Image Modeler Autodesk
Margaretha Palone
Okay, so i'm not gonna claim to be a CAD expert of any degree, i've been drafting now for just over a year, spent 6 months+ working with Mechanical Desktop, and managed to learn crap loads in that time, and have spent the last 4months or so pulling my hair out with inventor... my biggest gripe is that everytime i tell someone how much better mechanical desktop is, they say "yeah.. well inventor is parametric"... WOOOPTY FARKING DOOO!! so far i've found that you need to put SOOOo much effort into constructing your model in such a way as to predict any changes your likely to make. otherwise when you change a dimension, your mate constraints chuck a spazz, and you spend the next 5 mins correcting your constraints... then if you decide to change something back, you do it all again... mechanical desktop on the other hand has simple commands... like MOVE... and COPY... and SUBTRACT etc etc... it means that if you decide to change a part, everything else is uneffected... if you want them to change as well... then you change them as well...
i have to admit, i admire the ability to use reference data in drawings, but the few advantages i've seen FAAAAR outweigh the disadvantages... i honestly can't see why inventor would be the prefered option over someting like Mechanical Desktop...
and another thing... is it just me, or is inventor the least stable program you've ever used??? i've had it crash on me HEAPS AND HEAPS of times when i'm doing stupid things like.. ZOOM, or... LINE... makes me wanna slam my head on the keyboard...
even the guys at work that have been using it for years curse it... i mean... HELLO... what about AUTOSAVE??? i've even had the computer crash when i was trying to save!!! meanwhile... if i use mechanical desktop, i can import dodgy SAT or IGES files, and then try doing operations like explode, and it'll just sit there chewing away until it's done... inventor on the other hand doesn't even offer similar operations...
and my final gripe... mechanical desktop allows you to work with 3DSOLIDS and PARTS... meaning you can manipulate solids SOOOOO much easier.... inventor only lets you do parts... and then not very well...
i know... really just had to get it out there for an audience to offer comments and suggestions... everyone at work just shrugs their shoulders... which is equally frustrating as the program itself...
What version of Inventor do you use? Can you post a typical file that I could look at for you? That could go a long way to helping you fix your issues. Personally I would never use mechanical desktop (which I feel is the nothing more than the illegitimate son of autocad, a stop gap measure on the way to a true parametric modeler) after having used a parametric modeler like Solidworks or Inventor. Have you ever had any real training? Read some of the posts by JD Mather, he usually posts a document he wrote for Autodesk University that is extremely helpful.
I use Inventor every day and I push the program hard, about once every 3 months if that It will crash it, I also save when I am happy with a model so If it did crash I am not too far away from were I was.
I feel your pain, Hickoz, especially about the contraints issue. I am working with Inventor right now, and it keeps giving me that warning, everytime I want to move, or copy, or manipulate something. I know that the constraints are there for some reason, but when I am zipping along on a part, I just want the program to do what I tell it to, and not sass back!
Everything else you post in this thread related to MDT tells me you don't have a clue how to use MDT. That's right, MDT. I'm saying you don't know how to use MDT properly either. At least from the clues you have included in you rant that is my perpective. I've taught a lot of MDT users to use Inventor. I used to do the same problems in MDT and Inventor to show them that they really didn't know MDT.
We run Inventor on hundreds, thats hundreds, of machines none of which are certified for the program (except for mine) and crashes are only occasional. I push the machines pretty hard. I suggest you have a consultant come in and set up your hardware/software correctly to solve the problem.
>i can import dodgy SAT or IGES files, and then try doing operations like explode, and it'll just sit there chewing away until it's done... inventor on the other hand doesn't even offer similar operations...
>and my final gripe... mechanical desktop allows you to work with 3DSOLIDS and PARTS... meaning you can manipulate solids SOOOOO much easier.... inventor only lets you do parts... and then not very well...
I used to start my design class by telling my students that MDT was my preferred program, but that we would take a look at Inventor. By the end of the semester I was eating those words. Inventor is by far a better program - no questions, hands down, forget about MDT.
