The gears are :
Mark CD drive,
Sonic Frontier SFD2,
Matisse Reference pre-amp,
Marantz 7,
Marantz 9,
Audio Space 7 + 9 of 巴斯光年,
ProAc Respond 2.5,
Interconnect : Decade, AQ Diamond
Speaker cable : MIT MH850 CVT.
in a 150-200sq feet room.
This is the second time I visit Law.
I'm the last one to arrive.
The amps in work : Matisse & M9.
Some tubes have been replaced & the speaker placed foreword a bit.
There is significant improvement in openness, air, soundstage, high extension compare with the last audition.
Tim maybe able to elaborate more about the change with tube replacement.
Then, the M9 is switched to ultra-linear mode. Felix prefer this mode than triode mode. He should able to tell more about this.
The Matisse Reference is then replaced by the M7.
Sound more balanced but not as beautiful as Matisse, the lower bass is much less.
Interestingly, replace the TFK ECC803s M7 of Andy Law with the TFK ECC803s of Tim, make a great improvement of the air, overtone, &
beautiful mid. Both ECC803s look identical in structure, but we can't tell the "age" of usage of these tubes by inspection.
Then, come the AS 7 + 9 with all cheap tubes.
Obviously loss in every aspect compare with M7 + M9.
Replacing two U7 & 1 X7 of AS 7 + 9 make a great improvement.
Some more tubes are going to be replaced........., however, as I have to leave at this juncture, I will stop here & wait for other
participants to post their observation in more detail & complete the stories of the event held in Andy Law & 巴斯光年's place
today.
My suggestion to Andy Law : as the use of average grade extension plug for the ultra-expensive power cable is really unacceptable,
please consider using better AC cord directly from AC main to several US style wall sockets. This is much less than the cost of any
cable you have & that will make all your expensive cable more worthwhile.
Lee HC
Mark Levinson No.31 CD Transport.
Transport->DAC : NBS Professional AES/EBU
> Sonic Frontier SFD2,
Sonic Frontier Processor 3
DAC->Pre : TaraLabs Decade RCA
> Matisse Reference pre-amp,
> Marantz 7,
Pre->Power : MIT MI-350CVT Reference RCA
For audio space 7->9 : AQ Diamond.
> Marantz 9,
> Audio Space 7 + 9 of 巴斯光年,
Speaker cable : MIT MH-850CVT bi-wire.
> ProAc Respond 2.5,
> Interconnect : Decade, AQ Diamond
> Speaker cable : MIT MH850 CVT.
> in a 150-200sq feet room.
>
Power cords, all Aural Symphonics Missing Link Cubed Gen III.
For Audio Space 7, looks like Aural Symphonics Missing Link something
(forgot)
For Audio Space 9, looks like self made AQ AC power cord.
Andy Law's system all staying on Solid steel racks with wooden boards
replaced by granite boards.
Audio Space 7+9 lying on the carpet. Later supported by some unknown
spikes.
> This is the second time I visit Law.
> I'm the last one to arrive.
> The amps in work : Matisse & M9.
> Some tubes have been replaced & the speaker placed foreword a bit.
> There is significant improvement in openness, air, soundstage, high extension compare with the last audition.
> Tim maybe able to elaborate more about the change with tube replacement.
>
> Then, the M9 is switched to ultra-linear mode. Felix prefer this mode than triode mode. He should able to tell more about this.
>
Triode mode cannot presents the ups and downs of music as clear as
Pentode (ultralinear) mode. The dynamics is just not there.
But the smooth mid and high is sacrificed in Pentode mode.
I prefer the pentode mode if I have to choose, but I would not choose
this setup if question is open.
> The Matisse Reference is then replaced by the M7.
> Sound more balanced but not as beautiful as Matisse, the lower bass is much less.
> Interestingly, replace the TFK ECC803s M7 of Andy Law with the TFK ECC803s of Tim, make a great improvement of the air, overtone, &
> beautiful mid. Both ECC803s look identical in structure, but we can't tell the "age" of usage of these tubes by inspection.
>
Yes, very weird.
> Then, come the AS 7 + 9 with all cheap tubes.
> Obviously loss in every aspect compare with M7 + M9.
> Replacing two U7 & 1 X7 of AS 7 + 9 make a great improvement.
> Some more tubes are going to be replaced........., however, as I have to leave at this juncture, I will stop here & wait for other
> participants to post their observation in more detail & complete the stories of the event held in Andy Law & 巴斯光年's place
> today.
>
I'll let someone else elaborate on this.
> My suggestion to Andy Law : as the use of average grade extension plug for the ultra-expensive power cable is really unacceptable,
> please consider using better AC cord directly from AC main to several US style wall sockets. This is much less than the cost of any
> cable you have & that will make all your expensive cable more worthwhile.
>
It is one of the way. AS ML Cubed G3 lacks dynamics, may be a better
power cord can make the triode mode much better.
Felix
>
>This afternoon, we have a HiFi gathering in Andy Law's place.
>
>The gears are :
>Mark CD drive,
ML31 - top model from ML
>Sonic Frontier SFD2,
That should be the new SF Processor 3 - top model from SF and Stereophile
Class A, Sovtek 6922 have been replaced by late gen Siemens CCa.
>Matisse Reference pre-amp,
>Marantz 7,
>Marantz 9,
>Audio Space 7 + 9 of 巴斯光年,
>ProAc Respond 2.5,
>Interconnect : Decade, AQ Diamond
>Speaker cable : MIT MH850 CVT.
>in a 150-200sq feet room.
>
>This is the second time I visit Law.
>I'm the last one to arrive.
>The amps in work : Matisse & M9.
>Some tubes have been replaced & the speaker placed foreword a bit.
>There is significant improvement in openness, air, soundstage, high
extension compare with the last audition.
>Tim maybe able to elaborate more about the change with tube replacement.
>
The Matisee Reference was originally installed with TFK 801S with Mullard
long plate square getter 12AX7, we have tried my Mullard M8162 gold pin,
Andy's Mullard sq getter half plate 12AT7 and my TFK 803S. I must say I like
the 803S with the Mullards better. That was the combination that the gang
has been listening to today.
But the most dramatic improvement, IMO, was the replacement of the V1 of M9
from Andy's late gen Siemens CCa to my early gen CCa. The sound open up
tremendously in terms of frequency range and space. That was even more so
compare to the same Siemens CCa in the SFCD-1 in Capt Lo's system.
>Then, the M9 is switched to ultra-linear mode. Felix prefer this mode than
triode mode. He should able to tell more about this.
>
There is clearly a compromise, IMO, the UL mode has far more dynamic and the
presentation is more lively. But this is achieved with a considerable
reduction in smoothness. Luckly the M9 has the switch on the front plate so
user can switch to alternate mode for particular song.
>The Matisse Reference is then replaced by the M7.
>Sound more balanced but not as beautiful as Matisse, the lower bass is much
less.
>Interestingly, replace the TFK ECC803s M7 of Andy Law with the TFK ECC803s
of Tim, make a great improvement of the air, overtone, &
>beautiful mid. Both ECC803s look identical in structure, but we can't tell
the "age" of usage of these tubes by inspection.
>
This was the most usual thing I encounter in my experience with tubes. The
difference is very substantial and is almost the degree of difference
between the TFK ECC83 and ECC803S. Andy's TFK 803S looks new (but he has
actually burn it in for over 200 hrs) and is exactly the same as mine (mine
has only around 100 hrs operation) in terms of internal structure (double
support clear glass version). This is very important for those who are
thinking about buying this Hk$3,600 a piece tube. That is NO WAY that one
can tell the difference from physical inspection.
Maybe I will take my TV-7 tube tester to Andy's place next time to find out
if the tube has proper electrical operation.
>Then, come the AS 7 + 9 with all cheap tubes.
>Obviously loss in every aspect compare with M7 + M9.
>Replacing two U7 & 1 X7 of AS 7 + 9 make a great improvement.
>Some more tubes are going to be replaced........., however, as I have to
leave at this juncture, I will stop here & wait for other
>participants to post their observation in more detail & complete the
stories of the event held in Andy Law & 巴斯光年's place
>today.
>
I must say I have very good impression of the AS 7+9. First of all, even
with "shit" Chinese tubes, it can drive the Proac 2.5 quite well. IMO it has
actually done a better job that the SF Power 2 + Line 1, which is over 3
times its price.
The installation of HP/Amperex 7316 in the output buffer of the AS 7 improve
the sound a great deal, to a lesser degree by also significant is the input
buffer 12AX7 of the AS9. I think Buzz should just focus on the 12AX7 and
12AT7 and forget about the EL34. 8 x vinatge EL34 is a huge investment
compare to the cost of AS 7+9.
>My suggestion to Andy Law : as the use of average grade extension plug for
the ultra-expensive power cable is really unacceptable,
>please consider using better AC cord directly from AC main to several US
style wall sockets. This is much less than the cost of any
>cable you have & that will make all your expensive cable more worthwhile.
>
My suggestion to Andy is to invest in a good tube tester asap. The Chinese
tube tester cannot test mutual conductance. You should get a good tester
that can test dynamic mutual conductance. (Tube buyer beware : because to
this very reason, most local tube shop only offer tube testing with testers
that CANNOT test mutual conductance. And some deliberately set the zero
calibration higher so that even poor tubes test good). The latest Audiophile
has good coverage of tube testers and you should read them. AVO and the
higher B&K model will be good. Try order from UK as you already familiar
with getting tubes from there.
Apart from the tubes, I am not sure if the speaker position is optimal right
now. And I somehow do not think the Proac 2.5 is a perfect match for the
M7+9. This is just my personal view.
Happy tube fever!
Tim
A correction, the latest top model should be 31.5.
Felix
> >in a 150-200sq feet room.
10' x 17' 9" only. Far from ideal.
> The Matisee Reference was originally installed with TFK 801S with Mullard
> long plate square getter 12AX7, we have tried my Mullard M8162 gold pin,
> Andy's Mullard sq getter half plate 12AT7 and my TFK 803S. I must say I like
> the 803S with the Mullards better. That was the combination that the gang
> has been listening to today.
Agreed.
> But the most dramatic improvement, IMO, was the replacement of the V1 of M9
> from Andy's late gen Siemens CCa to my early gen CCa. The sound open up
> tremendously in terms of frequency range and space. That was even more so
> compare to the same Siemens CCa in the SFCD-1 in Capt Lo's system.
Agreed. What is the price of you CCa? Can it be brought nowadays and Where?
> Maybe I will take my TV-7 tube tester to Andy's place next time to find out
> if the tube has proper electrical operation.
