Canadian Tire and gimmicks
Warren
Any thoughts on what I see as the latest Canadian Tire gimmick?
Counteract Electronic Rust Protection System
- Provides total rust protection for the entire vehicle body, inside and
out
- Used by industry professionals in some of the harshest industrial
conditions for 20 years (salt harvesting, mining, aviation, snow removal)
- Cost effective (one time purchase)
- Environmentally friendly (chemical-free technology is completely
harmless to the driver and vehicle)
47-7906-4 SUV $349.99
47-7905-6 Sedan $299.99
Similar thoughts on this POS...
Scalehammer Electronic Scale Treatment Device 62-1013-6 $299.99
Scalehammer is an efficient solution for solving household problems of
scale build-up resulting from hard water.
Even moderately hard water found in most lakes and rivers and sourced
through municipal systems can cause build-up of "scale" - mineral
deposits on the inside of pipes and appliances
Scale build-up is accelerated by heat - it is most severe in appliances
like kettles and coffee makers, and in your hot water heater
The scale inhibits the efficiency of these items which means they are
using more energy
Scalehammer uses magnetic waves to reduce the molecular attraction of
scale particles to prevent scale build-up in pipes and appliances, and
over time reduce the existing scale deposits
Environmentally friendly - no chemicals or salt are added to the water
Prolongs the life of your hot water heater and appliances, and maintains
their energy efficiency
Steve Mackie
>
> Counteract Electronic Rust Protection System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection
> Similar thoughts on this POS...
>
> Scalehammer Electronic Scale Treatment Device 62-1013-6 $299.99
Can't help you with that one, we use a precious metal watercare system
to remove solids and biologicals from water.
Steve
Nathan
the car similar to what they do with a ship. My thought is that this is a
piece of junk. The reason a cothidic charge works on ships is due to the
fact that they are immersed in salt water. Cars are never immersed in a
solution. Instead rust ussually develops when water gets trapped in cracks
and crevices. This can create a situation that no ammount of overal
cathodic charge will prevent. IE: crevice corrosion and galvanic corrossion
between 2 closely located portions of metal with sligtly varried
compositions. We joked about a system like this in a corrosion course I
took.
Nathan
"Warren" <war...@ns.dot.sympatico.dot.ca> wrote in message
news:450AAF70...@ns.dot.sympatico.dot.ca...
*.**.***
formed an opinion against these products.
In article <450AAF70...@ns.dot.sympatico.dot.ca>,
war...@ns.dot.sympatico.dot.ca says...
Warren
When an item is advertised with techno babble it makes me wonder how
good it truly is. Both these devices fit the category of seemingly too
good to be true. I'm looking for other opinions or comments which will
justify my thoughts. But better still would be for someone to prove me
wrong, with information and explanation to back it up.
Stoker
is putting on their new cars. Not undercoating, this. If Honda's
using it and guaranteeing it, I have a feeling it's good.
PS the old immersion style of rust protection used on ships employed a
sacrificial anode affixed to the ship. The liquid allowed the "current"
to flow to the anode. This is not the same thing, I don't figure.
Not Me
"Stoker" <Stoke...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1158348396.7...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
his Volkswagen Jetta and Volkswagen guaranteed the car for 5 years against
rust.
Stoker
Nathan
a metal which is anodic relative to the material which you want to protect.
