and political environments in such a way, that it will be possible for many such Ramakrishna Paramahamsas to arise from the soil of India.' At another time Swamiji remarked, 'The political bondage of India has suppressed many would-be geniuses and have condemned them to mediocrity. If India were politically free, many great personages and geniuses would have sprung up from the soil like mushrooms.' He laughed at the optimism of the politicians of the day, who apparently believed that the British had conle to India with the most altruistic object of ameliorating its conditions, and so their only programme was the passing of some pious resolutions and petitioning the Government to do this or that without even thinking of any constructive work for the people and by the people. independent of Government aid. He said, 'These simple politicians how can they persuade themselves to believe in a preposterous proposition which is altogether against human nature? However noble the professions of an alien Government may be, can a man of common sense believe that a foreign Government can be carried on with only altruistic principles as its motive? If we want to be free, we must depend on ourselves and not on the goodwill of the Governlnel1t.' And Swamiji was ready to undergo the greatest hardships, for the good of his country. At the end of the year 1897, Swamiji was living at Srijut Nagendra Nath Gupta's house at Lahore, who, was then the editor of the Lahore Tribune. Only myself had the good fortune to live with Swamiji under the same roof. The other disciples lived in another house. There was a large settlement of Benga1ees who lived at Meean Meerat, a short distance from Lahore town, in order to earn their livelihood by serving in various offices. Swamiji was one day invited there with his disciples and companions. Nagen Babu also accompanied us. On the way back from Meean Meerat to Lahore, Swamiji, Nagen Babu and myself came in a carriage. Swamiji was talking with Nagen Babu who, I believe, was his class-friend, on various topics, almost all of which has totally escaped my memory. One thing, however, I distinctly remember and it is this. In the course of the conversation, I heard Swamiji remark, If I am arrested by the Government, I know that India will be n1uch benefited thereby.' As I go on writing, a thousand reminiscences come rushing to my memory.
The incidents narrated above seem very insignificant in themselves, but judging them at their true perspective they seem to me to throw a great flood of light on the real significance of Swamiji's teachings. A man is the servant of his nature and he is always prompted to act according to that. A man perhaps comes across a work of Swamiji which appeats to him very much, and he goes on acting according to its teachings as understood by him at that time. He goes on with his career. New experiences come, and he then perhaps reads a new meaning in the very teachings which he understood at the beginning otherwise. Reader, if you have patiently gone through all the seven big volumes of Swamiji's writings, have read his Life, and at the same time if you have also studied his revered Master, and after all that if you still feel puzzled as to the path you should travel, I will advise you to go to a Cornet of your room and pray earnestly for light and I am sure it will be vouchsafed unto you. Remember Sri Ramakrishna's words & Make your thought and speech one do earnestly whatever you feel sincerely in your heart. Even though you pursue a wrong path, if you are sincere, the Lord Himself will help you to find out the right direction. You want to visit Jagannath but you do not know the way. You have in your anxiety started towards the North when you should have gone
to the South. But on your way you are asking everyone who comes across you to show you the proper way. By this process you are sure to find at last someone who will show you the way and you will be blessed at long last with the holy vision of Jagannath the Lord of the Universe.'
Upon us depends whether the name Hindu will stand for everything that is glorious, everything that is spiritual, or whether it will remain a name of opprobrium, one designating the downtrodden, the worthless, the heathen. If at present the word Hindu means anything bad, never mind; by our action let us be ready to show that this is the highe.st word that any language can invent. It has been one of the principles of my life not to be ashamed of my own ancestors. I am one of the proudest men ever born, but let me tell you frank1y, it is not for myself, but on account of my ancestry.
SWAMI VNEKANANDA
sastry
I too have felt the same after practising detailed
worship for a long time. From your message it is understood
that I am on the right track.
Sastry K V B
Girish
An old woman devotee told me one day, "There is no charm in the Math or other such places these days."
I reported it to the Mother who sat up startled and said,
"If there is any true religion, it can be found only here and in the Math."
The Gospel of The Holy Mother - Section II (22) -(RECORDED BY RECORDED BY AN ANONYMOUS LADY DEVOTEE): Page 328
PHANI KRISHNA
I read complete works of Vivekananda ,Ramana Maharshi and many books of Jiddu
Krishna murthi. From that i need to share some things .
