Re: [hitchwiki] Discuss policy on listing accommodation on hitchwiki

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Kasper Souren

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Apr 17, 2013, 7:23:15 AM4/17/13
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I'm happy to see this issue discussed and I want to see all editors
happy with the outcome.
I don't have any strong opinion about the issue myself though. I can
only add that if there's any need or enough desire, I can set up
budgettravel.wiki.yt (or somethingelse.wiki.yt) to fill the niche
that's between hitchwiki, couchwiki and wikivoyage.

Mikael Korpela

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Apr 17, 2013, 7:32:52 AM4/17/13
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> I don't have any strong opinion about the issue myself though. I can
> only add that if there's any need or enough desire, I can set up
> budgettravel.wiki.yt (or somethingelse.wiki.yt) to fill the niche
> that's between hitchwiki, couchwiki and wikivoyage.

+1 but only if there's only enough folks starting to work on it from the beginning. One man ain't enough yet. Awesome ideas need awesome people.

Philipp Gruber

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Apr 17, 2013, 7:55:14 AM4/17/13
to hitc...@googlegroups.com, Stew Green
Hi Stew,

I kind of read your discussion in the wiki but didn't find the time to
reply yet, so here are my thoughts:

Actually, I do not like to make strict rules. I generally have the
opinion, that it's good to collect information.

But unfortunately we did have some bad experiences with this.

One topic that pops up regularly is car sharing. There are lots of
commercial and non-commercial car-sharing website around and they love
to increase their reputation by posting their links to our wiki.
We tolerated them for a while, but when they were too many, at one point
we had to decide to remove all of them.

We did allow information about hostels for quite a while, but eventually
decided to ditch them for similar reasons:

* Virtually all hostels are commercially run, so the owners have a
genuine interest in spreading the word about their places. It's not
our job to help them with this.

* We did have commercial advertisements in the past, and we did have
listings were it was not possible to tell whether it's commercial or
not. This is especially a problem when web links are posted.

* These kind of information changes quickly. Hostels open and close and
usually increase their prices every year. Our articles are often
unchanged for years. It's simply not possible for us to keep
these kind of information up to date.

That said, I'd prefer to generally keep information about hostels out of
hitchwiki, unless there's a good reason for it. But in am open for other
opinions on that topic.

What is sure, is that they don't belong into a country article. While
this might work for a country like Cyprus, there are enough countries
that have 1000s of hostels.

Some thoughts on your specific post:

> Free camping is allowed with the land owners permission. It seems OK on beaches and forests.

I think we should definitely collect these kind of information. It is
always non-commercial, it is not outdated too fast and it could be
helpful for non-backpacking hitchhikers (as they still might get stuck).

> The least attractive place for me, but a good option for connecting flights.

Definitely wrong here. Information about stopovers is not hitchhiking
related at all.

Also, I don't see any need to list anything that is already on
hostelworld, hihostels or similar sites.

> personally I'd like to see a shoestringtravel wiki as that could be a
> one-stop wiki and I thought hitchwiki could take that role.

This unfortunately is not practicable for many reasons.
It might be worth considering starting something like this.


Some general thoughts:

While many (but definitely not all) hitchhikers are also backpackers, by
far not all backpackers are also hitchhikers. Actually only a minority
of backpackers are hitchhikers.

This means, if we generally collect backpacker information, no matter
whether it's related to hitchhiking or not, we will slowly turn into a
general backpacking site (as these people are the majority) which we
clearly don't want.
A similar effect can be seen on couchsurfing, which in my opinion is
nowadays a mix of facebook and meetup.com, with an integrated
hospitality community.