Yes, please. Bring along a set of eight precious EL34 as well. OK?
> >My suggestion to Andy Law : as the use of average grade extension plug for
> the ultra-expensive power cable is really unacceptable,
> >please consider using better AC cord directly from AC main to several US
> style wall sockets. This is much less than the cost of any
> >cable you have & that will make all your expensive cable more worthwhile.
> >
Agreed. But I am quite lazy these days.
> My suggestion to Andy is to invest in a good tube tester asap. The Chinese
> tube tester cannot test mutual conductance. You should get a good tester
> that can test dynamic mutual conductance. (Tube buyer beware : because to
> this very reason, most local tube shop only offer tube testing with testers
> that CANNOT test mutual conductance. And some deliberately set the zero
> calibration higher so that even poor tubes test good). The latest Audiophile
> has good coverage of tube testers and you should read them. AVO and the
> higher B&K model will be good. Try order from UK as you already familiar
> with getting tubes from there.
I am quite scare in buy an old tubes tester overseas. The operation manual
could be unavaialable or incomplete. If there is any problem, it would be a
great trouble to solve it. It just like 'Buying a cow with a mountain in
between'. Do you know anybody have a good tube tester for sale in Hong Kong?
> Apart from the tubes, I am not sure if the speaker position is optimal right
> now. And I somehow do not think the Proac 2.5 is a perfect match for the
> M7+9. This is just my personal view.
I bought the Proac 2.5 in March this year, brand new. I have been moving them
to find a optimal location to place it in the past few months. The present
location is just one of the acceptable one. Better location has yet to be
find.
Andy Law
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
> For Audio Space 7, looks like Aural Symphonics Missing Link something
> (forgot)
Yes. It was missing link.
> For Audio Space 9, looks like self made AQ AC power cord.
>
It were self-made power cable by using Cardas twin-link speaker cable. I
made them in or about 1993. It were out-dated now. It were just better than
ordinary electric cable.
> Audio Space 7+9 lying on the carpet. Later supported by some unknown
> spikes.
The 7 was supported by local wood spikes and the 9 were supported by Ensemble
spikes.
>
> > This is the second time I visit Law.
> > I'm the last one to arrive.
> > The amps in work : Matisse & M9.
> > Some tubes have been replaced & the speaker placed foreword a bit.
> > There is significant improvement in openness, air, soundstage, high extension compare with the last audition.
Part of the reason is because I had put the M7 and M9 on 24-hour a day burned
in by using a cheap CD player for 12 days. Thanks the cool weather recently
to enable me to do so.
> Triode mode cannot presents the ups and downs of music as clear as
> Pentode (ultralinear) mode. The dynamics is just not there.
>
> But the smooth mid and high is sacrificed in Pentode mode.
>
> I prefer the pentode mode if I have to choose, but I would not choose
> this setup if question is open.
It was the first time for me to listen to my M9 in ultralinear mode
operation. The difference between triode mode and ultralinear mode was quite
obvious. After your guys left, I took a serious comparison of triode mode and
ultralinear mode a few times. Both had it strengths and weaknesses. Probably
I have to switch to the appropriate mode when listening to certain type of
music. It is a fun and also it is a trouble. There is no perfect amp, isn't
it?
> > The Matisse Reference is then replaced by the M7.
> > Sound more balanced but not as beautiful as Matisse, the lower bass is much less.
I have burned in the M7 24-hours a day for 4 weeks. I intend to let it burn
in for 2-3 months. Then let see how big improment can be achieved. the
Matisse Reference was bought in May this year, brand new. It had been burn-in
for about 1500 hours.
> > Interestingly, replace the TFK ECC803s M7 of Andy Law with the TFK ECC803s of Tim, make a great improvement of the air, overtone, &
> > beautiful mid. Both ECC803s look identical in structure, but we can't tell the "age" of usage of these tubes by inspection.
> >
>
> Yes, very weird.
I bought it from a tube shop in Hong Kong. Three years ago I bought a lot of
rubbish tubes from a famous bad tube shop in Aplius Street. Did I buy another
used/rubblish tube in Hong Kong tube shop again? I don't know. But I had lost
my confidence in buying tubes in Hong Kong, especially those rare and
expensive one.
> > Then, come the AS 7 + 9 with all cheap tubes.
> > Obviously loss in every aspect compare with M7 + M9.
The sound of AS 7 + 9 was not bad. If one can accept it were made in China
and the low resale value (I guess), then the AS 7+ 9 still worth to possess.
The finishing of them are of a high stardard.
> > Replacing two U7 & 1 X7 of AS 7 + 9 make a great improvement.
Agreed.
> > My suggestion to Andy Law : as the use of average grade extension plug for the ultra-expensive power cable is really unacceptable,
> > please consider using better AC cord directly from AC main to several US style wall sockets. This is much less than the cost of any
> > cable you have & that will make all your expensive cable more worthwhile.
> >
Agreed. But I am quite lazy these days.
> It is one of the way. AS ML Cubed G3 lacks dynamics, may be a better
> power cord can make the triode mode much better.
>
May be.
Let me thanks again for inviting us to your loverly "HiFI Den". It is nice
to know someone alomost as crazy as I am buying tubes.
>> But the most dramatic improvement, IMO, was the replacement of the V1 of
M9
>> from Andy's late gen Siemens CCa to my early gen CCa. The sound open up
>> tremendously in terms of frequency range and space. That was even more so
>> compare to the same Siemens CCa in the SFCD-1 in Capt Lo's system.
>
>Agreed. What is the price of you CCa? Can it be brought nowadays and
Where?
>
The earliest version of Siemens CCa are extremely difficult to find. They
usually only last a few "hours" when appear on the shelf on local tube
shops. It is definitely of the "instant-dead-under-the-sun" type. And you
can forget about buying this from overseas. I tried a few times with photo
and jpg sent for order and got the WRONG version every time. It was sold at
XX Shan last year for HK$1,600 each.
There is also the Amperex/Mullard/Valvo Holland made "pinched waist" E88CC
which is almost as good. It is actually easier to get than the Siemens CCa.
There are also the HK$1,500 GEC CV2482 from Po Shui and TFK E188CC which are
in the same league as the Siemens CCa.
>> Maybe I will take my TV-7 tube tester to Andy's place next time to find
out
>> if the tube has proper electrical operation.
>
>Yes, please. Bring along a set of eight precious EL34 as well. OK?
>
I will only used the vinatge EL34 in single-end mode. I consider it a waste
to use them on the M9. Having said that, I believe the Canadian Marconi
Dutch made double D-getter EL34 8B are about the best EL34 for the 8B. Let
us try the 8B next time. I am keen to try my LS3/5a in your setting as well.
>
>> >My suggestion to Andy Law : as the use of average grade extension plug
for
>> the ultra-expensive power cable is really unacceptable,
>> >please consider using better AC cord directly from AC main to several US
>> style wall sockets. This is much less than the cost of any
>> >cable you have & that will make all your expensive cable more
worthwhile.
>> >
>
>Agreed. But I am quite lazy these days.
>
>
>> My suggestion to Andy is to invest in a good tube tester asap. The
Chinese
>> tube tester cannot test mutual conductance. You should get a good tester
>> that can test dynamic mutual conductance. (Tube buyer beware : because
to
>> this very reason, most local tube shop only offer tube testing with
testers
>> that CANNOT test mutual conductance. And some deliberately set the zero
>> calibration higher so that even poor tubes test good). The latest
Audiophile
>> has good coverage of tube testers and you should read them. AVO and the
>> higher B&K model will be good. Try order from UK as you already familiar
>> with getting tubes from there.
>
>I am quite scare in buy an old tubes tester overseas. The operation manual
>could be unavaialable or incomplete. If there is any problem, it would be a
>great trouble to solve it. It just like 'Buying a cow with a mountain in
>between'. Do you know anybody have a good tube tester for sale in Hong
Kong?
>
There is, of course, a risk related to buying tube tester from overseas. But
it is the same case for tubes. If you do not trust the local tube shops for
the tubes they sell, there is no reason to trust them for the tube testers.
I got both of my tube testers from US and they work great. But I actually
think UK testers are superior.
Tube tester is not expensive consider the amount f money you have spent on
your tubes. It is a must-have.
>> Apart from the tubes, I am not sure if the speaker position is optimal
right
>> now. And I somehow do not think the Proac 2.5 is a perfect match for the
>> M7+9. This is just my personal view.
>
The best sound I have ever heard from the Proac 2.5 was actually in a
Causeway Bay showroom driven by the BAT VK-60 with its matching pre-amp.
Unbelievable transparency and totally grain-less. You really should listen
to that amp with the Proac 2.5.
Tim
>
> Let me thanks again for inviting us to your loverly "HiFI Den". It is nice
> to know someone alomost as crazy as I am buying tubes.
>
Your are welcomed. I am just a beginner in tube collecting, and most of the
tube I have are just ordinary NOS. Normally I would but a pair of tubes for
testing. If the sound is good, I then buy 6 or 12 for matching pair myself.
Because of the large quantity, that's is why most of the my tube collections
are not expensive one.
> The earliest version of Siemens CCa are extremely difficult to find. They
> usually only last a few "hours" when appear on the shelf on local tube
> shops. It is definitely of the "instant-dead-under-the-sun" type. And you
> can forget about buying this from overseas. I tried a few times with photo
> and jpg sent for order and got the WRONG version every time. It was sold at
> XX Shan last year for HK$1,600 each.
>
> There is also the Amperex/Mullard/Valvo Holland made "pinched waist" E88CC
> which is almost as good. It is actually easier to get than the Siemens CCa.
> There are also the HK$1,500 GEC CV2482 from Po Shui and TFK E188CC which are
> in the same league as the Siemens CCa.
I will not buy tubes from XX Shan any more. I have 4 TFK E188CC. Since those
earliest Siemens CCa are so scare and expensive, we need to dig out some good
sounding tubes at a lower price.
>
> I will only used the vinatge EL34 in single-end mode. I consider it a waste
> to use them on the M9. Having said that, I believe the Canadian Marconi
> Dutch made double D-getter EL34 8B are about the best EL34 for the 8B. Let
> us try the 8B next time. I am keen to try my LS3/5a in your setting as well.
>
My M8 is still under 24-hours a day burn-in. Let we have another gathering
one month later. My Dutch made double D-getter EL 34 had been burn-in for 160
hours and I think it should be readily for serious audition. I have used a
pair of KEF 3/5A piano in my present place before. At that time I used LS7 +
MV55 to push them. The sound is good but lack of bass extension. Anyway,
please bring along your 3/5A next time. Please remember to bring along the
stands as well.