What is the need to remember GOD ?
You might have stored some concepts as GOD and again trying to recollect them.
For remembering something we first should know what GOD or TRUTH is .
So, Better to enquire about GOD or TRUTH or OURSELVES .
I am not talking about Right or Wrong of doing Image worship.
Already temples are there for image worship.
Many people have been doing it.
In "Devikalottaram Jnana Vichara Patalam" ,Eeswara instucts Parvathi that
Truth can not be found by Rituals ,Puja etc...
Even Aadi Sankara's ParaPuja says the same.
Vivekananda ,Ramana Maharshi and Jiddu Krishna muthi said it is lowest and even sometimes criticized.
Read how Ramana Maharshi criticizes plucking flowers for worship :---
http://prashantaboutindia.blogspot.com/2009/12/ramana-maharshi-does-not-encourage.html
My concern is about Rama Krishna Maths and ADVAITA and Vivekananda's Teachings.
Now a days , I feel Rama Krishna Maths look like Temples.
In Temples Purohits will be performing rituals and in Maths some Swamis.
In Temples Venakateswara , Vinayaka etc worshipped and in Maths Rama krishna or Vivekanada or Sarada devi.
Now a days even many laminations of Vinayaka etc are also appearing in some R.K.MATHS.
In temples you can get CDs of Stotras prsising GOD and asking this and that..
In Rama Krishna Math also you can get CDs of that kind.
We rarely find the CDs of Songs composed by Vivekananda.
Except Aaratrikam ,Achandala songs , We never find any other compositions
of Vivekananda CDs out of his Excellent n number of compositions.
Vivekananda established Advaita Ashram in Mayavathi.There, he did not allow even the
worship of Ramakrishna.If Rama Krishna Math propogated Advaita properly , atleast
few of our Rama krishna Maths might have changed like that of Mayavathi.
But the reverse is happening in our Rama krishna maths it seems.
As you know many people got benefited by image worships etc,
I also know n number of people who never did any image worship and are
passionately searching for Reality inspired by Vivekananda.
I know even many people who had supreme devotion without worshiping images.
My only concern is, even after about 100 years after Vivekananda,Rama Krishna
Math is not at the standards of ADVAITA according to me as I explained.
I do not want to hurt anybody.
I shared what I felt.
Its all my personal perception.
phani krishna
--
Sankhadip Das
Dear Phani Ji
bishnu...@tatamotors.com
I agree….very strongly.
From: holy_t...@googlegroups.com [mailto:holy_t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sankhadip Das
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 11:55
AM
To: holy_t...@googlegroups.com
--
SWADHYAYA PRAVACHANABHYAM NA PRAMADITAVYAM
{Be not negligent about the study and exposition of scriptures. - Taittriya
Upanishad}
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Devotees of Holy Trio" group.
To post to this group, send email to holy_t...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
holy_trinity...@googlegroups.com
******************************************************************************************************************************************************** "This e-Mail may contain proprietary and confidential information and is sentfor the intended recipient(s) only. If, by an addressing or transmission error,this mail has been misdirected to you, you are requested to delete this mailimmediately. You are also hereby notified that any use, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this e-mail message,contents or its attachment(s) other than by its intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily of the organization. Before opening attachment(s), please scan for viruses." ********************************************************************************************************************************************************
PHANI KRISHNA
I am not watching the things telescopically.
Who told you that RKM is promoting image worship by selling photo of deities etc ?
Please Do not assume the things.
What I said was i did not get CDs containing compositions of Vivekananda
except Aarathi and 2 other songs.
I even went to CHENNAI MATH ,HYDERABAD MATH,BELUR MATH but did not get.
But, hundreds of songs composed by other people are available there.
I puchased Veervani cassette and converted some of the Vivekananda's composotions
there to CD.
In ENGLISH and SANSKRIT , Vivekananda composed many songs that we can find
in "IN SEARCH OF GOD " .I gave even suggestions to the heads of the Maths to
make atleast 1 CD which contains the compositions of Vivekeanda long back.
But nobody did.
I know Ranganadhanada Swami.
I had a talk and photograph with him long back.
I was initiated by Ranganadhanada Swami at Hyderabad
I know all activities mentioned by you.