jm2c

Philipp



On 17/04/13 20:38, Stew Green wrote:
> I wish to bring here a discussion I have been having with CRCulver over
> on the Cyprus page http://hitchwiki.org/en/Cyprus
> I posted a list of the cheapest place to stay in each region and then
> added a similar tip list from another traveller
> CRCulvers point was �Hitchwiki is not meant to include exhaustive
> listings of paid accommodation�
> I agree but have some thoughts
>
> - What info do we keep in the Wiki ?
> STUFF THAT IS USEFUL TO HITCHERS ..that is helpful
> - What stuff do we delete ?
> - stuff that is NOT USEFUL or DUPLICATE easily found elsewhere
> The NO DUPLICATION rule is important but shouldn�t rule over the give
> helpful info rule
> so if it doesn�t exist elsewhere or it�s difficul;t to find then keep it
> in the wiki
>
> CRCulver misunderstood me he said �Hitchwiki is not meant to include
> exhaustive listings of paid accommodation�, but all I did was post
> basically the cheapest known place for each region.
> You don�t post the Hilton cos that is not useful to hitcher. In a
> country wher echeap places are not common then it is USEFUL to a hitcher
> to know the cheapest place cos .. if it is a cold stormy day then he has
> the option to check in to a place for 1 night to do his washing ..and if
> the cheapest place is $40 he knows to look for a secret room etc.
>
> - and I still think it good to keep SLEEP CHEAP TIP LIST on a - separate
> page so that it doesn�t clog the main listing.
>
> - personally I'd like to see a shoestringtravel wiki as that could be a
> one-stop wiki and I thought hitchwiki could take that role. As it is
> diffcult for me to post stuff in different wikis .I have now moved to
> posting in couchwiki http://couchwiki.org/en/Cyprus
>
> I'll post the rest of the comments after I check with CRCulver and
> invite him to discuss here also
>
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Stew Green

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Apr 17, 2013, 9:05:02 AM4/17/13
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Actually, I do not like to make strict rules. I generally have the
opinion, that it's good to collect information.
If it HELPS HHs keep it in ..that's what I say
however I accept your point about people posting THEIR OWN hostels
.. this is called a slippery slope argument .. that we shouldn't allow the beginning cos the extreme might happen .. it's a bad argument in practice all you need to is set a limit e.g. remove a listing if cheaper options are easy to find

* Virtually all hostels are commercially run, so the owners have a
   genuine interest in spreading the word about their places. It's not
   our job to help them with this.
what's that got to to with the price of fish ?.. if it helps hitch hikers is the only thing that matters
If we tell people that they can go into a McDonalds anywhere in the world and ask for a glass of water. They will always give you a free glass ..that helps McDs, but it still helps HHs
-
* We did have commercial advertisements in the past, and we did have
   listings were it was not possible to tell whether it's commercial or
   not. This is especially a problem when web links are posted.
so hypothetical problem only


* These kind of information changes quickly. Hostels open and close and
   usually increase their prices every year. Our articles are often
   unchanged for years. It's simply not possible for us to keep
   these kind of information up to date.
- it doesn't necessarily need to be upto date ..the info that there was a super cheap hostel in a town 3 years ago .is still useful today even if the price has changed
 
What is sure, is that they don't belong into a country article. While
this might work for a country like Cyprus, there are enough countries
that have 1000s of hostels.
- It is useful when you visit to have a list of cheap places to stay in your backpocket
it does make sense to keep it sometimes as a separate list


> Free camping is allowed with the land owners permission. It seems OK on beaches and forests.

I think we should definitely collect these kind of information. It is
always non-commercial, it is not outdated too fast and it could be
helpful for non-backpacking hitchhikers (as they still might get stuck).
- governments can change laws

> The least attractive place for me, but a good option for connecting flights.

Definitely wrong here. Information about stopovers is not hitchhiking
related at all.
- That is a quote from that guys tip list ..it is useful to HHs as they do fly to Cyprus

Also, I don't see any need to list anything that is already on
hostelworld, hihostels or similar sites.
- I DO it's In practice it's a lot easier than using hostelworld .. with Hostelworld you have to spend time searching each city one at a time.  