>
> There is, of course, a risk related to buying tube tester from overseas. But
> it is the same case for tubes. If you do not trust the local tube shops for
> the tubes they sell, there is no reason to trust them for the tube testers.
> I got both of my tube testers from US and they work great. But I actually
> think UK testers are superior.
>
> Tube tester is not expensive consider the amount f money you have spent on
> your tubes. It is a must-have.
Noted. I am considering to buy a power tubes matcher from USA. It can plug in
4 power tubes on the tester in one time. It can test for plate current (Ip)
and transconductance (Gm). It cost about $500-US. The only drawback is the
tester could not be used for testing small tubes. Any comment? I am
considering to place my order today or tomorrow. Please comment a.s.a.p. See
www. aa.net/maxitest
> The best sound I have ever heard from the Proac 2.5 was actually in a
> Causeway Bay showroom driven by the BAT VK-60 with its matching pre-amp.
> Unbelievable transparency and totally grain-less. You really should listen
> to that amp with the Proac 2.5.
>
Noted
Andy Law.
I must say I hold very different view from you on tube matching.
First of all, I believe matching of small signal tubes is not very important
compare to the quality of the tube itself, except in a few very complex
circuits (differential circuit/balanced operation ?) such as SP-11 or CAT.
Matched shit tubes are still shit tubes, and sound far worse than even
unmatched vinatge NOS tubes. And for real RR grade tubes, you will be lucky
to find a pair with similar structure. To found a matched RR grade tubes are
particularly impossible.
For output tube, matching should be more impossible particular for those amp
that provide no or limited bias adjustment. But again, I also found
unmatched, even mixed brand vinatge NOS to sound better than well matched
cheap tubes.
>
>I will not buy tubes from XX Shan any more. I have 4 TFK E188CC. Since
those
>earliest Siemens CCa are so scare and expensive, we need to dig out some
good
>sounding tubes at a lower price.
>
I have tried for the last 3 years but after buying more than 400 tubes, I
can only found shit tubes at a high price but no great tube at a low price.
Unless, of course, that you build your own DIY amp and use uncommon tubes,
which is a path that many of my friends has already assumed.
>My M8 is still under 24-hours a day burn-in. Let we have another gathering
>one month later. My Dutch made double D-getter EL 34 had been burn-in for
160
>hours and I think it should be readily for serious audition.
Next time, please please please let me burn in the Dutch D-getter EL34 or
TFK 803Sfor you. I don't mind listen to them even when they are not at their
optimal.
>>
>> There is, of course, a risk related to buying tube tester from overseas.
But
>> it is the same case for tubes. If you do not trust the local tube shops
for
>> the tubes they sell, there is no reason to trust them for the tube
testers.
>> I got both of my tube testers from US and they work great. But I actually
>> think UK testers are superior.
>>
>> Tube tester is not expensive consider the amount f money you have spent
on
>> your tubes. It is a must-have.
>
>
>Noted. I am considering to buy a power tubes matcher from USA. It can plug
in
>4 power tubes on the tester in one time. It can test for plate current (Ip)
>and transconductance (Gm). It cost about $500-US. The only drawback is the
>tester could not be used for testing small tubes. Any comment? I am
>considering to place my order today or tomorrow. Please comment a.s.a.p.
See
>www. aa.net/maxitest
>
Is this the same tester featured on this month's VTV? With digital display,
right? Yes, I think this is a very convinent tool and easy to use. But it
can only test 6L6 , 6V6, EL34, 6550 family of tubes.
If you are thinking of buying more EL34, it should be a good buy.
Tim
> I must say I hold very different view from you on tube matching.
>
> First of all, I believe matching of small signal tubes is not very important
> compare to the quality of the tube itself, except in a few very complex
> circuits (differential circuit/balanced operation ?) such as SP-11 or CAT.
> Matched shit tubes are still shit tubes, and sound far worse than even
> unmatched vinatge NOS tubes. And for real RR grade tubes, you will be lucky
> to find a pair with similar structure. To found a matched RR grade tubes are
> particularly impossible.
Agreed. That is part of the reason why I bought Matisse Reference rather than
Matisse Fantasy. But there is no doubt that a pair of matched tubes is better
than unmatched. Probably we can't hear the difference, at least
psychologically we would feel better, visually look better.
I am not very keen to find the best tube. It is because normally it would not
be readily available. If available, the price could be very high and may not
be affordable. If affordable, just because it is so scarce and valuable, it
would make me not willing to use it. I don't like to have that kind of
feeling. I would feel suffering rather than enjoying. The most important
things is, I don't like paying money to buy thing, if I have a feeling that I
can get it because of the mercy of the seller. This is one of my rather
strange characters.
> For output tube, matching should be more impossible particular for those amp
> that provide no or limited bias adjustment. But again, I also found
> unmatched, even mixed brand vinatge NOS to sound better than well matched
> cheap tubes.
>
Quite true. But a matched set undoubtedly would work better and sound better.
> >I will not buy tubes from XX Shan any more. I have 4 TFK E188CC. Since
> those
> >earliest Siemens CCa are so scare and expensive, we need to dig out some
> good
> >sounding tubes at a lower price.
> >
>
> I have tried for the last 3 years but after buying more than 400 tubes, I
> can only found shit tubes at a high price but no great tube at a low price.
> Unless, of course, that you build your own DIY amp and use uncommon tubes,
> which is a path that many of my friends has already assumed.
>
My view is don't go to the two extremities. There are many good tubes,
although not the best, in between, and easier to get, right?
> >My M8 is still under 24-hours a day burn-in. Let we have another gathering
> >one month later. My Dutch made double D-getter EL 34 had been burn-in for
> 160
> >hours and I think it should be readily for serious audition.
>
> Next time, please please please let me burn in the Dutch D-getter EL34 or
> TFK 803Sfor you. I don't mind listen to them even when they are not at their
> optimal.
>
Looking and feeling the tubes getting mature is just like bring up and
looking my children growing up. It would be better for me to do it, thanks.
Ha Ha....
> >> There is, of course, a risk related to buying tube tester from overseas.
> But
> >> it is the same case for tubes. If you do not trust the local tube shops
> for
> >> the tubes they sell, there is no reason to trust them for the tube
> testers.
> >> I got both of my tube testers from US and they work great. But I actually
> >> think UK testers are superior.
> >>
> >> Tube tester is not expensive consider the amount f money you have spent
> on
> >> your tubes. It is a must-have.
> >
> >
> >Noted. I am considering to buy a power tubes matcher from USA. It can plug
> in
> >4 power tubes on the tester in one time. It can test for plate current (Ip)
> >and transconductance (Gm). It cost about $500-US. The only drawback is the
> >tester could not be used for testing small tubes. Any comment? I am
> >considering to place my order today or tomorrow. Please comment a.s.a.p.
> See
> >www. aa.net/maxitest
> >
>
> Is this the same tester featured on this month's VTV? With digital display,
> right? Yes, I think this is a very convinent tool and easy to use. But it
> can only test 6L6 , 6V6, EL34, 6550 family of tubes.
>
> If you are thinking of buying more EL34, it should be a good buy.
>
Yes. I find it in the VTV magazine when I went to Joe Pang's home last
Saturday. Using an adaptor, it could test other tubes like 845. I will place
my order today. When I get it, I am happy to do test and matching tubes for
friends in this forum.
and...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<754le7$86n$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
> I am not very keen to find the best tube. It is because normally it would
not
> be readily available. If available, the price could be very high and may
not
> be affordable. If affordable, just because it is so scarce and valuable,
it
> would make me not willing to use it. I don't like to have that kind of
> feeling. I would feel suffering rather than enjoying. The most important
> things is, I don't like paying money to buy thing, if I have a feeling
that I
> can get it because of the mercy of the seller. This is one of my rather
> strange characters.
With the present economic climate, I would have the feel like helping the
seller when I spend $ to buy the expensive tube. :-)
>
> My view is don't go to the two extremities. There are many good tubes,
> although not the best, in between, and easier to get, right?
This is quite right.
In fact, using the most expensive tube in the gears doesn't always produce
the sound for liking of the owner.
>
> Looking and feeling the tubes getting mature is just like bring up and
> looking my children growing up. It would be better for me to do it,
thanks.
> Ha Ha....
It isn't an easy job for you as you bought a large number of the same tube
at one time.
Any way, just call me when you feel the burden. I guarantee my tender
loving care to your precious tube. :-)
>
> Yes. I find it in the VTV magazine when I went to Joe Pang's home last
> Saturday. Using an adaptor, it could test other tubes like 845. I will
place
> my order today. When I get it, I am happy to do test and matching tubes
for
> friends in this forum.
I subscribe first. Thanks, Andy.
Lee HC
Agreed. But physical unmatched tubes cannot be matched electromically.
>I am not very keen to find the best tube. It is because normally it would
not
>be readily available. If available, the price could be very high and may
not
>be affordable. If affordable, just because it is so scarce and valuable, it
>would make me not willing to use it. I don't like to have that kind of
>feeling. I would feel suffering rather than enjoying. The most important
>things is, I don't like paying money to buy thing, if I have a feeling that
I
>can get it because of the mercy of the seller. This is one of my rather
>strange characters.
>
I have also been cheated by dishonest tube seller many times and share the
exact feeling. But if one is willing to pay top dollar for wire/interconnect
etc. Shit tubes should not be allowed in the system.
>
>> For output tube, matching should be more impossible particular for those
amp
>> that provide no or limited bias adjustment. But again, I also found
>> unmatched, even mixed brand vinatge NOS to sound better than well matched
>> cheap tubes.
>>
>
>Quite true. But a matched set undoubtedly would work better and sound
better.
>
>
>> >I will not buy tubes from XX Shan any more. I have 4 TFK E188CC. Since
>> those
>> >earliest Siemens CCa are so scare and expensive, we need to dig out some
>> good
>> >sounding tubes at a lower price.
>> >
>>
>> I have tried for the last 3 years but after buying more than 400 tubes, I
>> can only found shit tubes at a high price but no great tube at a low
price.
>> Unless, of course, that you build your own DIY amp and use uncommon
tubes,
>> which is a path that many of my friends has already assumed.
>>
>
>My view is don't go to the two extremities. There are many good tubes,
>although not the best, in between, and easier to get, right?
>
This a great topic for debate. But my feeling is that there is really no
in-between. As a matter of fact, the mid-price tubes are exactly the tubes
that I have regretted the most of buying them. And they are also the type of
tubes that tube shops are most keen to sell to you.
