jhakaas, phaNDuu, phiTuus

[Jef]

I have heard these three terms - jhakaas, phaNDuu, phiTuus (using
ITRANS transliteration) - used interchangeably to mean "Excellent!
Great!". But I've looked them up and haven't found them in my Hindi
kosh. I am assuming they are other Indian languages, or are too modern/
urban. Could anyone give me a language source?

dhanyavaad.

Jeffrey

[Shastri JC Philip]

None of these words is part of the mainstream Hindi

yet. These are recently invented words that are

catching the fancy of Hindi speakers, and might get

into dictionaries by 2020.

 

Shastri JC Philip

[Jef]

Thank you. I am curious what you believe were the roots of the slang,
what is their etymology?

On Mar 26, 11:29 pm, Shastri JC Philip <shastri.jcphi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Shastri JC Philip]

Each language has certain sounds and expressions

that are rooted in the people-group and  culture in

which this language is popular. Combinations of

those sounds and syllables give a particular "feeling"

to people native to that culture, but not to others

even in the same country even if their language is the same.

 

These 3 words have originated in this manner and

there is thus no scientifically traceable etymology.

 

More new words are being coined in this manner through

Hindi blogs. One is

 

Dhinchak (which means good, exciting, pleasurable etc.)

 

Based on this someone coined

 

Pinchak as the opposite, but it did not catch up yet.

 

Another one is

 

Chorological based upon the rhyme with archeological

 

Chor = thief

 

and Chorological means worth stealing because Chori=stealing

 

The Hindi blogosphere is full of such new expressions

and one word that has come to stay is

 

Tipiana (to comment)

 

from

 

Tippani (comment)

 

The derivation and etymology is clear in this case

 

With greetings from India

[narayan prasad]

BTW, "झकास" is a Marathi word which finds an entry in the 1971 edition of "बृहत् मराठी-हिंदी शब्दकोश", edited by  गो॰ प॰ नेने and श्रीपाद जोशी; published by महाराष्ट्र राष्ट्रभाषा सभा, पुणे.

----नारायण प्रसाद 

2009/3/27 Shastri JC Philip <shastri....@gmail.com>

[Shastri JC Philip]

Narayan ji

 

would you kindly check and verify if the Marathi

Jhakas is the same as the Hindi word or something

different in meaning. Similarity need not imply identity.

 

With greetings -- Shastri

----- Original Message -----

From: narayan prasad

To: hi...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 11:20 AM

Subject: [Hindi] Re: jhakaas, phaNDuu, phiTuus

[narayan prasad]

शास्त्री जी,
    पूर्वोक्त कोश "झकास" के निम्नलिखित अर्थ देता है -

झकास = वि॰ १. बढ़िया; अच्छा; सुंदर २. शानदार ३. चमकदार । दे॰ 'झक्क' ।

झक्क = वि॰ १. साफ़; स्पष्ट; बढ़िया; जगमगाता हुआ; चमकीला । २. दे॰ 'झकास' ।

सादर

[Shastri JC Philip]

Thank you very much Narayan ji for the reply.

 

In the light of what you posted, it seems obvious

that the word has its origin in the Marathi word

"Jhakas".

 

Hindi is very rich, but of late it has been getting enriched further

through borrowing and adaptation. This word seems to

be a good illustration of that phenomenon.

 

with love -- Shastri JC Philip

[Akshay BAKAYA]

So "India Shining" in Shuddh Hindi could be India Jhakaas.

Jai Ho!  couldn't hold a candle to that. 

AB

Le 27 mars 09 à 10:18, narayan prasad a écrit :

[mjha...@umassd.edu]

[Jef]

नारायण, आपके जवाब बड़ा उपयोगी है | मेरे ख़याल में वे दो और शब्द -
फ़ण्डू (?), फ़िट्टूस (?), - भाषाओं से हिन्दी के सिवा हैं |

On Mar 27, 4:18 am, narayan prasad <hin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> शास्त्री जी,
>     पूर्वोक्त कोश "झकास" के निम्नलिखित अर्थ देता है -
>
> झकास = वि॰ १. बढ़िया; अच्छा; सुंदर २. शानदार ३. चमकदार । दे॰ 'झक्क' ।
>
> झक्क = वि॰ १. साफ़; स्पष्ट; बढ़िया; जगमगाता हुआ; चमकीला । २. दे॰ 'झकास' ।
> सादर
> नारायण प्रसाद

