The Unbroken Laws.

[parameswaran ramaswamy]

Respected Devotees, Nameshkar,   An atom consists of  Electrons which are negatively charged particles, Proton which are positively charged particles and Neutron which have no charges.  An atom has nucleus at the centre, which contains Protons and Neutrons.  Around the nucleus , in different circular  outer orbits,  various Electrons are rotating in its own axis as well as moving around in its own orbits.  Total number of Electrons and Protons in an Element varies depending upon the Atomic number of that Element.  For Example: Atomic number of Hydrogen is 1, which means , Hydrogen atom has 1 Electron in its outer orbit and 1 Proton , 1 Neutron at the centre of Nucleus.   What keeps the atom stable , is the four forces which are acting.  The same four forces, which keeps the Atom stable at Microcosm level ,  keeps the Universe stable at the Macrocosm level.   The four forces  which keeps the Microcosm and Macrocosm stable are : 1)      Strong Nucleus forces  2)  Centripetal force,  3)  Centrifugal force 4)  Gravitational force.   Hence the Electron is rotating in its own axis as well as rotating around its own orbit.   1)      Nucleus Force:    As  per the Universal Law,  positive charges should attract negative charges ,positive charge  should repel positive charge and negative charge should repel negative charge. Whereas in an Atom, all the positive charges  the Protons are all held together at the Centre which is Nucleus.  This happens due to Strong Nucleus force at the centre ,which keeps the Protons held together.   2) Centripetal force:    As per the universal Law, the positive attracts negative.  Hence Electrons which are moving  in the outer orbit is being attracted by the positive charge of Protons at the centre of  Nucleus.    3) Centrifugal Force:   Since Electron are rotating in its own axis as well as moving around the orbit,  the Centrifugal force which are acting outward direction , keeps the balance with  earlier said  Centripetal force , which are acting inward toward Nucleus.    4)  Finally the Gravitational force.   So it is difficult to find the fixed position of Electron in an Atom  since it is rotating as well as moving around its orbit at the same time.    Hence Scientist Heinsberg  came out with the equation , which states that the Uncertainty in position multiply with the Uncertainty in momentum  is equal to constant.  Imagine that you squeeze the Atom.  Then the Electron clouds are getting squashed , which means Electrons are getting closer  to Nucleus   The moment Electrons are getting closer to nucleus by shifting from its original orbit, speeder will be the rotation of Electrons .  Thus making the centrifugal force more stronger  and keep the Electrons in its original orbit in order to balance the Centripetal force . Thus it stops the Electron falling into Nucleus.   Final Conclusion:   In the same way,  as explained , mind is also a matter with the Vasanas (Desires).  All matters in the Universe tries to go towards that Nucleus Centre.  In the same way, man also needs to go towards his nucleus Centre which is the Atman, the Brahmman of Vedanta, the One Absolute Truth.  If  one does not know how to handle that matter in the mind  carefully , which is desires, and tries to suppress the same in order to move towards one’s Nucleus centre, by any short cut methods of  Meditation, severe practice of Yoga  etc, without  regular practice of Sadhana , which is Jnana, bhakthi , dharana , karma,  the pressure of  suppressed vasanas  rotates at its very high speed, and thrown oneself into the outer orbits, which is indulging in the world.   Desires cannot be handled directly by confronting with the desires.  In order to  handle desire, one needs to raise over desires by pitching up higher desire, the desire to know the Truth of Life.  When a person pitches up  higher desire, lower desires slowly falls.  This is what I call its as intelligent way of getting detached by getting attached to Higher.  Attach you lose ; detach you gain . Attach you gain; detach you lose .  Both are Unbroken Laws.   Thanks with regards, R. Parameswaran.

[manisha k]

--
SWADHYAYA PRAVACHANABHYAM NA PRAMADITAVYAM
{Be not negligent about the study and exposition of scriptures. - Taittriya Upanishad}
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Devotees of Holy Trio" group.
To post to this group, send email to holy_t...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to holy_trinity...@googlegroups.com

[Sankhadip Das]

Respected Parameshwaran Ji

Very profound writing. I have several questions. 

What is the substance that makes mind?

Is mind made of particles finer than atom?