 > personally I'd like to see a shoestringtravel wiki as that could be a
 > one-stop wiki and I thought hitchwiki could take that role.

This unfortunately is not practicable for many reasons.
It might be worth considering starting something like this.

While many (but definitely not all) hitchhikers are also backpackers, by
far not all backpackers are also hitchhikers. Actually only a minority
of backpackers are hitchhikers.
- YEP I didn't say backpackers ..I said shoestring  travel and hitchers ..so that argument is invalid
almost by definition hitchers are shoestring travellers
thanks for comments Phil

Philipp Gruber

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Apr 17, 2013, 9:40:11 AM4/17/13
to hitc...@googlegroups.com, Stew Green
On 17/04/13 23:05, Stew Green wrote:
> Actually, I do not like to make strict rules. I generally have the
> opinion, that it's good to collect information.
> If it HELPS HHs keep it in ..that's what I say
> however I accept your point about people posting THEIR OWN hostels
> .. this is called a slippery slope argument .. that we shouldn't allow
> the beginning cos the extreme might happen .. it's a bad argument in
> practice

As I mentioned, this DID happen a couple of times in hitchwiki...

> all you need to is set a limit e.g. remove a listing if cheaper
> options are easy to find
That would indeed be a solution, but I don't think it's practical. It
would be imply that we keep an eye on any new edits and even do some
research. We don't have the capacities for that.

See a recent example here:
http://hitchwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Russia&diff=68380&oldid=67750

What does that look like to you? Could be true, could be spam. We can
not know, but he posted that link into many pages, so we deleted it.

> * Virtually all hostels are commercially run, so the owners have a
> genuine interest in spreading the word about their places. It's not
> our job to help them with this.
> what's that got to to with the price of fish ?.. if it helps hitch
> hikers is the only thing that matters
> If we tell people that they can go into a McDonalds anywhere in the
> world and ask for a glass of water. They will always give you a free
> glass ..that helps McDs, but it still helps HHs
Yeah, sorry. I was implying that there's a fair chance that a hostel
owner adds his own hostel and we have no way of finding that out.
They might add the worst overpriced shithole as "quite nice and cheap
place" and we have no practical way of verifying this.

Quality of information is a general problem of wikis. However, it's
rather unlikely that someone adds fake information on purpose just for
fun or to harm us.
But as soon as money is involved, there can be quite a strong motivation
to add fake information and some people put a lot of energy into these
kinds of business.
This makes it necessary to be extra cautious.

> * We did have commercial advertisements in the past, and we did have
> listings were it was not possible to tell whether it's
> commercial or
> not. This is especially a problem when web links are posted.
> so hypothetical problem only

It's not hypothetical because it actually happens.

> * These kind of information changes quickly. Hostels open and close and
> usually increase their prices every year. Our articles are often
> unchanged for years. It's simply not possible for us to keep
> these kind of information up to date.
> - it doesn't necessarily need to be upto date ..the info that there
> was a super cheap hostel in a town 3 years ago .is still useful
> today even if the price has changed

No, this can can actually even be harmful, i.e. if you rely on a (maybe
the only) cheap place and late at night you find out has closed down 2
years ago and you are stuck.

So, while more information is usually better than less information,
no information is much better than wrong information.

> What is sure, is that they don't belong into a country article. While
> this might work for a country like Cyprus, there are enough countries
> that have 1000s of hostels.
>
> - It is useful when you visit to have a list of cheap places to stay in
> your backpocket
> it does make sense to keep it sometimes as a separate list

Yup, but only for very small countries (yes, like Cyprus).

> > Free camping is allowed with the land owners permission. It seems
> OK on beaches and forests.
>
> I think we should definitely collect these kind of information. It is
> always non-commercial, it is not outdated too fast and it could be
> helpful for non-backpacking hitchhikers (as they still might get
> stuck).
>
> - governments can change laws

But that happens much much slower than hostels change their prices.

