Bulk purchasing Thermax HD or other fire-safe hexayurt materials

[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

They're tougher.

They're not that much more expensive.

They won't catch fire.

I feel like this would be a great year to actually fix the supply chain issues around Thermax HD (or equivalents from other manufacturers), do a container load bulk purchase, and start moving people off R-MAX etc. until there's a comprehensive solution for the fire risk. I really want to solve this problem before somebody gets hurt.

http://www.appropedia.org/Hexayurt_Safety_Information

Vinay

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[Richard Ginn]

Let's make a list of all the suppliers and what their minimum order is, and what price breaks we would get at what volumes of purchase.

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[Hunter]

Sound like a plan. Any ballpark idea of what the minimum order would be?

[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

It used to be about 30 sheets. I suspect that hasn't changed much, although *actually* the right answer is to go through Home Depot and try and get them to stock the stuff in west coast stores around Burning Man. It's just a line in their database, you know, and that would solve the availability problem generally.

Hm. If somebody can find a point of contact, maybe I'll try giving them a call.

V>

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[Lance Culp]

---

Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 23:34:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [hexayurt] Bulk purchasing Thermax HD or other fire-safe hexayurt materials
From: never...@gmail.com
To: hexa...@googlegroups.com

[Chris Jurney]

If other people are in the bay area and want to group buy Thermax HD, I'd be up for that.  We're organizing construction on a new theme camp that will need around 80 sheets for our yurt village, so we shouldn't have a problem with a minimum order.

[Kevin Fischer]

I'm definitely interested in participating in such a group buy

[hal muskat]

Might be up for that.

[Mark Clark]

I will commit to a share. 

Sent from my iPhone

[Chris Jurney]

It looks like Dow still makes Thermax HD 1" panels, but it's special order.  I found non-SF companies that would place the order with Dow, but I'm still looking for one that will do it locally.  Once I find a place, I'm open for taking additional sheet orders from people who want panels.  It's a lot of money to float, so if that happens, I'll be looking for money up front, not after, and I'm thinking we will order a spare panel per yurt to avoid problems with sheet damage, so you'd have to be up for that.  We will have a place to store the sheets once they arrive, but I'd prefer if people joining the buy picked them up the day we accept delivery to avoid lots of trips.

The panels will be somewhere between $52-56 each plus freight (no estimate yet), so top end around $7-800 per yurt for an H12's worth of panels.  Once I have a final price, if you want to meet me and shake my hand before giving me a bunch of money, that's fine by me.  I work in SOMA, so if you're close we can figure something out.

I'll update when I have more details.

[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

Thank you, Chris. I sincerely hope this will be a painless, productive and fruitful process for everybody.

I think you'll love how tough this stuff is: have you seen samples? I used to have a box of six inch squares Dow sent me, and they were mind-blowingly tough.

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help (hexayurt home page?) Good luck!

V>

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[Jason Adams]

Hey all,

Does anyone in the Bay Area have storage for a yurt, small solar panel, and two evap coolers?  My storage has just warned me they are closing up shop, and I only have like a week to find something.  Would be awesome to find some place where I could do some work on the yurt, find other burners, and help build as well... but if anything even some temporary storage would help a fellow yurtaholic out.

PS totally happy to pay, help, whatever!

Let me know ifyou have any ideas

my cell 858.722.2925

[Robert Atkins]

On Tuesday, March 4, 2014 9:41:52 PM UTC+1, Chris Jurney wrote:
>
> The panels will be somewhere between $52-56 each plus freight (no estimate yet), so top end

Holy crap. That is a *lot* more than the $19/panel Home Depot RRP for Tuff-R.

And I want to make a H14 this year :-/.

Anyone else looking to do a group buy in Seattle? That's my jumping-off point for this year.

Cheers, Robert.

[Chris Jurney]

For sure it's more.  You're paying for much thicker aluminum, harder foam, and class A fire retardancy.

Vinay, that's good to hear.  We're looking to keep these things for decades.

[Rummy Raccoon]

I'd join a group buy in Seattle. I have 3 people who want to build yurts this year. I found one vendor who said they could order me a bundle of 29 but then backtracked and said they had to order by pallet which was 4 bundles. He quoted me $48 a panel.

[Robert Atkins]

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 8:00:16 AM UTC+1, Rummy Raccoon wrote:

I'd join a group buy in Seattle. I have 3 people who want to build yurts this year. I found one vendor who said they could order me a bundle of 29 but then backtracked and said they had to order by pallet which was 4 bundles. He quoted me $48 a panel.

Keep me in the loop on this one; I'm in Amsterdam right now but my jump-off point will be Seattle and I hope to build a new yurt this year. I *may* have others who want panels too.

Cheers, Robert.

[Mark Clark]

I'm in Portland and I'd join that Seattle group buy. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Dano McKagan]

I'm in Seattle and know some folks who may be interested.  You're saying they'll sell a minimum of 116 panels, right? Which would make about 9 H12s with padding for bad panels and the like.  I talked to a super-helpful someone a couple years ago and thought they could special order in the 60-ish range, but I can't remember who they were.  Maybe worth calling around?