I even attended Meditation classes there.
I even donated some amount to RK Mission Belur Math towards orphans and know
the difference between Math and Mission.
I also appreciate the service aspects of Rama Krishna Math.
Then let us come to Image Worship.
IMAGE WORSHIP
Please note that i am not criticizing Image worship.
I understood from Aadi Sankara ,Vivekananda ,Ramana Maharshi and Jiddu Krishna Murthi that it is Lowest. I have passion towards Truth.
So I myself completely read complete works of
Vivekananda ,Complete works of Ramana Mahrshi and may other books of
Aadi Sankara and Jiddu Krishna MURTHI.
Ramana Maharshi used to say that as long as one worships his own body,
he is image worshiper.
You read the following books of Ramana Maharshi yourselves
"BE AS YOU ARE "
"THE PATH OF SRI RAMANA BY SADHU OM"
"TALKS WITH RAMANA MAHARSHI"
"THE TEACHINGS OF RAMANA IN HIS OWN WORDS"
"DAY BY DAY WITH.."
"LETTERS FROM RAMANA ASHRAMAM BY SURI NAGAMMA"
"UNFORGETABLE MEMORIES BY KANAKAMMA"
"FORTY VERSES ON REALITY"
"UPADESA SARAM" etc
and PARAPUJA OF AADI SANKARA
and DEVIKALOTTARAM JNANA VICHARA PATALAM
and complete works of Vivekananda especially "THE LIVING GOD" poem
and any book of JIDDU KRISHNA MURTHI .
After reading these books let us discuss the main topic .
Why some Maharaj is required to enquire about the applicability of Ramana
Maharshi's statement,evolution etc? if you are passioante you read yourself.
I am attaching some of the above books also.
If you feel that it is lowest let us discuss further.
The saints you mentioned are examples of SUPREME DEVOTION OR SARANAGATHI PATH.
They have LOVE towards the TRUTH or REALITY.
They had passion towards the TRUTH.
So Love and Passion towards the TRUTH are main things in them and not the detailed worship.
You suggested me to read the works of Swami Bhuteshananda, Swami Madhavananda, and Swami Veereswarananda (Swami itself is respect .so i removed 'ji').
I already read many books of vedanta and self realized persons.So ,i am not interested...
I have attached some books related to idol worship...
phani krishna
bishnu...@tatamotors.com
Dear Mr. Phani Krishnaji,
There is nothing wrong in Image worship . God is one but has manifested in different Roop . So for beginners of spiritual journey it is better to have a idol before him during worship .
But along the path ,when the devotee is advanced he does not require any idol to worship , He can worship & see him in every where .
Also I am no agree to Breaking the idols. They have some aura & spiritual power in it .
This are very sentimental ,emotional aspect .
I hope U will loosen your strong view against Idol worship
Regards
Bishnu Keida
From: holy_t...@googlegroups.com [mailto:holy_t...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PHANI KRISHNA
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:19
PM
To: holy_t...@googlegroups.com
******************************************************************************************************************************************************** "This e-Mail may contain proprietary and confidential information and is sentfor the intended recipient(s) only. If, by an addressing or transmission error,this mail has been misdirected to you, you are requested to delete this mailimmediately. You are also hereby notified that any use, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this e-mail message,contents or its attachment(s) other than by its intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. Any opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and not necessarily of the organization. Before opening attachment(s), please scan for viruses." ********************************************************************************************************************************************************
PHANI KRISHNA
You misunderstood me.
I am not saying that image worship is wrong.
I am saying that image worship is LOWEST as described by Sages.
I am saying that one should come out of image-worship and go to Meditation
or Self Enquiry or ....
But this is not happening even after 110 years of Vivekananda.
Man has made idols .No idol has produced a Man.
You are forgetting the spiritual power in you and attributing some power
to the inert idols.
Break the Ideals is not my song. it was composed by Vivekananda.
I have shared the views of sages Ramana Maharshi,Aadi sankara ,Vivekananda and
Jiddu Krishna Murthi and Scriptures like Devikalottaram.
These are sages and scriptures views .Not my own views to loose or win.
phani krishna
niks kapli
I don't think Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekanands considered idol worship to be the LOWEST. Both Thakur and Swamiji continued to worship idols and visited temples even after attaining the highest Brahma Jnana. In fact, they were not just Brahma Jnanis, they were Vijnanis.