> > personally I'd like to see a shoestringtravel wiki as that could
> be a
> > one-stop wiki and I thought hitchwiki could take that role.
>
> This unfortunately is not practicable for many reasons.
> It might be worth considering starting something like this.
>
> While many (but definitely not all) hitchhikers are also
> backpackers, by
> far not all backpackers are also hitchhikers. Actually only a minority
> of backpackers are hitchhikers.
>
> - YEP I didn't say backpackers ..I said shoestring travel and hitchers
> ..so that argument is invalid

Ok, so let me rephrase that...

While many (but definitely not all) hitchhikers are also shoestring
travellers, not all shoestring travellers are also hitchhikers.

> almost by definition hitchers are shoestring travellers

That is not in my opinion. Saving money is surely the a reason to
hitchhike for many, but there are many more.

> thanks for comments Phil

No worries, let's see what the others here say :)

Kasper Souren

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Apr 17, 2013, 9:58:42 AM4/17/13
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On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Philipp Gruber
<philipp...@flupps.net> wrote:
>> almost by definition hitchers are shoestring travellers
>
> That is not in my opinion. Saving money is surely the a reason to hitchhike
> for many, but there are many more.

+1

I've stopped being a shoestring traveler a couple of years ago. I
hitchhike because it's fun and sometimes even just a better option
than public transport. Saving money is nice but definitely not my
main reason to hitchhike.

I think I agree with everything Philipp wrote here.

Kasper

oo-O-oo

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Apr 17, 2013, 10:35:23 AM4/17/13
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> .. this is called a slippery slope argument .. 

I guess hitchwiki is all about process of hitchhiking, that's what I keep in mind when write or moderate russian part of hitchwiki. Main qestion for filter is "Can you hitchhike here/there?". Can you hitchhike hostel? No? So it's definitely not for hitchwiki.

Also there is another rule from another cite I 'd like to propose. You can post anything commertial at least it somehow related to the cite. For example, it's okay when you post info about hostel but hostel must give you a good discount 25% or even more after code word HITCHWIKI. While they offer to you a discount they will be mentioned on the cite. First refuse in giving a discount to anyone with a code will remove them from the list. I guess it's fair. Commertials save budget for ads we save our money. It's kind a club system.

oo-O-oo oo-O-oo

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Apr 17, 2013, 10:37:05 AM4/17/13
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In soviet Russia rules has you.

Stew Green

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Apr 18, 2013, 5:18:13 AM4/18/13
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Thanks for your input  oo-O-oo , your English is much better than my Russian, but not sure I understand 100%

I guess hitchwiki is all about process of hitchhiking, that's what I keep in mind when write or moderate russian part of hitchwiki. Main qestion for filter is "Can you hitchhike here/there?". Can you hitchhike hostel? No? So it's definitely not for hitchwiki.
My rule :  is the info difficult to find elsewhere ? (ie NOT duplicate)  & Does the info help hitch-hikers ? THEN put it in the wiki
Can knowing about the cheapest place to stay on a stormy  night.. help hitch hikers ? YES

Also there is another rule from another cite I 'd like to propose. You can post anything commertial at least it somehow related to the cite. For example, it's okay when you post info about hostel but hostel must give you a good discount 25% or even more after code word HITCHWIKI. While they offer to you a discount they will be mentioned on the cite. First refuse in giving a discount to anyone with a code will remove them from the list. I guess it's fair. Commertials save budget for ads we save our money. It's kind a club system.
I see your reasoning but NO . I think if something is useful for hitch-hikers  we should list it, even if they refuse to give discount. 
- By coincidence there is an interesting thing. Russia is one country where it helpful for a hitch-hiker to know where the cheapest FIRST hotel is .. because that is the easiest way of registering your visa when you arrive in the country