Pinging the local burner list could possibly garner some more interest.

For kicks, I checked RMax at Home Depot:

RMax (home depot); $19/panel + tax

Thermax: $48/panel (+ tax/fees?)

Dano!

[Snacks]

Hey I'm with a group in the Seattle area interested in doing a bulk purchase with others if it makes sense... we are looking for 1.5" or 2" material, 29 panels minimum.  Because of the price we are leaning towards RMAX. Has anyone started compiling a group order who is interested in the thicker material?

[BurnerDan]

Safety is an issue.  All campers need to be aware of the risks - especially of fire - in sleeping in many Playa constructs, but yurts have special dangers because of their materials and tightness. 

Is there any history of encouraging smoke alarm use and do any/all such units remain reliable under Playa conditions?

On Saturday, February 1, 2014 6:06:59 AM UTC-8, Vinay Gupta wrote:

[Tim]

We'd be interested in a group order as well.

I'm somewhat new to yurt building. I've read most of the guides but am yet to read up on true side-by-side comparisons of each type of material for playa use. I tend to "buy the best" if that makes sense, so I'm attracted to HD. That said, is it actually that much better on the playa? I'm also curious if it weighs much more, considering structural implications for an H15. Thanks for any insight. Count us in if this *is* the "best" option for the $$.

[Dan March]

Hey Tim ~  I'm also concerned with safety and look for materials that really do the job well.... and with a safety margin I'm comfortable with.  The theoretical fire-related risks in a yurt with aluminized interior surface are scary with the lens effect and other concentrating potentials.  Even - or in some hypothetical cases - without the foam board itself catching fire, just having any substantial amount of stuff burning in a heat-concentrating structure can get pretty intense.  Thinking of keeping any flames out of there, myself.  I like to cook but might have a separate, safer place to do it... also experimenting with more serious electrical power and using non-flame cooking stuffs like induction - which looks amazing btw.

It appears to me that a well-constructed H15 (which, to me, means mitered corners - which really improve the integrity of tape joints & carrying through the structural properties of the skin over the foam, and also means well tied down and weak points like doorways reinforced) made => 1.5"  thick board should stand up to an acceptably high percentage of possible weather on the playa.  I don't think any weight difference is practically significant.  I can lift a whole H15 either way if it's a package I can handle. 

I'm playing with Hexacomb board.  It's quite a bit more rigid but needs waterproofing and possibly some help with insulation & reflection.  It's pretty light and about half the price of HD.  Also playing with hybrid systems - board captured by EMT TinkerToy.  Hard to price that kind of stuff though... more of an art statement you live in...

Re group buys, Home Depot might special order HD in some quantity, but probably not necessarily a huge amount, so I'm not counting that as much of a barrier.  Costs a bit more but like you say...   Either way, I can do the kits and accessories.

 

~ Dan

[Hunter]

After months of searching we found out no one in the bay area will supply you with thermax hd (if you were buying less than 150 sheets). We went with Hunter xcl (?) which had similar fire properties.

[Adam Bregenzer]

We couldn't find anyone who would sell Thermax HD unless we bought Dow's entire minimum order from them, which is 1,100 sheets.

The good news is we found an alternative panel, Hunter Xci 286 (link to specs below). It has the same compressive strength and fire rating as Thermax HD and is available in smaller quantities, also it's cheaper than the quoted price for Thermax, but still relatively expensive at ~$33 / sheet. The foil on both sides is a metal foil. One side is highly reflective, the other is white.

http://www.hunterxci.com/images/submittal_docs/XCI_286_lit.pdf

[Hunter]

As a note: the white foil didn't seem particularly reflective in the IR spectrum while the silver side was extremely so.

[Robert Atkins]

On Monday, April 21, 2014 5:47:26 PM UTC+2, Snacks wrote:

Hey I'm with a group in the Seattle area interested in doing a bulk purchase with others if it makes sense... we are looking for 1.5" or 2" material, 29 panels minimum.  Because of the price we are leaning towards RMAX. Has anyone started compiling a group order who is interested in the thicker material?

Is this Seattle area group buy going ahead?

Cheers, Robert.

[Alex Vogt]

Hi Robert,

I'm not sure about any other group buys, but my camp just ended up getting the 1" RMAX from Home Depot. They seem to keep some in stock but they had to order a bunch for us to get the 30 that we needed. It took one week to get. 

-Snacks

Sent from my iPhone on the toilet

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[Dano McKagan]

I have some friends who are still debating it and don't know about anybody else.

Dano!

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[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

Really good to know about the Hunter XCI. Thank you for finding it, Adam and Hunter.

Could somebody add it to the wiki? Do we have any more information on the supply chain, how to actually buy the stuff? Who's stocking it?

