Lets put together the startings of a business plan.

[Omar Kooheji]

I'm a bit sceptical of the figures that people have been bandying
about for how long it's going to take to formulate a business plan. I
agree that to start a new business it may take soem time to formulate
a business plan. However we are looking to put together a plan to
resuscitate an existing business as such our task is slightly easier.
I think we need to do something like the following:

1.Define the club As it was:
[+] How it ran
[+] it's main avenues of revenue
[+] It's main costs
[+] It's target market
[+] It's place in the university
[+] It's management structure

2. Establish the issues with the club that caused it's decline
[+] Lack of communication between staff and committee
[+] Lack of visibility and transparicy of the committee
[+] Wasting money
[+] Lack of publicity both in getting new members and in telling
members what was going on.
[+] Dwindling membership
[+] Inexperience of the CoM and a lack of interest from the members
[+] Staff training issues

3.Formulate solutions to the problems that caused this
[+] Management restructuring
[+] increasing training
[+] Increasing visibility of the CoM
[+] Increase Public profile of the club.
[+] Getting early members
[+] Hiring a chef/outsourcing catering management to someone else

4. Other Plans to Increase revenue:
[+] Hosting Talks
[+] Book sales
Whatever else...

For 3 and 4 we need to outline not only the solutions but the risks
and a risk management plan. we need to show that we have all our bases
covered.

This is just an example, and I think there is a lot more work to do
(I've just fired out a bunch of bullet points off the top of my head
in five minutes) but I think the 4 point structure is a good idea,
state who we are, state what went wrong state how we are going to fix
what went wrong and state how we are going to make things even better.

What do people think?

[Duncan Connors]

I think that is a very good idea,

Since my time on CoM, a while ago now, I have noticed a gradual
erosion of the club's viability as a business, although to be frank I
attribute this less to Fiona and more to a series of rather poor
committees.

A business plan and a bloody good look at recoiling the costs with the
income would be around 90% of the way to bringing it back to life and
I sincerely wish that people would focus on that aspect, rather than
lamentation, gossip or promoting weird and unrealistic flights of
fancy. This is about viability AND accounting, with the consequence we
need to promise new ways of bringing in income but also ways of
promoting good governance in the name of giving the club a sustainable
future.

[Omar Kooheji]

That's why I started this thread.

We need to put together something concrete. Preferably by the EGM preferably that we can print out and hand out, to people saying hey look we can do this, and here's how.

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[Morag Hunter]

I thought that a business plan was presented at the first meeting. Is
there a copy of that anywhere? Or did they never actually present the
plan? Maybe I'm wrong, but I heard that some of the staff had put
together a plan to present.

On 5 Mar, 12:50, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> That's why I started this thread.
>
> We need to put together something concrete. Preferably by the
> EGM preferably that we can print out and hand out, to people saying hey look
> we can do this, and here's how.
>

> > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[eileen...@googlemail.com]

Hi Morag,

Yes the business plan has been uploaded to the googlegroup. It should be on the homepage along with a copy of the Club's constitution
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

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[Michael Comerford]

This is a great start so that people are thinking in a structured way. I think 2 is the easiest to deal with and we seem to have got a handle on the issues from Thursdays Meeting. As you say 3 and 4 require the most detail as it is these sections David Newell will scrutinise.

So here are my preliminary thoughts under each heading...

> 3.Formulate solutions to the problems that caused this
> [+] Management restructuring

--The idea of having an elected CoM responsbile for strategic direction is sound, what was amiss was the lack of accountability and procedures. The CoM should appoint a General Manager as we discussed on Thursday (the recruitment panel would need some external expertise from one of the unions or the University combined with CoM members) - this GM reports directly to the CoM (in HR terms this might mean having a small HR sub-committee of the wider CoM to deal with issues between the GM and CoM) as a lack of communcation and lack of managment accountability on both sides was a big problem by the sound of it.

This then works in a conventional heirarhical chain - the GM tells the CoM we need this many staff (whatever their roles) the CoM or HR sub-committee agrees and staff are hired they report through a standard line management structure to the GM (the CoM do not manage staff in any way). This retains the seperation between staff and CoM as we discussed - the GM is the bridge between the two.

I'm sure in terms of HR procedures e.g. terms and conditions of employment, the use of disciplinary procedures, etc. can be drawn up fairly easily with help from Uni HR or the Unions. I would even consider a clause that if the GM has a complaint about the CoM they can take it to the University - again this provides another formalised avenue in case the CoM gets into trouble.
 
> [+] increasing training
-- There are various training courses availiable through organisations with similiar democratic structures, through organisations like NUS, Sparqs and AMSU, these might not fit exactly so you could look to organisation like the charities commission (I know the club is not a charity but the CoM operates in a similar way to trustees) This training should be undertaken annually. If not maybe in conjuntion with the Unions and the University we could put together some tailored training sessions for the CoM. Formalised training that outlines the importance of accountability in democratic structures and also financial accountability e.g. how to present accounts to members/stakeholders is essential.

-- Staff training below the GM level should be organised by the GM this should form a formal part of the terms of employment for staff to ensure they are trained in the clubs procedures e.g. on the Bar, etc. but also finanical procedures (relevant to their position) and the role of the CoM.

> [+] Increasing visibility of the CoM

-- We discussed not only a much greater publicity of meetings like the AGM but also regular open meetings of the CoM well advertised and open to member contributions, in the style of a CoM surgery almost. Possibly once a fortnight or once a month? These could give updates on the accounts is appropriate and plans for the future. I decent website could also include message boards and details of how to contact the CoM. Use of existing media SubCity and Gust.

> [+] Increase Public profile of the club.

-- A well orchestrated publicity campaign that engages the strengths and skills of keen volunteers but also if neccesary engages paid services at key points in the year e.g. freshers week. The skills required includes desktop publishing, web design, etc. Also this could include the disscussions about departmental representatives for the club who could raise awareness in their departments by speaking at lectures or seminars and distributing out relevant material. Also if possible named staff representative could mirror this role on the staff side. This also coincides with plans to increase revenue below i.e. if you host talks from interesting speakers your raise the profile.