> 2009/3/27 Shastri JC Philip <shastri.jcphi...@gmail.com>

>
> >  Narayan ji
>
> > would you kindly check and verify if the Marathi
> > Jhakas is the same as the Hindi word or something
> > different in meaning. Similarity need not imply identity.
>
> > With greetings -- Shastri
>
> >  ----- Original Message -----

> > *From:* narayan prasad <hin...@gmail.com>
> > *To:* hi...@googlegroups.com
> > *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2009 11:20 AM
> > *Subject:* [Hindi] Re: jhakaas, phaNDuu, phiTuus

>
> >   BTW, "झकास" is a Marathi word which finds an entry in the 1971 edition
> > of "बृहत् मराठी-हिंदी शब्दकोश", edited by  गो॰ प॰ नेने and श्रीपाद जोशी;
> > published by महाराष्ट्र राष्ट्रभाषा सभा, पुणे.
> > ----नारायण प्रसाद
>

> > 2009/3/27 Shastri JC Philip <shastri.jcphi...@gmail.com>

>
> >>  None of these words is part of the mainstream Hindi
> >> yet. These are recently invented words that are
> >> catching the fancy of Hindi speakers, and might get
> >> into dictionaries by 2020.
>
> >> Shastri JC Philip
>
> >>  ----- Original Message -----

> >> *From:* Jef <bennerjeff...@gmail.com>
> >> *To:* हिंदी (Hindi) <hi...@googlegroups.com>
> >> *Sent:* Friday, March 27, 2009 6:46 AM
> >> *Subject:* [Hindi] jhakaas, phaNDuu, phiTuus

[Vinay]

No idea about 'FiTTuus' but 'FuNDoo' comes from the English
"Fundamentals".

Fundamentals -> फ़ंडा/फ़ंडे -> फ़ंडू

Vinay

On Mar 29, 12:54 pm, Jef <bennerjeff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> नारायण, आपके जवाब बड़ा उपयोगी है | मेरे  ख़याल  में वे दो और शब्द -

[Jef]

However look at the content of this website http://www.fundoozone.com/

fundoo seems more the sense of English "fun" , "cool", "hip", don't
you think? Unless the English word fundamental has come to mean
something like pakkaa पक्का in contemporary urban youth usage.

[Jef]

or here is urban dictionary : http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fundoo

kool and easy going
life is totally fundoo in college

So what is the likely maatraa bhaaShaa source of this usage?

On Mar 29, 1:13 pm, Jef <bennerjeff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> However look at the content of this websitehttp://www.fundoozone.com/

[Raman]

I agree with Vinay that the word Fundoo is from fundamentals.

Fundoo is rather new, and its precursor is Funda (फंडा) with a plural
Funde (फंडे).
Some years ago, the usage was something like:
उस के फंडे क्लियर हैं। His/her fundamentals (knowledge of basic
concepts are clear).
उस के फंडे गोल हैं। His/her fundamentals are round (confused). :-)
क्यों फंडे मार रहा है यार? Why are you throwing fundas? (Why are you
acting intelligent/bragging/acting smart?)

Somehow it got morphed into fundoo with a whole lot of different
meanings. I saw it used on Internet to mean "funny", "fun loving",
even "fundamentalist". But here is an itneresting explanation from
http://www.geocities.com/ashishgupta_iitb/writings/iitlingo.html that
says it is an all-purpose word:

fundoo: Again with that kind of arbit usage which you can get used to
only after living a 'fundoo' life at IIT- but in general anything that
is enjoyable, or liked becomes "fundoo". One can have a fundoo season,
fundoo food, fundoo babe (mind you, here we are outside the bounds of
the campus and the non-males inhabiting H10), fundoo guy, fundoo
course, fundoo anything. I'd say its one of those very few words like
arbit, daya, scope, and some unmentionable ones which is an all-
purpose words; the word which will somehow find its usage for
SOMETHING in every second line spoken from an IITian's mouth !

> > > > > >> Jeffrey- उद्धृत पाठ छिपाएँ -
>
> उद्धृत पाठ दिखाए

[Jef]

Thank you for your fascinating reply. In contemporary Hindi English,
what is the usual context in which the words फ़ंडा/फ़ंडे are used?
What would the speaker be referring to, would this be career related?
Or would fa.nDaa refer to general principles of living, or a sound
understanding of some technical matter? Would it be used more in
daftar or in parivaar settings?

[Vinay]

On Mar 29, 10:41 pm, Jef <bennerjeff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for your fascinating reply. In contemporary Hindi English,
> what is the usual context in which the words फ़ंडा/फ़ंडे are used?

