Burn reports and pictures

[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

How was your burn? 

Did we learn anything interesting and worth documenting about hexayurts, coolers etc?

Do please share!

V>

-- 

Vinay Gupta    hexa...@gmail.com   http://re.silience.com

Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest

UK Cell : +44 (0)7500 895568 Twitter/Skype/Gtalk: hexayurt

"In the midst of winter,  I finally learned that there was 

        in me an invincible summer" - Albert Camus

[Rob Gordon]

Curious as well.

[Hunter]

It was excellent. Full post mortem coming up. Highlights:

Pros:

Yurts + Swamp coolers made the desert rather comfortable. I liked it better than an RV.

They were mostly waterproof. One of our six yurts had one small drip which is probably fixed with touchup tape we added. Since it only rained once I have no clue if it actually worked.

The vinyl cement and velcro construction was incredibly quick to setup. We put up six yurts in the time our neighbors put up one.

Cons:

The velcro connection to itself was stronger than the contact cement (and the experimental liquid nails) so we had to physically hold the velcro and vinyl while removing it. We are going to experiment with both barge cement and sewing to overcome this.

The garbage can style swamp coolers were notorious leaky because drips from the walls landed outside of the cooler rather than inside of it. We had to jerry rig a tape drip collector on the outside of the bucket to not waste water.

The duct fan we used could have been a touch more powerful. The yurts stayed cool but it could always be better.

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[Jason Adams]

Great update and pics Hunter!

[Alexander Griffin]

I am happy to report that BOTH my hexayurts (a modified H7 and a standard H12) which are both manufactured using the Barge Glue + Cordura + Velcro formula I developed went to Burning Man this year and survived the harsh winds, hail, rain and blazing sun with flying colors.  In fact, this was the 2nd year on the playa for both yurts, but the first time I'd ever had them there the same year together. (I loaned the H7 to another couple.)

I am happy to hear on these forums that many other people have been using Barge Glue and Velcro, and hope your hexayurt's survival at Burning Man was as successful as mine.  For my H12 it took 7 people to construct it safely due to high winds on early arrival, but it only took 2 people to take it down easily.   Both set-up and take-down required under 10 minutes because of the Velcro!!!!!   The amount of time, energy and materials saved was incredible.

Later on I will do a full write-up on the construction technique I did with some dimensions, hints, pictures and extras.  It will not be posted here, but on a website. I'll post a link though.

I read someone else's post about using Liquid Nails and I thought I'd mention this type of glue failed my pre-manufacturing tests, even though the tube specifically mentioned it was appropriate for insulation foam board.   The glue joint failed when heat was applied; it seemed to have no adhesion to the aluminum foil.

I wish I could have attended the Hexayurt meet-and-greet on Wednesday, but I think I was sleeping at the time.....  :-/

Alexander / a.k.a. "Wolf"

[Dan March]

Classic hexayurt setup is time-consuming and while taped connections might be best for anything left undisturbed for long periods, the quick up and quick down demands of Burning Man make taping a candidate for change.  Velcro might have sounded like a great idea but I'm not surprised by the noted outcome. 

It's a tough challenge and I'm fresh from dealing with the consequences of unaccustomed yurt-builders' attempts.  Among other things, I'm again impressed by the fragility of R-Max.  It's really tough enough for its assigned role and amazingly strong "when used as intended for yurts," even though it's not designed for structural purposes.  The envelop is really limited though.  People "misbehave" and bump into it, pull ropes through it, crack it, etc.  We had one panel inadvertently over-exposed to freeway wind and crack to bits. 

I think it's worth looking at somewhat more "complex" designs - something with much of the insulative value of R-Max but with more protection and strength - and more bulletproof installation/de-installation in less time.  So that might be more design work, more "factory" prep work, adding more materials, making more specialized fittings, etc. 

I know that's getting away from the original concept of ""anyone"" can slap these puppies together," I am willing to experiment in another direction to see if a refined product can still stay with the very low cost goal while taking advantage of tech & mfg to make a simpler-to-assemble and longer-lasting dwelling space. 

Part of what I'm looking at is strength to support gravity water systems.

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[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

Sounds like RMAX is a solved problem if Hunter XCI 286 is as good as people say it is.

Tape is a toughie - bidirectional filament tape is great stuff, but there's a whole world of VHB tapes out there, ultrasonic welding, all manner of things.

I've always expected a couple of dozen US domestic hexayurt companies with different kinds of products in the long run: if any of them patent anything which is a block to further Free and Open Source hexayurt development, I'll have them killed by ninjas, of course - the poor aren't going to get the best possible hexayurts if evil bastards patent stuff on top of 10  years of work by the open source community. Commercial competition is important, but patent is a wholly inexcusable tool in the humanitarian sector - for one thing, NGOs won't buy patent technology for anything critical. I want to see innovation, but clean, respectful innovation. If people are behaving in ways which blocks the humanitarian use case, I will shut them down.