Here, centripetal force is attraction to our real nature and centrifugal is desire. But what will be the position of gravitational force? May be not keeping spirituality intact is the cause of our degradation. 

Does the law of nature is applicable to Atman? 

What is the charge actually and where from atoms are generating these +ve and -ve charges. 

Is energy condensing himself into atom and thus creating matter? 

We heard that universe is ever expanding. If there is strong centripetal force, and it is neutralized by centrifugal force then how is expansion possible? B Hinduism supports the theory of expansion by saying  before creation Brahman wishes to be many.

Though these are all stupid questions, but Teacher will never mind to answer these as his ultimate motive is improvement of student.

Regards & Pranam

Das

[parameswaran ramaswamy]

Dear Sankhadip Dasji, Nameshkar,   As regards to your question, the following is the answer. I request Sri Arnab and other devotees to throw some light on your questions   1) What substance that makes the mind.   Ans:  Mind is nothing but the indiscriminate thought flow.  Intellect is nothing but the discriminate thought flows.  That is why intellect is subtler than the mind,  Mind is subtler than the body.  Intellect fuction is to channelize the indiscriminate thought flow to a particular direction.  Always intellect fixes the Goal not the mind.  Mind cannot fix any goal.  What it knows ,is instant pleasure at all time.  Hence thought also a matter but subtler than the brain. Thought creates this gross body to manifest.  It starts like small breeze and then finally end up like a Tornado and the body appears in the Universe. That small gnetile breeze at the very initial stage  is called Vasanas .  Vasanas is like a Fragrance form which very subtle than the thought itself.  The root of Vasanas is the ignorance of the Self, one;s own Real identity, the subtlest seed. Vedanthist inqury is Who banged that sublest seed     Hence the Universe is the Gross matter in the Macrocosm level.  Atom is the subtle matter of that Universe in the Microcosm level. Sublter than that is the sub atomic particles.in the Universe.  In the beginning it was all in the Energy form.  Then the Scientist says that the Universe has come due to big bang.as the starting point..  Whereas the Vedanthist inquriry is who banged that big bang?.   So when we come to individual level.  body is the gross. In descending or of subtlty, first brain, then intellect, mind, thoguht, vasanas, ignorance.   Coming back to your question, when we cannot see the smallest paticle of single election alone even through advanced telesecope, even though it is also a matter, how can it be possible subtlest matter thought, then further subtlest level vasanas, which is also a matter at microcosm. When we spray perfrume, you see the finaest particle clouds of that perfume particles.  It is a matter.  Due to the release of that finest particle, what you feel through nose is Fragrance, which you cannot see and whereas it is also the subtlest matter of form. Hence the frgrance of Vasanas, subtlest manifestation is also the form of matter. More the subtlest, its pervasiveness will be more.  Hence the vasanas is more pervasive than the mind and intellect. Christ represents our body; Holy ghost represents our Vasanas; Father in heaven represents Uttam Purusha, the Atman, The brahman of the vedanta whose pervasivenss is Infinite and in and through holy Ghost and Christ.    As regards to your question of Universe is expanding, even in expansion , all the four forces are acting in perfect orderly manner.  Hence the Universe is stable.  If any of the forces becomes imbalanced, then there is no stability of the Universe  and it would be the beginning of the collapse.   .Thanks with regards, R. Parameswaran   --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Sankhadip Das <das...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Utpal Chakrabarty]

Hari Om Ramakrishna

 

Dear Mr. Ramaswamy

 

Pranam and thanks for raising a topic, a complete comprehension of which is quite beyond my limited education but still makes me curious. I read your write up with keen interest including your responses to questions.

 

I sincerely hope that I am not being offensive if I request you to provide a bit more elaboration in three (actually two) areas as follows:

 

1. It is not so much as to who caused the Big Bang but what existed before the Big Bang; did space exist before the Big Bang?
2. It is not so much as to how the equilibrium is maintained in the expanding but where does it expand into. Does it mean that the space is also expanding or it presupposes that an infinite amount of space always existed?  
3. How about increasing entropy - does Vedanta believe in increasing entropy of Thermodynamics? Does the creation comes to an end when entropy reaches its maximum limit? Or is there an unknown process that goes on reducing the entropy and thereby a constant entropy is maintained? This I am asking because some argue that by now entropy sould have exceeded the value required for life to exist on Earth.  