V>

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[Adam Bregenzer]

No problem, we found it at a couple of places, it seems readily
available at commercial construction supply stores such as IDI <
http://idi-insulation.com/ > and Allied <
http://www.alliedbuilding.com/ >. Both were willing to sell over the
counter and kept the product in stock or within less than a week
delivery, they also were willing to deliver locally.

[Kevin Fischer]

Is Thermax HD believed to be slightly better than Hunter XCI 286? To
explain the increased cost, does it have a thicker layer of glass
fiber foil that adds strength? Or is it pretty much the same thing?

[D.V.Rogers]

I worked with Thermax CI for the DOMUS project which is the same as Thermax HD except the external facer is blue instead of white.

REF: http://domus.urbanaction.org

Thermax CI and HD is designed to be exposed outdoors for 6-12 months and has a great thermal rating and reasonable fire rating.

The increased price difference is because its DOW :( At the time i was interested in using Hunter XCI but they didn't wish to communicate.

Thermax is expensive and difficult to source on the West Coast but I used http://foamsalesandmarketing.com/ in Burbank, C.A. for supply.

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[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

Very helpful note, DV. 

I'm going to be on the Playa this year. I'm very happy to go in on a purchase - I think we'd looking at about 32 to 35 panels.

V>

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[Chris Jurney]

We aimed to get the Thermax HD couldn't find anywhere to buy it near San Francisco.  We bought 1" thick Hunter XCI 286 panels, that have most of the same properties (high fire resistance, sturdy).  Our yurts are headed into their 5th year with no major damage, including surviving hail and ~60 mph gusts whatever year that happened.

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[Kevin Fischer]

I asked Ashby Lumber for a quote for XCI 286 so waiting to hear back
from them. I'm happy to help organize a group buy, but don't have
warehouse storage space, just unsecure but in practice fine outdoor
yard space in South Berkeley where I can also host hexayurt build
sessions. Pretty sure we can get an order for 150 panels together, if
that's the minimum quantity to get great pricing.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 5:58 AM, Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter

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[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

This sounds like a great plan.

V>

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[hal muskat]

I might have interest depending on costs . . . 

thank for doing this Kevin. 

AmSteel could have space as well as assembly space???

Hal

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[Mark Clark]

I will commit to a share! I'm in Portland but can come down for them early July. 

[Kevin Fischer]

Anyone at American Steel have space they can lend for this? That would
work better than my backyard. Also a bandsaw with the right dust
vacuuming attachment could be really helpful; I've breathed enough
hexayurt dust for a lifetime already.

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[D.V.Rogers]

Best Way to Cut Rigid Insulation Panels - https://youtu.be/KuFWRTEULD0

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[Kevin Fischer]

A guy on the youtube comments suggests a pizza slicer.
https://www.amazon.com/OXO-SteeL-Pizza-Wheel-Cutter/dp/B0000E2GYL I
could see that working really well also.

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[Chris Jurney]

We beveled our panel ends to make the hexagon snug together tighter with a table saw.  It worked great, but made a ton of foam dust.

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[Dan March]

My table saw has a hookup for a dust collection vacuum system, but if you're looking to hugely decrease dust created by your saw, you might want to look at this tool design:

http://www.blademfg.com/products/circular-knives/

[hal muskat]

They have the space. It’s a question of schedule, amount of space required & $$. Got a date? 

Kevin, you’re local, could you call or drop by? 

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[Kevin Fischer]

Ok, Ashby Lumber quoted $33.50 for 1" and $41.40 for 1.5" with no
minimum order and they'll deliver for $35 on an order over $1000. 3-5
days for delivery. I think this is just going to be easy; hopefully
they'll start keeping it on hand as we get closer to Burning Man.

They want specific unit quantities from us before their vendor will
give us volume pricing.

I think we want to promote the concept of switching to Hunter XCI this
year as much as reasonable, would the org mention it in Jackrabbit
Speaks? Or other good places to reach people?

[Vinay Gupta (Hexayurt Shelter Project)]

Yes, I think that's a very good idea - but how many suppliers are there carrying it?

Any chance you could send me a six inch square in the post so I could physically set eyes on it?

V>

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Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest

UK Cell : +44 (0)7500 895568 Twitter/Skype/Gtalk: hexayurt

"In the midst of winter,  I finally learned that there was 

        in me an invincible summer" - Albert Camus

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>>>> >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> --
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>>>> >>>>> send

>>>> >>>>> an email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt.
>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> >>>> send an

>>>> >>>> email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt.
>>>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> >>> send an

>>>> >>> email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> >>> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt.
>>>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> >> "hexayurt" group.
>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> >> an

>>>> >> email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> >> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt.
>>>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> > an email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> > To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt.
>>>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>>> "hexayurt" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

>>>> email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>>> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "hexayurt" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

>>> email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>>> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "hexayurt" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

>> email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

>> To post to this group, send email to hexa...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hexayurt+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.