But I have no problem at all with diversity of approaches. The fast we fan out, the more territory we can cover!

V>

-- 

Vinay Gupta    hexa...@gmail.com   http://re.silience.com

Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest

UK Cell : +44 (0)7500 895568 Twitter/Skype/Gtalk: hexayurt

"In the midst of winter,  I finally learned that there was 

        in me an invincible summer" - Albert Camus

[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

Ah, those are in XCI. How was it? Tell me more of this wondrous discover :-)

Anybody else want to post pictures of their hexayurts? I'm most curious!

Compared to last year, did it seem like there were many more on the playa?

V>

-- 

Vinay Gupta    hexa...@gmail.com   http://re.silience.com

Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest

UK Cell : +44 (0)7500 895568 Twitter/Skype/Gtalk: hexayurt

"In the midst of winter,  I finally learned that there was 

        in me an invincible summer" - Albert Camus

[Hunter]

On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:44 PM, Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project) <hexa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ah, those are in XCI. How was it? Tell me more of this wondrous discover :-)

The only potential problem was that the gorilla tape we used to fix the rain leak would pull off the foil it pulled hard. Everything else about it was fine (we didn't douse it in napalm to test the flame retardant properties though).

Compared to last year, did it seem like there were many more on the playa?

I saw far more than 2012, I didn't attend last year though.

[Joshua Keroes]

Made one aesthetic change made this year: interior paint. Pic: http://imgur.com/1YdAKSs . The damasque walls are blown out in the photo but looked great on the playa. This one change is such a huge improvement over the R-max logo that I can't even- 

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[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

Oh *that's* beautiful :-) Wow

-- 

Vinay Gupta    hexa...@gmail.com   http://re.silience.com

Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest

UK Cell : +44 (0)7500 895568 Twitter/Skype/Gtalk: hexayurt

"In the midst of winter,  I finally learned that there was 

        in me an invincible summer" - Albert Camus

[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

There were about 50% more in 2013 over 2012. As far as I know there's no satellite picture this year, but I'm hoping for drone.

V>

-- 

Vinay Gupta    hexa...@gmail.com   http://re.silience.com

Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest

UK Cell : +44 (0)7500 895568 Twitter/Skype/Gtalk: hexayurt

"In the midst of winter,  I finally learned that there was 

        in me an invincible summer" - Albert Camus

--

[dar...@chaosreigns.com]

I'm very happy with my beveled H8 square yurt. I really could've used
something moving the air a little bit though, even a small battery powered
fan would've been wonderful to have. I was already thinking of adding
a swamp cooler for next time.

I did most of the set up and tear down myself without problems. I had
pre-built it with hinges. I needed one other person for carrying it, and
putting the roof on.

One of the fun things about this folding H8 was that it was easy to tape
the roof together on the ground, while fully folded.

Using the plywood it was packed in as a floor worked great (I think it was
19/32"). I still need a better way of actually holding the yurt in line
with the floor, but shifting off of it mostly served to give me better
ventilation. And I still want to find some way to waterproof the floor,
which might mean adding a tarp as many do (to cope with standing water).

24" x 1" commercial tent stakes turned out to be serious overkill :)
I only used two of them. I was happy with using clothesline.

[Jeremy Shaw]

This was the second year for my velcro+vinyl+contact cement yurt.
Stayed up with out issues. My report so far is:

1. velcro - awesome! Still works like a champ. No danger of common
part. I used this stuff,
http://www.costco.com/Velcro-Industrial-Strength-Sticky-Back-Tape-2%22-x-15'-Black-VEK-90197.product.11518093.html.
I applied the sticky back stuff directly to the vinyl and polyiso.
None of it has shown any sign of deteriorating or peeling.

2. vinyl - still in great shape. No tears, rips, or other defects.

3. contact cement -- definitely the weak link. It is definitely
slowly deteriorating. I will likely need to do something about it next
year.

I have no idea what the heck the adhesive is on that velcro -- but if
I could find it as a double-sided sticky tape instead of velcro it
could totally be a winner. Dealing with the contact adhesives is
definitely time consuming, messy, and requires good ventilation.
Putting on the velcro, by comparison, was super easy. But the velcro
is expensive, and not required in most places. So, an all velcro yurt
would be seriously over priced.

- jeremy

[Rob Gordon]

Jeremy, What brand of contact cement did you use?

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[Jerry Scott]

http://www.findtape.com/product586/Scapa-S301-Double-Coated-Clear-UPVC-Tape.aspx?cid=11&idx=18&tid=1&info=Double-Sided%2bTape

This might be worth experimenting with.

[Jeremy Shaw]

I used this and used it generously, waiting for it to dry properly
before bringing the two sides together,

http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=46&SubcatID=8

- jeremy

[Jeremy Shaw]

Ooo. Nice! I think I shall order a test roll.