Jai Sri Ramakrishna Dev Ki Jai

 

Utpal Chakrabarty 

[Arnab Lahiri]

Q- What is the substance that makes up Mind? Is mind made of particles finer than atom?

To know this in details first we will see what is actually gross and subtle. Since, we always discuss mind as a subtle body.

Gross is what is cognized by our senses, subtle is something that is not cognized by our Limited senses. Just the way as humans are incapable of seeing the ultraviolet light same way, we have certain limitations due to which we fail to realize the subtle things. In Sastra we find several reference of Subtle body- some says that it is transparent and is devoid of attributes making the same difficult to perceive by human senses. Saints do have vision of Subtle body - as we have read even Thakur saying so- but that is due to the Yogic power much similar to what we find in Gita- as Divyachaksu- the divine eye given to Arjuna by Krishna

Mind is regarded in Indian Philosophy as Antahakarana or the Inner Instruments; subtle inner organ. Antahakarana in Advait vedanta includes the mind (manas), Intellect (Buddhi), Ahamkara (Self sense) and Attention (Citta). Mind is considered to be responsible for indetermination, buddhi for determination, ahamkara is responsible for self consciousness and citta as mode of concentration and remembrance. To learn in details we must know what mind is from the different angles. There are almost a 1000 theories pertaining to the mind, i am citing the major one- taken from Vedanta as well as Science. However i will request the devotees to please read the Buddhisim text as they provide a solid foundation on both conscious and un-conscious mind and their psychological implications that are in practice even in todays world of psychology due to their huge practical relevance. To keep the mail short i will take into consideration mainly the Vedantic view since the original article by Parameswaran Ji was related to that.

In Vedic literature, the term Manas is used in two distinct ways. The term is used in the sense of a material substance and the term is used in the sense of a the faculties of the human mind. The substance notion of Manas persisted even in the Upanisads, Buddhism, Yoga and influenced the way the  nature of activities of psychological functions are represented. 

Chandogya Upanisad states- Annamayam hi somya manah- manas is said to have originated out of the food what we eat. Similarly in Samkhya, the concept of Prakriti represents the fundamental material principle and 24 tattvas are supposed to have originated from this. Both Mind and matter as differentiated in western thought are considered here as two manifestation of prakrti, constited of Triguna. It is necessary to recognize here that the notion of materiality as understood in Indian tradition is not at the level of gross matter, what is referred to as a fundamental material principle is perhaps even subtler than what modern physicists call fundamental particles. In Indian thought there are concepts like panchabhuta and pancatanmatra that represents the subtlest of the subtle matter. Manas in Veda is regarded as material substance and its activity is, therefore, regarded as mechanical and dynamic modification of that substance.

This Mind undergoes three types of modification- Movement or Virbration, Slidification or thickening and Affliction or Suffering. We all know that it is the last one that is responsible for Dukkha. The other two are self explanatory. Experince (Vedana), Perception (Samjna) and Consciousness (Vijnana) are all included in these. To shorten the mail I am not elaborating them in details.

Thus, as per Vedas the mind is made up of finer or subtle substance.

As per western science Mind manifests itself as a stream of consciousness. Now where these consciousness resides in debatable issue. I was reading a recent article by Dr. V S Ramchandran where he cited that he found some of the areas of brain that contribute more to consciousness. We, can probable say that as the seat of Human Mind. The link of the article for reference is :

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2701/stories/20100115270113400.htm

In one of my earlier article i have already mentioned in details the similarity of Indian concept of Mind with that of western counterpart. The same theory holds true for Freud's theory of id, ego, superego as well.

One more thing we have to keep in mind- Vedanta teaches the Self to be the only Subject. It considers the internal organs (antahakarana), the senses and desire even as object. 

Q- Here, centripetal force is attraction to our real nature and centrifugal is desire. But what will be the position of gravitational force? May be not keeping spirituality intact is the cause of our degradation. 