 
> [+] Getting early members
> [+] Hiring a chef/outsourcing catering management to someone else

-- My view on this may be different from other peoples, I think in the short term (at least a year) we talk to the catering operations on campus and negotiate out/sourcing our catering. This doesn't mean bring food in, the kitchen would remain in the Club and staff from the supplier would use it, in consultation with the suppliers catering manager we would retain control of the menu - but we get the benefit of having their procedures already in place, this benefits the supplier by reducing their competition on campus. In terms of cost it would need negotiation, At Brunel the University took over our catering in this way and they absorbed the potential losses (there weren't any) and we split the profits. The specifics of this would need to be worked as to whether it would worth while for the club monetarily, but it does save a lot of hassle.

>
> 4. Other Plans to Increase revenue:
> [+] Hosting Talks

-- This should be advertised to departments that regularly hold seminars with outside speakers, we could offer temporary membership to attendees they could book the up stairs and then the club would I imagine generate revenes from sales after the event. This also helps to raise the profile across campus and if the speakers are of particular interest, outside the club as well.
> [+] Book sales
> [+] Find the right model of venue hire, it was mentioned by promoters that they make more than enough from the events to warrant paying a hiring charge.
> [+] Adveritse the space to reading groups and student clubs especially if the rooms in the belfrey are restored. This might not carry a hire charge but again should generate bar/food sales.
> [+] This might not work but at Brunel the University opened a new coffee shop and sent emails round to all staff saying things like "having an informal one to one with a colleague why not use the coffee shop" "discussing a new project... etc." This linked with a loyalty card system could generate for day-time traffic to fill the gaps between lunch and evening trade.
> [+] Membership recruitment is key to the revenue model - basically in the immediate past it has been non-existent. Having a presence at freshers events, postgraduate open days, and being proactive in getting on departmental tours and introductions would increase this.

Ok I think that will do from me for now.

[Omar Kooheji]

Morag,
An embryonic business plan was discussed at the first meeting. It
needed a lot of fleshing out. You can look through the powerpoint
presentation and see for yourself.

> hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com.

> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.
>
>

--
Sent from my mobile device

[Morag Hunter]

Thanks Omar and Eileen

I had not realised that was the business plan

On 5 Mar, 13:58, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Morag,
> An embryonic business plan was discussed at the first meeting. It
> needed a lot of fleshing out. You can look through the powerpoint
> presentation and see for yourself.
>

[Omar Kooheji]

Thanks Michael that all looks good.

Does someone want to volunteer to put together a Statement for [1] preferably someone who knows the club quite well, I'll repost my bullet points:

1.Define the club As it was:
[+] How it ran
[+] it's main avenues of revenue
[+] It's main costs
[+] It's target market
[+] It's place in the university
[+] It's management structure

We can stress the importance of the club as a selling point for the university and a part of the universities heritage.

Also getting concrete numbers for postgrad students, mature students, international students, and DACE students would be useful. As well as how much money these students bring in to the university.

I know some people have outright said that they use the club as a selling point to potential post grads.

We also need to outline the services the club provides to students. and how they differ from the services that the GUU and the QM provide.

Any takers?

Also I know that as Michael stated we have a better idea of what went wrong, we still need to put it down on paper, can someone put together a more indepth list with a breakdown, again here are the bullet points I listed:

2. Establish the issues with the club that caused it's decline
[+] Lack of communication between staff and committee
[+] Lack of visibility and transparicy of the committee
[+] Wasting money
[+] Lack of publicity both in getting new members and in telling
members what was going on.
[+] Dwindling membership
[+] Inexperience of the CoM and a lack of interest from the members
[+] Staff training issues

we need to go at this with all cylinders firing. 

[Morag Hunter]

Hi Omar

I was wondering if it was necessary to do (1). Couldn't we just
present a fresh business plan and show that there is a viable
business? I do think that being informed as to how and why it went
wrong is useful, to make sure that the same mistakes are not repeated,
but is it essential? Sorry if you already covered this in the
meetings, I was just trying to save work.

> > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-general%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

>
> > > >> > .
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[Omar Kooheji]

Morag,

I think because we are in the eyes of the university a bunch of numpties on a fools errand we need to show that we have a clear understanding of the club and how it used to run and the circumstances that lead to the closure.

We have to tailor the business proposal to the target audience, and showing that we understand how the business was run and acknowledge that there were problems, might give them more confidence in what we are trying to do.

I also think that the university will want us to say hey this is what went wrong, before we start listing solutions because it shows that we have put thought into mitigating the issues that caused them to have to bail out the club for the princely sum of £50k.

These are of course only my opinions, I'm more than happy to change the framework if everyone else thinks that I've got the wrong end of the stick.  

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[JohnEwing]

On Mar 5, 3:05 pm, Morag Hunter <biodynam...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi Omar
>
> I was wondering if it was necessary to do (1).  Couldn't we just
> present a fresh business plan and show that there is a viable
> business?  I do think that being informed as to how and why it went
> wrong is useful, to make sure that the same mistakes are not repeated,
> but is it essential?

I think it is essential that (1) is done, starting from many years
ago, 1954 perhaps. Then it is easier to (2) "Establish the issues with
the club that caused its decline ". If it is identified what went
wrong, when, then (3) "Formulate solutions to the problems that caused
this" becomes easier, and assuming it is done well, we can show
clearly to the University that we have examined the situation and that
the new plan is workable.

It's maybe not necessary to go as far back as 1954, but the Club was
heading towards a similar problem in the late 70s / early 80s. The
solution to the problem then may assist with solving it now. As far as
I can see, some of the causes are similar, but I don't yet have full
information.

John

[Morag Hunter]

Hi John

You obviously knw a lot about the history of the club. It would be
useful to know what went wrong in the late 70s / early 80s and the
solution, also how long that solution worked for. I'm not sure, but
I've been told that the club was fairly successful until about three
years ago.

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 5, 2:39 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Does someone want to volunteer to put together a Statement for [1]
> preferably someone who knows the club quite well, I'll repost my bullet
> points:
>
> 1.Define the club As it was:
> [+] How it ran

> [+] its main avenues of revenue
> [+] Its main costs
> [+] Its target market
> [+] Its place in the university
> [+] Its management structure

I'm willing to help with historical information in all these areas.
Some of that information is relevant. However I cannot say anything
about more recent history.

John

[Omar Kooheji]

That is assuming my initial framework is sound.
I have only the business acumen I was born with, and no formal
training in putting together a business plan.
This just seems to be the sensible way to do this.
I'm approaching the problem like i would a research paper... Start
with the intro, state the problem, then a statement of methods, and a
further work section.
Is that so wrong? :)

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[Michael Comerford]

I know Karen was talking to Business Gateway, do we know if she had a
named contact? They might be able to give us some guidance on format
etc.