From the first chapter of the Gospel:
<<<
MASTER: "Well, do you believe in God with form or without form?"
M., rather surprised, said to himself: "How can one believe in God without form when one believes in God with form? And if one believes in God without form, how can one believe that God has a form? Can these two contradictory ideas be true at the same time? Can a white liquid like milk be black?"
M: "Sir, I like to think of God as formless."
MASTER: "Very good. It is enough to have faith in either aspect. You believe in God without form; that is quite all right. But never for a moment think that this alone is true and all else false. Remember that God with form is just as true as God without form. But hold fast to your own conviction."
The assertion that both are equally true amazed M.; he had never learnt this from his books. Thus his ego received a third blow; but since it was not yet completely crushed, he came forward to argue with the Master a little more.
M: "Sir, suppose one believes in God with form. Certainly He is not the clay image!"
MASTER (interrupting): "But why clay? It is an image of Spirit."
M. could not quite understand the significance of this "image of Spirit". "But, sir," he said to the Master, "one should explain to those who worship the clay image that it is not God, and that, while worshipping it, they should have God in view and not the clay image. One should not worship clay."
MASTER (sharply): "That's the one hobby of you Calcutta people — giving lectures and bringing others to the light! Nobody ever stops to consider how to get the light himself. Who are you to teach others?
>>>
And as for Swamiji, in his Bhakti Yoga and other lectures, he has shown clearly how idol worship leads to the highest truth - not just as a lower form of worship - but as a form of worship which one can transcend at a very advanced stage only. Still, Bhaktas "continue to enjoy sugar", instead of "becoming sugar", and thus enjoy God in his form aspect.
It does not matter how many years have passed by since Thakur and Swamiji left their bodies. People who have innate aptitude for idol worship continue to be born in this world, generation after generation, and this will happen in future as well. In fact, the majority would belong to this class only. And for guiding them step by step, RK Math shall continue to be inclusive of all paths - from idol worship to Advaita Vedanta.
Best regards,
Nikhil
hemant hv
V V R S
Rajashekar.
Tirtha Mitra
hemant hv
PHANI KRISHNA
Please go through the URL
http://ramakrishnateachings.blogspot.com/2009/06/totapuri-paramhansa-totapuri-sri.html
or any other book which describes how Totapuri removed Ramakrisha's delusion of KALI.
<<<<
Totapuri had asked Sri Ramakrishna to withdraw his mind from the world, its objects, including the gods and goddesses, and to concentrate on the Absolute. Sri Ramakrishna was able to follow this instruction but He could not remove the image of Mother Kali from his mind.
Mother Kali was the last hurdle in Sri Ramakrishna Enlightenment. Sri Ramakrishna tried again and again to remove the image of Mother Kali from his Mind but he could not. Finally Totapuri said to Sri Ramakrishna that close your eyes and when you see mother kali then cut her head with a imaginery sword and the moment Sri Ramakrishna did this, He realized the absolute truth and stayed in Samadhi state for 3 days.
With Totapuri guidance Sri Ramakrishna realized truth in a day .
>>>>>
From this it is evident that Rama Krishna achieved single-pointedness after doing
various sadhanas starting from the stage of priest .
Because of his pure Love towards KALI ,he was able to see everything as KALI.
But the Single thought of KALI was still present there which was still a delusion.
Then under the guidance of TOTAPURI (advaita) master, he cut even the single thought
or delusion of KALI to enter Nirvikalpa samadhi.
Also read the article if you are interested more...
Please go through the URL
http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/articles/article/2291157/31005.htm
<<<
Paul Brunton wrote that Master Mahayasa ("M"), whose diary became The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, privately confessed to Brunton’s friend, Swami Desikananda, that the Gospel only contained elementary and not advanced teachings, and that Ramakrishna stopped disciples from discussing more esoteric subjects like Advaita Vedanta when Mahayasa was near because he knew that the latter was keeping a journal.