Whereas Centripetal and centrifugal forces are intra forces that acts between desire and real nature, gravitational force is inter-force that acts between one individual and other. Jiva or Empirical Ego consists of two things- Saksin (Witness Self) and Antahakarana (Inner Organ).

Jiva= Saksin + Antahakarana. Now, the Antahakarana acts as a limitation to the Witness Self or Saksin, where as the same antahakarana acts as an attribute to the Jiva. So when we talk of the centripetal and centrifugal force we are talking about the relation of Antahakarana with the Saksin (the witnessing self). When we talk about the gravitational force we are talking about the relation of one Jiva with another. That is my relation with yours. 

Note: I have used Samkara's Anekajivavada (Theory of Multiple Souls) to explain the role of gravitational forces.

Q- Does the law of nature is applicable to Atman? 

Please define which laws you are talking about. The theory of Atman does not defies any natural law. It verifies in fact all the laws. All the laws of nature and in fact science are subset of that Universal law. When we talk about law, we limit to laws that are well established and does not change with time, not hypothesis or assumptions.

Q- What is the charge actually and where from atoms are generating these +ve and -ve charges. Is energy condensing himself into atom and thus creating matter? 

To keep the size of mail, i am not elaborating on these topics. Moreover these comes under the realm of Physics. Please read these from websites or standard text books. To the second part - energy and matter are interchangeable. In fact matter is nothing but a bundle of energy. The proof of the same theory exists even in Vedanta as well. Swami Vivekananda when was touched by Thakur, saw the world full of consciousness- that is as energy only. Some say consciousness as work of chemicals, some say function of brain but what ever we call it is ultimately an energy only. In Saivism there is one interesting theory that says that The Soul is all Conscious where as Matter is all unconscious. How the both are related. They introduce the role of Sakti as Energy to link the two. Kali is said to be energy manifested that acts as a link between the soul and the matter ( as per Saivism)

Q-We heard that universe is ever expanding. If there is strong centripetal force, and it is neutralized by centrifugal force then how is expansion possible? B Hinduism supports the theory of expansion by saying  before creation Brahman wishes to be many.

It is not so much as to who caused the Big Bang but what existed before the Big Bang; did space exist before the Big Bang?

It is not so much as to how the equilibrium is maintained in the expanding but where does it expand into. Does it mean that the space is also expanding or it presupposes that an infinite amount of space always existed?  

How about increasing entropy - does Vedanta believe in increasing entropy of Thermodynamics? Does the creation comes to an end when entropy reaches its maximum limit? Or is there an unknown process that goes on reducing the entropy and thereby a constant entropy is maintained? This I am asking because some argue that by now entropy sould have exceeded the value required for life to exist on Earth. 

To answer the following questions of Sankhadip Ji and Utpal Ji i will recommend to please read the works of Stephen Hawkins and a little on the following theories:

Big Bang

Fred Hoyle's Steady state model

Einstein's Cosmological constant

Theory of quantum gravity and superstrings.

As without these theories it is next to impossible to deal with the minute details of the subject. The theory of Universe and in particular big bang, entropy is vast topic and can not be dealt in details in one mail. So, i will request you to please refer to the following articles as reference before we can start with the discussion:

http://www.ralentz.com/old/astro/hawking-1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

In short, the theory of Big Bang resembles closely with the theory propounded by Vedanta and Samkhya. Even some of the concepts such as balance is also mentioned in Samkhya. I will correlate the same later when i will get time to do so.  One more thing- as asked by Utpal Ji does there exists any process that reduces the entropy to maintain the constant entropy- the answer is probable yes. While reading the articles by Stephen Hawkins and some work of Einstein we find this. They said that the gravitational force acts as a deceleration to the disorderliness of the Universe. However there are few more theories based on this that is too vast to discuss here. 

For the information of readers, the most probable date of Big bang is 13.2 -14 Billion years ago! We have no other choice other than to presume the conditions then to arrive at the conclusions now. :) Interesting thing is that even some of the great scientists also credits the work of God to explain the theories, as they are unable to work on final conclusion due to intense complexities involved. Theories of probability, statistics and even complex mathematical models sometimes fail to answer them...