[Sara Thomas]

Having worked in a management capacity in venues ranging in size from
a couple of hundred to 5000, I'd be more than happy to help with
setting up operational procedures, writing job description for the GM
position, setting industry-appropriate salary levels, writing staff
training manuals, risk assessments etc - give me a shout.

I would be *extremely* reluctant for catering to be outsourced - you
lose so much control this way and I think we'd find it difficult to
respond to the needs/likes of the customers. By all means start off
with a simple menu and expand upon it when there's more confidence in
the business as a whole, but don't let's give away the store...

[Omar Kooheji]

Thanks Sara,

The other option is to hire in a Chef who manages the operations of the Kitchen.

We need to investigate the viability of this.

We might want to include in the business plan a list of decisions like this that we made and out justification for choosing one alternative over the other.

[Seumas Bates]

I think an angle which has so far been neglected in this thread is the
community element to the club. Never underestimate the value of the
club as an informal support network for post-grads and the rest. Yes
the University will be looking for a solid set of finances and money
making schemes but they'll be looking for more too.

I think re-branding the Club as the hub for post-graduate
representation and support on campus is a crucial means of getting the
Uni on side (and ultimately making us money too). Post-grads are the
Uni's key target demographic and if we can convince them that we can
provide the sort of safety net the Unions and SRC provide we're on to
a winner. I'm told the position of Post-Grad Representative in the SRC
has been unfilled for the second year in a row, why shouldn't someone
from the CoM fill this role and fit into the structure of the SRC? We
don't have a place in the Uni's Freshers' Week program or Freshers'
address, why not? There appears to be no provision for support for the
many post-grad/mature student specific problems, the SRC offers such
guidance, why should we not become a hub and distribution centre for
such support?
We can't be the same as the QM or GU due to our particular structural
differences but there is no reason we shouldn't take on some of their
responsibilities.

My gut instinct tells me the Uni will approve of a movement towards
the community, support and welfare of its post-grand / international
student population and I genuinely think a section of any business
plan should stress this at length.

This does not mean we should replace the SRC/Unions in this matter,
just that we work with them to broaden the take-up of such services.
The structures are already in place, we just need to expand on them.
Let's make the HRC an active political body on campus so that its
acronym because a common, and accepted piece of terminology

On Mar 5, 4:00 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sara,
>
> The other option is to hire in a Chef who manages the operations of the
> Kitchen.
>
> We need to investigate the viability of this.
>
> We might want to include in the business plan a list of decisions like this
> that we made and out justification for choosing one alternative over the
> other.
>

> On 5 March 2010 15:52, Sara Thomas <sa.tho...@live.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Having worked in a management capacity in venues ranging in size from
> > a couple of hundred to 5000, I'd be more than happy to help with
> > setting up operational procedures, writing job description for the GM
> > position, setting industry-appropriate salary levels, writing staff
> > training manuals, risk assessments etc - give me a shout.
>
> > I would be *extremely* reluctant for catering to be outsourced - you
> > lose so much control this way and I think we'd find it difficult to
> > respond to the needs/likes of the customers.  By all means start off
> > with a simple menu and expand upon it when there's more confidence in
> > the business as a whole, but don't let's give away the store...
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Hetherington Research Club - General Discussion Group" group.
> > To post to this group, send an email to
> > hetherington...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Omar Kooheji]

I've put the skeleton on google docs, as I have to invite people to be able to edit it I've scanned this thread and a couple of others for people who might be interested and contacted them with invites.

Anyone else who wants to have a go message me and I'll send you an invite, or you can look at the read only copy here:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Ae-xxxWTnnmMZG4yOHpicl8xZ2pjMndraGI&hl=en_GB

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[Omar Kooheji]

Actually it looks like you can leave comments on the document highlight some text and click insert -> comment (or ctrl -M) lets use that to track ideas on it.

[Morag Hunter]

Hi Seamus

Are you saying that we should concentrate on PGs and international
students and not on mature students? This may, unfortunately, be what
the university wants. The mature students already have their own
building, and I can see that the university may argue that they do not
need more provision. I am not saying I agree, but the official
statement from the university mentioned a social facility for
postgraduates, and did not mention mature students.

[Omar Kooheji]

Seamus, Morag I think the two go hand in hand,

mature students are more likely to be post grads as well.

I didn't know the mature students already had a building? where/what is it?

I think that we should stress the impact one both and maybe confer with the SRC on this matter. I'm not sure that they would agree to a Postgrad CLub rep replacing the PGC but we could offer to take some of the burdon off of them.

I know the SRC have a rep on the QM board, I don't know if there is a history of the other happening. We need to figure out a way to do this that is amenable to both the Uni and the SRC but doesn't put so much work on one person such that it destroys their degree.

I think the PGC should represent the students, but perhaps we should co-opt the the post grad rep's and the post grad convenors onto the PGC committee. as full or non voting members. 

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[Morag Hunter]

> I didn't know the mature students already had a building? where/what is it?

Omar

It's opposite the Gym, on Oakfield Avenue. They have networked
computers, study and chill out space, and use of a huge kitchen with
microwave, fridge etc.

On 5 Mar, 17:13, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Seamus, Morag I think the two go hand in hand,
>
> mature students are more likely to be post grads as well.
>
> I didn't know the mature students already had a building? where/what is it?
>
> I think that we should stress the impact one both and maybe confer with the
> SRC on this matter. I'm not sure that they would agree to a Postgrad CLub
> rep replacing the PGC but we could offer to take some of the burdon off of
> them.
>
> I know the SRC have a rep on the QM board, I don't know if there is a
> history of the other happening. We need to figure out a way to do this that
> is amenable to both the Uni and the SRC but doesn't put so much work on one
> person such that it destroys their degree.
>
> I think the PGC should represent the students, but perhaps we should co-opt
> the the post grad rep's and the post grad convenors onto the PGC committee.
> as full or non voting members.
>

> > > > > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>

> > > > > .
> > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Hetherington Research Club - General Discussion Group" group.
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

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[Omar Kooheji]

I totally didn't know that... And I was a mature student. Oh well.