Yes it has been used on ships, but so has the method I explained which is
Cathodic protection. Cathodic protection employs the use of a battery or
power source to apply a current to the metal you want to protect. It is
done to try and turn this material into a cathode relative to its
environment. This is another method of protection that has been employed on
ships. It is less common because it doesn't work as well. For one thing
concentrations, and therefore acidity and conductivity of sea water changes
between locations. That means that a current designed to protect in one
region may not help in another. It's more difficult to employ, but it does
work. The problem with applying the same principle to a car is the fact
that concentrations will be all over the map. There are different ways that
corrosion may occur, but in all casses it envolves the movement of
electrons, ie current flow. When an electron leaves the metal to flow to
another area a metalic ion is solutionized. Water has oxygen, and so this
ion becomes suceptible to oxidation or "rust". I'm not going to try to
explain the mechanism of corrosion completely, but this gives a brief and
simplified description. This current flow requires an anode and a cathode,
or a negtive and posative terminal. By charging the metal you want to
protect you try top make it the cathode. That is why it is called cathodic
protection. I'm not going to get into the various types of corrosion, but I
can tell you that while this protection "may" slow corrosion, I do not
believe it would prevent it. I haven't tested a unit like this, so I will
not say it won't work. As I said I simply believe it won't work well. Just
because a car manufacturer uses a technology doesn't mean that that
technology is good. Infact in this case you are providing a source of
electrons which could potentially increase corrosion. I remain a skeptic.
Nathan
"Stoker" <Stoke...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1158348396.7...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Hawk
it was causing a H2S smell to the water. As I said, I did it 13 years ago
and am still using the tank. That seems to be much longer than a tank should
last.
"Nathan" <nate...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qoDOg.11280$cz3.6515@edtnps82...
Howard Eisenhauer
I am not a physicist
I am not a chemist
I am not an engineer
& most importantly
I Did Not spend last night in a Holidy Inn Express
Not even a regular Holiday Inn.
That being said-
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:49:36 GMT, Warren
<war...@ns.dot.sympatico.dot.ca> wrote:
>
>Any thoughts on what I see as the latest Canadian Tire gimmick?
>
>Counteract Electronic Rust Protection System
>- Provides total rust protection for the entire vehicle body, inside and
>out
>- Used by industry professionals in some of the harshest industrial
>conditions for 20 years (salt harvesting, mining, aviation, snow removal)
>- Cost effective (one time purchase)
>- Environmentally friendly (chemical-free technology is completely
>harmless to the driver and vehicle)
>
>47-7906-4 SUV $349.99
>47-7905-6 Sedan $299.99
>
Theres three causes for corrosion that I'm aware of- chemical,
galvanic & fretting.
Chemical corrosion is what rust is. Rust is caused by oxygen atoms
bonding with the iron atoms to form rust molecules. Immersing iron in
water, which is the next best thing to a universal solvent, will
dissolve the surface layer off the metal exposing fresh metal to be
oxidised thereby sppeding the process up greatly. There are different
forms of the molecules, look up "iron oxides" on Wikipedia for the
specifics. As it turns out rust is very useful stuff, just not for
car bodies :(.
Galvanic corrosion is caused two metals with differing specific
charges being in direct contact with each other. Due to the
differences in the charges the atoms tend to want to flow from one
metal towarde the other. In the other direction whole atoms are
feeling the tug to go back the other way. Corosion rates here will
be greatly accelerated by introduction of an electrolyte which will
dissolve atoms off of both metals. As soon as the first layer is gone
the next layer gets dissolved & is pulled away. An example of this is
a steel bolt inserted in a piece of aluminium. Normally the rate of
corrosion is so low you'll never notice a problem. Add some salt
water & the aluminium surrounding the bolt will be eaten away in
months, if not weeks. On the upside you get a nice aluminum coated
bolt :). This is even a problem with some aluminium alloys that used
mixtures containing things such as copper, the alloy literally eats
itself away in the presence of water. There are two forms of
protection against galvanic corrosion- Cathodic, in which a
sacrificial metal such as zinc is used to get et instead of any
aluminium in the vicinity. There is also "Impressed Current Cathodic
Protection" which uses a power source to run a current through the
metals in the opposite dirrection to that generated by the metals
natural specific charges. Getting this balanced & working on a
complex structure sounds like a nightmare to me & it will only work on
things immersed in an electrolyte, i.e. a boat in water.
Fretting corrosion is caused by mechanical movement of two pieces of
metaltouching each other, they litteraly rub each other away.
All that being said -
I see no way that chemical corrosion, i.e. rust, can be prevented
using a system designed to prevent galvanic corrosion, i.e. cathodic
protection. The system sold by Crappy Tire may well prevent galvanic
corrosion when used properly, but do you really want to keep you car
submerged in water all the time?