Regards,

Arnab Lahiri

2010/1/17 Utpal Chakrabarty <uchakr...@gmail.com>

--
Nature evolves a world full of woe and desolation to raise the soul from its slumber

[Sankhadip Das]

Respected Parmaswaran Ji, Arnab Ji

We remain grateful for these splendid answers. Mere reading of these answers is not sufficient, it needs strong meditation to penetrate these. These answers serve the purpose of "sravan" & "manan" and now it requires "nididhyasan" to feel it.

It only gives rise to more inquisitiveness. 

Vasana is like fragrance, what is samaskar? It is said that mind is repeatedly doing work compelling by samaskar. 

Can we say Vasana is the father of samaskar?

Mind is divided into four parts - manas, intellect, chitta and ego / ahamkara / i-ness. Maharshi Raman repeatedly asked to find the cause of this 'I'. It seems this 'I' is the reflection of consciousness or may be the light of consciousness is the 'I', which create a separateness from the rest of universe.   

If we are separate from mind, then why we can't establish mastery on this? To understand this we have to analyse so much. Why we cant able to wield mind as per our will? 

Why we usually tend to enjoy world? What is the source of pleasure? If it comes from Self then why it seems that the pleasure comes from the matter. For e.g. i am seeing movie. It is so exciting that i can not able to unhook myself from that. Hence, the movie itself is the cause for enjoyment. Where the concept of self comes into picture? 

As per neurologist, the emotion, sorrow, pleasure is causing by only hormones. I heard only 5 hormones are responsible for feeling sorrow. So, here mind is totally tangible matter and can be chemically analysed. 

Lastly, i would like to thanks again for providing valuable links for study. 

Regards & Pranam

Das

   

[Arnab Lahiri]

Dear Sankhadip Ji

Your questions are very practical and important as well. Please give me sometime, I will like to answer each of them one by one. These questions not only clear the doubts but also helps us in realizing the practical aspect of Vedanta.

I am impressed specially with your questions related to Science of Vedanta- give me sometime i will answer each of them.

Thanks and regards,

Arnab Lahiri

2010/1/18 Sankhadip Das <das...@gmail.com>

--
SWADHYAYA PRAVACHANABHYAM NA PRAMADITAVYAM
{Be not negligent about the study and exposition of scriptures. - Taittriya Upanishad}
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Devotees of Holy Trio" group.
To post to this group, send email to holy_t...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to holy_trinity...@googlegroups.com

[Bharat Churiwala]

Respected Parameswaranji, Arnabji and Sankhadipji and Devotees,
 
I dont know how to express my feeling, but at the outset I am feeling LOTS OF BLISS AND LITTLE BIT OF PRIDE, while going through these QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSIONS.
 
It seems that HOLY TRIO HAVE REALLY BLESSED THIS FAMILY OF DEVOTEES!!!!!!
 
I can only add, PLEASE KEEP IT UP.
 
a devotee of DEVOTEES

---

New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.

[Sankhadip Das]

Respected Arnab Ji, Parameswaran Ji, and Devotees

As Bharat Ji repeatedly told that we have gems like Parameswaran Ji, Arnab Ji, Gomu Ji and obviously many revered Mahara Jis, Mata Jis and Devotees who are regularly showering Gems in our daily life. 

We should utilise this platform and elevate ourselves as high as possible. Who can say in our next life (if we by chance have to take birth) whether we could again be a member of this group. 

The topic raised by Parameswaran Ji is so vast that it can not be discussed with two or three mails. 

Arnabji please take your own time. Whatever you delivered in your last post till i am digesting.

 

Regards

Das

[Arnab Lahiri]

Dear Sankhadip Ji and Devotees,

I decided to answer all the questions at one go, but since these things need in depth analysis, it takes time to compile the answers. I have answered all the questions but the most important one- that is one that deals with Samskara and Vasana and Ramana Maharshi's quest for "Who the I is", I need to add some more details. I will take some more time and will add some more details to my explanations before i post it in the group. Due to lack of time, i will work on the remaining two questions tomorrow. Right now I am sending the answers of rest of the questions. Please do let me know if you have any doubt regarding the same

Q-If we are separate from mind, then why we can't establish mastery on this? To understand this we have to analyse so much. Why we cant able to wield mind as per our will?