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[Seumas Bates]

acronym because a common, and accepted piece of Glasgow terminology!

On Mar 5, 4:00 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Sara,
>
> The other option is to hire in a Chef who manages the operations of the
> Kitchen.
>
> We need to investigate the viability of this.
>
> We might want to include in the business plan a list of decisions like this
> that we made and out justification for choosing one alternative over the
> other.
>

> On 5 March 2010 15:52, Sara Thomas <sa.tho...@live.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Having worked in a management capacity in venues ranging in size from
> > a couple of hundred to 5000, I'd be more than happy to help with
> > setting up operational procedures, writing job description for the GM
> > position, setting industry-appropriate salary levels, writing staff
> > training manuals, risk assessments etc - give me a shout.
>
> > I would be *extremely* reluctant for catering to be outsourced - you
> > lose so much control this way and I think we'd find it difficult to
> > respond to the needs/likes of the customers.  By all means start off
> > with a simple menu and expand upon it when there's more confidence in
> > the business as a whole, but don't let's give away the store...
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Hetherington Research Club - General Discussion Group" group.
> > To post to this group, send an email to
> > hetherington...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Omar Kooheji]

Did you reply to that in some funny way?

All I got was "acronym because a common, and accepted piece of Glasgow terminology!"

Now I see that you meant lets make HRC... 

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[Omar Kooheji]

It looks I've seen Thomas editing this and it's pretty cool I can see a complete revision history of the document or compare changes between revision and I can see who edited each part. Pretty nifty.

We need snappy titles for each of the 4 headings I outlined.

[Seumas Bates]

Yes, the Mature Students Assosiation, as it's called.

Morag, clearly the HRC should continue it's fine tradition of
providing services to mature students, I'm not for one moment
suggesting otherwise. However my inclination is that the Uni does not
regard Mature Undergrads as a priority, therefore they should not form
such a significant thrust of any proposal we make to re-instate the
club. This may be overly cynical on my part, but I think what's
crucial is marketing ourselves as an essential part of the Uni's own
strategic goals.

Perhaps as Omar says the correct compromise is to bring the Post-Grad
SRC Rep onto the Hetherington CoM (maybe a member of the Mature
Students Association too) rather then the other way around. Once the
CoM gets its affairs in order there would be nothing stopping it
putting an insider candidate forward for the job after all.

On a related point, something I forgot to mention in my earlier post
is post-graduate journals. There is already E-Sharp in existence but
why shouldn't there be more, to encompass a larger number of
disciplines. I'm not saying the CoM itself takes direct responsibility
for them, but by offering space and support for such ventures ('taking
them under our wing' as it were) we take another step in cementing our
place in the Uni's structure, and put our finger in another pie.

All these pieces add up to make us an indispensable resource to the
Uni management when it sells itself as a 'research based/post-graduate
based' University on the world stage.

On Mar 5, 5:28 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I totally didn't know that... And I was a mature student. Oh well.
>

> > > > > > > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene­ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-g­eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > ><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > > > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com><
> > ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ral%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com­>

>
> > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
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>
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> - Show quoted text -

[Seumas Bates]

Yes, the Mature Students Assosiation, as it's called.

Morag, clearly the HRC should continue it's fine tradition of
providing services to mature students, I'm not for one moment
suggesting otherwise. However my inclination is that the Uni does not
regard Mature Undergrads as a priority, therefore they should not form
such a significant thrust of any proposal we make to re-instate the
club. This may be overly cynical on my part, but I think what's
crucial is marketing ourselves as an essential part of the Uni's own
strategic goals.

Perhaps as Omar says the correct compromise is to bring the Post-Grad
SRC Rep onto the Hetherington CoM (maybe a member of the Mature
Students Association too) rather then the other way around. Once the
CoM gets its affairs in order there would be nothing stopping it
putting an insider candidate forward for the job after all.

On a related point, something I forgot to mention in my earlier post
is post-graduate journals. There is already E-Sharp in existence but
why shouldn't there be more, to encompass a larger number of
disciplines. I'm not saying the CoM itself takes direct responsibility
for them, but by offering space and support for such ventures ('taking
them under our wing' as it were) we take another step in cementing our
place in the Uni's structure, and put our finger in another pie.

All these pieces add up to make us an indispensable resource to the
Uni management when it sells itself as a 'research based/post-graduate
based' University on the world stage.

> > > > > > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene­ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com><hetheringtonclub-gene

> > > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
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[Seumas Bates]

Omar my account, as usual, is playing up. Did you get my original
message and my new one ok? The first begins; "I think an angle which
has so far been neglected in this thread is the community element..."
and the second begins "Yes, the Mature Students Assosiation, as..."

On Mar 5, 5:53 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Did you reply to that in some funny way?
>
> All I got was "acronym because a common, and accepted piece of Glasgow
> terminology!"
>
> Now I see that you meant lets make HRC...
>

> > > > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene­ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>

> > > > .
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
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>
> > --
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[Seumas Bates]

OK, as far as Omar's document goes I think it would be more fruitful
for everyone to post ideas as Comments rather than simply changing the
document. Otherwise it will become impossible to keep a proper flow to
it and we'll have people changing then re-changing people's work.

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Xuan-Linh Labbe]

The 4 part plan is a very good idea. I do think we need to start by
analysing what went wrong, or we will just appear to be unprepared.
And it is also good to have different levels of priorities, hence the
fourth part. However, the first part should be really straight to the
point, as the 2nd part already deals with 'the problems of the past'.

Regarding the SRC postgrad representative being taken from the club, I
doubt it is possible, as the SRC is a democratic body representing all
students (not only HRC members), and only students (unlike the HRC).
However, it is a good idea to emphasise that the club could take part
of the SRC's role in helping PG students (just not be an official
representative)

And last, regarding the issue of not keeping doing the same mistakes
again, I believe that writing a set of guidelines for the next
generations of committees could be very beneficial. I have worked in a
non-profit structure organising holidays for teenagers, and although
there was a high turnover, having a few people with experience and a
booklet giving us a framework and feedback from previous years was
very useful. It doesn't have to (and shouldn't) be very long, but I
think that having a checklist (a kind of 'code of honor' combined with
a list of recurrent objectives could be very helpful for the future
committees). Some very simple examples, which may seem obvious but
which, apparently, are not:

- A list of the committee members and their tasks
- contacts of the previous committee's members along with their role
(if they have accepted), so experience can be passed on if necessary
- Every event should be advertised as soon as possible in the building
- Information should be accessible on the website and/or notice board
(e.g. if members can use the venue for graduations, talks, etc. they
should know it is possible by seeing posters reminding them exactly
what they can do there apart from having lunch). The aim is obviously
to increase revenue, especiallIt doesn't take a lot of work, but just
it to be systematic. Having them in a general 'booklet' would help
unexperienced committee members and could also help avoid making the
same mistakes in 5 years, when few members will remember what happens
if you're not careful enough.