>
>Similar thoughts on this POS...
>
>Scalehammer Electronic Scale Treatment Device 62-1013-6 $299.99
>Scalehammer is an efficient solution for solving household problems of
>scale build-up resulting from hard water.
>
>Even moderately hard water found in most lakes and rivers and sourced
>through municipal systems can cause build-up of "scale" - mineral
>deposits on the inside of pipes and appliances
>Scale build-up is accelerated by heat - it is most severe in appliances
>like kettles and coffee makers, and in your hot water heater
>The scale inhibits the efficiency of these items which means they are
>using more energy
>Scalehammer uses magnetic waves to reduce the molecular attraction of
>scale particles to prevent scale build-up in pipes and appliances, and
>over time reduce the existing scale deposits
>Environmentally friendly - no chemicals or salt are added to the water
>Prolongs the life of your hot water heater and appliances, and maintains
>their energy efficiency
>
O.K. to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of non-ferrous
materials, particularly things such as calcium & magnesium. Nor are
the more common forms of iron oxides particularly affected by magnetic
fields either, at least not at the field densites found anywheres
outside of a MRI machine. Come to think of it, if a MRI machine
doesn't make you diss-associate it probably woudn't have much affect
on pipe scale either :(. Stuff sticking to other stuff is strictly
caused by opposite electrical charges of the attracties.
See Above Disclaimer.
But I do know someone who is a chemical engineer working in the field
of keep piping nice & squeaky clean inside & he sez this stuff is pure
B.S..
So There.
Frankly I think Consumers Affairs should be all over C.T.'s ass on
this stuff.
H.
Howard Eisenhauer
I am not a physicist
I am not a chemist
I am not an engineer
& most importantly
I Did Not spend last night in a Holidy Inn Express
Not even a regular Holiday Inn.
That being said-
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:49:36 GMT, Warren
<war...@ns.dot.sympatico.dot.ca> wrote:
>
>Any thoughts on what I see as the latest Canadian Tire gimmick?
>
>Counteract Electronic Rust Protection System
>- Provides total rust protection for the entire vehicle body, inside and
>out
>- Used by industry professionals in some of the harshest industrial
>conditions for 20 years (salt harvesting, mining, aviation, snow removal)
>- Cost effective (one time purchase)
>- Environmentally friendly (chemical-free technology is completely
>harmless to the driver and vehicle)
>
>47-7906-4 SUV $349.99
>47-7905-6 Sedan $299.99
>
Theres three causes for corrosion that I'm aware of- chemical,
galvanic & fretting.
>
>Similar thoughts on this POS...
>
>Scalehammer Electronic Scale Treatment Device 62-1013-6 $299.99
>Scalehammer is an efficient solution for solving household problems of
>scale build-up resulting from hard water.
>
>Even moderately hard water found in most lakes and rivers and sourced
>through municipal systems can cause build-up of "scale" - mineral
>deposits on the inside of pipes and appliances
>Scale build-up is accelerated by heat - it is most severe in appliances
>like kettles and coffee makers, and in your hot water heater
>The scale inhibits the efficiency of these items which means they are
>using more energy
>Scalehammer uses magnetic waves to reduce the molecular attraction of
>scale particles to prevent scale build-up in pipes and appliances, and
>over time reduce the existing scale deposits
>Environmentally friendly - no chemicals or salt are added to the water
>Prolongs the life of your hot water heater and appliances, and maintains
>their energy efficiency
>
Steve Mackie
> this stuff.
Why?
Not Me
"Steve Mackie" <sma...@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:hkQOg.17073$E67.16799@clgrps13...
>> Frankly I think Consumers Affairs should be all over C.T.'s ass on
>> this stuff.
>
> Why?
>
>
I'd say there's something to it.
Nathan
Although there is the posability that they have designed a system that suits
the cars they build after a lot of testing. There is still no way even a
well tested system will protect your car from rust, but it may help slow the
process. The fact is just because a system is in use or on the market does
not mean it works.