 

The uncontrolled mind is like a wild monkey. It tends to jump from one branch to other (one thought to other). The same mind acts as an instrument for self realization also when controlled and disciplined. Yoga calls the mind as Citta and the entire Patanjali’s Yoga sastra deals with method of control of this Mind. The mind when control can give tremendous power. It is just like a hot body placed in an insulated environment with just one small opening. Naturally the entire heat will be radiated from that small hole with high intensities. But the same body if left open will dissipate heat equally throughout the surface. We read in physics also that a sharp point dissipates more charges compared to a blunt one (Concept of earthing wire). All these analogies are equally applicable to mind as well.

Know this that the mind is also a part of Prakriti. In Samkhya only the Self is subjective, rest all are objective. Mind also acts as an instrument. The 23 principles derived  from prakriti that includes Mind, buddhi, ahamkara, five senses, five tanmantras, five organs of action, five gross elements of ether, air, water, air, light earth are the instruments of Purusa. All these things mentioned are considered to be vikritis of Prakriti. Buddhi which controls the mind is itself Satwika (always directed towards God) but on account of previous life contamination (Samskaras and Vasanas) it aquires the Rajasika or Tamasika quality. These contaminations lead the mind to be wayward and attached to the senses and hence difficult to control. If we purify our Mind, get rid of our past tendencies, then we shall be in a position to learn the Self.

Q- Why we usually tend to enjoy world? What is the source of pleasure? If it comes from Self then why it seems that the pleasure comes from the matter. For e.g. i am seeing movie. It is so exciting that i can not able to unhook myself from that. Hence, the movie itself is the cause for enjoyment. Where the concept of self comes into picture? 

This question is one of the most interesting one. We live in the world of senses; the mind tends to get attached to the senses. Upanisad says that the mind when diverted to the world of senses (outward) produces modifications as a result of which it fails to focus on the real Self. The mind when turned inward acts as a mirror where we can get the reflection of the Self. Now comes the real part- why then we still let our mind get attached to senses and why we tend to enjoy the world, movie and not the Self.

The Katha Upanisad talks about pleasure and happiness. When Yama offers Nachiketa wealth to enjoy this earth, when He said that “I will make you the enjoyer of thy desires” Yama actually offer Nachiketa the pleasure of senses. But Nachiketa refrained from all these. For Nachiketa these were transient, something that wears out. He was eager to seek something permanent- this is what we call happiness. Thus we learn from Upanisad that there are two methods of enjoyment- one is temporary evanescent what we call as pleasure- it’s a momentary comfort to our sense organs. The other one is permanent, ever accompanying the spirit and that we call Happiness- more better term is Bliss.

 

Please read the following slokas taken directly from Katha that will reinforce the above points. To keep the mail short I will be using the English translation only, not the Sanskrit sloka in original.

 

Yama said: Different is the good, and different, indeed is the pleasant. These two, with different purposes, bind a man. OF these two, it is well for him who takes hold of the good, but he who chooses the pleasant (pleasure), fails in his aim.

As per Samkara- the highest good for a man is not pleasure but moral goodness.

Both the good (Happiness) and the pleasure approaches a man. The wise man pondering on them, DISCRIMINATES. The wise man chooses the good in preference to the pleasant. The simple minded man, for the sake of well being, prefers the pleasure (attached to senses).

Samkara suggests tha Avidya (Ignorance) is concerned with the pleasant and Vidya (wisdom) is concern with the good (Happiness)

The Self is not to be sought through the senses. The Mind is open to outward through the opening of the senses, therefore one looks outward and not within oneself. Some wise man, however, seeking life eternal, with his eyes turned inward, saw the Self.

One thing to be noted here is that the Upanisad calls for the CONTROL of the senses and not the SUPRESSION of the senses- which affirms to modern psychology as well.

The small minded go after outward pleasures. They walk into the snare of widespread death. The wise, however, recognizing life eternal do not seek the unstable things.

By Mind alone that Self can be known. Here by Mind means by controlling the functions, modifications of mind. And this control is in the hands of Intellect (Buddhi). I have already mentioned that the uncontrolled mind as per the Upanisad is like monkey who jumps from one place to other. These mind needs to be controlled, trained using the 8 limbs of Yoga to attain the Self. The steady control of mind and the senses is called Yoga.