Swami Lokeswarananda wrote:
"Because not all of Sri Ramakrishna's teachings are included in the Gospel, it is necessary to read Swami Saradananda's Sri Ramakrishna The Great Master, along with the works of Swami Vivekananda, and the reminiscences compiled by the other monastic disciples of Sri Ramakrishna. One should study all these writings, but particularly those of Swami Vivekananda. The words of Sri Ramakrishna are the scripture; the words of Swamiji are the bhasya, the commentary. If we study both the Gospel and the works of Swamiji, we will be able to have a perfect picture of Sri Ramakrishna." (4)
Iyer wrote:
"Master Mahasaya could not understand philosophy (Vedanta), so Ramakrishna made no attempt to teach him Advaita, but told him to go on practicing religion, thus lifting him up along the path fitted to him. This shows the practical wisdom of Ramakrishna." (9)
>>>>
From this it is evident that during Rama Krisha's teachings ,few(Like Vivekananda) were having real passion to know the Truth and hence he shared Advaita with them only.
For the rest of the people ,he suggested lowest forms of idol worship etc.
He also appreciated Supreme devotion and Bhakthi of Satva category who have love
towards TRUTH in their hearts.
Ramanana maharshi once told to one of the questions that Rama krishna and Vivekananda are not two but the one.I hope you all agree with that.
Then let us come to Swami Vivekananda's Bhakti Yoga you are talking about.
I request you to read the complete works of Vivekananda.
Please go through the URL
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/Volume_9/Lectures_and_Discourses/Bhakti-Yoga
<<<<
When a plant is growing, it is necessary that it should be hedged round lest any animal should eat it up. But when it has become strong and a huge gigantic tree, do not care for any hedges — it is perfect in itself. So when just the seed of spirituality is growing, to fritter away the energies on all sorts of religious ideas — a little of this and a little of that: a little of Christianity, a little of Buddhism, and, in reality, of nothing — destroys the soul.
We see that the vast mass of mankind is born in some church or temple of [some religious] form and never comes out of it. Why? Have these forms helped the growth of spirituality? If through these forms we step onto the highest platform of love, where forms vanish and all these sectarian ideas go away, how is it that the vast majority of men are always grovelling in some form or another? They are all atheists; they do not want any religion
That drill business in the temples and churches — kneeling down at a certain time, standing at ease, and all that drill nonsense, all mechanical, with the mind thinking of something else — all this has nothing to do with real religion.
>>>
I think now that the drill business and kneeling down shifted to Rama Krishna math from temples.
Please go through the URL
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/Volume_2/Practical_Vedanta_and_other_lectures/The_Goal
It is good to be born in a temple, but woe unto the person who dies in a temple or church. Out of it! . . . It was a good beginning, but leave it! It was the childhood place . . . but let it be! . . . Go to God directly. No theories, no doctrines. Then alone will all doubts vanish. Then alone will all crookedness be made straight. . .
It was in old days that people used to visit temples out of pure love or dispassion etc.
But now a days most of the people going to temples are out of desires only.
Now a days so many Babas and others even after involving in various cases
also freely going to temples and Temples welcome them .
The temples are effected in a way that if we go to temples out of our love ,
our love also may melt in the aura created by Babas and others.
Then regarding Rama Krishna and Vivekananda going to Temples...
I already mentioned how Rama Krishna had to cut KALI ....
Then Vivekananda used to worship KALI.
But to Vivekanada ,KALI is "DEATH,ALL DESTROYER".Read his peoms on KALI.
Please go through the URL
http://www.vivekananda.net/knownletters/1900NewYork.html
<<<<
To Miss Mary Hale
....
IIt is true I am much better, but not yet completely recovered; anyway, the complexion of the mind is one belonging to everyone that suffers. It is neither gas nor anything else.
Kâli worship is not a necessary step in any religion. The Upanishads teach us all there is of religion. Kali worship is my special fad; you never heard me preach it, or read of my preaching it in India. I only preach what is good for universal humanity. If there is any curious method which applies entirely to me, I keep it a secret and there it ends. I must not explain to you what Kali worship is, as I never taught it to anybody. .
>>>>
So, Kali worship is Vivekananda's special fad.He never preached it.....
I have pointed out how sages told image worship is lowest and childish.
If you and Rama Krishna Math want to stay in it for years in it ,its your wish.
Let other people upgrade to know Meditation is lower than Self Enquiry.
Let other people upgrade to know how effortless state of SIlENCE or
BEING is better than Self Enquiry.
phani krishna