Stew Green

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Apr 18, 2013, 6:00:12 AM4/18/13
to hitc...@googlegroups.com, Stew Green
People  like hostel owners would be dumb to spam hitchwiki :  if they did this cos the after 1 person found the lie the next 100 hitch hikers would stay away
- In this discussion we keep talking about hostels, but I am not talking about hostels, THE CHEAPEST OR FREE PLACE as this gives hitchers an idea of their options
As I mentioned, this DID happen a couple of times in hitchwiki...  exactly just cos something went wrong a couple of times that doesn't mean you cancel the other 100. Applying the same rule to hitch-hiking you'd say .."We shouldn't hitch, because in the past a couple of people got robbed"


> all you need to is set a limit e.g. remove a listing if cheaper
> options are easy to find
That would indeed be a solution, but I don't think it's practical. It
would be imply that we keep an eye on any new edits and even do some
research. We don't have the capacities for that.
TRUST We are all adults , so we should be able to trust each other. You can't edit it without an account, and we can see the difference between a good contributor and people promoting their own businesses,  then we can take NEGATIVE action against them 

See a recent example here:
http://hitchwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Russia&diff=68380&oldid=67750

What does that look like to you? Could be true, could be spam. We can
not know, but he posted that link into many pages, so we deleted it.
Spam or not : I would apply my rule :  is the info difficult to find elsewhere ? (ie NOT duplicate)  & Does the info help hitch-hikers ? THEN put it in the wiki

 I was implying that there's a fair chance that a hostel 
owner adds his own hostel and we have no way of finding that out.
They might add the worst overpriced shithole as "quite nice and cheap
place" and we have no practical way of verifying this.
NO, they'd be dumb if they did this cos the after 1 person found the lie the next 100 hitch hikers would stay away

>     * We did have commercial advertisements in the past, and we did have
>         listings were it was not possible to tell whether it's
>     commercial or
>         not. 
It's not hypothetical because it actually happens.
NO if we don't  ave commercial advertisements NOW ..it's not a problem

on the argument that info should be kept out, because it could become out of date

No, this can can actually even be harmful, i.e. if you rely on a (maybe
the only) cheap place and late at night you find out has closed down 2
years ago and you are stuck.
Come on do you think the readers are dumb ? they know even the guidebook can be out of date, they know to be wary of out of date info
- has there ever been a problem with out of date info on Hitch-wiki ? because surely once the first user of the info has a problem they have an incentive to edit the wiki with the upto date info
.. THalf of that info I found was buried away on the Lonely Planet forum. The reason why i posted it directly in the wiki rather than post a link was because once it is inside the wiki the info can EASILY BE UPDATED

> - It is useful when you visit to have a list of cheap places to stay in
> your backpocket
> it does make sense to keep it sometimes as a separate list

Yup, but only for very small countries (yes, like Cyprus).
- there you go, we can TRUST ourselves to make the judgement .. there is no point in a list of sleep options for UK, Germany, Russia or 90% of countries, but sometimes it can make sense


 Ok, so let me rephrase that...

While many (but definitely not all) hitchhikers are also shoestring
travellers, not all shoestring travellers are also hitchhikers.

>     almost by definition hitchers are shoestring travellers
That is not in my opinion. Saving money is surely the a reason to 
hitchhike for many, but there are many more.
OK I would say more like  90% than 50% . There was a funny example in Lonely Planet on telling people that the only way to cross a border was to walk up a hill then , hitch-hike  30Km then the book gave 2 pages of info about the  $200 a night hotel they would arrive at .. I bet no one who stayed at that hotel has ever hitch hiked there  

- I conclude we don't need a HARD RULE banning mentioning all places to stay, but rather TRUST writers to only mention it where it's appropriate ie is the info difficult to find elsewhere ? (ie NOT duplicate)  & Does the info help hitch-hikers ? THEN put it in the wiki

Kasper Souren

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Apr 18, 2013, 6:14:57 AM4/18/13
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On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Stew Green <stewgre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> People like hostel owners would be dumb to spam hitchwiki : if they did
> this cos the after 1 person found the lie the next 100 hitch hikers would
> stay away

A link on Hitchwiki might be a so called "nofollow" link but I'm
pretty sure it still helps with rankings in Google and other search
engines.