Thus we see here the reason why we enjoy the world. We enjoy the world because we are sense dependent. It gives us pleasure that is momentary. One who seeks for the Happiness that is permanent seeks for the Self. I feel that I have discussed the Kosas also. The Jiva is composed of 5 layers, of which the inner most is the Ananadamaya Kosa or the Joyous sheath; the sheath of bliss. It is so called because it reflects the bliss characteristics as the true Self. This Kosa is covered by the Manomaya kosa (Mind), Vijnanmaya kosa (Intellect), Pranamaya kosa (Prana) and Annamaya kosa (Gross Body). To penetrate and reach the region of Atman one has to turn his senses inward, mind meditative.

To sum up the entire thing:

Why we usually tend to enjoy world? – Because we are dependent on our senses and thus we are pleasure dependent. Common man believes in temporary pleasure than the permanent happiness.

What is the source of pleasure? - The mind is both the source of pleasure (when directed outward and driven by senses) and happiness (when directed inward towards the true Self).

If it comes from Self then why it seems that the pleasure comes from the matter. For e.g. i am seeing movie. It is so exciting that i can not able to unhook myself from that. Hence, the movie itself is the cause for enjoyment. Where the concept of self comes into picture? – The pleasure comes from senses; it is matter dependent – like in your example say a movie. But happiness comes from Self and attaining that state. Happiness is much more rewarding, much for peaceful, everlasting and enjoyable.  That’s the reason Thakur said that attaining God, realizing the Self and being absorbed in the Self is like developing 1000 sexual pores on the body. Swami Vivekananda said that meditation is itself Bliss!

Q- As per neurologist, the emotion, sorrow, pleasure is causing by only hormones. I heard only 5 hormones are responsible for feeling sorrow. So, here mind is totally tangible matter and can be chemically analysed.

You know what- Science is able to decipher the properties of the mind but not the mind itself. This is the biggest challenge as well as problem to science. Mind as such is not a visible thing- as mentioned in earlier mail to you. It is subtle, finer than the finest element. I like the software hardware analogy in this regard. Just the way the computer is hardware but in itself is functionless unless the software is installed; similarly brain is the hardware where the software of mind works. Now science is unable to dissect this mind, so most of the researches are actually projective. They identify some active regions of brain; some chemicals called hormones, some electric signals, some peptides, molecules and call the same Mind! Now just reverse the approach- extract all of these and inject in a dead body or in a stone- will these create Mind??? No, never, never it can. This proves that these things constitute the working of the mind no doubt but are not in themselves Mind.

Imagine a pot made of clay, color, sand and water. Now when they are together we call it pot, but if I break the same into pieces where the pot resides? Can I call the clay pot? Can I call the color pot? Can I call the sand or water pot? But together when they were there in space we called it pot. Such is mind. It depends on brain, but is not only brain; it depends on consciousness, but is not only consciousness, it depends on chemicals and electric signals but is not only these! Thus we see that the mind is not and was never tangible matter. What is tangible is its properties, the chemicals, signals and others.

Let me use one more analogy. I am not sure how many of you have seen or tasted betel leaf (Pan). When a person put betel leaf, areka nut, chuna and katha in his mouth and chew on them, his mouth becomes red; this red color is created by combination of these things, i.e chemicals reaction of these things. Same is how mind is made of.

Its only 0.0005% of what mind is all about. It’s a vast topic, very vast. Scientists are working day and night to have a glimpse of what mind is all about. I believe where science ends, philosophy begins, where philosophy ends – religion starts. We are fortunate that we have certain models in Philosophy that give us idea what mind is. Those who are interested more on this topic please read Descartes, Plato, Aristotle to get the western reference. To keep this mail short I have not included these concepts. I am sorry that I have not analyzed these questions in light of Bhagwat Gita that has answer to all these queries. I will request the readers to please correlate the same from chapter 2, 3 and 15 of Bhagwat Gita also. 