The context is not limited by topics. For example, one can say:

* amitabh kii filmo.n ke baare me.n mere fa.nDe bilkul #clear# hai.n.
* mujhe tax-waiks ke fa.nDe samajh me.n nahii.n aate.

In its singular form, it's also used for a tip:
* ba.Dii ulajhan me.n huu.N. koii fa.nDaa de, guruu.

> What would the speaker be referring to, would this be career related?
> Or would fa.nDaa refer to general principles of living, or a sound
> understanding of some technical matter?

More like the latter but as you can see from the examples I cited
above, it can be about the fundamental principles of anything.

Would it be used more in
> daftar or in parivaar settings?
>

It is informal. Actually slang. So you will find the usage most often
between friends, on street, and sometimes at home too. Rarely in
formal settings.

Vinay

> > > उद्धृत पाठ दिखाए- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jef]

Thank you. I also have this observation, from a non-Indian, about how
fa.nDaa became fa.nDuu . . .

I have noticed many gaalii terms in circulation end with 'uu' . . . it
seems to nearly always have the connotation of silliness or
foolishness: uluu, aluu, loDuu (sorry). So by turning fa.nDaa to
fa.nDuu the sense of the word is inverted and made comical.

Thank you for the education! I must be very careful to keep my
understanding of the 'slanguage' separate from my uchit hindi. ;-)

[Shastri JC Philip]

Jef,

 

while your observation about many profane

words ending with "uu" is right, the meaning

you attributed to the ending is not right.

 

This ending is used to denote a person given to

do what the root word denotes. For example,

let us pick up a vulgar word that denotes

sexual license. Adding "uu" ending would usually

denote a fellow given to that kind of activity.

 

Ulluu and Aluu (Aloo) are nouns and the endings

are an integral part of the word. The third word

you mentioned might be used in certain limited

Hindi circles as profanity, but is not a common profanity.

 

The most common such word is the (profane word for

rectum) + a uu ending. This word is understood all over

the Hindi speaking world.

 

Shastri JC Philip

www.Sarathi.info

----- Original Message -----

From: Jef

To: हिंदी (Hindi)

[Jef]

Thank you for the clarification.

Also I have a question about Vinay's example "mujhe tax-waiks ke

fa.nDe samajh me.n nahii.n aate. "

In this example is "tax-waiks" meaning English "tax weeks" (the UK tax
accounting term)?

thank you.

On Mar 31, 11:00 am, Shastri JC Philip <shastri.jcphi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Shastri JC Philip]

Jeff,

 

among world languages, Hindi-speakers have a very peculiar

habit: they add rhyming (but meaningless) words

to emphasize certain words. This is seen only in spoken

language, (and also on some occasions when a speech is

reported in print). There is no grammatical basis for this usage,

but a native Hindi speaker (such as I, born to parents

who speak another language but who picked up Hindi

as his first language) gets enormous pleasure in this

repetition.

 

Thus in our oral communication we say

 

Ghar-wur

Tax-wax (which has become waiks in the example you cited)

Pencil-wencil

Khana-wana

Gaadi-waadi

 

It comes naturally to the natives. The second word is

totally meaningless and you would not find them

in any dictionary. Nor would a non-Hindi person know how

to coin these words, which comes automatically to

a native Hindi speaker.

 

I have not yet seen any grammar book that comments on

this matter.

 

Shastri JC Philip

www.Sarathi.info

[Jef]

Thank you, I am very much interested in colloquial Hindi. I have
almost finished now Shapiro's "Primer of Modern Standard Hindi" and
what I learn on the Internet is a wonderful supplement. The more I
learn of Hindi the more enjoyable the study has become. Though I
believe I learned more from Shapiro's book than from 2 years of
college Hindi, I am learning even more from these informal chats with
you and my friends elsewhere.

On Mar 31, 11:45 am, Shastri JC Philip <shastri.jcphi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> among world languages, Hindi-speakers have a very peculiar
> habit: they add rhyming (but meaningless) words
> to emphasize certain words. This is seen only in spoken
> language, (and also on some occasions when a speech is
> reported in print). There is no grammatical basis for this usage,
> but a native Hindi speaker (such as I, born to parents
> who speak another language but who picked up Hindi
> as his first language) gets enormous pleasure in this
> repetition.
>
> Thus in our oral communication we say
>
> Ghar-wur
> Tax-wax (which has become waiks in the example you cited)
> Pencil-wencil
> Khana-wana
> Gaadi-waadi
>
> It comes naturally to the natives. The second word is
> totally meaningless and you would not find them
> in any dictionary. Nor would a non-Hindi person know how
> to coin these words, which comes automatically to
> a native Hindi speaker.
>
> I have not yet seen any grammar book that comments on
> this matter.
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Vinay]

The phenomenon is called "Reduplication" and, as explained by
Shastriji, it is a very common device in Hindi. There are a lot of
words/phrases in Hindi that use reduplication to add meaning, change
emphasis, and often to create new meaning. The term given for this
phenomenon is 'punaruktataa' (पुनरुक्तता) in Hindi grammar. There are
two kinds of punarukta (पुनरुक्त) words in Hindi.