My reasoning is simple. The mid-price "good" tubes only make marginal
improvement to the sound. In the case of 6DJ8/6922, most mid-price tubes may
not be even better than the stock Sovtek 6922! To buy any such tubes is a
waste of money IMO. (And I have wasted a lot of money)
For the tubes that make significant improvement, they are ALWAYS expensive.
For tubes that make a very significant improvement, they are VERY expensive.
This is particularly true for 6922. Not as much for 12AX7 as the Chinese and
Ei 12AX7 are exceptionally bad!
I actually have many mid price tubes for sale. Any interest here?
>
>> >My M8 is still under 24-hours a day burn-in. Let we have another
gathering
>> >one month later. My Dutch made double D-getter EL 34 had been burn-in
for
>> 160
>> >hours and I think it should be readily for serious audition.
>>
>> Next time, please please please let me burn in the Dutch D-getter EL34 or
>> TFK 803Sfor you. I don't mind listen to them even when they are not at
their
>> optimal.
>>
>
>Looking and feeling the tubes getting mature is just like bring up and
>looking my children growing up. It would be better for me to do it, thanks.
>Ha Ha....
>
>
>Yes. I find it in the VTV magazine when I went to Joe Pang's home last
>Saturday. Using an adaptor, it could test other tubes like 845. I will
place
>my order today. When I get it, I am happy to do test and matching tubes for
>friends in this forum.
>
I don't think there is a adaptor planned for 845. There is adaptor available
for EL84 and planned adaptor for 12AX7/U7/T7. If the latter is available, I
want to buy one of these myself.
Will be keen to try this when it arrives.
Tim
> Agreed. But physical unmatched tubes cannot be matched electromically.
Yes. There was no point to match two tubes electronically which are
different in appearance and construction.
> I have also been cheated by dishonest tube seller many times and share the
> exact feeling. But if one is willing to pay top dollar for wire/interconnect
> etc. Shit tubes should not be allowed in the system.
Yes. But there are still many good tubes which are between the best and the
worst.
> This a great topic for debate. But my feeling is that there is really no
> in-between. As a matter of fact, the mid-price tubes are exactly the tubes
> that I have regretted the most of buying them. And they are also the type of
> tubes that tube shops are most keen to sell to you.
>
> My reasoning is simple. The mid-price "good" tubes only make marginal
> improvement to the sound. In the case of 6DJ8/6922, most mid-price tubes may
> not be even better than the stock Sovtek 6922! To buy any such tubes is a
> waste of money IMO. (And I have wasted a lot of money)
>
> For the tubes that make significant improvement, they are ALWAYS expensive.
> For tubes that make a very significant improvement, they are VERY expensive.
>
> This is particularly true for 6922. Not as much for 12AX7 as the Chinese and
> Ei 12AX7 are exceptionally bad!
There must be a place between the best and the worst. I would rate from the
best to the worst in the following simple grades:-
Best - Very Good - Good - Fair - Poor - Worst.
> I actually have many mid price tubes for sale. Any interest here?
Please bring alone to my place next time to let us have an audition test.
> I don't think there is a adaptor planned for 845. There is adaptor available
> for EL84 and planned adaptor for 12AX7/U7/T7. If the latter is available, I
> want to buy one of these myself.
I have doubt too. Because the operation voltage for 845 is around 1000V and
the ordinary power tubes just around 450V. Anyway it doesn't annoy me since
I have made up my mind to use EL34 in the rest of my life, that is what I
told my wife but she did not believe.
> Will be keen to try this when it arrives.
>
I was told that it would be availbale in about 3 weeks since USA people are
in holiday mood and some are already on holiday.
Andy Law
> Yes. But there are still many good tubes which are between the best and the
> worst.
>
> > This a great topic for debate. But my feeling is that there is really no
> > in-between. As a matter of fact, the mid-price tubes are exactly the tubes
> > that I have regretted the most of buying them. And they are also the type
of
> > tubes that tube shops are most keen to sell to you.
> >
> > My reasoning is simple. The mid-price "good" tubes only make marginal
> > improvement to the sound. In the case of 6DJ8/6922, most mid-price tubes
may
> > not be even better than the stock Sovtek 6922! To buy any such tubes is a
> > waste of money IMO. (And I have wasted a lot of money)
> >
> > For the tubes that make significant improvement, they are ALWAYS expensive.
> > For tubes that make a very significant improvement, they are VERY
expensive.
> >
> > This is particularly true for 6922. Not as much for 12AX7 as the Chinese
and
> > Ei 12AX7 are exceptionally bad!
>
> There must be a place between the best and the worst. I would rate from the
> best to the worst in the following simple grades:-
>
> Best - Very Good - Good - Fair - Poor - Worst.
>
But what if the stock tube is "Good" already? This is all relative, right?
Let us take the case of 6922 again, I have tried maybe all available 6DJ8/6922
in the market. IMO, any tubes cheaper than the Hk$800-1000 range is not
"better" than the Sovtek 6922, they just sound different.
Some, such as the famous US JAN 6922 that Spring Yeung sells are actually
worse than the black top Sovtek IMHO. You have to get tubes like TFK E88CC or
Amperex/Valvo D-getter E88CC to beat the Sovtek in every/most aspect. And
they are all selling at around the HK$1k each mark. And the early Siemens CCa
is better than both of these. So, with your ranking, stock Sovtek 6922 will
be "Good", TFK E88CC will be "V.Good" and Siemens CCa will be the best.
Is there any "V.Good" 6922 that is cheap? Yes, there is, like the Chinese made
"T" grade 6N11. Can you find this tube? No, not anywhere in the world or most
parts of China. They are only available to a few labs in China and not for
sale.
So in my experience, "V.Good" 6922 that is both inexpensive and readily
available does not exist. It is a very efficient market indeed, at least as
far as the seller is concerned.
Yes, I got many many mid-price tubes for sale. But no listening test because
there is no point to carry out such a test. You now understand why John said I
am the worst tube seller in this world and why I said honest tube seller is a
contradiction in terms.
Having said all this, there is actually a way that you can get great tube at
a cheap price. And this is very similar to what you have been doing. I am
convinced that apart from construction, tube selection is also very very
important to tube quality. In other words, although well-burn-in shit tube is
still shit, well-matched shit tube is still shit, well-selected shit tube may
not be shit at all !!! Example are the Mullard 10M series, Gold Aero Platinum
and the Chinese "T" grade tubes. With very tight selection criterion, you can
actually get some of the best tubes in the world from a pool of shit tubes.
So if you have a sophicated tube tester, can buy a large amount of cheap
tubes (i.e. in the hundreds) and is able to sell or return the left-over, you
can get great tubes at a cheap price. Come to think about that, maybe that is
exactly what Spring Yeung have been doing.
Tim
and...@my-dejanews.com 撰寫於文章 <75817j$3a2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Tim,
>
>I have doubt too. Because the operation voltage for 845 is around 1000V and
>the ordinary power tubes just around 450V. Anyway it doesn't annoy me since
>I have made up my mind to use EL34 in the rest of my life, that is what I
>told my wife but she did not believe.
Actually, the operating voltage for 845 could reach 1250V, giving power
output in Class A undistorted at 24W single-ended.
Regarding using EL34 for the rest of your life...I don't buy it! Probably
haven't listened to any good triode push-pull amps lately, huh? Otherwise,
why would you just wanna stick with EL34?
Friend,
>
> Actually, the operating voltage for 845 could reach 1250V, giving power
> output in Class A undistorted at 24W single-ended.
>
> Regarding using EL34 for the rest of your life...I don't buy it! Probably
> haven't listened to any good triode push-pull amps lately, huh? Otherwise,
> why would you just wanna stick with EL34?
>
I had used Jadis 300B for about one year (in 1996) and Unison Research 845
for 6 months (this year). I must admit that I have not made good use of them
since I used the 300B to push Ensemble Reference and Premadona (I forgot the
exact spelling) and used the 845 to push Proac 2.5. The sound is transparent
buy thin. Therefore I change to the reissue M7, M8B and M9. I do not really
want the best amp, but I need an amp worths for possession, known for
reliabilty and durable with good sound. Probably M7, M8B and M9 are not
exactly meet my requirement, but I think very close.
Andy Law
Yours points are noted. But it does not change my view. I have no further to
add. Thanks.
> > > This a great topic for debate. But my feeling is that there is really no
> > > in-between. As a matter of fact, the mid-price tubes are exactly the tubes
> > > that I have regretted the most of buying them. And they are also the type
> of
> > > tubes that tube shops are most keen to sell to you.
> > >
> > > My reasoning is simple. The mid-price "good" tubes only make marginal
> > > improvement to the sound. In the case of 6DJ8/6922, most mid-price tubes
> may
> > > not be even better than the stock Sovtek 6922! To buy any such tubes is a
> > > waste of money IMO. (And I have wasted a lot of money)
> > >
> > > For the tubes that make significant improvement, they are ALWAYS expensive.
> > > For tubes that make a very significant improvement, they are VERY
> expensive.
> > >
> > > This is particularly true for 6922. Not as much for 12AX7 as the Chinese
> and
> > > Ei 12AX7 are exceptionally bad!
> >
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Although I am an avid collector of EL34 tube myself (my collection for
vinatge EL34 has actually been "completed"), I would not say I will use only
EL34 for the rest of my life. And since you said you do not want to buy the
expensive RR grade tubes, why do you choose maybe the most expensive
pentrode in the NOS market?
If you compare your Holland D-getter EL34 with the Siemens EL34, you will
know there is a very huge difference between the sound, not matter how
"matched" are the Siemens. But I just cannot imagine anyone in the world can
buy dozen of NOS D-getter EL34 and select/match them on the tester.
Tim
Those points are not just for you but for many others who are, or used to be
participating, in this NG and interested in NOS tubes.
My advice, after paying huge amount of "wasted" money, is that just buy the
most expensive tubes that you can find. You will not regret it in the long
run as it will prove to be the CHEAPEST way to enjoy tubes.
Tim
and...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<75at0e$g8m$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Tim,
>
>Yours points are noted. But it does not change my view. I have no further
to
>add. Thanks.
>
>
>
>> > > This a great topic for debate. But my feeling is that there is really
no
>> > > in-between. As a matter of fact, the mid-price tubes are exactly the
tubes
>> > > that I have regretted the most of buying them. And they are also the
type
>> of
>> > > tubes that tube shops are most keen to sell to you.
>> > >
>> > > My reasoning is simple. The mid-price "good" tubes only make marginal
>> > > improvement to the sound. In the case of 6DJ8/6922, most mid-price
tubes
>> may
>> > > not be even better than the stock Sovtek 6922! To buy any such tubes
is a
>> > > waste of money IMO. (And I have wasted a lot of money)
>> > >
>> > > For the tubes that make significant improvement, they are ALWAYS
expensive.