Thanks and Regards,

Arnab Lahiri

[Sankhadip Das]

Respected Arnab ji & Parameswaran ji

Following thoughts float after reading your wisdom:

The mind has to be convinced first, that there must be a higher, nobler, infinite life which exists beyond the world of only eating, sleeping and getting sensual pleasure. 

We have to have a strong faith that there is something beyond. The proofs are - several sages have realized the Self and tell us to follow certain path. 

 The senses should have to be used very carefully. We have to remember that the world is not for enjoyment, but a tool which could be used for attaining a goal. 

Description of the charioteer driving the chariot driven by five horses is so appropriate. Horses want to enjoy world. Driver is controlling horses by rein. Similarly, our Viveka has to be very efficient otherwise horses will destroy the chariot. 

Now, what is the difference between controlling and suppression ?

 If we going to control senses then the desire has to be suppressed. 

Parameswaran ji mentioned that there is no harm in seeing the movie, but rewinding again and again is the problem. 

But if i stop seeing movie still the desire remains there. As Holy Mother said that even if us have a wish to eat sweet, then we have to come back again. So, here controlling or suppression is hindering the liberation. 

OR we can say that we should have controlled desire ??

Sometimes i became master of mind but after few days the mind just rams me and win the match in straight set. 

Please keep raining  your ambrosia. 

Regards

Das

[parameswaran ramaswamy]

Dear Shankhaldip dasji/devotees, Nameshkar,   Your question is:

"Now, what is the difference between controlling and suppression ?  If we going to control senses then the desire has to be suppressed.  Parameswaran ji mentioned that there is no harm in seeing the movie, but rewinding again and again is the problem.  "But if i stop seeing movie still the desire remains there. As Holy Mother said that even if us have a wish to eat sweet, then we have to come back again. So, here controlling or suppression is hindering the liberation."

Answer:  the difference between controlling and suppression:   Controlling:  The explanation I have given for your example of 'how to watch the  movie' and at the same how to enjoy enjoy is only to explain  how to handle the existing desires. in one's  life.  The method I mentioned is 'perception should with perception' which is nothing but the intelligence way of detachment.  In those areas of vasanas if one is able to get detached intelligently and act, it means to that extent one's intellect is devloped.  In those areas of vasanas where the intelligent detachment is not happening, it means that to that extent intellect is not developed.  Then one needs to develop the intellect more.  Devlopment of intellect is possible only through the regular practice of Jnana, bakthi, karma , dharana , meditation.  Controlling of mind is possible only with the development of intellect. Under the supervision of intellect,  the mind can be  under control.  If the intellect is weak, mind takes over the intellect and also makes the intellect justifies its action.  To explain what is detachment, I can take the example of  'burning of Trade center in U.S.A on 26/11' .  At that time, everybody was watching how the trade centre is getting burnt, and how people were struggling to come out, and how people were dying, and how the terrorists were hitting the building etc., in a detached way. The entire horrifying scene we were able to see without closing the TV.  Suppose any of our relatives would have been there and the picture of  how he or she died in the same trade centre is shown in the TV, we would have closed  that TV immediately.  Because of the attachment, any one would have suffered mentally.  In the same way, how we have watched the TV , if a person acts on the propelled prarabdha desires with the detachment , it means to the extend his intellect is developed, In this case even though he acts on desire, he does not get affected.  The rewinding in the mind does not take place.  Infact  detachment gives enjoyment even after acting on propelled desire.  In this way vasanas deos not get added.  Sanchitha vasanas also slowly gets knocked off.  On the other hand, imind indulgence adds vasanas.A doctor performs 100 crictical operations successfully but when it comes to his own wife, he prefers the operation be done by some other doctors because he emotionally gets attached.  In the earlier case he is successful because he performs the operation in a detached manner.  But for his wife, the attachment disturbs his action.    Supression:   When one tries to control the indulging mind by avoiding acting on the propelled prarabdha vasanas,  without the supervision of intellect, the mind which is forcibly suppressed  errupts like a valcono in another opportunity.    Hope I could explain upto your satisfaction.

Thanks with regards, R. Parameswaran

--- On Tue, 1/19/10, Sankhadip Das <das...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sankhadip Das <das...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Devotees of Holy Trio:18803] The Unbroken Laws. To: holy_t...@googlegroups.com