This is just a suggestion. I am not sure if it would work, but I do
believe that going over it on a first committee meeting each year (not
before the club reopens, needless to say) might be useful ('Better
safe than sorry', as the saying goes)

[Thomas Coles]

Seamus: good idea. Avoid getting into an editing war with each other. Don't delete other people's contributions.

I think we should just add in things that are missing though.

Also: you can see all previous versions of the document by going to 'File > See Revision History'

I think if we can get a version of this in front of people's eyes by Monday it will really help the feeling that we are progressing when we get to the EGM.

Xuan-Linh: great ideas, the way I see section three of the document being structured is by giving a outline of the responsibilities of the Committee, the Membership, and the Business. Show how they are linked and what their remit is.

The Booklet idea is great. We really need to produce a set of 'procedural documents' so that, as you say, even an inexperienced CoM would know what to do.

Tom

--

[Seumas Bates]

Xuan-Linh, I would draw your attention to the Club's Constitution
which is available on this very website.

However, I think the general point you make is still relevant. Does
the Club have documented By-Laws and Policy? Many of the operational
matters we are discussing might be better placed into such documents
rather than the Constitution. Within the Union framework the division
between Constitution, By-Laws, and Policy (or CBP) always served us
well.

[Thomas Coles]

I know very little about this compared to you Seamus, can we get ahold of another Club's set of By-Laws and Policy and adapt them to our own purposes? Rather than creating a new (faulty) structure, using a tried and tested method would be preferable.

This is something that we will mention in a proposal to the Uni court, though they will only need to be finalized at a later stage.

[Seumas Bates]

Thomas, you are quite correct to point out that it is easier to
comment on something rather than nothing. Perhaps those of us who are
present and interested might volunteer to write more substantial
pieces to 'get the ball' rolling so that others might have something
to critique? I would be happy to work on the Community section of the
document for example.

On Mar 5, 6:49 pm, Thomas Coles <tomco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seamus: good idea. Avoid getting into an editing war with each other. Don't
> delete other people's contributions.
>
> I think we should just add in things that are missing though.
>
> Also: you can see all previous versions of the document by going to 'File >
> See Revision History'
>
> I think if we can get a version of this in front of people's eyes by Monday
> it will really help the feeling that we are progressing when we get to the
> EGM.
>
> Xuan-Linh: great ideas, the way I see section three of the document being
> structured is by giving a outline of the responsibilities of the Committee,
> the Membership, and the Business. Show how they are linked and what their
> remit is.
>
> The Booklet idea is great. We really need to produce a set of 'procedural
> documents' so that, as you say, even an inexperienced CoM would know what to
> do.
>
> Tom
>

> > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene­ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.- Hide quoted text -

[Seumas Bates]

Here is the QMU's, some of which I helped to write some years ago. It
ain't exactly a page turner but it does broadly work;

http://www.qmu.org.uk/about/board/cbp

On Mar 5, 6:57 pm, Thomas Coles <tomco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know very little about this compared to you Seamus, can we get ahold of
> another Club's set of By-Laws and Policy and adapt them to our own purposes?
> Rather than creating a new (faulty) structure, using a tried and tested
> method would be preferable.
>
> This is something that we will mention in a proposal to the Uni court,
> though they will only need to be finalized at a later stage.
>

> > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene­ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at

[Rob K]

I think that any business plan needs to be a lot more rigorous and
detailed than anything that has been suggested so far. We need a
committee that is going to sit down with people who really know what
is involved. It needs to detail what staff are needed, how much they
are paid, what the turnover is likely to be, what the expected market
is, all these sort of things.

There have been a few people who have offered their experienced input
and I think that any potential committee members should talk to these
people with a view to constructing a serious and rigorous proposal
that addresses the clubs finances and management structure.

Also it has been mentioned that the research club is unique in
Scotland. Well apparently there exist similar clubs in England, has
anyone contacted these clubs to see what management structures they
have? Has anyone been at a university where something similar exists?

Regarding the constitution, if it seems like the best candidates for a
new committee are likely to be people who aren't members, for example
Omar who tried to join but for some reason couldn't, then I suggest
that the current members vote in a committee who will immediately and
perhaps temporarily change the constitution and elect the best non-
member candidates to write a sound proposal and give the club the best
chance of opening again.

Robert

On 5 Mar, 17:28, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I totally didn't know that... And I was a mature student. Oh well.
>

> > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-general%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

> > ><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > > > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com><
> > ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ral%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com>
>

> > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.
>
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> > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-general%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

[Xuan-Linh Labbe]

Seamus: thanks for telling me about the constitution.

The QM documents are very interesting and could be a good template
indeed. Some of the examples I refered to for the booklet can be found
in the link below at 'training':
http://www.qmu.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/policy-2007-feb.pdf

Oh, and another thing which is good with these 3 documents : they're
very easy to read (spaces between 'articles' and use of black font,
for example), so I suppose some people in the QM will have read them.
But then again, maybe I'm just a detail freak.

[Omar Kooheji]

It's been years since i read the Qm's document of policy. But it's a
relatively recent development.
The document was put together by the president in 1999 who went
through all the board minutes he could find as far back as he could
find and documented every decision the board had ever voted on. He was
sick and tired of people refering to policy that had been decided at a
meeting at some point, and whether it had been overriden by more
recent policy, so he collated it all.
As for committee membership to be honest i don't mind not being on the
committee if it expedictes things, I'll still be just as vocal from
the sidelines. I've just been conscious that sometimes you need a
catalyst to get things going, which i've been happy to do.
We just need to make sure we don't lose momentum. Who is actually on
the committee is irrelevant, so long as we work together to do
whatever we need to do to get the club open.