1) puurNa punarukt / पूर्ण पुनरुक्त (completely repeated)
Same word is repeated.
e.g.:
kabhii-kabhii कभी-कभी
dhiire-dhiire धीरे-धीरे
chalate-chalate चलते-चलते

Note that the meaning of these words are different than their single
word version counterparts.

2) apuurNa punarukt / अपूर्ण पुनरुक्त (half repeated)
A similar sounding word (saanupraas / सानुप्रास) makes the other half
of the pair. The other word can be a meaningful word or a meaningless
sound.
e.g.:
aas-paas आस-पास
kaam-dhaam काम-धाम
baat-chiit बातचीत
jaise taise जैसे तैसे

Then there is a generalization marker that can be used with almost any
word. It basically adds a meaning of 'वगैरह' or 'and related things'
but can various connotations. In Hindi, normally it is done by
repeating the word after changing its first syllable to व('v/w') (it
is prevalent in other Indian languages too with different forms. E.g.
in Punjabi the syllable normally changes to 'sh'). This is what you
are seeing in the example टैक्स-वैक्स. It simply means 'tax, etc'.
Apart from the ones provided by Shastriji, some other examples could
be:

चाय-वाय
रहना-वहना
अँगरेज़ी-वँगरेज़ी

Vinay

On Mar 31, 12:45 pm, Shastri JC Philip <shastri.jcphi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> among world languages, Hindi-speakers have a very peculiar
> habit: they add rhyming (but meaningless) words
> to emphasize certain words. This is seen only in spoken
> language, (and also on some occasions when a speech is
> reported in print). There is no grammatical basis for this usage,
> but a native Hindi speaker (such as I, born to parents
> who speak another language but who picked up Hindi
> as his first language) gets enormous pleasure in this
> repetition.
>
> Thus in our oral communication we say
>
> Ghar-wur
> Tax-wax (which has become waiks in the example you cited)
> Pencil-wencil
> Khana-wana
> Gaadi-waadi
>
> It comes naturally to the natives. The second word is
> totally meaningless and you would not find them
> in any dictionary. Nor would a non-Hindi person know how
> to coin these words, which comes automatically to
> a native Hindi speaker.
>
> I have not yet seen any grammar book that comments on
> this matter.
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[Vinay]

Forgot to add that some reduplication can be seen in English too,
although nowhere close to the degree it is seen in Indian languages.
The replaced syllable in English is generally 'shm'.

E.g.:
Money-shmoney
Google-shmoogle

I think meaning-wise it works the same. Knowing that can help English
speakers understand the Hindi usage somewhat.

Vinay

[Akshay BAKAYA]

Echo words are a characteristic not just of Hindi but all South Asian languages (shaadi-vaadi, naukri-shaukri) and, though they aren't used as stand alones, cannot be described as meaningless. They have a definite function (I'm sure you'll get explanations from others), just like South Asian reduplication has definite functions (do-do samosé, thanda-thanda pani, piché-piché aana, koné-koné mé, baccha-bachha jaanta hai, etc.).

The echo word is the same as the word it echoes, except the first consonant : v- in Hindi, sh- in panjabi, bi- in marathi etc. Google "echo words South Asia" you'll surely find something.

Since Salman Rushdie's Midnight's Children ("what is all this writing-shiting" says Padma, I think?) echo-words, which are used while speaking English too ('with wine-shine yaar!')  have been popularized beyond South Asia..! 

Akshay Bakaya 

INALCO, Paris 

Le 31 mars 09 à 18:45, Shastri JC Philip a écrit :

[Shastri JC Philip]

I am grateful to you Vinay for the additional

information that you provided -- particularly

about the two kinds of repetitions.

 

By the way, I have never come across repetition

in English. Are you sure this is found among

native speakers of English? Or is it an Indian

phenomenon?