>> > > For tubes that make a very significant improvement, they are VERY
>> expensive.
>> > >
>> > > This is particularly true for 6922. Not as much for 12AX7 as the
Chinese
>> and
>> > > Ei 12AX7 are exceptionally bad!
>> >
These are my dream equipment. I wish I knew you earlier so I have a chance
to listen to them.
>Therefore I change to the reissue M7, M8B and M9. I do not really
>want the best amp, but I need an amp worths for possession, known for
>reliabilty and durable with good sound. Probably M7, M8B and M9 are not
>exactly meet my requirement, but I think very close.
>
100% agree. These are guaranteed investment and all-time classics.
BTW, what is your view on vintage amp?
Tim
>
> Although I am an avid collector of EL34 tube myself (my collection for
> vinatge EL34 has actually been "completed"), I would not say I will use only
> EL34 for the rest of my life. And since you said you do not want to buy the
> expensive RR grade tubes, why do you choose maybe the most expensive
> pentrode in the NOS market?
It is because I like M8B and M9 an they use EL34.
> If you compare your Holland D-getter EL34 with the Siemens EL34, you will
> know there is a very huge difference between the sound, not matter how
> "matched" are the Siemens. But I just cannot imagine anyone in the world can
> buy dozen of NOS D-getter EL34 and select/match them on the tester.
>
Yes, there is huge difference in sound between Holland D-getter EL34 and East
Germany Siemens EL34 when used in M8B. There is a pitty I could not buy a set
of 8 Holland D-getter EL34 to try on my M9.
Andy Law
I'm currently using Ensemble Animata, Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Preamp and
MF solid state power amp. I'm thinking about getting a 300B power amp to
match and upgrading to Ensemble Reference later. Would like to know your
views as to which amps matches the ensemble speakers best.
Nick
and...@my-dejanews.com wrote in article
<75ask0$fro$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>
> Friend,
> >
> > Actually, the operating voltage for 845 could reach 1250V, giving power
> > output in Class A undistorted at 24W single-ended.
> >
> > Regarding using EL34 for the rest of your life...I don't buy it!
Probably
> > haven't listened to any good triode push-pull amps lately, huh?
Otherwise,
> > why would you just wanna stick with EL34?
> >
>
> I had used Jadis 300B for about one year (in 1996) and Unison Research
845
> for 6 months (this year). I must admit that I have not made good use of
them
> since I used the 300B to push Ensemble Reference and Premadona (I forgot
the
> exact spelling) and used the 845 to push Proac 2.5. The sound is
transparent
> buy thin. Therefore I change to the reissue M7, M8B and M9. I do not
really
> want the best amp, but I need an amp worths for possession, known for
> reliabilty and durable with good sound. Probably M7, M8B and M9 are not
> exactly meet my requirement, but I think very close.
>
IMO, the Ensemble Reference is light year ahead of the Animata. If I were
you, I will change to a 2nd hand Ensemble Reference first. I actually like
the early version Ensemble Reference far better than the new ones.
If you have read Andy Law's early comment, the Ensemble speaker may not be
the right speaker for 300B, or the other way round. Both of these equipment
are so refined and polite in their manner that when mixed together, they
might taste so thin that it's just like as water! And andy was using maybe
the best 300B SETA in the world - the Jadis 300B.
You should have a more "meaty" amp for the Ensemble Reference. Something
like Marantz 8B or vinatge MC275. Or a more sensitive speaker like those big
Spendor, Rogers, Harbeth or even Klipsch to get the most out of the 300B.
Most importantly, don't be blinded by the fame of WE300B. It is hardly the
best tube in the world. As Ah Ming said in this issue of Audiophile and I
fully agree, it is inferior to the UK PX4/PX25 and even the US monoplate
2A3. The only reason why it is so popular is because it can drive less
sensitive speaker better compare to the other great triodes.
The Ensemble Refence, on the other hand, is a true hifi classic as maybe the
best bookshelf speaker even made, along side with LS3/5a.
Just my 2 cents.
Tim
Nick Fu wrote in message <01be29ce$25eddd20$4d3552ca@default>...
I'm sorry, didn't realize you had owned such great equipment before...
But let's face it, SE 300B is hardly enough power for a lot of speakers.
And when a 300B SE amp sound thin, a lot of the time the problem is with the
pre-amp or driver tubes. 300B itself SHOULD sound thin...honestly I prefer
the mono-plate 2A3 much better but the darn thing just wouldn't drive too
many speakers. The idea of building a push-pull 2A3 mono-plate has crossed
the mind but considering the possibility and cost of a good quad of 2A3
mono-plate I gave up.
We have built the 300B SETA for LeeHC (300B driven by ECC32 and 2A3) and the
outcome is beautiful...the clarity of 300B combined with the warmth of 2A3.
Sounded wonderful with Lee's Klipsch KLF30.
Currently I am working on a 300B push-pull driven by ECC32 and input
transformer pre-amp stage. Should be interesting driving my B&W 803.
Anyhow, I do agree with you that we all have our own preference and
regarding the difference of triode and pentode I always respect other's
choice...as I would expect the same kind of respect from others.
Regards,
Richard
and...@my-dejanews.com 撰寫於文章 <75ask0$fro$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Actually, if I had the choice, I would choose 2A3 monoplate any day over
WE300B (re-issue). I have no idea how good the NOS WE300B would sound but
so far the 2A3 monoplate is the nicest tube I have ever listened to...I only
wish the 2A3 can have a bit more power...
Richard
Tim 撰寫於文章 <75bd77$lf...@pegasus.hkstar.com>...
>Most importantly, don't be blinded by the fame of WE300B. It is hardly the
>best tube in the world. As Ah Ming said in this issue of Audiophile and I
>fully agree, it is inferior to the UK PX4/PX25 and even the US monoplate
>2A3. The only reason why it is so popular is because it can drive less
>sensitive speaker better compare to the other great triodes.
>
>Tim
Hi Nick,
> If you have read Andy Law's early comment, the Ensemble speaker may not be
> the right speaker for 300B, or the other way round. Both of these equipment
> are so refined and polite in their manner that when mixed together, they
> might taste so thin that it's just like as water! And andy was using maybe
> the best 300B SETA in the world - the Jadis 300B.
Yes. The sound was too refined and too smooth. It just like a girl/woman with
heavy make-up on the face. At the first sight she attracts you. But after a
short period of time, you will know it doesn't like real.
Don't buy Ensemble Reference. Go right to Premadona Gold (spelling might be
incorrect). The tonal balance is much much better than the Reference and the
bass extension is surprisingly low.
> You should have a more "meaty" amp for the Ensemble Reference. Something
> like Marantz 8B or vinatge MC275. Or a more sensitive speaker like those big
> Spendor, Rogers, Harbeth or even Klipsch to get the most out of the 300B.
Totally agreed.
> The Ensemble Refence, on the other hand, is a true hifi classic as maybe the
> best bookshelf speaker even made, along side with LS3/5a.
Yes, could be.
> These are my dream equipment. I wish I knew you earlier so I have a chance
> to listen to them.
I had not made good use of the Jadis 300B at that time. Please keep you
dream. In most situation a dream is far beautiful than reality.
>
> >Therefore I change to the reissue M7, M8B and M9. I do not really
> >want the best amp, but I need an amp worths for possession, known for
> >reliabilty and durable with good sound. Probably M7, M8B and M9 are not
> >exactly meet my requirement, but I think very close.
> >
100% agree. These are guaranteed investment and all-time classics.
>
> BTW, what is your view on vintage amp?
In simple words, they make me feel that there was not much advancement in
amplfier design in the past 30 odd years. So are the tubes.
> I'm sorry, didn't realize you had owned such great equipment before...
>
Those were good audio equipment. But I am regret that I did not make good use
of them and did not match them with other equipment properly.
> But let's face it, SE 300B is hardly enough power for a lot of speakers.
Very true. Especially for those speaker under 90 db.
> And when a 300B SE amp sound thin, a lot of the time the problem is with the
> pre-amp or driver tubes. 300B itself SHOULD sound thin...honestly I prefer
> the mono-plate 2A3 much better but the darn thing just wouldn't drive too
> many speakers. The idea of building a push-pull 2A3 mono-plate has crossed
> the mind but considering the possibility and cost of a good quad of 2A3
> mono-plate I gave up.
Although money is not almighty, but money can always make live better.
> We have built the 300B SETA for LeeHC (300B driven by ECC32 and 2A3) and the
> outcome is beautiful...the clarity of 300B combined with the warmth of 2A3.
> Sounded wonderful with Lee's Klipsch KLF30.
Yes. That saturday (about 3 weeks ago) was the first time for me to audition
to the KLF30. The sound was better than I thought.
> Currently I am working on a 300B push-pull driven by ECC32 and input
> transformer pre-amp stage. Should be interesting driving my B&W 803.
Please arrange a party for us to audition to it.
> Anyhow, I do agree with you that we all have our own preference and
> regarding the difference of triode and pentode I always respect other's
> choice...as I would expect the same kind of respect from others.
Thanks. But exchange of view frankly would increase our knowledge on Hi Fi.
> Yes. The sound was too refined and too smooth. It just like a girl/woman
with
> heavy make-up on the face. At the first sight she attracts you. But after
a
> short period of time, you will know it doesn't like real.
>
> Don't buy Ensemble Reference. Go right to Premadona Gold (spelling might
be
> incorrect). The tonal balance is much much better than the Reference and
the
> bass extension is surprisingly low.
Ooops! Too late, I took Tim's advice and bought the ensemble reference
from Sun Wah today. Anyway, the Primaddona Gold is a little over my budget
at the moment. I think a new set costs HKD 80,000. 2 weeks ago, the
dealer at Audio Supplies Company was offering the display set for about HKD
60,000. I don't think I've heard of any second hand shop that carries the
Primaddona.
I'd like to share my little experience with the Reference. As you may
already know, I also own the Ensemble Animata. On my first hearing of the
Reference, I thought the sounds were rather weak. Too soft. But I
thought, "Hey, it doesn't make sense when all the world's saying that the
Reference is a much better speaker than the Animata." The price difference
would imply that at least. So I went through CD's after CD's, did AB test
on both speakers. Gradually, I begin to understand everyone's fascination
with the Ensemble Reference. There's a certain quality to it. The sound's
much more refined, gentle, feminine. If I were to make an analogy, I would
say the Animata's like a solid ring when you lightly tap on glass and the
Reference's like a tingling when you tap on crystal. The Reference is a
clear winner when I listen to violin, piano and female vocal. The quality
simply melts my heart away. But when I listen to guitar, especially
Flamenco music, something's missing. The punch, the gusto, the wild and
firey spirit is simply not there. The texture is not there. I know
because I play guitar myself. Animata's sound maybe be cruder, but it
brings out guitar sound well.