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[Seumas Bates]

Yes it was noted at the recent meeting that a business plan will take
time to create but surely that is all the more reason to get cracking?
I see no benefit in holding off beginning the document as, even if
every section is subsequently changed, we at least having something to
work with which people with experience or training can critique. If
we're seeking advice we should - I believe - have something for them
to give advice on.

As for other examples, I have no knowledge of where any other such
Clubs exist, this is why we have so far been basing our thinking on
other Union style organizations around the University.

Finally, at an EGM any member of the Club can pose Constitutional
amendments of that nature. It would be possible therefore for you to
propose such an alteration directly without waiting for CoM approval.

> > > > > > > > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-g eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>

> > > ><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > > > > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com><
> > > ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ral%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com >
>
> > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
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>

[Omar Kooheji]

Isn't it the case that any decision regarding the club that does not
change the constitution can be proposed and seconded by any member at
the egm. So someone could propose that everyone at the meeting is a
member so long as there was no direct negative it wouldn't even have
to go to a vote.

[Omar Kooheji]

Seamus. I think constitutional changes need to be proposed 5 days
prior to the meeting. Changes to ones that have been brought forward
can be discusssed and confoenets proposed.

[Xuan-Linh Labbe]

I have found a few PG clubs on Google. They tend to be slightly bigger
structures than the HRC, but still similar in their purpose.

- Oxford University Club: http://www.club.ox.ac.uk/ (also offers
sports activities)
CONTACTS: http://www.club.ox.ac.uk/home/contacts/

- Cardiff Graduate Centre: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/gradc/aboutus/index.html
(a description of the structure and staff arrangements can be found on
that page, and the university and student union are involved)
(the university's website also mentions the club in their PG page,
unlike GU: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/gradc/aboutus/index.html )
CONTACTS: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/gradc/aboutus/staff/index.html

- Nottingham has a PG association which is more like a mix between the
SRC (represents all PG students) and the international society (trips,
salsa classes, etc.) : http://www.su.nottingham.ac.uk/postgraduate/representation/

Rob: Do you want to ask them?

[Omar Kooheji]

Looking at other post grad clubs is a good idea. Mentioning that the
exist and learning from then is very important. The fact that having
one puts us on the same level as oxford is interesting...

On 3/5/10, Xuan-Linh Labbe <xlinh...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Seumas Bates]

Okay dokay, I've added a section on Community to get the ball rolling.
Please comment away, as I believe this section might prove crucial in
taking us out of the realm of 'just another coffee bar'.

On 5 Mar, 23:53, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Looking at other post grad clubs is a good idea. Mentioning that the
> exist and learning from then is very important. The fact that having
> one puts us on the same level as oxford is interesting...
>

> On 3/5/10, Xuan-Linh Labbe <xlinh.la...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have found a few PG clubs on Google. They tend to be slightly bigger
> > structures than the HRC, but still similar in their purpose.
>

> > - Oxford University Club:http://www.club.ox.ac.uk/(also offers

[Paul Connor]

Seumas,

There were 3 documents in total, which in order of precedence are

Club Constitution
Club Rules
Club Policy

If I have old electronic copies lurking around I'll dig them out, but
they are likely to need a bit of formatting to bring them into this
century.

Rules were intended as clarification of the constitution, for example
it went into some detail on the election process and the nitty gritty
of Single Transferable Vote. This is the kind of stuff that is
important to codify so that due procedure could be smoothly followed,
but the constitution is a document that needs to be lodged with the
authorities (University Court & an external body which is either
Licensing Board, Sheriff Court or the Police) and is perhaps best kept
as a 'big picture' document with relatively little modification.

Rules, like the constitution needed General Meeting assent for changes
whereas Policy was decided by committee (for example, are animals
allowed in the building is a fairly lightweight regulation)

Paul

[Omar Kooheji]

Looking at other post grad clubs is a good idea. Mentioning that the
exist and learning from then is very important. The fact that having
one puts us on the same level as oxford is interesting...

On 3/5/10, Xuan-Linh Labbe <xlinh...@gmail.com> wrote:

[David Russell]

As regards the postgrad rep position on the SRC council, there are two
possible reasons for it being unfilled:

*Postgrads who did their undergrad degree at Glasgow know what the SRC
is like, and don't want to be involved. Postgrads coming in from
elsewhere don't know enough about the role to put themselves forward

*Masters students are only one year, and the election to this position
is for some bizarre reason held in March. This means that the only
people who are aware of it, and can thus put themselves forward, are:
**People in their final year of undergrad at Glasgow who are going
straight into Masters.
**PhD students, who might not have the time available

Ultimately it is likely to be a combination of both of these, and I
think the idea of the HRC becoming a significant support source for
postgraduates is a good one - I think the model to aim for here is the
role of the Mature Students' Association for mature undergraduates
(technically of course virtually all postgrads are entitled to join
the MSA).

One thing I think the HRC should most definitely avoid is wider
political campaigning in the way that the SRC, and to a lesser extent
the two unions, do. The problem with this is that when these
organisations take a position on a general political issue (ie not a
specific student one like tuition fees, accomodation, course cuts
etc.) it inevitably upsets those who feel differently, and for the HRC
to be successful it has to be the natural 'home' on campus for all
postgrads regardless of political persuasion.

"I didn't know the mature students already had a building? where/what
is it? "

It's on Oakfield Avenue, across from the sports center. IIRC they
don't have the whole building, they have a floor of a building they
share with one of the university's admin services.

[Michael Comerford]

I'd be keen for the HRC to be reflect in the representational structure, this needn't detract from the SRC I think it would be useful in the first instance for someone from the HRC to formally sit on the SRC Council (with or without voting rights, etc.)

More importantly a marketing point for the HRC could be to get involved in the fluffier issues of student life so we could hold workshops on how to survive your PhD etc. or something similar, responding to the needs of the membership.

Maybe this democratic side of the HRC we should take out of the Business plan thread so we don't get too confused.

One thing I think the HRC should most definitely avoid is wider political campaigning in the way that the SRC, and to a lesser extent the two unions, do. The problem with this is that when these organisations take a position on a general political issue (ie not a specific student one like tuition fees, accomodation, course cuts etc.) it inevitably upsets those who feel differently, and for the HRC to be successful it has to be the natural 'home' on campus for all postgrads regardless of political persuasion.

I'm not spoiling for an argument but on this last point I disagree - I think all sorts of membership organisations should camapign politically on issues the membership feel strongly about, how these are chosen should be as democratic as possible to ensure parts of the membership don't become isolated. However, this is really hypothetical musings right now, let's focus on the business plan and management structure.


 

[Michael Comerford]

Oh Also I had a look at the Business gateway website and picked up their starting a business guide which includes notes on business plans. I've uploaded to the group so feel free to look through.

[Paul Connor]

The president is (or was) entitled to attend and vote in SRC meetings
as an ex officio member.

On Mar 7, 12:27 pm, Michael Comerford

[Thomas Coles]

" I'm not sure what you mean by 'Graduate School', could you elaborate, perhaps on the main thread? -Seumas Bates 3/6/10 2:56 PM"

All I was trying to highlight was that, in my experience, the main way that PGs engage with the University socially is through their individual Departments and Faculties (or whatever they're going to be called from now on). Social events run by members of the department. The sort of 'meet and greets' you get at the beginning of term. Generally the Departments don't make too much effort to do this with Undergrads (there's too many of them). But its a big part of their community-building efforts within subjects.

I think trying to make it obvious to course conveners (Masters courses), and conference Organizers, that coming to the PG club is a better option than going to Oddbins and buying a hundred quid of wine to drink in an office with the desks pushed to one side. But you have to be comparable to the 'three bottles of wine for a tenner' school of things, cheaper even, or better and only slightly more expensive. How about £100 for food + 20 bottles of wine flat fee. I've been to events at the HRC along these lines, and there was no effort to spruce the place up beforehand. Drinks vouchers etc etc. These are normal practicalities that would need to be costed, and discounting can only really be considered once we have general costings.

Other ideas: 5 cups of coffee if you get someone else to sign up?

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 5, 3:32 pm, Morag Hunter <biodynam...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi John
>
> You obviously knw a lot about the history of the club.  It would be
> useful to know what went wrong in the late 70s / early 80s and the
> solution, also how long that solution worked for.  I'm not sure, but
> I've been told that the club was fairly successful until about three
> years ago.

I'll have to check some of my notes to get the dates of some events
correct, and I am not willing to go into some of the reasons in a
public forum. However, I think it was in the late 70s that the Club
got a competent manager, and started using a professional accountant.

The results of various measures taken then, together with competent
committees, lasted for most of the 80s, and, I think, into the 90s.
Again, I'll have to check my records.

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 5, 3:36 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> That is assuming my initial framework is sound.
> I have only the business acumen I was born with, and no formal
> training in putting together a business plan.
> This just seems to be the sensible way to do this.
> I'm approaching the problem like i would a research paper... Start
> with the intro, state the problem, then a statement of methods, and a
> further work section.
> Is that so wrong? :)

Seems perfectly sensible to me. Keep it simple.

[Morag Hunter]

How about £100 for food + 20
> bottles of wine flat fee. I've been to events at the HRC along these lines,
> and there was no effort to spruce the place up beforehand.

I think that, if this was the price charged, it is no wonder the club
was in trouble. There is no way that is viable.

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 7, 12:27 pm, Michael Comerford
<commissarkollon...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> > One thing I think the HRC should most definitely avoid is wider political
> > campaigning in the way that the SRC, and to a lesser extent the two unions,
> > do. The problem with this is that when these organisations take a position
> > on a general political issue (ie not a specific student one like tuition
> > fees, accomodation, course cuts etc.) it inevitably upsets those who feel
> > differently, and for the HRC to be successful it has to be the natural
> > 'home' on campus for all postgrads regardless of political persuasion.
>
> I'm not spoiling for an argument but on this last point I disagree - I
> think all sorts of membership organisations should camapign politically on
> issues the membership feel strongly about, how these are chosen should be as
> democratic as possible to ensure parts of the membership don't become
> isolated. However, this is really hypothetical musings right now, let's
> focus on the business plan and management structure.

I'll comment briefly, as I agree that the structure is more important.

The SRC is the 'political wing' of the student body. The unions - QMU,
GUU and the Club, are the social bodies. I would like the situation to
remain like that (or return to that?)

[Omar Kooheji]

We need to start giving out the responsibility of writing the different sections to people.

They should be concise and to the point, avoiding needless repetition and redundancy.

They also need to easy to read.

Unfortunately I don't have much time before Wednesday, So I'm not sure how much I'm going to get done.

Does anyone want to volunteer to write sections. 

[Thomas Coles]

I am not sure I have expertise in any of the areas, though my prose is okay.

I'm going to re-organise Section 3.3 (Business Structure) by integrating the previous business plan (the Powerpoint) and the comments on here. By dividing it into 'Business Structure' (Employee positions and structure), 'Business Practices' (Day-to day duties, eg: responsibilities) 'Services' (ie: products/food hours/promotions) ' I'll keep everything commented. There will be a lot of place-holders and options left open as we don't have any definite decisions as of yet.

So I volunteer to do that now. Seumas has already done sterling work on the Community aspect, and its looking good. We really don't have much information on the History beyond anecdote -- we need to get ahold of previous accounts, and the 2009/10 CoM will need to have some input.

Thinking about it, Section 1 is important only to distinguish ourselves from the past. As long as we have a well thought out Community & Business proposal, one that is objectively realistic and practical then we have something to get going with. I see a trend of suggesting that "the past is past", which I approve of, though of course it must be learned from. Maybe this is just me pushing a 'lets not get bogged down in recriminations' agenda, but there we go.

Give me a shout if there is a problem, as with Omar, I'm quite busy (Tuesdays especially) so we'll see how much I can do between now and Wednesday.

Tom

[Seumas Bates]

Though, I don't wish to delay any more than necessary, I think it's
fair to point out that Wednesday is not the deadline for submission of
this! If folk are too busy to get it all squared away before then it's
not the end of the world. Better we get this right then get it
rushed.