 

Shastri

----- Original Message -----

From: Vinay

To: हिंदी (Hindi)

Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:01 PM

Subject: [Hindi] Re: jhakaas, phaNDuu, phiTuus

[Shastri JC Philip]

I am grateful to you Vinay for the additional

information that you provided -- particularly

about the two kinds of reduplications.

 

By the way, I have never come across repetition

in English. Are you sure this is found among

native speakers of English? Or is it an Indian

phenomenon?

 

Shastri

----- Original Message -----

From: Vinay

To: हिंदी (Hindi)

Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:01 PM

Subject: [Hindi] Re: jhakaas, phaNDuu, phiTuus

[narayan prasad]

<< among world languages, Hindi-speakers have a very peculiar habit >>

This peculiarity is typical of other Indian languages as well, including the Dravidian languages, such as Kannada. इस सन्दर्भ में उड़िया से एक कहानी का अंश थोड़ा-थोड़ा ध्यान में आता है जिसमें पुलिस एक लड़की को पूछती है (passage translated into Hindi) -

पु॰ - तुम नलिनी को जानती हो ?

ल॰ - नलिनी-फलिनी को मैं नहीं जानती ।

पु॰ - फलिनी को जानने की जरूरत नहीं है ...

 

<< I have not yet seen any grammar book that comments on this matter.>>

 

Please refer to the Hindi grammar by Dr Zalman Dymshits -- "अपूर्ण पुनरुक्ति" ( Частичные повторы ) under "संज्ञाओं की पुनरुक्ति" ( ПОВТОРЫ ИМЕН СУЩЕСТВИТЕЛьНЫХ ).

----Narayan Prasad

2009/3/31 Shastri JC Philip <shastri....@gmail.com>

[Jef]

Thank you sab baabuu jii :-)

I have added these comments to my study lessons. I also remember that
echoing or reduplication is common in Yiddish and that has found it's
way into humorous English as a way to humorously denigrate: "Money,
shmoney!"

> ...
>
> read more »

[Jef]

Vinay your post had not yet shown up when I used the same example. I
do believe it is very common in Yiddish, as another language example.

here is Wikipedia so now we know it must be true ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shm-reduplication

[narayan prasad]

<< The term given for this phenomenon is 'punaruktataa' (पुनरुक्तता) in Hindi grammar. >>

 

A word such as "पुनरुक्तता" is not recognized as standard Hindi. I do not think that such a word will be used in Hindi grammar. The suffix "-ति" is directly applied to the Sanskrit धातु to get पुनरुक्ति. Similarly शान्ति (and not शान्तता), क्रान्ति ( and not क्रान्तता) etc.

----Narayan Prasad

 

३१ मार्च २००९ २२:४६ को, Vinay <vinay...@gmail.com> ने लिखा:

[Vinay]

Thanks Narayan ji. Point noted. IIRC though, the grammar book I
referred to had it as 'पुनरुक्तता'. I will try to find the name of the
book.

IMHO, 'पुनरुक्ति' gives the meaning of 'something that was repeated'.
While by 'पुनरुक्तता' I think of 'repetitiveness'.

Also, I would be interested to know if it will work as you say with
उपयुक्त, संयुक्त, etc.. For example, what will be the word for
'appropriateness' (if for a moment we consider that appropriate =
उपयुक्त): उपयुक्तता or, उपयुक्ति?

Vinay

On Apr 1, 1:06 am, narayan prasad <hin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> << The term given for this phenomenon is 'punaruktataa' (पुनरुक्तता) in
> Hindi grammar. >>
>
> A word such as "पुनरुक्तता" is not recognized as standard Hindi. I do not
> think that such a word will be used in Hindi grammar. The suffix "-ति" is
> directly applied to the Sanskrit धातु to get पुनरुक्ति. Similarly शान्ति
> (and not शान्तता), क्रान्ति ( and not क्रान्तता) etc.
>
> ----Narayan Prasad
>

> ३१ मार्च २००९ २२:४६ को, Vinay <vinaypj...@gmail.com> ने लिखा:

[narayan prasad]

<< what will be the word for 'appropriateness' (if for a moment we consider that appropriate = उपयुक्त): उपयुक्तता or, उपयुक्ति? >>

 

The same rule cannot always be applied in every case. Although both युक्त and युक्ति are in use, I have not found  उपयुक्ति in use. Although,  उपयुक्तता may be admissible here, but it's not euphoneous and on this ground I would prefer the use of औचित्य instead which is very frequently used in practice.

 

----Narayan Prasad

 

१ अप्रैल २००९ २१:३१ को, Vinay <vinay...@gmail.com> ने लिखा: