Nagari Pracharini Sabha wanted to abolish the word "Hindi"

[Akshay Bakaya]

Sorry, for this very hurried rejoinder, very busy just now. But do keep writing in, I do not mind even the swearwords if it makes anyone feel better.

 

Do you know that the society for the promotion of nagari (NPS in Banaras) campaigned against the very word "Hindi" because it is a 100% Arabic word ? (Hindi means "Indian" even today in modern Arabic) ? (thus a Tamil film is also a "Hindi" film). As the well-known song goes : "Hindi hain ham watan hai Hindostaan hamara !" When Khusro (13th century) wrote in any style which was not Persian, he called it Hindi (Indian languages).

 

True the word "Urdu" (from Ordu in Turkish was not used even by Ghalib who preferred the term "Rekhta".

 

The alternative the NPS militants suggested for the Arabic word "Hindi" was "Nagari". Not simply write in Nagari script but speak nagari ! They even tried suggesting to Acharya Hazari Prasad Dwivedi (the light in Hindi in those times) that he change his name to Sahasra Prasad Dvivedi.... It is because of this kind of thing that HPD simply ridiculed the NPS (and thus you may not even have heard this story). Mahatma Gandhi also resigned from the Kashi NPS later and recommended two scripts for a national language.

 

Another relevant detail for any Hindi (or Hindu) patriots on this list - NO Indian language had a equivalent for "India". Or even "nation" (lat. natio = birth) except "jati" (=birth). No classical sanskrit text speaks of anything resembling today's "India". The word "Hindu" also does not exist in Sanskrit until recently. If it is listed at all in the thickest of Sanskrit dictionaries it is only to specify that it is a Persian word meaning "Indian".

 

Much of what we may consider to be inalienable Indian tradition is actually simply a copy of the dominant norms (like the RSS' uniform, taken straight from the BIP in the 1920s).

 

More later,

 

Akshay

 

 

[Agastya Kohli]

Akshay jii - with all due respect, its probably better if you don't send any more hurried rejoinders.

 

This email of yours contains nothing about why roman is better for Hindi instead of devanaagarii.

 

What NPS wanted to do, or what HPD did, or what Gandhi ji suggested, or where the terms for Hindi, Hindu or Urdu come from has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

 

So take your time, collect your thoughts. Form your argument, and then send in an email, instead of illogical hurried rejoinders.

 

-Agastya

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[manis...@gmail.com]

Dear Akshayji,
Jaya Jinendra

Thank you for your very interesting posting.

I was not aware that NPS tried to abolish the word Hindi owing to its
non-Indian origins. I am not sure how accurate this information is, but
if it is true, then it is a really silly thing to do.

Hindi is as much an Indian word as Hindu! Sure, both have their origins
in a non-Indian language, but they are part and parcel of our
linguistic heritage. I see them as Indian or Bharatiya words.

For instance, the word "India" denotes "Bharat", doesn't it? So should
we deny that and get rid of the word just because the word is of
non-Indian origin?

It is illogical to think in this manner.

If others starting thinking this way, Pakistan would never have adopted
Urdu as their national language, as Urdu originated in India! (In and
around Delhi, to be precise)

Anyone who would suggest to Acarya Hajariprasad Dvivedi to change his
name to Sahasriprasad must be off his rocker! I am sure Panditji told
him to what he thought of this stupid suggestion!

Anyway, it is time we reconcile ourselves to and recognise the fact
that we cannot compartmentalise Indian history and culture into
categories like Indian-origin and non-Indian origin. Because it would
be a terribly inaccurate and unrealistic understanding of reality.
Anything that came to India a thousand years ago, is Indian now. Not
foreign any more. So Hindi and Hindu are Indian words. Despite wherever
they came from initially.

And yes, the concept of India did exist for thousands of years in
India. That is why we have quotes from the Ramayana such as "janani
janmabhumisca svargadapi gariyasi".
Bharat is a very old, ancient name. Many thousands of years old. Bharat
is derived from the son of Tirthankara Rishabhadeva (Adinatha), Bharata
Cakravarti. He was the first Cakrvavarti King of India. So the concept
of Bharat as a nation has been around for may millennia.

Bharat / India is an old and ancient country, civilisation and culture.
As far as I am concerned, my country is the greatest nation on earth.

Group members are free to disagree with me. :-)

With best wishes,
Manish Modi

[Akshay Bakaya]

Dear Manish Ji,

I am absolutely delighted to see the recent contributions to the debate
(Shailendra Mudgal, Arvind Iyengar, Manish Modi). In fact I need no longer
continue with my arguments since all you three have said exactly what I
myself have been saying for years. I trust we will get less gaalis now on
this group.

I have been on holiday (Toussaint break) and am just passing thru Paris, but
am now looking forward to more ideas and suggestions. In the meanwhile
please note BBC Hindi welcomes listeners and readers' letters in roman
Hindi. The Japanese have gone for Roman in addition to their three-script
writing system (Hiragana, Katakana + Chinese Kanji) - in Japanese it's
called Romanji script, not Ruhi. The Chinese have also accepted Roman and
call it Pinyin system. And they have less reason than us (Hindi-Urdu divide)
to accept this modern option !

Please see our friend "Manish Jain" (Udaipur) on Google and their worldwide
campaign "Say NO to degrees". That, in my view is an modern innovative
application of the Jain tradition of Ahimsa, going beyond protecting
mosquitos and animals (except boiling silk worms). See "Pierre Bourdieu" or
"symbolic violence" (google). What would you say to Jain's extending the
principle of Ahimsa (Yuddhisthara, Tirthankara, Buddha, Gandhi..) to humans,
more visibly ?

Jai Jinendra,
Akshay Bakaya
www.ahimsaonline.org

[रमण]

Akshay Bakaya wrote:
> Dear Manish Ji,
>
> I am absolutely delighted to see the recent contributions to the debate
> (Shailendra Mudgal, Arvind Iyengar, Manish Modi). In fact I need no longer
> continue with my arguments since all you three have said exactly what I
> myself have been saying for years.

Akshay ji, even I am delighted to see this debate end on a positive
note, with you agreeing to all the points Shailendra, Arvind and Manish
made which is what most of us agree with too - that Hindi/Hindu having
foreign word-origins doesn't matter, that going into word etymologies
is not fruitful, that criticizing the suitability of devanagari for
Hindi is not the right way to go.

> I trust we will get less gaalis now on
> this group.

I didn't see any gaalis on this group. Did I miss something?

>
> I have been on holiday (Toussaint break) and am just passing thru Paris, but

I hope your holiday was nice.

> am now looking forward to more ideas and suggestions. In the meanwhile

Does that mean you'd welcome more ideas and suggestions on the lines
that everyone has given -- in favor of devanagari?

I would suggest to

> please note BBC Hindi welcomes listeners and readers' letters in roman
> Hindi.

Noted. And then BBC Hindi converts it to devanagari - which is the
script of their website. I welcome anyone to write to me in Roman
Hindi, too -- how else do you expect a person to write Hindi if they
don't know how to write (or type) devanagari. But if a person does know
how to write devanagari, then both the reader and the writer prefer
devanagari.

> writing system (Hiragana, Katakana + Chinese Kanji) - in Japanese it's
> called Romanji script, not Ruhi. The Chinese have also accepted Roman and
> call it Pinyin system. And they have less reason than us (Hindi-Urdu divide)
> to accept this modern option !

Hindustani has also accepted it. Hindustani ke liye roman skript pahale
se hii informal skript ke roop me prayog kii jaa rahii hai. Vah chalti
rahegi. Us se kisii ko koi shikaayat nahii.n hai. Parantu hindi yaa
urdu bhaashaa ko bhaashaa ke taur par likhne, parhne, seekhne, sikhaane
vaale log hameshaa devanaagarii/nastaaleeq hii prayog karenge. Kam se
kam bhaarat me.n to mujhe lagta hai yahii hogaa. Paris kaa mujhe pataa
nahi.n. Kripaya merii suuchanaa ke liye bataye.n ki kyaa chiin aur
jaapaan me.n roman skript kaa aupchaarik roop me.n bhii prayog hotaa
hai?

In the end I will just say one thing.

na-tajrubakaarii se vaaiz kii ye baate.n hai.n
is rang ko kyaa jaane.n puuchho jo kabhii pii hai

I suggest you experience the writing of devanagari on computers once
(using one of the links I posted), and you will know how easy and
intuitive it is. Then we will be talking on equal grounds. You can not
accuse any of us of "na-tajrubakaarii" because all of us know dozens of
ways of writing Hindi in roman script. I understand you are very busy,
what with the zalzalaa in kashmir and the Toussaint break, so please
take your time, evaluate everything, and then we can continue.

Best regards,
- Raman Kaul

[Narayan Prasad]

>please note BBC Hindi welcomes listeners and readers' letters in roman
Hindi.

Because it has to cater to the needs of people like you as well.

>in Japanese it's called Romanji script

It's "Romaji" and not "Romanji".

--- Narayan Prasad

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[manis...@gmail.com]

Dear Akshayji,
Jaya Jinendra

Thank you for your letter.

But why the digs at Jainism?

What are you trying to prove by writing things like:

That, in my view is an modern innovative
application of the Jain tradition of Ahimsa, going beyond protecting
mosquitos and animals (except boiling silk worms).

Do you mean Jainism condones boiling silk worms?

Jainism lays primary focus on non-violence to human beings. In fact
Jainism has eveloved an entire epistemological system classifying
living beings based on their senses, and focuses on non-violence to all
living beings, right from the one sensed beings to the five sensed
beings.. With increasing focus on non violence towards the higher
sensed beings.

Jainism enshrines the ideal of Ahimsa in its doctrine. This is why it
expects the Jain to be non violent towards all forms of living beings.
Which is what makes Jainism such an eco friendly religion.

Jainism thus extends Jainism to all life forms, and to humans most
visibly. (Maybe because you sit in Toulaise, you did not come across
it!)

One of the most important tenets of Jainism is:

parasparopagraho jivanam

[Tattvarthasutra 5:21]

Meaning: The purpose of souls is to assist each other.

Tomorrow is the beginning of a new year. Let us start by respecting
each others' traditions.

Best wishes for Dipavali and a mangalmay nav varsh
Manish