How to develop a custom and complex Document, Translation and Publishing integrated Workflow in Hippo CMS
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Azahara López
Jul 31, 2017, 5:12:43 AM7/31/17
to Hippo Community
Hello!
Our client is asking us to develop a custom workflow for Hippo CMS, including different roles and domains for editing, approving, making translations and publishing. Every action should be linked to specific roles and document statuses. Translation should be allowed only after some validation and approval of edition, and publishing should be allowed after some validation and approval of the translations. There should be different roles able to edit specific document content in diferent stages of the workflow, under specific document statuses.
So our client is in need of this kind of complex hippercontrolled workflow. Not just the standard and kinda independent document workflow, translation workflow, publishing workflow and so.
We've seen The guide "HOW TO IMPLEMENT A CUSTOM WORKFLOW?" www.onehippo.org/library/concepts/workflow/custom-workflow.html
But it only covers adding some menu options and actions, not related with the actual document and translation and publishing workflows.
We've also read the guide to the DOCUMENT WORLFLOW and SCXML WORKFLOW ENGINE www.onehippo.org/library/concepts/workflow/document-workflow.html
But there's not enough information there to develop a completly custom document workflow from scratch, or how to integrate the edition, translations and publishing actions into a single complete workflow.
I wonder if there is a correct approach to implement a custom document, translation and publishing integrated workflow in hippo, or if there's is any hint, reference guide or demo for this.
Thank you!
Stefan Schinkel
Jul 31, 2017, 5:23:18 AM7/31/17
to hippo-c...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
This sounds more like a Professional Services engagement and not something for this forum. Please engage our sales team at hippo...@bloomreach.com
best
best
Stefan
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Jasper Floor
Jul 31, 2017, 5:41:47 AM7/31/17
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Hi Azahara,
the workflow and events can be tricky. I suggest you look into existing workflows in the CMS and also look into the repository code. I think there is enough information in the documentation, but that seeing how it all works together is not easy. I don't think we have and (recent) example of how this can be done, though you should check out the forge projects (https://onehippo-forge.github.io/project-list.html). There are some that implement custom workflows (embargo for one).
Your workflow sounds very specific. It should be possible to implement this, but it will require some work. If you know what roles there should be and what the workflow of your documents should be then you should be able to define how it works. It's a bit of a broad question for this list, we can better answer questions on details. If you require more support with the design of this it is best to talk to us about professional support. If you are already a customer then this can be done through your account manager.
mvg,
Jasper
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Stefan Schinkel
Jul 31, 2017, 6:10:48 AM7/31/17
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Hi,
We have enterprise features around workflow and particularly with translations. Who is the client?
Thanks
Stefan
--
Kind regards
Stefan Schinkel
Azahara López
Aug 2, 2017, 5:13:48 AM8/2/17
to Hippo Community
Thank you very much for the information.
We'll contact professional services once we get the enterprise version for our client.
El lunes, 31 de julio de 2017, 12:10:48 (UTC+2), stefan.schinkel escribió:
Hi,We have enterprise features around workflow and particularly with translations.Who is the client?ThanksStefan
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Jasper Floor <jasper...@bloomreach.com> wrote:
Hi Azahara,the workflow and events can be tricky. I suggest you look into existing workflows in the CMS and also look into the repository code. I think there is enough information in the documentation, but that seeing how it all works together is not easy. I don't think we have and (recent) example of how this can be done, though you should check out the forge projects (https://onehippo-forge.github.io/project-list.html). There are some that implement custom workflows (embargo for one).Your workflow sounds very specific. It should be possible to implement this, but it will require some work. If you know what roles there should be and what the workflow of your documents should be then you should be able to define how it works. It's a bit of a broad question for this list, we can better answer questions on details. If you require more support with the design of this it is best to talk to us about professional support. If you are already a customer then this can be done through your account manager.mvg,Jasper
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Azahara López <azahar...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello!Our client is asking us to develop a custom workflow for Hippo CMS, including different roles and domains for editing, approving, making translations and publishing. Every action should be linked to specific roles and document statuses. Translation should be allowed only after some validation and approval of edition, and publishing should be allowed after some validation and approval of the translations. There should be different roles able to edit specific document content in diferent stages of the workflow, under specific document statuses.So our client is in need of this kind of complex hippercontrolled workflow. Not just the standard and kinda independent document workflow, translation workflow, publishing workflow and so.We've seen The guide "HOW TO IMPLEMENT A CUSTOM WORKFLOW?" www.onehippo.org/library/concepts/workflow/custom-workflow.htmlBut it only covers adding some menu options and actions, not related with the actual document and translation and publishing workflows.We've also read the guide to the DOCUMENT WORLFLOW and SCXML WORKFLOW ENGINE www.onehippo.org/library/concepts/workflow/document-workflow.htmlBut there's not enough information there to develop a completly custom document workflow from scratch, or how to integrate the edition, translations and publishing actions into a single complete workflow.I wonder if there is a correct approach to implement a custom document, translation and publishing integrated workflow in hippo, or if there's is any hint, reference guide or demo for this.Thank you!