Well, I think I'll keep the Reference since I'm beginning to get
"addicted" to it. I'll sell Animata and look for a set of standing
speakers which I'll use to listen to symphonies and orchestras. I'm
looking for a horn speaker with high sensitivity to match 300B amps. A
friend suggested the Tannoy Turnberry, which is about 96dB. I haven't
found any showroom in HK that will allow me to audition it. Anyone here
ever heard it? What are you comments?
Thanks!
Nick
If you accept the sound of Emsemble Reference. I am sure you will like
Primaddona Gold. The Primaddona Gold is much better than the Reference in
every aspect. The only draw back is probably the out-look, some people,
including my mother, said it look like a coffin.
Andy Law
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Don't get me wrong, I DO support free speech and frank/honest expression of
opinion...just that at the same time I try to sound nice without offending
other people.
Since you had previous experience with the Jadis 300B, can you give me some
insight on how the R&D 300B (2A3 driving 300B) compare? What do you like
and dislike about it? I'd love to have some honest opinion about our
product. :-)
And rest assured that when the new amp is ready, I will organize a party for
the 300B push-pull to drive some reasonable speakers.
Regards,
Richard
and...@my-dejanews.com 撰寫於文章 <75dh8n$nei$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> Don't get me wrong, I DO support free speech and frank/honest expression of
> opinion...just that at the same time I try to sound nice without offending
> other people.
That's OK.
>
> Since you had previous experience with the Jadis 300B, can you give me some
> insight on how the R&D 300B (2A3 driving 300B) compare? What do you like
> and dislike about it? I'd love to have some honest opinion about our
> product. :-)
So far I just used two set of SE 300B. The first one is Audion Silver Night
in 1995. Having used it for about 6 months, I changed to Jadis 300B. Both
sets of 300B had similar sonic characteristics. Off course the sound of Jadis
300B was more powerful and more refined. Their sound were transparent and
the high were very refined and beautiful. It were very good for strings and
female vocal. However, when played with large scale symphony and male vocal,
I felt the sound were a little bit weak and thin. Now I realize that it was
becasue the sensitivity of the speakers I used at that time were not high
enough. I had used them to push Artemis (88 db), Emsemble Reference (89 db)
and Ensemble Primadonna Gold (90 db).
> And rest assured that when the new amp is ready, I will organize a party for
> the 300B push-pull to drive some reasonable speakers.
I look forward to the party.
Hi Andy,
After listening to Ensemble Reference for some time, I think the high's
are a bit too sharp. In your experience, what would be your recommedation
for a matching amp, interconnects and speaker cables? Thanks!
Nick
You must think very careful before you spend that sort of money. I have also
listened to the Primadonna Gold before but I must say I still prefer the
Reference. I found the sound of the Primadonna to be too rich for my taste
compare to the Reference.
> I'd like to share my little experience with the Reference. As you may
>already know, I also own the Ensemble Animata. On my first hearing of the
>Reference, I thought the sounds were rather weak. Too soft. But I
>thought, "Hey, it doesn't make sense when all the world's saying that the
>Reference is a much better speaker than the Animata." The price difference
>would imply that at least. So I went through CD's after CD's, did AB test
>on both speakers. Gradually, I begin to understand everyone's fascination
>with the Ensemble Reference. There's a certain quality to it. The sound's
>much more refined, gentle, feminine. If I were to make an analogy, I would
>say the Animata's like a solid ring when you lightly tap on glass and the
>Reference's like a tingling when you tap on crystal. The Reference is a
>clear winner when I listen to violin, piano and female vocal. The quality
>simply melts my heart away. But when I listen to guitar, especially
>Flamenco music, something's missing. The punch, the gusto, the wild and
>firey spirit is simply not there. The texture is not there. I know
>because I play guitar myself. Animata's sound maybe be cruder, but it
>brings out guitar sound well.
>
Ensemble Reference is all about "refinement". It is maybe the best speaker
in the world for chamber music. Flamenco guitar is about passion. I used to
play a bit of Flamenco guitar too when I was young. Actually I found LS3/5a
to be excellent for replay Flamenco music.
> Well, I think I'll keep the Reference since I'm beginning to get
>"addicted" to it. I'll sell Animata and look for a set of standing
>speakers which I'll use to listen to symphonies and orchestras. I'm
>looking for a horn speaker with high sensitivity to match 300B amps. A
>friend suggested the Tannoy Turnberry, which is about 96dB. I haven't
>found any showroom in HK that will allow me to audition it. Anyone here
>ever heard it? What are you comments?
>
You seem to have a dilemma here. You know 300B will probably not match the
Ensemble. You want to keep the Ensemble but, yet, you are looking a 300b
amp. And both 300B and Ensemble is probably not good for flamenco music,
which is all about speed and rhythm.
IMO the most important thing in hifi is not to find out what is the best
hifi out there. But to find out what sound oneself actually like the best.
It is also a self-exploration.
Tim
> After listening to Ensemble Reference for some time, I think the high's
> are a bit too sharp. In your experience, what would be your recommedation
> for a matching amp, interconnects and speaker cables? Thanks!
The sound of Ensemble is very refined and a little bit thin. Its sensitivity
is not low, 89 db for the Emsemble Reference. Therefore tube amp would be the
best match for it. Your said the high is a bit too sharp, are you using a
solid state amp, and or using cables which sound are fast and good at high?
e.g. Decade or other silver cable. If 'Yes', using warm sound cable like
Cardas and MIT could have improvement. The room acoustic is very very
important. If the reflection is strong, you need to use absortion and
reflection material to improve it. We are only taking about theory here. It
could only be achieved by experiment.
> You must think very careful before you spend that sort of money. I have
also
> listened to the Primadonna Gold before but I must say I still prefer the
> Reference. I found the sound of the Primadonna to be too rich for my
taste
> compare to the Reference.
>
I'll definitely be more careful the next time. Reason that I didn't
audition the Primaddona is because I wasn't ready to spend so much money on
speakers yet.
>
> Ensemble Reference is all about "refinement". It is maybe the best
speaker
> in the world for chamber music. Flamenco guitar is about passion. I used
to
> play a bit of Flamenco guitar too when I was young. Actually I found
LS3/5a
> to be excellent for replay Flamenco music.
>
> > Well, I think I'll keep the Reference since I'm beginning to get
> >"addicted" to it. I'll sell Animata and look for a set of standing
> >speakers which I'll use to listen to symphonies and orchestras. I'm
> >looking for a horn speaker with high sensitivity to match 300B amps. A
> >friend suggested the Tannoy Turnberry, which is about 96dB. I haven't
> >found any showroom in HK that will allow me to audition it. Anyone here
> >ever heard it? What are you comments?
>
>
> You seem to have a dilemma here. You know 300B will probably not match
the
> Ensemble. You want to keep the Ensemble but, yet, you are looking a 300b
> amp. And both 300B and Ensemble is probably not good for flamenco music,
> which is all about speed and rhythm.
>
> IMO the most important thing in hifi is not to find out what is the best
> hifi out there. But to find out what sound oneself actually like the
best.
> It is also a self-exploration.
>
My plans are to gradually own different sets of speakers so I can listen
to different music that suit my mood at that moment. I also like the sound
of 300B, but don't know what type of speakers go best for it. I guess my
first step is to look for an amp that matches the ensemble Reference (the
sound is a bit sharp now, esp when violin and oboe play loudly at the same
time). Then I'll be looking for a 300B that I like and a pair of speakers
that matches 300B. It is so unfortunate that there isn't a set of hifi
that can faithfully reproduce all music. Even if you only listen to
Classical, it seems that some are good for vocals, some are good for
chamber, some are good for flamenco, some are good for symphonies etc.
Maybe I'm wrong, but feel free to correct me.
"A happy amateur audiophile" should not equal "throwing money away". I
hope I don't have to spend too much money before I find my favorite
combination. :)
Nick
> My plans are to gradually own different sets of speakers so I can listen
>to different music that suit my mood at that moment.
And different speakers require different power amps which in turn need
different pre-amps. Make sure you are prepare for it. Having said that, I
currently have 4 pre-amp, 15 power amp and 3 pair of LS3/5a.
>I also like the sound
>of 300B, but don't know what type of speakers go best for it.
Easy. A speaker of not less than 90db sensitivity. That is not too many
choice actually.
>I guess my
>first step is to look for an amp that matches the ensemble Reference (the
>sound is a bit sharp now, esp when violin and oboe play loudly at the same
>time).
As mentioned, a "meaty" sound tube amp like vintage Marantz 8B or MC275.
>Then I'll be looking for a 300B that I like and a pair of speakers
>that matches 300B. It is so unfortunate that there isn't a set of hifi
>that can faithfully reproduce all music.
100% agree.
>Even if you only listen to
>Classical, it seems that some are good for vocals, some are good for
>chamber, some are good for flamenco, some are good for symphonies etc.
>Maybe I'm wrong, but feel free to correct me.
>
> "A happy amateur audiophile" should not equal "throwing money away". I
>hope I don't have to spend too much money before I find my favorite
>combination. :)
>
Try to listen to more systems before buying anything.
Tim
> > IMO the most important thing in hifi is not to find out what is the best
> > hifi out there. But to find out what sound oneself actually like the
> best.
> > It is also a self-exploration.
Very true. Some Hi Fi fans may not really understand this philosophy.
>. Even if you only listen to Classical, it seems that some are good for vocals, some are good for
> chamber, some are good for flamenco, some are good for symphonies etc.
> Maybe I'm wrong, but feel free to correct me.
From my experience you are totally correct. Just think about in real life,
can you expect a famous symphony orchestra to play Rock and Roll music as
good as a famous Rock and Roll band, or the vice versa? Can you expect Cheung
Hok Yau to sing opera as good as his Chinese hit songs? Can we expect a
Porche sport car to run as comfortable as a Benz saloon car? Can we expect a
Benz saloon car to round a corner as stable as a Porche sport car? Too many
example in reality, please think about yourself.
> The sound of Ensemble is very refined and a little bit thin. Its
sensitivity
> is not low, 89 db for the Emsemble Reference. Therefore tube amp would be
the
> best match for it. Your said the high is a bit too sharp, are you using a
> solid state amp, and or using cables which sound are fast and good at
high?
> e.g. Decade or other silver cable. If 'Yes', using warm sound cable like
> Cardas and MIT could have improvement. The room acoustic is very very
> important. If the reflection is strong, you need to use absortion and
> reflection material to improve it. We are only taking about theory here.
It
> could only be achieved by experiment.
>
I'm using Musical Fidelity's Nu-vista tube preamp and a very old MF power
amp (The very first power amp designed by MF - Dr Thomas, not sure if
you've heard of it.) I'm waiting for MF to produce it's matching power amp
for Nu-vista, which will be coming out somewhere in early quarter next
year. For Cd to preamp interconnect, I'm using MIT 330 HE; from preamp to
power amp, I'm just using a cheap interconnect as I don't know what to buy
yet. My speaker cables are "Musical LE" which was recommeded to me by a
second hand shop. I hear that Kimber Kable's Silver Streak interconnect
and Cardas Golden Cross are very good. Any comments?
Happy listening!
Nick
I think my next step is to listen to Marantz 8B or MC275 at second hand
shops. Thank you for being so generous in helping out an amateur
audiophile.
Nick
> I'm using Musical Fidelity's Nu-vista tube preamp and a very old MF power
>amp (The very first power amp designed by MF - Dr Thomas, not sure if
>you've heard of it.) I'm waiting for MF to produce it's matching power amp
>for Nu-vista, which will be coming out somewhere in early quarter next
>year. For Cd to preamp interconnect, I'm using MIT 330 HE; from preamp to
>power amp, I'm just using a cheap interconnect as I don't know what to buy
>yet. My speaker cables are "Musical LE" which was recommeded to me by a
>second hand shop. I hear that Kimber Kable's Silver Streak interconnect
>and Cardas Golden Cross are very good. Any comments?
>
>
I would not wait for the MF Nu-vista power amp if I were you. The power amp
will only be a solid state amp with ni-vista tube as input buffer. It will
not have the "body" that you are looking for for your Ensemble Reference.
You need a complete tube design power amp.
And you should never use silver wire/interconnect if you system is already
thin-sounding.
Tim
Yes, life is full of paradox. I just didn't stop to think that it's
applicable to hifi as well. Well, I believe I have some idea where to go
next. Thanks for you help!
Nick
>
> I'm using Musical Fidelity's Nu-vista tube preamp and a very old MF power
> amp (The very first power amp designed by MF - Dr Thomas, not sure if
> you've heard of it.) I'm waiting for MF to produce it's matching power amp
> for Nu-vista, which will be coming out somewhere in early quarter next
> year. For Cd to preamp interconnect, I'm using MIT 330 HE; from preamp to
> power amp, I'm just using a cheap interconnect as I don't know what to buy
> yet. My speaker cables are "Musical LE" which was recommeded to me by a
> second hand shop. I hear that Kimber Kable's Silver Streak interconnect
> and Cardas Golden Cross are very good. Any comments?
>
As I have said we are only talking about theory here. Good sound could only
be achieved by experiment. Putting all the expensive equipment together do
not guarantee good sound. The best and most economic way is to borrow
equipment and cable from you friend, or ask them to bring along, to audition
at your home with your equipment. Buy them a meal is always cheaper than
buying wrong Hi Fi component.
From my personal view, when a set of Hi Fi playing your favourite tune, if
it could attract you to listen to the tune until it finish, then it is a set
of good Hi Fi. Expensive equipment not always has this attration if may match
with other equipment properly. Don't just criticise the high, the low,
definition, sound stage, etc. as many people do. I emphasis, the attration to
listen is the most important element in Hi Fi. I understand that many pepole
may not agree my view. But please think about yourself.
Andy Law
Andy Law
> > As mentioned, a "meaty" sound tube amp like vintage Marantz 8B or MC275.
>
> I think my next step is to listen to Marantz 8B or MC275 at second hand
> shops. Thank you for being so generous in helping out an amateur
> audiophile.
I have recently compared my reissued M8 and M9 briefly. Their sonic
characteristic are totally different. Breifly speaking M9 is more powerful
and more transparent. M8 is more rich in sound, it is "meaty" as described
by Tim. However, the input sensitivity of M8 is quite low, I need to turn the
volume knob to 1 o'clock position for normal sound pressure level; when
connect to M7, 10 o'clcok position is suffice.
I knew you don't like this kind of words as many people do after my first
visit to your system.
But if you are going to describe a system's sonic characteristics, you
cannot tell the guy that you can listen to the song until it's finished.
Attributes should be used for communication or it will be very very hard
for me to imagine how it sound from simple saying "good sound".
There are some more attributes like the musical mood of the system,
good for what kind of music and the emotional feelings presented, not
just the ones you've mentioned above. But they are the more abstract than
the ones that you've mentioned (although they still cannot respresent the
whole picture as clearly as listen to it yourself).
There are a lot more attributes that can be used but I think using the
common words will be better as people tend to understand better.
Felix
Another audiophile also mentioned that M8 needs a preamp with high gain to
match. I'm not sure if my Nu-vista is good enough. I wouldn't know until
I've tested. But then that's probably part of the fun being an audiophile.
Of course that means cash, cash, cash. Sometimes I just wish HK would be
like the States where there's 30-day money back guarantee.
If it doesn't work out, I probably would get the M7 as well. Just keep
testing until I find my dream system (until I outgrow this stage that is).
Well, if you guys are interested, I'll repost my findings. :)
Wish me luck!
Nick
It is true that the M8 sounds its best with M7. But it is not true that it
means "cash, cash, cash". I think you have completely missed Andy's advice.
What you should do is to meet with more audiophiles and get to know someone
who own the M7 + M8 (just among the active participants of this NG, I know
there is at least 6x M7 and 6x M8b. And that is not even counting the DIY
M7s), buy them dinner and either borrow their M7+8 or take your Ensemble
Reference to visit them.
Andy Law is thinking of a M7 + M8b audition sometime in future. Right ,
Andy?
Tim
> > From my personal view, when a set of Hi Fi playing your favourite tune, if
> > it could attract you to listen to the tune until it finish, then it is a set
> > of good Hi Fi. Expensive equipment not always has this attration if may match
> > with other equipment properly. Don't just criticise the high, the low,
> > definition, sound stage, etc. as many people do. I emphasis, the attration to
> > listen is the most important element in Hi Fi. I understand that many pepole
> > may not agree my view. But please think about yourself.
> >
>
> I knew you don't like this kind of words as many people do after my first
> visit to your system.
Oh no! You misunderstood me. I am just using simple words to express my
personal view and feelings. On the contrary, although I know there was no
"Perfect" set of Hi Fi on this earth, and very likely will not be, I am
still doing what other audiophile doing, trying to find out the weaknesses of
my system and try to improve it. That's why I have been buying and changing
many Hi Fi components in the past 20 odd years. As I am getting old and
became more lazy and wish to be more relax, I wish to settle down with my M7,
M8 and M9.
> But if you are going to describe a system's sonic characteristics, you
> cannot tell the guy that you can listen to the song until it's finished.
> Attributes should be used for communication or it will be very very hard
> for me to imagine how it sound from simple saying "good sound".
Totally agreed. But in my simple words, 'good sound' mean the sound of a
component or a Hi Fi set has attraction to make you to listen along.
Have we met a Hi Fi system which was not expensive, say only about $30,000- .
From an audiophile points of view, it did not have good extension at high and
low, it sound stage is mediocre, its dynamic is a little bit compress, but
it attract you to listen along when play with your favourite tune? I do.
On the other hand, have we met a Hi Fi system which are expensive, say over
$200,000-. From an sudiophile points of view, it has good extension at high
and low with good sound stage and dynamic. But it sound cool and not
involving? You can find this sort of sound in some of the high end Hi Fi show
rooms in HK or at your friends place, or at the high end shows.
> There are some more attributes like the musical mood of the system,
> good for what kind of music and the emotional feelings presented, not
> just the ones you've mentioned above. But they are the more abstract than
> the ones that you've mentioned (although they still cannot respresent the
> whole picture as clearly as listen to it yourself).
> There are a lot more attributes that can be used but I think using the
> common words will be better as people tend to understand better.
Totally agreed. It involved the mood of the auditor too.
> Another audiophile also mentioned that M8 needs a preamp with high gain to
> match. I'm not sure if my Nu-vista is good enough. I wouldn't know until
> I've tested. But then that's probably part of the fun being an audiophile.
> Of course that means cash, cash, cash. Sometimes I just wish HK would be
> like the States where there's 30-day money back guarantee.
>
> If it doesn't work out, I probably would get the M7 as well. Just keep
> testing until I find my dream system (until I outgrow this stage that is).
> Well, if you guys are interested, I'll repost my findings. :)
>
> Wish me luck!
You may bring your Nu-vista to my place to have a test with my M8 if you so
wish.
> It is true that the M8 sounds its best with M7. But it is not true that it
> means "cash, cash, cash". I think you have completely missed Andy's advice.
> What you should do is to meet with more audiophiles and get to know someone
> who own the M7 + M8 (just among the active participants of this NG, I know
> there is at least 6x M7 and 6x M8b. And that is not even counting the DIY
> M7s), buy them dinner and either borrow their M7+8 or take your Ensemble
> Reference to visit them.
>
> Andy Law is thinking of a M7 + M8b audition sometime in future. Right ,
> Andy?
Yes. Nick, at my place would be cheaper for you. Buy me a tea is Ok, no need
for dinner. Ha Ha.
I think we are all doing this, changing and buying according to our
budget.
> > But if you are going to describe a system's sonic characteristics, you
> > cannot tell the guy that you can listen to the song until it's finished.
> > Attributes should be used for communication or it will be very very hard
> > for me to imagine how it sound from simple saying "good sound".
>
> Totally agreed. But in my simple words, 'good sound' mean the sound of a
> component or a Hi Fi set has attraction to make you to listen along.
>
> Have we met a Hi Fi system which was not expensive, say only about $30,000- .
> From an audiophile points of view, it did not have good extension at high and
> low, it sound stage is mediocre, its dynamic is a little bit compress, but
> it attract you to listen along when play with your favourite tune? I do.
>
It doesn't need a $30000 system to attract me, a portable radio can also
do this, but this doesn't happen all the time.
> On the other hand, have we met a Hi Fi system which are expensive, say over
> $200,000-. From an sudiophile points of view, it has good extension at high
> and low with good sound stage and dynamic. But it sound cool and not
> involving? You can find this sort of sound in some of the high end Hi Fi show
> rooms in HK or at your friends place, or at the high end shows.
>
I have also heard many such systems before.
Felix
So, you have got your tubes from the States finally?
