Road Sign Clutter

[David]

Do you think there is too much road sign clutter in Hitchin? Are there
too many illuminated bollards in Queen Street? Elsewhere? Is it safer
to leave just essential signs and road markings to avoid information
overload?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/7049394.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/6225009.stm

[Kalvis]

I think you might be right. We ought to get some photos to show
this. Say, make a file with photos of the top 10 worst examples.

[Kalvis]

There is more information here:

http://www.cpre.org.uk/campaigns/transport/rural-transport/rural-transport-roadside-clutter

[Bill Bowker]

A classic example of road sign clutter is the approach to St
Ippolyts cross roads from the south. I submited photos to R Thake (at
his request) a couple of years ago with nil result. On the other
hand, the Hermitage Road traffic lights packed up for a while last
week without catastrophic result.
Bill

[Kalvis Jansons]

Do you still have the photo that you mentioned? If so, can you send it?

2009/12/10 Bill Bowker <bowke...@ntlworld.com>:

[Bill Bowker]

Kalvis
I don't have the photo in my library which means its a print in a
shoe box somewhere. I'll look, may be a day or two
Bill

[Kalvis Jansons]

OK. If we collect enough, we might be able to make a good case.

2009/12/11 Bill Bowker <bowke...@ntlworld.com>:

[Judy Jansons]

Here is the photograph from Bill Bowker of the approach to St Ippolyts
crossroads from the south that he mentioned in an earlier message on
this topic.

[Clarke Family]

It's astonishing how the highway authority can get away with disfiguring the
landscape in the cause of so-called 'safety' (which they never seem to have
to justify). The area in Hitchin that drives me batty is Queen Street,
littered with plastic bollards all along its length. Try driving along
there at night & count how many internally illuminated bollards there are .
. . & most of them are damaged, dirty, lopsided etc. It's a Conservation
Area, but even the Conservation Officers don't try to oppose the highway
engineers.
Just occasionally mockery works. The only time in my experience that we've
ever got HCC to remove something daft they installed was the ironically
shaped plastic bollards they put on the tiny roundabout on Walsworth /
Verulam Rds; we published a cartoon version of them as teletubbies dancing
on the roundabout & HCC then decided they reduced visibility across the
roundabout . . .
Happy New Year all - keep smiling!
Ellie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.127/2603 - Release Date: 01/06/10
07:35:00

[Jeremy Burrowes]

Is there a national organisation that campaigns about this issue and has a
track record on strategy which actually has success in reducing road side
clutter? If so, could we seek advice?

Jeremy

[David]

A quick browse around the internet suggests the problem is present
just about everywhere. There are lots of mentions of local campaigns,
and CPRE had one. It's difficult to find out if any of these have been
successful.

I would guess that the tick-box 'elf'n'safety culture which pervades
councils (and other organisations) is to blame for a lot of it.
However, the end result is counter-productive. The best place to hide
a pebble is on the beach.

The sign which strikes me as completely unnecessary is the one warning
of wild animals crossing the road. Can't we just assume that that
animals are likely to be around anywhere in the countryside? I had two
near misses with deer, both on roads without signs...

Dave

[Clarke Family]

Don't think I replied to this; apologies.
CPRE mounted a campaign along these lines a couple of years back, tho I
think they were concentrating on small rural roads at the time. Haven't
heard anything further about it.
There are other experiments happening of a slightly different nature - one
or two London boroughs are trying out removing all street signs, railings,
kerbs etc along the lines of similar initiatives on the continent. This
apparently slows down drivers & encourages eye contact between drivers &
pedestrians. There are various pedestrian-favoured road initiatives in the
country which favour less signage & slower speeds, but for the life of me I
can't think of their names now as I seem to have fallen off their mailing
lists. One which is vaguely related is:
http://www.slower-speeds.org.uk/home
E

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rosie]

Benslow Lane is pretty bad. Whilst you're studying the pictures on
the road, parked cars, flashing signs, bollards and avoiding the
lollipop person, you could easily run down a few children. And if
it's been snowing you also get vehicles abandoned at weird angles to
add spice to the mix.

[David]

I suspect part of the reason is that, while there are always reasons
to add signs, there is no mechanism for looking at the overall effect
and paring back the numbers.

This sounds like a good topic for us to put to councillors/JMP to see
whether we can engage with them to improve matters.

We have Bill's photo, but will need a few more e.g. Benslow Lane,
Queen St. Anyone feel like taking some?

We have some jazzy hatching down the centre of Pirton Road, which is
not only unsightly, but also creates a dual carriageway look
encouraging drivers to go faster. Exactly the opposite of the intended
outcome.

[chris honey]

Sometime in the last ten years I went to a conference about this called 'Living Streets' run by Transport 2000 in Walworth. I was sponsored by the Forum and wrote an article in the newsletter entitled 'From Walsworth road to Walworth Road'.  If I could find it I would reproduce it here. I expect Ellie could if she thought it important enough.  Mainly it was about bringing streets back to life from being people barriers by removing signage, fencing, crossings etc and reducing the speed limit to 20mph.  It has been carried out in a number of locations including Kensington High Street I think. Chris. --- On Fri, 22/1/10, Clarke Family <snoo...@btopenworld.com> wrote:

[David Borner]

I think you're right about Kensington High St.. There is also a plan to do Exhibition Road in South Kensington, but it has run into a lot of opposition from disability groups, who think it is unsafe. On similar lines, the new diagonal crossings at Oxford Circus, without barriers, are a big improvement for pedestrians. Dave --- On Tue, 26/1/10, chris honey <chrishon...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: chris honey <chrishon...@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: Road Sign Clutter To: hitchin-...@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, 26 January, 2010, 9:54

Sometime in the last ten years I went to a conference about this called 'Living Streets' run by Transport 2000 in Walworth. I was sponsored by the Forum and wrote an article in the newsletter entitled 'From Walsworth road to Walworth Road'.  If I could find it I would reproduce it here. I expect Ellie could if she thought it important enough.  Mainly it was about bringing streets back to life from being people barriers by removing signage, fencing, crossings etc and reducing the speed limit to 20mph.  It has been carried out in a number of locations including Kensington High Street I think. Chris. --- On Fri, 22/1/10, Clarke Family <snoo...@btopenworld.com> wrote:

From: Clarke Family <snoo...@btopenworld.com> Subject: Re: Road Sign Clutter To: hitchin-...@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, 22 January, 2010, 16:07

Don't think I replied to this; apologies. CPRE mounted a campaign along these lines a couple of years back, tho I think they were concentrating on small rural roads at the time.  Haven't heard anything further about it. There are other experiments happening of a slightly different nature - one or two London boroughs are trying out removing all street signs, railings, kerbs etc along the lines of similar initiatives on the continent.  This apparently slows down drivers & encourages eye contact between drivers & pedestrians.  There are various pedestrian-favoured road initiatives in the country which favour less signage & slower speeds, but for the life of me I can't think of their names now as I seem to have fallen off their mailing lists.  One which is vaguely related is:

http://www.slower-speeds.org..uk/home