I have had no formal training in Inventor and find it quite easy to use, especially compared to ProE, which I hate as much as you hate Inventor, but I must confess I have no formal training with it either. Like mentioned already, I think if you got a little formal training with Inventor, you will grow to like it.
the first problem i had was a modeling ability one, probably my lack of experience (i'll get to that in a sec). all the model is, is just a piece of pipe bent to share the shape of a Motor Grader cabin roof (it's a windscreen spray bar) getting the shape of the pipe is a walk in the park, the problem i had was making the holes in the pipe for the spray (inset, rhs). along the straight section (bottom of image) it's a simple case of rectangular pattern/array, thankfully however inventor will also allow me to pattern along any given path. problem is that the featurs patterned are position parallel to the original feature, i want it to pattern and be normal to the path (or surface of the pipe). i consulted the two top inventor drafters at work (atleast 5yrs experience each with inventor) they had no suggestions,
second problem was in the detail drawing for the part. and it was definatly no fault of my own, i can replicate the problem easily. i took an auxilary view of the end of the straight section so as to show the holes mentioned above. i then took a detail view of the end section just to cut out the whole length of the pipe. and then proceeded to dimension this end section. now... when i tried to move the original auxilary view, the arrow indicating the view direction would only move perpendicular to the direction i had originally intended. whilst the acctual view remained where i wanted it. so basically the auxillary view, and the auxillary view indicator arrow had become mis-aligned.
as far as what version we're running, it's Inventor 11 sp3... inventor 2008 is currently being put through it's paces by the IT department to make sure it's compaitble with our database systems. (lots of vba there)
MDT is definatly parametric, i'm not gonna argue there, the way we used it was to develop our 3dsolid models using ACAD functions and commands, before converting them to a PART model (for this reason i forget about it's parametric capabilities from time to time, don't get to use it anymore either ). this saved us HEAPS of time in constructing components, i'll accept no arguments on this part. we designed AND built an entire mining truck in a little over 8 months, with 2 drafters (me being the unexperienced n00b).
Training with inventor = i half read through the Autodesk training manual, and what i read taught me nothing i didn't already know (from solidworks), unfortunatly the training manual we have doesn't go into depth about documentation etc, and that's 90% of what we do.
as for the people who haven't learned to configure hardware/software? i have 3 documents (300+ pages total) from work which outline step by step all settings to be used on all workplace computers. right down to cross hair size in acad. there simply isn't any room for experimenting with configurations. though i'd appreciate any tips which may help.
as for the SAT, IGES etc comment, i was refering to the fact that inventor doesn't offer commands like explode... i'm well aware of the importing capabilities, and use them regularly. however once imported they are left as reference models, not used for construction of new parts etc.
and the comment about MDT being able to use 3DSOLIDS and PARTS... your making me feel a whole lot better there... i've no doubt of your advanced experience, but maybe your forgetting the basics? create a closed profile.... extrude it.... and you have a 3DSOLID... click new part, and select it as a base, and you have a PART... 3DSOLIDS were far more useful for manipulating and modifying, 'cause your completely unrestrained as to your actions... you can manipulate it in almost any concievable manner.
finally, MDT is faster to create parts and assemblies because you can do everything with out any external references, you can have a full blown assembly, before you even create a single part (using 3DSOLIDs)
> thankfully however inventor will also allow me to pattern along any given path. problem is that the featurs patterned are position parallel to the original feature, i want it to pattern and be normal to the path
Many people I run into who think they know MDT are actually using it like AutoCAD. They are not using the Base Orphan Reference Node (BORN) technique. They do not know how to create parametric workplanes. There files are all actually assembly files as that is the default. They do not know how to use the Catalog. They use AutoCAD move of parts rather than 3D assembly constraints. On and on.... they think they are faster by using it like AutoCAD and skipping the parametrics. Through years of observation and testing I have found that those who were the absolute fastest and best quatlity gurus never skipped fully constrained parametric 2D sketches and 3D assemblies.
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