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Brian Snijders
Aug 2, 2017, 5:44:01 AM8/2/17
to hippo-c...@googlegroups.com
Hi guys,
If this is an enterprise feature, please document it as such. It's really frustrating in an open community mailing list, where you can ask questions about publicly available documentation, to be referred to enterprise support contracts etc. when you actually just have questions about public documentation. It is perfectly valid of course to refer people to these contracts, but then protect this kind of documentation as well *or* be clear in that same publicly available documentation that for more detailed and complex implementations an enterprise contract is required.
On-topic:
Even with an enterprise contract, workflow customizations as you propose should be really considered and thought over before actually developing and configuring them. The SCXML portable format somewhat leverages the pain of custom workflows when transtitioning your project is put into maintenance. As a general tip, also think about upgradeability, performance and scaleability when adding these kinds of customizations. I usually go back to the initial problem definition to first find out WHY my client wants to have this custom workflows. Usually, after understanding the WHY, there is a better solution which partially prevents custom workflows. In the ultimate case in which a workflow has to be customised, the SCXML documentation you refer to and the Apache SCXML documentation are your starting points. Don't start on your actual project implementation, but run a proof-of-concept on a vanilla (clean) HippoCMS of the same version as your implementation.
HTH,
Brian
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Brian Snijders
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Ard Schrijvers
Aug 2, 2017, 7:04:46 AM8/2/17
to hippo-c...@googlegroups.com
Hey Brian,
On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Brian Snijders
<brian.s...@incentro.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> If this is an enterprise feature, please document it as such. It's really frustrating in an open community mailing list, where you can ask questions about publicly available documentation, to be referred to enterprise support contracts etc. when you actually just have questions about public documentation. It is perfectly valid of course to refer people to these contracts, but then protect this kind of documentation as well *or* be clear in that same publicly available documentation that for more detailed and complex implementations an enterprise contract is required.
I don't fully agree with your conclusion. The workflow, scxml, etc etc
are all community. Everything that is enterprise on the documentation
is marked as such, for example see [1]. You can hook in the publicly
available workflow in multiple ways, for example by replacing the
community scxml.
All that Stefan and Jasper mailed pretty much boils down to that the
question at hand is beyond the scope of what we can publicly (and
freely) support. I hope you do agree that we can't spend hours on
giving consultancy on quite complex domain specific requirements on
this list. Stefan referred to that we have enterprise extensions
around workflow, not that the workflow itself is enterprise, or that
hooking into it is only possible in enterprise addons. That is not the
case (at all). It is just that some domain specific hooks / extensions
have been added in the past, but those are not part of our public
offering. Everything that is documented as publicly available isn't an
enterprise feature (disclaimer that we might have some document where
we forgot to mention this, but if it is found, we correct it)
Hope you see my point that I consider Jasper's and Stefan's answer to
be very correct, that if something is an enterprise feature we always
try to make this clear in the documentation, and indeed, if we
wouldn't, I would agree with your frustration. Perhaps I missed
something and that a lot of enterprise features are documented as if
they are public, but I am not aware about this
Regards Ard
[1] https://www.onehippo.org/library/enterprise/enterprise-features/targeting/targeting.html
>>> m.