- jeremy

[Vladimir Khodel]

I used it for foam/foil to 500D and 1000D cordura (about 3" wide overlap), and on its third year some 1000D seams did become brittle and separated under stress. 500D cordura connections are still going strong, so it's possible that 1000D stuff is overkill in this application :)

In a related story, I don't see local (SF Bay Area) Walmarts and Home Depot carrying this anymore (only the green water based stuff)... Where do we get it these days?

Thank you, guys!

Vladimir

[Robert Atkins]

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 11:05:15 AM UTC+2, Vinay Gupta wrote:

How was your burn? 

Did we learn anything interesting and worth documenting about hexayurts, coolers etc?

It was the fourth year (I think? Possibly fifth?) for my semi-folding 6' stretch. The wall and roof hinges are still good despite no protective foil tape, but a big strip of the flashing I made around the door flew away at one point. It acquired a few dings in storage, but they were all patched easily enough with bidi.

My only real concern is what I think is mould. There are little grainy black patches all over the foil, with "matching" black patches where those would fold against the adjacent wall during storage. I'm not sure how this happened though—it's been stored in a garage in Las Vegas all its life so far, which is a pretty dry climate. Previous to this year the only time it's been anywhere near moisture was the sixteen spots of rain we got on-Playa in 2012. A little wipe at one of the black patches  with isopropyl alcohol left a black sooty smudge on the kitchen paper, but so did a wipe over a clean patch of foil, so that's kind of inconclusive.

No respiratory complaints evident from myself or my yurtmate, should I be worried? Is it worth trying hard to remove next year? With what?

Cheers, Robert.

[hal muskat]

Most interested in feedback on mold issue.

Robert, have you had it tested? 

[Dan March]

I've noticed what I take to be aluminum oxide forming here and there (mostly on non-yurt aluminum surfaces) which I casually attribute to alkaline playa dust.

[Robert Atkins]

On Monday, September 22, 2014 6:15:26 PM UTC+2, )(hoenix wrote:

Most interested in feedback on mold issue.

Robert, have you had it tested? 

I didn't, and I now can't as everything's packed up in a storage unit in Reno. Aluminium oxide as suggested by Burner Dan below makes more sense though (given wiping "non-mouldy" foil gave the same metallic grey residue on the kitchen paper as a "mouldy" patch.)

Cheers, Robert.

[Jake von Slatt]

This was my first burn in a Hexayurt and it was by far the most comfortable!

However, attempting to protect the filament tape from UV with paint (Killz) was a failure as it had a tendency to flake off and we had to moop the site with tweezers when we packed up. D'oh!

I am planning on building a new yurt for next year with Hunter Xci 286 and using this stuff for UV protection of the Bifilament tape:

I got it here: http://simaintl.com/store/aluminum_mylar_PET_tape.html

It's very thin, tough and flexible though I am a little worried about the strength of the adhesive. I set my test piece out in the weather and I check in on it periodically.

Boston area folks: Hunter Xci 286 isn't carried in any stores in Mass. but there is a distributor who will do 48 sheet pallets at about $30/sheet. Does any one have a better source and/or want to share a full pallet?

Jake.

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 5:05:15 AM UTC-4, Vinay Gupta wrote:

[)(hoenix]

My Burn was very busy. I'm still in decom mode!

We had over 35 hexayurts on the playa. Most erected under our supervision. All our renters / buyers loved their hexayurt. Our core was returning Yurters from previous year.

Only a couple leaked where tape did not seal properly over the top of the roof cone. This was likely due to either too much wind as we fluffed the tape down and/or not de-dusted properly (more likely). Floor tarps not taped to walls took on some water. Like my hexayurt, but very manageable. 

5/8" ply doors worked great.

Breezes were a bitch! Several panels snapped on playa but were efficiently replaced. 

In terms of moop on the road from hexayurts not properly secured for Exodus, Ranger Danger reported that "most" of what he observed was NOT RMax but less expensive cardboard. STILL, it would be a good thing if we could enlist several hexayurt owners to playa / road resto, next & subsequent years. 

Black Rock Hexayurts is slowly growing. Last year, we had 28 yurts on playa. Next year, we don't expect to have too many more as we move our staging to the playa instead of Empire / Gerlach. 

I would love to find several experienced hexayurt builders to join our crew next year. Perks include, ticket, early access, Pt 1 credentials (NO GATE road!), set up & strike crew cook & Reno one night outbound and perhaps one night on way in. 

Long rang plans call for containers stashed north of Pt 1 (Mile 12 - gates are Mile 8) at a venue that would allow outdoor building, "mostly" safe from weather. 

Our experience indicates that 100's more hexayurts could be made available to Burners this past year. Black Rock Hexayurts CAN grow to accommodate this need, but financing and better management is required if we are to move forward in this direction. I'm open to suggestions. 

Peace & Love, Phoenix

[Ben]

Phoenix,

Thanks for the update.
Your new plans sounds like what I want to be apart of.
Please keep me in mind for next year.

Ben