HTTP/2 and Hippo CMS?

[Gerrit Berkouwer]

Is anyone using HTTP/2 instead of HTTP/1.1 on their Hippo CMS or web-servers? Does it work and does it speed up things? I would lover to hear experiences.

[Martijn van der Vorst]

Hi Gerrit,

I expect it will take until at least JDK 9 for HTTP/2 to be supported in most Java CMSes, since a lot of the supporting infrastructure for HTTP/2 will likely be part of JDK 9.

Regards,

Martijn van der Vorst

[Gerrit Berkouwer]

Hi Martijn, 

would this mean it is impossible to use? The main feature of HTTP/2 is that it uses 1 connection instead of multiple connections from the browser for requests for assets. Since Hippo CMS 10.2 uses more than 50 .js files and more than 20 .css files to connect to I hope and expect a performance gain...

Greetz, Gerrit

Op woensdag 20 april 2016 11:40:31 UTC+2 schreef Martijn van der Vorst:

[Ard Schrijvers]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Gerrit Berkouwer
<gerritb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Martijn,
>
> would this mean it is impossible to use? The main feature of HTTP/2 is that
> it uses 1 connection instead of multiple connections from the browser for
> requests for assets. Since Hippo CMS 10.2 uses more than 50 .js files and
> more than 20 .css files to connect to I hope and expect a performance
> gain...

Besides HTTP/2, I assume the 50 .js and 20 .css files are loaded only
once and then cached in browser locally, so that shouldn't result in
too much overhead as far as I know

Regards Ard

>
> Greetz, Gerrit
>
> Op woensdag 20 april 2016 11:40:31 UTC+2 schreef Martijn van der Vorst:
>>
>> Hi Gerrit,
>>
>> I expect it will take until at least JDK 9 for HTTP/2 to be supported in
>> most Java CMSes, since a lot of the supporting infrastructure for HTTP/2
>> will likely be part of JDK 9.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martijn van der Vorst
>

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[Martijn van der Vorst]

Hi Gerrit and Ard,

To the best of my knowledge Hippo only officially supports Tomcat as it's webserver, and Tomcat 8 does not yet have support for HTTP/2 (expected for Tomcat 9).

It used to have experimental support for it, but this seems to be removed in 8.0.22.

I'm not from Hippo itself so what I say should be verified by Hippo itself before being taken as gospel, but I do not believe there is an Officially Supported way to get Hippo running under HTTP/2 until Tomcat 9 comes out.

A workaround could be trying to get Hippo running under another application server such as Jboss or Jetty, and you may be able to force it that way. However that would not be an experiment I would want to run on a production like environment.

If you do try it, let me know how it turns out, I'm rather interested as well.

[Gerrit Berkouwer]

Ard, not everything comes from local cache. A lot of request get a 304 status code, which means there are still requests to the server. Therefore my question if anyone already tried! Not doing is not knowing, I guess we have to do a test ourselves.

Greetz, Gerrit

Op woensdag 20 april 2016 13:00:56 UTC+2 schreef a.schrijvers:

[Jasper Floor]

I haven't looked that deep into HTTP/2 but it isn't as simple as upgrading your webserver. It is backwards compatible with http/1.1 so you can start using it today as I understand it. If no effort is made to leverage the features of http/2 then you won't see any improvement.  

Also http/2 doesn't require encryption but most browsers supporting http/2 does. This may not be an issue for you but is an issue for many sites that do not want to be forced into using encryption. So this is a factor that slows down adoption of the standard.

A 304 status code does imply a request, but it means you are not retransmitting the resource because it hasn't changed. As Ard said, the overhead on this is low.

Let us know the results of your test please! It would be very interesting to know what you see. I don't think you will notice any difference initially.

mvg,

Jasper

[Jasper Floor]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Jasper Floor <j.f...@onehippo.com> wrote:

I haven't looked that deep into HTTP/2 but it isn't as simple as upgrading your webserver.

By this I mean that more than just you websever needs to use http/2.

[Martijn van der Vorst]

Hi Jasper,

Yes that was what I was getting at as well with my comment about JDK 9.

I also agree that a 304 return is probably a low improvement over most static resources, however they are very useful when creating REST services that provide a lot of content via JSON (but you don't need HTTP/2 for that.

[Ard Schrijvers]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gerrit Berkouwer
<gerritb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ard, not everything comes from local cache. A lot of request get a 304
> status code, which means there are still requests to the server.

If the expires of static cms resources (via intermediate proxies) are
set right, not even a request (with 304 response) should be done
(unless you do a browser refresh).

Regards Ard

> Therefore
> my question if anyone already tried! Not doing is not knowing, I guess we
> have to do a test ourselves.
>
> Greetz, Gerrit
>
>
> Op woensdag 20 april 2016 13:00:56 UTC+2 schreef a.schrijvers:
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Gerrit Berkouwer
>> <gerritb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Martijn,
>> >
>> > would this mean it is impossible to use? The main feature of HTTP/2 is
>> > that
>> > it uses 1 connection instead of multiple connections from the browser
>> > for
>> > requests for assets. Since Hippo CMS 10.2 uses more than 50 .js files
>> > and
>> > more than 20 .css files to connect to I hope and expect a performance
>> > gain...
>>
>> Besides HTTP/2, I assume the 50 .js and 20 .css files are loaded only
>> once and then cached in browser locally, so that shouldn't result in
>> too much overhead as far as I know
>>
>> Regards Ard
>>
>>

[Ard Schrijvers]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 1:07 PM, 'Martijn van der Vorst' via Hippo
Community <hippo-c...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Hi Gerrit and Ard,
>
> To the best of my knowledge Hippo only officially supports Tomcat as it's

Not really related to this thread, but we also officially support
weblogic, see [1]

Regards Ard

[1] http://www.onehippo.org/library/about/system-requirements.html

> webserver, and Tomcat 8 does not yet have support for HTTP/2 (expected for
> Tomcat 9).
> It used to have experimental support for it, but this seems to be removed in
> 8.0.22.
>
> I'm not from Hippo itself so what I say should be verified by Hippo itself
> before being taken as gospel, but I do not believe there is an Officially
> Supported way to get Hippo running under HTTP/2 until Tomcat 9 comes out.
>
> A workaround could be trying to get Hippo running under another application
> server such as Jboss or Jetty, and you may be able to force it that way.
> However that would not be an experiment I would want to run on a production
> like environment.
>
> If you do try it, let me know how it turns out, I'm rather interested as
> well.
>
> Regards,
> Martijn van der Vorst
>

[Martijn van der Vorst]

Something that may be relevant this [1] shows the current implementations of http/2 as you can see Tomcat is only from 8.5+

[1] https://github.com/http2/http2-spec/wiki/Implementations