Nathan
"Not Me" <Woul...@liketoknow.com> wrote in message
news:x4ROg.21222$9u.2...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Not Me
rustproofing reapplied. Possibly cheaper in the long run too.
Not Me
addition to their other rust proofing applications. Honda (especially the
Platinum shield coating Portland St. Honda sells) provided excellent rust
protection. I have yet to find rust on my 7 year old civic.
ShowRod...@gmail.com
As far as Honda and VW using it.... aren't cars built much better
nowadays anyways?
I suspect cars of that quality could coast through five years fairly
easily with little or no protection?
Then again, I am no expert, nor am I particularly smart.....lol
Warren
Not Me
claims that the electrostatic protection they make will stop corrosion.
They merely claim it will slow the process.
Warren
Blue Wave Energy. http://www.bluewaveenergy.ca/
It is a Beckett Heat Manager, rental $6 per month forever.
http://www.becketthm.com/
Reducing burner time will only result in longer burn times later. The
only time I can see the savings being useful is during summer or other
periods that require little heat added to the home.
I've added programmable thermostats throughout six zones in my house.
Very pleased with their performance, and don't think the Heat Manager
would come close to savings or comfort improvements.
Howard Eisenhauer
wrote:
>> Frankly I think Consumers Affairs should be all over C.T.'s ass on
>> this stuff.
>
>Why?
>
Because part of thier job to investigate extraordinary performance
claims for dubius products. Per my prior posting it does not seem
likely that a galvanic system can be used to suppress chemical
corrosion on an automobile. Nor does it appear that a magnetic field
will have any effect on pipe scale. By promoting these products using
these claims Crappy Tire may well be breaking the law.
Remember a few years ago when the big craze was those belts that
applied a small repetative shock to you stomach muscles, the claim
being they'd get rid of fat ? This is another example of a product
making extraordinary claims using language loaded with "scientific"
lingo. The U.S. gubbermint (FDA?) looked into these & in what was
preaty damn near record time ordered the sellers & manufacturers to
drop thier claims from the packaging & advertising or face court.
This isn't *exactly* apllicable to the current disscussion but it does
make a few good general points that I think everybody involved in this
discussion should give some time & thought to-
From
http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i21/21b02001.htm
POINT OF VIEW
The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science
By ROBERT L. PARK
The National Aeronautics and Space Administration is investing close
to
a million dollars in an obscure Russian scientist's antigravity
machine, although it has failed every test and would violate the most
fundamental laws of nature. The Patent and Trademark Office recently
issued Patent 6,362,718 for a physically impossible motionless
electromagnetic generator, which is supposed to snatch free energy
from
a vacuum. And major power companies have sunk tens of millions of
dollars into a scheme to produce energy by putting hydrogen atoms into
a state below their ground state, a feat equivalent to mounting an
expedition to explore the region south of the South Pole.
There is, alas, no scientific claim so preposterous that a scientist
cannot be found to vouch for it. And many such claims end up in a
court
of law after they have cost some gullible person or corporation a lot
of money. How are juries to evaluate them?
Before 1993, court cases that hinged on the validity of scientific
claims were usually decided simply by which expert witness the jury
found more credible. Expert testimony often consisted of tortured
theoretical speculation with little or no supporting evidence. Jurors
were bamboozled by technical gibberish they could not hope to follow,
delivered by experts whose credentials they could not evaluate.
In 1993, however, with the Supreme Court's landmark decision in
Daubert
v. Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals, Inc. the situation began to change.
The
case involved Bendectin, the only morning-sickness medication ever
approved by the Food and Drug Administration. It had been used by
millions of women, and more than 30 published studies had found no
evidence that it caused birth defects. Yet eight so-called experts
were
willing to testify, in exchange for a fee from the Daubert family,
that
Bendectin might indeed cause birth defects.
In ruling that such testimony was not credible because of lack of
supporting evidence, the court instructed federal judges to serve as
"gatekeepers," screening juries from testimony based on scientific
nonsense. Recognizing that judges are not scientists, the court
invited
judges to experiment with ways to fulfill their gatekeeper
responsibility.