Anyway, let's work out something nice on Couchwiki or set up a new
wiki for budget travel :)

I wanna set up a bot for interwiki links between a whole bunch of
wikis - that should help as well.

Kasper

Philipp Gruber

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Apr 18, 2013, 6:49:45 AM4/18/13
to hitc...@googlegroups.com, Stew Green

Well, I don't make these things up. We are running hitchwiki since more
than 6 years now and we bumped into various problems.
We didn't make this rules up for fun, we made them because we had to,
because not having them caused problems in the past.

> People like hostel owners would be dumb to spam hitchwiki : if they
> did this cos the after 1 person found the lie the next 100 hitch
> hikers would stay away

> NO, they'd be dumb if they did this cos the after 1 person found the
> lie the next 100 hitch hikers would stay away

In a perfect world, yes.
According to our statistics, there are about 20 people working on
hitchwiki every month, while we have about 60 000 visitors per month.
Go figure how many people would actually update information after
finding out it's wrong.

Also, the strategy of spammers is usually to spam in as many places as
possible. Add your link to 100 travel wikis and if that leads to 10 new
guests, it was worth it.

> - In this discussion we keep talking about hostels, but I am not
> talking about hostels, THE CHEAPEST OR FREE PLACE as this gives
> hitchers an idea of their options

This doesn't make a difference.

> TRUST We are all adults , so we should be able to trust each other.
> You can't edit it without an account, and we can see the difference
> between a good contributor and people promoting their own businesses,
> then we can take NEGATIVE action against them

Sorry, but that is rather naive.
Everyone can sign up and post spam, it just takes 2 minutes.
Even bots can sign up totally automated without any human interaction
and post spam. This has caused us a lot of problems and still does. It's
a pretty exhausting fight.
In other words: No, we absolutely can't trust anyone who edits here,
unfortunately.

> NO if we don't ave commercial advertisements NOW ..it's not a
> problem

Yes is it. We don't know whether we have spam in the wiki and this is
very hard to find out.
But we had spam in the past and we will get spam in the future.
And we also had spam, that we only found years after it was posted.
If there is nothing NOW, than only because we did a good job in deleting it.

> Come on do you think the readers are dumb ? they know even the
> guidebook can be out of date, they know to be wary of out of date
> info - has there ever been a problem with out of date info on
> Hitch-wiki ?

How can we know that?

> because surely once the first user of the info has a
> problem they have an incentive to edit the wiki with the upto date
> info ..

Most people don't do that.

> THalf of that info I found was buried away on the Lonely
> Planet forum. The reason why i posted it directly in the wiki rather
> than post a link was because once it is inside the wiki the info can
> EASILY BE UPDATED

On the other hand, in a Forum you can easily see how old any entry is.
In a wiki, this is very hard, for most users almost impossible.


Stew Green

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Apr 19, 2013, 6:17:54 AM4/19/13
to hitc...@googlegroups.com, Stew Green
The argument that we shouldn't put info in cos it might get out of date is weak..it's a wiki all users can and SHOULD update not a printed book
 MAKE a rule : Time sensitve info should have a date next to it.
and a comment like "this wiki belongs to you, if you find any info out of date please help others by updating it" .. (that after all is the benefit of a wiki over a book)
According to our statistics, there are about 20 people working on 
hitchwiki every month, while we have about 60 000 visitors per month.
Go figure how many people would actually update information after
finding out it's wrong.
in my experience web companies hype the traffic figures ..but when you check much of that 60,000 is probably bots anyway 

Also, the strategy of spammers is usually to spam in as many places as
possible. Add your link to 100 travel wikis and if that leads to 10 new
guests, it was worth it.
I still say damage to reputation is more important that spamming in many businesses 
 
We didn't make this rules up for fun,
> TRUST We are all adults , so we should be able to trust each other. 

Sorry, but that is rather naive.
Even bots can sign up totally automated without any human interaction 
and post spam. 
OK Philip I thought the wiki was better protected against bots ..hope WE can fix that 

> Come on do you think the readers are dumb ? they know even the 
> guidebook can be out of date, they know to be wary of out of date
> info - has there ever been a problem with out of date info on
> Hitch-wiki ?
How can we know that?
well have people complained ?


Stew Green

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Apr 19, 2013, 6:20:37 AM4/19/13
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Please speak people : We welcome your opinion
I know I have a big mouth, but the more opinions the better

Mikael Korpela

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Apr 19, 2013, 6:40:07 AM4/19/13
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Stew, I agree with Philipp on this. 

Was there some problem on putting such info to Wikivoyage? http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Main_Page

Also feel free to comment at http://wiki.yt/en/Budgettravel.wiki.yt

Cheers,
Mikael


Stew Green

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Apr 22, 2013, 10:53:26 AM4/22/13
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Yes Mikael there was a problem putting that info on Wikivoyage 
- 1. I had 2 lists of BARGAIN accommodation, The accommodation on wikivoyage covered "There are countless hotels and hotel apartments of varying degrees of luxury within Cyprus. Some of the hotels are: Kefalos Beach Tourist Village, Holiday Inn, Le Meridien" blah blah so it didn't seem to fit
- 2. I don't like to share t bargain stuff with the type of people who ruin it 
- 3. The whole page was a flaming mess whereas the hitchwiki was simple and clear  and couchwiki empty,
Cyprus is essentially one island easy to travel around, but wikivoyage makes it look like 2 different countries .. so I would have to totally re-engineer the page to make it make sense for us travellers 

Stew Green

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Apr 22, 2013, 11:09:24 AM4/22/13
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- Mikael i just commented on the other thread about creating a completely new wiki
- Did I say that we should already have a rule that time sensitive data has a date next to it ?

Ralf Platschkowski

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Apr 22, 2013, 11:26:29 AM4/22/13
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Which time sensitive data do you mean?


2013/4/22 Stew Green <stewgre...@gmail.com>:

Philipp Gruber

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Apr 22, 2013, 9:03:04 PM4/22/13
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On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 07:53:26AM -0700, Stew Green wrote:
> Yes Mikael there was a problem putting that info on Wikivoyage
> - 1. I had 2 lists of BARGAIN accommodation, The accommodation on wikivoyage<http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Cyprus>covered "There
> are countless hotels and hotel apartments of varying degrees of luxury
> within Cyprus. Some of the hotels are: Kefalos Beach Tourist Village,
> Holiday Inn, Le Meridien" blah blah so it didn't seem to fit

But it does fit. I've been working on wikivoyage since a couple of years
and they generally try to have 3 sections under sleep: Budget,
Mid-Range, Splurge.
Just because this isn't the case in the Cyprus page doesn't mean that
you are limited in what you may add.
To me your info fits there perfectly well.

> - 2. I don't like to share t bargain stuff with the type of people who ruin
> it

Ruin it by what?

> - 3. The whole page was a flaming mess whereas the hitchwiki was simple and
> clear and couchwiki empty,
> Cyprus is essentially one island easy to travel around, but wikivoyage
> makes it look like 2 different countries .. so I would have to totally
> re-engineer the page to make it make sense for us travellers

I do understand that this can be disappointing sometimes, but that's how
wikis works.
If the page is not structured well enough, then I'd say fixing it is the
way to go, not moving content to a different wiki.

Philipp Gruber

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Apr 22, 2013, 9:08:39 PM4/22/13
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> Which time sensitive data do you mean?

Hostels, public transport... especially prices for these as they tend to
change every year.
Sometimes also hitchhiking places, especially when there are
constructions going on.
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