>>>
>>> e.
>>>
>>> 617.901.2226
>>>
>>> stefan....@bloomreach.com
Hippo USA, Inc. 71 Summer Street, 2nd Floor Boston, MA 02110, United
states of America.
US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 11:43 AM, Brian Snijders
<brian.s...@incentro.com> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> If this is an enterprise feature, please document it as such. It's really frustrating in an open community mailing list, where you can ask questions about publicly available documentation, to be referred to enterprise support contracts etc. when you actually just have questions about public documentation. It is perfectly valid of course to refer people to these contracts, but then protect this kind of documentation as well *or* be clear in that same publicly available documentation that for more detailed and complex implementations an enterprise contract is required.
are all community. Everything that is enterprise on the documentation
is marked as such, for example see [1]. You can hook in the publicly
available workflow in multiple ways, for example by replacing the
community scxml.
All that Stefan and Jasper mailed pretty much boils down to that the
question at hand is beyond the scope of what we can publicly (and
freely) support. I hope you do agree that we can't spend hours on
giving consultancy on quite complex domain specific requirements on
this list. Stefan referred to that we have enterprise extensions
around workflow, not that the workflow itself is enterprise, or that
hooking into it is only possible in enterprise addons. That is not the
case (at all). It is just that some domain specific hooks / extensions
have been added in the past, but those are not part of our public
offering. Everything that is documented as publicly available isn't an
enterprise feature (disclaimer that we might have some document where
we forgot to mention this, but if it is found, we correct it)
Hope you see my point that I consider Jasper's and Stefan's answer to
be very correct, that if something is an enterprise feature we always
try to make this clear in the documentation, and indeed, if we
wouldn't, I would agree with your frustration. Perhaps I missed
something and that a lot of enterprise features are documented as if
they are public, but I am not aware about this
Regards Ard
[1] https://www.onehippo.org/library/enterprise/enterprise-features/targeting/targeting.html
>>>
>>> e.
>>>
>>> 617.901.2226
>>>
>>> stefan....@bloomreach.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Snijders
> Consultant online
>
> t: +31102020544
> m: +31645540083
> w: www.incentro.com
>
> rotterdam office | van nelle ontwerpfabriek
> van nelleweg 2429 | 3044 bc | rotterdam
>
>
> Consultant online
>
> t: +31102020544
> m: +31645540083
> w: www.incentro.com
>
> rotterdam office | van nelle ontwerpfabriek
> van nelleweg 2429 | 3044 bc | rotterdam
>
>
> --
> Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
>
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>
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Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
Brian Snijders
Aug 2, 2017, 7:21:07 AM8/2/17
to hippo-c...@googlegroups.com
Hey Ard,
Yes, I agree on all you are saying, as I've also stated. My only point is that for developers, a community mailinglist is a starting point for help. It could be 'demotivating' to get a first reply like "call sales for enterprise support" and does not stimulate a learning developer to ask questions, albeit it is a perfectly valid follow-up to do so from BR's POV. To experience that some people are helping out and some people are directing to enterprise level support, does not feel consistent as a developer looking for answers. I've experienced this myself as well in the past and it happens to more threads in the community list.
So, to be clearer, my proposal is more like:
Make it clearer in the public documentation when/where enterprise contracts are required, because obviously it's not clear to developers starting/working with Hippo (else you won't get the questions here). This helps the understanding by developers looking for answers when and why to resort to enterprise contracts. Then (1) enterprise related questions will land in the proper channels on your side, saving you guys time and (2) developers better know what to expect upfront.
Just that, nothing more :), everyone's POV/perception/answer is valid in this case and, in case I did, I've felt no need to offend somebody, so sorry for that :)
Cheers,
Brian
>> To post to this group, send email to hippo-community@googlegroups.com
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Snijders
> Consultant online
>
> t: +31102020544
> m: +31645540083
> w: www.incentro.com
>
> rotterdam office | van nelle ontwerpfabriek
> van nelleweg 2429 | 3044 bc | rotterdam
>
>
> --
> Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
>
> To post to this group, send email to hippo-community@googlegroups.com
> RSS: https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml?num=50
> ---
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--
Hippo Netherlands, Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam, Netherlands
Hippo USA, Inc. 71 Summer Street, 2nd Floor Boston, MA 02110, United
states of America.
US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
www.onehippo.com
--
Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
To post to this group, send email to hippo-community@googlegroups.com
RSS: https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml?num=50
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Brian Snijders
Consultant online
t: +31102020544
m: +31645540083
w: www.incentro.com
rotterdam office | van nelle ontwerpfabriek
van nelleweg 2429 | 3044 bc | rotterdam
Ard Schrijvers
Aug 2, 2017, 7:56:51 AM8/2/17
to hippo-c...@googlegroups.com
Hey Brian,
On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Snijders
<brian.s...@incentro.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Ard,
>
> Yes, I agree on all you are saying, as I've also stated. My only point is that for developers, a community mailinglist is a starting point for help. It could be 'demotivating' to get a first reply like "call sales for enterprise support" and does not stimulate a learning developer to ask questions, albeit it is a perfectly valid follow-up to do so from BR's POV. To experience that some people are helping out and some people are directing to enterprise level support, does not feel consistent as a developer looking for answers. I've experienced this myself as well in the past and it happens to more threads in the community list.
I see your point. On purpose, I am a bit against official 'scripts'
how to handle community questions. I think the questions are too
diverge to be able to come up with restrictive guidelines. My personal
take is that if people ask questions about how currently the stack
works, we help out in general by trying to point to the right
documentation or give short answers, which are generically applicable
to our stack. When someone has very domain specific questions, we can
point to the public documentation where for example he can hook in,
but for the rest, supporting those questions completely are beyond the
scope of this list...and that is subtle as well: They are beyond the
scope for what Hippo/Bloomreach developers can do for free between
their normal work. We then have the option to not reply, or to say
that we gladly help, but that we can't do it for free because it is
just too much or big. My personal tendency is to reply that we do have
knowledge in the field, but that it is beyond the scope of just
community support. Obviously this does not mean that other community
member like you are cannot chime in. By all means, everyone is free in
that regard.
>
> So, to be clearer, my proposal is more like:
> Make it clearer in the public documentation when/where enterprise contracts are required, because obviously it's not clear to developers starting/working with Hippo (else you won't get the questions here). This helps the understanding by developers looking for answers when and why to resort to enterprise contracts. Then (1) enterprise related questions will land in the proper channels on your side, saving you guys time and (2) developers better know what to expect upfront.
>
> Just that, nothing more :), everyone's POV/perception/answer is valid in this case and, in case I did, I've felt no need to offend somebody, so sorry for that :)
I personally hardly ever feel offended, so from my pov, don't worry
;-) I now also understand your initial point better, thanks for your
elaborate answer.
I think it might be a similar page to [1] which has recently been
added. Perhaps we could add the information you point out to [2] (note
that page needs a menu item, I'll ask our doctator Niels for that).
@Niels, can you take care of this? And also add [2] to the menu structure?
Regards Ard
[1] https://www.onehippo.org/about/get-bloomreach-experience-developer-accounts.html
[2] https://www.onehippo.org/about/community/hippo-community-guidelines.html
On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Brian Snijders
<brian.s...@incentro.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Ard,
>
> Yes, I agree on all you are saying, as I've also stated. My only point is that for developers, a community mailinglist is a starting point for help. It could be 'demotivating' to get a first reply like "call sales for enterprise support" and does not stimulate a learning developer to ask questions, albeit it is a perfectly valid follow-up to do so from BR's POV. To experience that some people are helping out and some people are directing to enterprise level support, does not feel consistent as a developer looking for answers. I've experienced this myself as well in the past and it happens to more threads in the community list.
how to handle community questions. I think the questions are too
diverge to be able to come up with restrictive guidelines. My personal
take is that if people ask questions about how currently the stack
works, we help out in general by trying to point to the right
documentation or give short answers, which are generically applicable
to our stack. When someone has very domain specific questions, we can
point to the public documentation where for example he can hook in,
but for the rest, supporting those questions completely are beyond the
scope of this list...and that is subtle as well: They are beyond the
scope for what Hippo/Bloomreach developers can do for free between
their normal work. We then have the option to not reply, or to say
that we gladly help, but that we can't do it for free because it is
just too much or big. My personal tendency is to reply that we do have
knowledge in the field, but that it is beyond the scope of just
community support. Obviously this does not mean that other community
member like you are cannot chime in. By all means, everyone is free in
that regard.
>
> So, to be clearer, my proposal is more like:
> Make it clearer in the public documentation when/where enterprise contracts are required, because obviously it's not clear to developers starting/working with Hippo (else you won't get the questions here). This helps the understanding by developers looking for answers when and why to resort to enterprise contracts. Then (1) enterprise related questions will land in the proper channels on your side, saving you guys time and (2) developers better know what to expect upfront.
>
> Just that, nothing more :), everyone's POV/perception/answer is valid in this case and, in case I did, I've felt no need to offend somebody, so sorry for that :)
;-) I now also understand your initial point better, thanks for your
elaborate answer.
I think it might be a similar page to [1] which has recently been
added. Perhaps we could add the information you point out to [2] (note
that page needs a menu item, I'll ask our doctator Niels for that).
@Niels, can you take care of this? And also add [2] to the menu structure?
Regards Ard
[1] https://www.onehippo.org/about/get-bloomreach-experience-developer-accounts.html
[2] https://www.onehippo.org/about/community/hippo-community-guidelines.html
>> > Brian Snijders
>> > Consultant online
>> >
>> > t: +31102020544
>> > m: +31645540083
>> > w: www.incentro.com
>> >
>> > rotterdam office | van nelle ontwerpfabriek
>> > van nelleweg 2429 | 3044 bc | rotterdam
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
>> >
>> > Consultant online
>> >
>> > t: +31102020544
>> > m: +31645540083
>> > w: www.incentro.com
>> >
>> > rotterdam office | van nelle ontwerpfabriek
>> > van nelleweg 2429 | 3044 bc | rotterdam
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
>> >
>> > To post to this group, send email to hippo-c...@googlegroups.com
>> > RSS: https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml?num=50
>> > ---
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hippo Community" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hippo-communi...@googlegroups.com.
>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community.
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> > RSS: https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml?num=50
>> > ---
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hippo Community" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hippo-communi...@googlegroups.com.
>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community.
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Hippo Netherlands, Oosteinde 11, 1017 WT Amsterdam, Netherlands
>> Hippo USA, Inc. 71 Summer Street, 2nd Floor Boston, MA 02110, United
>> states of America.
>>
>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>>
>> --
>> Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
>>
>> Hippo USA, Inc. 71 Summer Street, 2nd Floor Boston, MA 02110, United
>> states of America.
>>
>> US +1 877 414 4776 (toll free)
>> Europe +31(0)20 522 4466
>> www.onehippo.com
>>
>> --
>> Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to hippo-c...@googlegroups.com
>> RSS: https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml?num=50
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hippo Community" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hippo-communi...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>> RSS: https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml?num=50
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hippo Community" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hippo-communi...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Snijders
> Consultant online
>
> t: +31102020544
> m: +31645540083
> w: www.incentro.com
>
> rotterdam office | van nelle ontwerpfabriek
> van nelleweg 2429 | 3044 bc | rotterdam
>
>
> --
> Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
>
> Consultant online
>
> t: +31102020544
> m: +31645540083
> w: www.incentro.com
>
> rotterdam office | van nelle ontwerpfabriek
> van nelleweg 2429 | 3044 bc | rotterdam
>
>
> --
> Hippo Community Group: The place for all discussions and announcements about Hippo CMS (and HST, repository etc. etc.)
>
> To post to this group, send email to hippo-c...@googlegroups.com
> RSS: https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml?num=50
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hippo Community" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hippo-communi...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
> RSS: https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community/feed/rss_v2_0_msgs.xml?num=50
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hippo Community" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hippo-communi...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hippo-community.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
Niels van Kampenhout
Aug 3, 2017, 10:06:48 AM8/3/17
to Hippo Community
Hello everyone,
I added a short paragraph about community support to our community guidelines:
Please let us know if anything is not clear.
Thanks,
Niels
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