Justice Stephen G. Breyer encouraged trial judges to appoint
independent experts to help them. He noted that courts can turn to
scientific organizations, like the National Academy of Sciences and
the
American Association for the Advancement of Science, to identify
neutral experts who could preview questionable scientific testimony
and
advise a judge on whether a jury should be exposed to it. Judges are
still concerned about meeting their responsibilities under the Daubert
decision, and a group of them asked me how to recognize questionable
scientific claims. What are the warning signs?
I have identified seven indicators that a scientific claim lies well
outside the bounds of rational scientific discourse. Of course, they
are only warning signs -- even a claim with several of the signs could
be legitimate.
1. The discoverer pitches the claim directly to the media. The
integrity of science rests on the willingness of scientists to expose
new ideas and findings to the scrutiny of other scientists. Thus,
scientists expect their colleagues to reveal new findings to them
initially. An attempt to bypass peer review by taking a new result
directly to the media, and thence to the public, suggests that the
work
is unlikely to stand up to close examination by other scientists.
One notorious example is the claim made in 1989 by two chemists from
the University of Utah, B. Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, that
they had discovered cold fusion -- a way to produce nuclear fusion
without expensive equipment. Scientists did not learn of the claim
until they read reports of a news conference. Moreover, the
announcement dealt largely with the economic potential of the
discovery
and was devoid of the sort of details that might have enabled other
scientists to judge the strength of the claim or to repeat the
experiment. (Ian Wilmut's announcement that he had successfully cloned
a sheep was just as public as Pons and Fleischmann's claim, but in the
case of cloning, abundant scientific details allowed scientists to
judge the work's validity.)
Some scientific claims avoid even the scrutiny of reporters by
appearing in paid commercial advertisements. A health-food company
marketed a dietary supplement called Vitamin O in full-page newspaper
ads. Vitamin O turned out to be ordinary saltwater.
2. The discoverer says that a powerful establishment is trying to
suppress his or her work. The idea is that the establishment will
presumably stop at nothing to suppress discoveries that might shift
the
balance of wealth and power in society. Often, the discoverer
describes
mainstream science as part of a larger conspiracy that includes
industry and government. Claims that the oil companies are frustrating
the invention of an automobile that runs on water, for instance, are a
sure sign that the idea of such a car is baloney. In the case of cold
fusion, Pons and Fleischmann blamed their cold reception on physicists
who were protecting their own research in hot fusion.
3. The scientific effect involved is always at the very limit of
detection. Alas, there is never a clear photograph of a flying saucer,
or the Loch Ness monster. All scientific measurements must contend
with
some level of background noise or statistical fluctuation. But if the
signal-to-noise ratio cannot be improved, even in principle, the
effect
is probably not real and the work is not science.
Thousands of published papers in para-psychology, for example, claim
to
report verified instances of telepathy, psychokinesis, or
precognition.
But those effects show up only in tortured analyses of statistics. The
researchers can find no way to boost the signal, which suggests that
it
isn't really there.
4. Evidence for a discovery is anecdotal. If modern science has
learned
anything in the past century, it is to distrust anecdotal evidence.
Because anecdotes have a very strong emotional impact, they serve to
keep superstitious beliefs alive in an age of science. The most
important discovery of modern medicine is not vaccines or antibiotics,
it is the randomized double-blind test, by means of which we know what
works and what doesn't. Contrary to the saying, "data" is not the
plural of "anecdote."
5. The discoverer says a belief is credible because it has endured for
centuries. There is a persistent myth that hundreds or even thousands
of years ago, long before anyone knew that blood circulates throughout
the body, or that germs cause disease, our ancestors possessed
miraculous remedies that modern science cannot understand. Much of
what
is termed "alternative medicine" is part of that myth.
Ancient folk wisdom, rediscovered or repackaged, is unlikely to match
the output of modern scientific laboratories.
6. The discoverer has worked in isolation. The image of a lone genius
who struggles in secrecy in an attic laboratory and ends up making a
revolutionary breakthrough is a staple of Hollywood's science-fiction
films, but it is hard to find examples in real life. Scientific
breakthroughs nowadays are almost always syntheses of the work of many
scientists.
7. The discoverer must propose new laws of nature to explain an
observation. A new law of nature, invoked to explain some
extraordinary
result, must not conflict with what is already known. If we must
change
existing laws of nature or propose new laws to account for an
observation, it is almost certainly wrong.
I began this list of warning signs to help federal judges detect
scientific nonsense. But as I finished the list, I realized that in
our
increasingly technological society, spotting voodoo science is a skill
that every citizen should develop.
Robert L. Park is a professor of physics at the University of Maryland
at College Park and the director of public information for the
American
Physical Society. He is the author of Voodoo Science: The Road From
Foolishness to Fraud (Oxford University Press, 2002).
http://chronicle.com
Section: The Chronicle Review
Volume 49, Issue 21, Page B20
--
H.
Warren
Their Australian web site is working.
http://www.counteractrust.com.au/How%20does%20electronic%20rustproofing%20work.htm
What utter BS.
3. One or more of our unique "programmed capacitive couplers". These
capacitive couplers, which are attached to the protected metal surface
with aircraft grade adhesive, are charged by the power supply/control
module and function as if they were the positive half of a capacitor.
They are wired to the power supply in parallel (each on individual
circuits) and meticulously engineered and controlled so that each serves
to produce a measured and specific limited range of capacitance and thus
deliver a measured and specific limited range electrostatic charge via
capacitive coupling. These capacitive couplers are vital to the
effectiveness of the system and we exercise the utmost care in their
manufacture.
Steve Mackie
> >> this stuff.
> >
> >Why?
>
> Because part of thier job to investigate extraordinary performance
That's great, so why should they get involved with this? I don't see
anything "extraordinary" about any of their claims.
Steve
Howard Eisenhauer
wrote:
>> >> Frankly I think Consumers Affairs should be all over C.T.'s ass on
So what part(s) of my original post explaining the reasons I give for
believing these things won't work as advertised do you dissagree with,
& why?
H.
Steve Mackie
> >> >> this stuff.
> >> >
> >> >Why?
> >>
> >> Because part of thier job to investigate extraordinary performance
> >
> >That's great, so why should they get involved with this? I don't see
> >anything "extraordinary" about any of their claims.
> >
> believing these things won't work as advertised do you dissagree with,
> & why?
Just the part where you feel Consumer Affairs should get involved.
Steve
= Spyder =
http://www.counteractrust.com/
CounterAct technology actually begins where traditional electronic
rustproofing methods leave off. Traditional electronic rustproofing methods,
such as "impressed current cathodic protection", were developed for buried
or submerged environments and have been tested and proven in various
industries for over half a century with petroleum extraction and recovery
and maritime industries in particular enjoying the benefits of this
corrosion proofing technology.
CounterAct electronic rust protection sets itself apart from these more
traditional forms of electronic rustproofing because it was designed from
the outset to operate in a free open air environment unlike traditional
electronic rustproofing methods which require a relatively abundant moisture
content on or near the metal object being protected. The point is the
ability of traditional electronic rustproofing to inhibit rust and corrosion
ends at the waterline or the earth's surface just where CounterAct's
corrosion protection capacity begins.
They have clearly altered the idea to work in a Free-Air state. Seems pretty
straight forward to me.
Cheers.
"Nathan" <nate...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hiCOg.10879$E67.3627@clgrps13...
= Spyder =
pleased with their performance, and don't think the Heat Manager would come
close to savings or comfort improvements"
Maybe you shouldn't be thinking then. Your comparing something you have
tried to something you haven't? Seems like a somewhat immature comparison to
me.
John van Gurp
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006, Warren wrote:
>
> Any thoughts on what I see as the latest Canadian Tire gimmick?
>
> Counteract Electronic Rust Protection System
> - Provides total rust protection for the entire vehicle body, inside and
[snip]
>
> Scalehammer Electronic Scale Treatment Device 62-1013-6 $299.99
> Scalehammer is an efficient solution for solving household problems of
> scale build-up resulting from hard water.
It sure smells like snake oil, plus modern cars don't rust. These things
sound like amazing 'gas saving magnets', or the Q-Ray bracelet, etc.
There's some legitimate science behind the principle but really, just how
necessary or effective are the devices...
John van Gurp
On 16 Sep 2006 ShowRod...@gmail.com wrote:
> As far as Honda and VW using it.... aren't cars built much better
> nowadays anyways?
> I suspect cars of that quality could coast through five years fairly
> easily with little or no protection?
That's what I was thinking too Rod - rusty cars seem to be a thing of the
past, or Fords.
John van Gurp
On Sat, 16 Sep 2006, Warren wrote:
> Another item which I've wary about is the 10% oil savings guarantee from
> Blue Wave Energy. http://www.bluewaveenergy.ca/
>
> It is a Beckett Heat Manager, rental $6 per month forever.
> http://www.becketthm.com/
Roughly $200 retail, or $350 from a local oil company (that's with 15
minutes installation time). From what I read about it the principles seem
to make a lot of sense. It seems to delay firing to take advantage of
residual heat that would otherwise be lost up the chimney or trapped in
non-circulating hydronic loops.
Beckett themselves actually guarantee the 10% savings, I believe. They've
been in the business a very long time and are a highly reputable company.
Then again, that's just some product web site reading. If Richard Trethewy
were to endorse it I would have no doubts at all.
John
Nathan
interesting that they have achnoledged how Cathodic protection actually is
designed to work. I'm getting interested in finding out more.
Nathan
"= Spyder =" <xk...@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:sv3Pg.22040$E67.12035@clgrps13...
Nathan
Nathan
"Not Me" <Woul...@liketoknow.com> wrote in message
news:OBROg.21247$9u.2...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Nathan
Nathan
"John van Gurp" <j...@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.106...@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca...
Nathan
less, but part of that is due to the fact that the automotive industry is
starting to use non-ferrous metal in fabrication.
Nathan
"John van Gurp" <j...@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.106...@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca...
>
>
Nathan
worth the money if it works, but does it?news:R%hPg.9500$KA6.8088@clgrps12...
John van Gurp
On Sun, 17 Sep 2006, Nathan wrote:
> I want whichever modern car you're talking about. Modern cars tend to rust
> less, but part of that is due to the fact that the automotive industry is
> starting to use non-ferrous metal in fabrication.
>
> Nathan
Yes you are correct about that. Of course cars rust but wowie, most seem
to last forever, and it seems mechanical parts fail long before there's
any body issue. My 1995 Subaru is in great shape for instance. 20 years
ago imports were crap, but since then they seem to have figured things
out.
Cheers,
John
Picasso
7 years is not enough time to see the gains really. You are just
approaching the time. I would get that car RUst Checked, and no other
brand, rust check only.
That is liquid gold, and worth the money. Until those Cathodic devices
are proved, I will not be buying one. I can't see it even slowing rust.
I know they claim that device is in use on salt trucks, but I know it is
not in New BRunswick, now maybe someone can confirm that for NS.
Picasso
Toyota is particularly worse than any ford for rust, or should I say
was. The Hondas (speaking mostly of civics here) still seem bad, i see
96's rusting in the same place as the 92-95, and the body style is much
the same, so maybe not much has been done to change this.
And yes, any car will go 5 years without starting to rust, unless you
drive in the ocean a few times a year maybe :P
Picasso
When was that problem with rusting fords? (well, maybe it is still a
problem!) but they had sever problems what, about 20 years ago? I think
they were using recycled steel from aircraft.
Picasso
Not Me
"Picasso" <Pic...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e4tPg.22158$9u.2...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
ShowRod...@gmail.com
I gotta say,,,, I love this forum.
I saw the Cdn Tire ad a few weeks back, and like many of you, it made
me think.
Part of me was truely excited at the prospect of this product actually
working.
The better part of me was skeptical and wanted to know more.