Lo TH 撰寫於文章 <01be2d60$ed1f14a0$1b00a8c0@246>...
>
>Hi Andy,
>
>Having replaced the aging 6550C by new stock ordered directly from the
>States, I now find more dynamics in my system. However, the shortcoming is
>losing the sweetness in mid range.
There is a way to improve the mid-range without having to wait for the tubes
to burn-in (actually, tubes tend to improve on smoothness when aged -- just
like good wine, but the character won't change)...ask LeeHC and see if you
can borrow his "Shunmook" Valve resonators (神木膽帽). Used with any
resonably good tubes these resonators improves the mid-range and image
sharpness at the same time, I think they are worth a try. Much better than
using MIT cables as they tend to muddle things up while warming the
mid-range a bit.
Regards,
Richard
>How long would it take them burned in
>properly? I mean they can present upto reasonable and acceptable level.
>
>The fine tuning of a system is the most difficult part of all such as
>changing its assessors. Personally I don't like the sonic characteristics
>of MIT cables as I feel they are too slow and lacking definition in High
>extension though they are richer in Mid Range. I may be wrong but this is
>only my personal feeling. I rather look into change of some 6922 in my Pre
>Amp to find out whether system's attraction that is lacking as you said can
>be recovered. What is your suggestion of tubes anyway? BTW, what 6922 are
>you using? You were saying the ProAc 2.5 requires very long break in time
>that reminds me of somebody told me the same thing few years ago. Can you
>be more specific on this?
>
>Lo TH
For the cheaper MIT cables, may be. But for CVT series and up, it is
simply not true. You still haven't experience the power of MIT high
end cables.
Felix
Actually, I think it should read "I haven't experienced the power of ANY
high-end cables"! I don't think you guys consider any cable selling new for
less than HK$2K high-end?! Unfortunately, all the cables that I own are
under the HK$2K mark...but then, the Silver Streak IS performing well in my
system?!
I am thinking of getting myself a pair of Kimber KCAG RCA interconnects in
place of the Silver Streak, what do you think? Maybe I should save the
money and get a better CD player instead? I find silver cables work really
well with tube amps, micro-details are really obvious and smooth with
silver.
Thus far, all the reviews favor the Sony CDP X-5000 to the X-3000...heard it
perform in a decent system at all? Or should I be looking somewhere else,
like a used Proceed maybe?
Best regards,
Richard
Felix M.C. Li 撰寫於文章 <367F5D12...@techie.com>...
I wonder whether you guys will be free for an audition during the holiday
season. I understand from Andy Law that he has had the experience of
bi-wiring two pair of Decades but the result was not satisfactory to him. He
later switched to MIT CVT 850 which could meet with his requirement. I have
had the experience of using Ivan's MIT CVT 750 but simply it is not my cup
of tea when connected to my system. CVT 850 of course is another story but
they are just too expensive for me unless there is a trial run on my system
proving it is a perfect match.
Best Regards
Lo TH
R.Mui wrote in message <75nnv4$c1t$1...@imsp009a.netvigator.com>...
R.Mui wrote:
>
>
> I am thinking of getting myself a pair of Kimber KCAG RCA interconnects in
> place of the Silver Streak, what do you think? Maybe I should save the
> money and get a better CD player instead? I find silver cables work really
> well with tube amps, micro-details are really obvious and smooth with
> silver.
>
> I think you'd better save the money for some other things. KCAG can only
> squeeze out some more mid treble at the cost of the smooth and well balanced
> mid range which you have now with Silver Streak. Maybe apparently more
> detailed only at the first few seconds. Even KCTG tended to be so but with
> better dynamic and extension as tested in two systems including mine. I
> prefer Silver Streak even though it sounds slow and not clear enorgh.
Maybe the Venture cables work better or even perfect with your tube gears.
Edwin
Hi Richard,
Sony CDP X-5000 is definitely much better than the 3000. You can hear the
difference right away. I'm using X-5000. It's clear and can provide lots
of details. But it also has it's problems. The sound is kinda thin. I'm
still trying to overcome this by using different types of interconnects.
Right now, I'm in the stage of converting from SS to tube amps. Maybe this
will solve my problem. I heard the Altis DAC the other day. I thought it
was very musical. But I don't know if Altis CD transport+DAC is within
your budget.
Regards
Nick
> I think we are all doing this, changing and buying according to our
> budget.
Unfortunately sometimes I went beyond my budget. Even worse was that the
component I bought was not better than what I had, and I traded in my old one
already.
> > > But if you are going to describe a system's sonic characteristics, you
> > > cannot tell the guy that you can listen to the song until it's finished.
> > > Attributes should be used for communication or it will be very very hard
> > > for me to imagine how it sound from simple saying "good sound".
> >
> > Totally agreed. But in my simple words, 'good sound' mean the sound of a
> > component or a Hi Fi set has attraction to make you to listen along.
> >
> > Have we met a Hi Fi system which was not expensive, say only about $30,000- .
> > From an audiophile points of view, it did not have good extension at high and
> > low, it sound stage is mediocre, its dynamic is a little bit compress, but
> > it attract you to listen along when play with your favourite tune? I do.
> >
>
> It doesn't need a $30000 system to attract me, a portable radio can also
> do this, but this doesn't happen all the time.
>
> > On the other hand, have we met a Hi Fi system which are expensive, say over
> > $200,000-. From an sudiophile points of view, it has good extension at high
> > and low with good sound stage and dynamic. But it sound cool and not
> > involving? You can find this sort of sound in some of the high end Hi Fi show
> > rooms in HK or at your friends place, or at the high end shows.
> >
>
> I have also heard many such systems before.
OK. You understood what I was saying now.
Oh dear, I'm growing so impatient that I probably can't wait till your next
audition. Holidays are coming up and I can play to my heart's content
during this time. But if you do hold an audition, please let me know. I
would be very interested in hearing more comments from fellow audiophiles.
:)
Nick
> Oh dear, I'm growing so impatient that I probably can't wait till your next
> audition. Holidays are coming up and I can play to my heart's content
> during this time. But if you do hold an audition, please let me know. I
> would be very interested in hearing more comments from fellow audiophiles.
> :)
I am available on 25/12 (pm) and 27/12 (pm). Can we hold an audition on M7 +
M8 and M7 +M9?
> >> My suggestion to Andy is to invest in a good tube tester asap. The
> Chinese
> >> tube tester cannot test mutual conductance. You should get a good tester
> >> that can test dynamic mutual conductance.The latest
> Audiophile
> >> has good coverage of tube testers and you should read them. AVO and the
> >> higher B&K model will be good. If you do not trust the local tube shops for
>
> the tubes they sell, there is no reason to trust them for the tube testers.
> I got both of my tube testers from US and they work great. But I actually
> think UK testers are superior...
> Tube tester is not expensive consider the amount f money you have spent on
> your tubes. It is a must-have.
Just one thing to add. Even mutual conductance is measured at a much lower
voltage than true operating condition and not the last word in matching. So tube
testers are better for input and driver tubes than power tubes.
Also, unless you test very few tubes, some of these testers are actually
cumbersome to use. AVO is very clumpsy to use. So is the TV-2, which also has
unreliable meters. TV-7 probably has the best combination of quality and ease of
use. That said, I rather like the B&K for small tubes.
Tube testers are not difficult to repair, and even if you buy locally, you can
take a few small tubes to test out. TV-7 is probably the most maintenance free.
It happened that I am now looking for a TV7 locally rather than overseas.
Since if it is out of order, I can easier to get someone to fix it. Do you
have a TV7, can it test 6CG7 and 6BH6?
Regarding the power tubes. I have ordered a maxi-matcher which can test 4
power tubes at one time. See www.aa.net/maxitest. Hopefully I can receive it
sometime next week.
Andylaw
> Just one thing to add. Even mutual conductance is measured at a much lower
> voltage than true operating condition and not the last word in matching. So tube
> testers are better for input and driver tubes than power tubes.
>
> Also, unless you test very few tubes, some of these testers are actually
> cumbersome to use. AVO is very clumpsy to use. So is the TV-2, which also has
> unreliable meters. TV-7 probably has the best combination of quality and ease of
> use. That said, I rather like the B&K for small tubes.
>
> Tube testers are not difficult to repair, and even if you buy locally, you can
> take a few small tubes to test out. TV-7 is probably the most maintenance free.
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
I definitely would not rely on John or, for that matter, anyone selling you
a TV7 in Hong Kong to fix the TV7 if it goes wrong.
The risk is the same if you are buying it in HK compare to overseas.
And the TV-7 can test both 6CG7 and 6BH6.
Tim
and...@ctimail.com wrote in message <76qask$mb7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Agree. Actually the best way to match EL34 for use in M9 is exactly what you
are doing now, Andy. Plug it in the M9 itself and take the reading on the
meter.
>Also, unless you test very few tubes, some of these testers are actually
>cumbersome to use. AVO is very clumpsy to use. So is the TV-2, which also
has
>unreliable meters. TV-7 probably has the best combination of quality and
ease of
>use. That said, I rather like the B&K for small tubes.
>
For me, as I got a TV-7A but I want to have a tube tester that can give
"Remaining Life in %" reading and can test UK tubes like PX4, PX25 and UU
type rectifiers. It seems the best choice is AVO.
>Tube testers are not difficult to repair, and even if you buy locally, you
can
>take a few small tubes to test out. TV-7 is probably the most maintenance
free.
>
I actually have a copy of the maintenance manual for the TV-7. But you got
to find someone who is willing to do the job.
Tim
> I definitely would not rely on John or, for that matter, anyone selling you
> a TV7 in Hong Kong to fix the TV7 if it goes wrong.
>
> The risk is the same if you are buying it in HK compare to overseas.
>
> And the TV-7 can test both 6CG7 and 6BH6.
>
Tim,
I wish to buy a TV7 in Hk is mainly because I can check it before I buy it.
Also I hope I could have a chance to choose a newer one. Could you recommend
a shop for me to buy it?
Andy Law
Tim
and...@ctimail.com wrote in message <76qne3$o7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> I bought mine from US. To buy a tube tester in HK is the same as buying NOS
> tube here. I though you gave this up already.
>
> Tim
Tim,
I would not buy NOS tubes from local shops. But for an old tube-tester, I
have different view. I am still looking for a TV-7. As you are look for a
better one, would you consider to sell your TV-7?
One thing that your should know is that many TV-7 series tube testers have
problem tesing 6DJ8/6922.
Since you are going to stay with M9 and will probably acquire more 6DJ8/6922
than me, I recommend you to go for a higher grade tube tester.
Tim
and...@ctimail.com wrote in message <76sni9$nu7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...