Well, now I know more than I ever wanted to know! lol
I think I will pass on it and do Rust Check!
Thanks all
Jak Jak
group and not post these rants - rants are best left for the wingnuts in
HFX.GENERAL, it's the way it's been long before you all discovered how
to use the usegroups, and it's the way it should be.
John van Gurp
I had a Taurus that was made from panels of compressed rust.
Winston
The only Ferris I know anything about is Bueller.
I have a hard time believing in CTC products now that the really smart
bearded guy is gone from the commercials...when he said I should buy
the new chinese wrench thingy, I believed him.
Jerry Lynds
disclaim the merits of a product like this. The scientific principles are
sound, and have been employed for years. To learn more Google Cathodic or
Anodic Protection.
I personally know someone who has a 2001 VW Passat purchased from Hillcrest
with VW's device installed. This spring there car was in for a tune up and
the mechanic could not believe good of shape the car was in. This car is
winter driven and parked outside year round. Not a single bolt was seized
and no signs of rust.
http://www.counteractrust.com/capacitive%20coupling.htm
John van Gurp
Not that the company with site above would have a vested interest or
anything ;-) lol
Picasso
Yeah we have a 99 honda as well, but starting in 2002, we rust check it
every year... LIQUID GOLD I TELL YOU!
Picasso
I didn't see the posting of "guidelines"
Not Me
I had Portland St Honda apply Platinum shield when I bought it and have
never Rust Checked it and no signs of rust yet.
Bigfoot
I agree with Jak Jak, but now I,m just adding to their misposting.news:VZGPg.22539$9u.2...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Picasso
If you think any product is going to last more than a few years, you are
fooling yourself.
The chances that a car will rust in the first 5 years without ANYTHING,
is not very good anyway. Any place offering a warranty for 5 years with
a $700 undercoat doesn't have much to worry about. Even if 1/10
vehicles rust, surely $7000 can do a little bit of body work....
homebasix
Warren wrote:
> Another item which I've wary about is the 10% oil savings guarantee from
> Blue Wave Energy. http://www.bluewaveenergy.ca/
>
> It is a Beckett Heat Manager, rental $6 per month forever.
> http://www.becketthm.com/
>
> only time I can see the savings being useful is during summer or other
> periods that require little heat added to the home.
>
> I've added programmable thermostats throughout six zones in my house.
> Very pleased with their performance, and don't think the Heat Manager
> would come close to savings or comfort improvements.
Warren, if you have 6 zones, I am assuming you have a hot water
baseboard type heating system. Putting setback thermostats on a HWBB
system has the potnetial to cause frozen pipes if the pipes are in the
outside walls without much insulation. By setting back the thermostat,
the call to that zone is eliminated for long periods of time and any
pipes on outsdie walls can potnetially freeze. Best not to set the
temperature back too far so that the time between calls for heat are
not too long.
WRT to the Heat Manager, we have tried it on a number of installations
with mixed results. Some acheive the claimed savings, some actually
cost more (on a weather normalized basis using degree days). The Heat
Manager essentaillay acts as a cheaper outdoor reset. By delaying calls
for heat from a single zone for example, when the boiler does comes on
it can satisfy multiple zones at a time. Beleive it or not, longer run
cycles spaced at longer time intervals are more efficient than many
on/off short cycles. The Heat Manager is only any good for HWBB type
systems. Forced air furnaces are better off (cost wise) to use
programmabale thermostats.
We are currently testing out some of hte fuel extender products on the
market ot see if there is any appreciable savings from using these
types of products or if they are just snake oil.
Good luck.
Warren
The heaters are on outside walls but all pipes are inside, nothing
within the outer walls.
Looking at http://www.patriot-supply.com/files/beckett_7512_data_sheet.pdf
it appears that it simply holds off the burner until the water
temperature drops to about 150F. The thermostats on my furnace are set
to 150/170, essentially what the Heat Manager controls are. I've
already set the system to fewer long burn cycles rather than many short
cycles. What benefit could there be by adding yet another controller to
the system?
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