On Mar 8, 3:10 pm, Thomas Coles <tomco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not sure I have expertise in any of the areas, though my prose is okay.
>
> I'm going to re-organise Section 3.3 (Business Structure) by integrating the
> previous business plan (the Powerpoint) and the comments on here. By
> dividing it into 'Business Structure' (Employee positions and structure),
> 'Business Practices' (Day-to day duties, eg: responsibilities) 'Services'
> (ie: products/food hours/promotions) ' I'll keep everything commented. There
> will be a lot of place-holders and options left open as we don't have any
> definite decisions as of yet.
>
> So I volunteer to do that now. Seumas has already done sterling work on the
> Community aspect, and its looking good. We really don't have much
> information on the History beyond anecdote -- we need to get ahold of
> previous accounts, and the 2009/10 CoM will need to have some input.
>
> Thinking about it, Section 1 is important only to distinguish ourselves from
> the past. As long as we have a well thought out Community & Business
> proposal, one that is objectively realistic and practical then we have
> something to get going with. I see a trend of suggesting that "the past is
> past", which I approve of, though of course it must be learned from. Maybe
> this is just me pushing a 'lets not get bogged down in recriminations'
> agenda, but there we go.
>
> Give me a shout if there is a problem, as with Omar, I'm quite busy
> (Tuesdays especially) so we'll see how much I can do between now and
> Wednesday.
>
> Tom
>

> On 8 March 2010 11:31, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > We need to start giving out the responsibility of writing the different
> > sections to people.
>
> > They should be concise and to the point, avoiding needless repetition and
> > redundancy.
>
> > They also need to easy to read.
>
> > Unfortunately I don't have much time before Wednesday, So I'm not sure how
> > much I'm going to get done.
>
> > Does anyone want to volunteer to write sections.
>

> >> hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> >> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.
>
> >  --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Hetherington Research Club - General Discussion Group" group.
> > To post to this group, send an email to
> > hetherington...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Michael Comerford]

Yeah your right tomorrow is not the deadline so best not to rush, we can give a fairly good outline of what 'we' as a quasi-autonomous collective think is the way forward.

What do we want to have ready in terms of tomorrow's meeting, a list of who's standing from this group? and a sort of block manifesto i.e. the skeleton business plan and other ideas that have emerged from here.

I have a day off tomorrow so have time to collate anything we want to have ready for the meeting. If people let me know I can put some stuff together.

Michael

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[Morag Hunter]

I'd like to wish you all the best for tomorrow. I can't be there, but
it has been great seeing all of the enthusiasm here and the obvious
amount of effort you are all putting in. I think you have a huge task
on your hands, and I admire you all for taking this on. Thank you
all.

On 9 Mar, 16:59, Michael Comerford <commissarkollon...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> Yeah your right tomorrow is not the deadline so best not to rush, we can
> give a fairly good outline of what 'we' as a quasi-autonomous collective
> think is the way forward.
>
> What do we want to have ready in terms of tomorrow's meeting, a list of
> who's standing from this group? and a sort of block manifesto i.e. the
> skeleton business plan and other ideas that have emerged from here.
>
> I have a day off tomorrow so have time to collate anything we want to have
> ready for the meeting. If people let me know I can put some stuff together.
>
> Michael
>

> > > >> hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>

> > > >> .
> > > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.
>
> > > >  --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Hetherington Research Club - General Discussion Group" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send an email to
> > > > hetherington...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > > > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>

[Norman Gray]

Greetings,

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010, Michael Comerford wrote:

> Yeah your right tomorrow is not the deadline so best not to rush, we can
> give a fairly good outline of what 'we' as a quasi-autonomous collective
> think is the way forward.

+1 to that.

I've been overwhelmingly busy over this weekend and this week so far, so
I haven't been able to do anything more than skim the list. For my
benefit, and the benefit of anyone else who's joined in here fairly
late, can someone summarise where we've got to?

Michael asks:

> What do we want to have ready in terms of tomorrow's meeting, a list of
> who's standing from this group? and a sort of block manifesto i.e. the
> skeleton business plan and other ideas that have emerged from here.

We seem to have

* A skeleton business plan. I take it the google doc version is still
the master version, yes? The link for that appears to be
<http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Ae-xxxWTnnmMZG4yOHpicl8xZ2pjMndraGI&hl=en_GB>,
but I'm not sure what the permissions are.

* I think I saw a proposed EGM agenda flit past -- has that suggestion
been at least partly accepted by the current CoM for tomorrow
evening? Is the current version of that posted anywhere? Is there
anything left to worry about, there, concerning the constitutional
niceties of the election?

* We have a collection of list folk who've offered to stand (I think that
was only a couple of messages back (ah yes,
<http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general/msg/b0f4656b2c21cd8e>,
with some subsequent additions).

* And, of course, most importantly, we have an engaged and effective
community here.

Have I missed anything?

Is there anything of those that it'd be useful to have fresh eyes on,
before tomorrow's meeting?

All the best,

Norman

--
Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk

[Thomas Coles]

Fair point Seumas,

I've spent some time getting some actual course-work done the past few days. But there is now a basic outline of the business proposal in the document now. All ready for content.

Much appreciated Morag, from all the expertise exhibited in the 'intention to stand' thread, I think we have a great group of folk.

Tom

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com.

[Tom Coles]

I sent of a revised EGM to Eileen, but haven't heard anything back. I
am going to post it to the Facebook Group anyway tomorrow morning, if
I don't hear differently before then.

On 9 Mar, 21:46, Thomas Coles <tomco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fair point Seumas,
>
> I've spent some time getting some actual course-work done the past few days.
> But there is now a basic outline of the business proposal in the document
> now. All ready for content.
>
> Much appreciated Morag, from all the expertise exhibited in the 'intention
> to stand' thread, I think we have a great group of folk.
>
> Tom
>

> > > > > >> hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-g eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > ><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > > > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com><
> > ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ral%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com >
>

> > > > > >> .
> > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.
>
> > > > > >  --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > > Groups
> > > > > > "Hetherington Research Club - General Discussion Group" group.
> > > > > > To post to this group, send an email to
> > > > > > hetherington...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > > > > > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-g eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > ><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > > > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com><
> > ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ral%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com >
>

> > > > > > .
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.
>
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > > "Hetherington Research Club - General Discussion Group" group.
> > > > To post to this group, send an email to
> > > > hetherington...@googlegroups.com.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > > > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-g eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
>

[Omar Kooheji]

On 9 March 2010 20:41, Norman Gray <nor...@astro.gla.ac.uk> wrote:

Greetings,

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010, Michael Comerford wrote:

> Yeah your right tomorrow is not the deadline so best not to rush, we can
> give a fairly good outline of what 'we' as a quasi-autonomous collective
> think is the way forward.

+1 to that.

I've been overwhelmingly busy over this weekend and this week so far, so
I haven't been able to do anything more than skim the list.  For my
benefit, and the benefit of anyone else who's joined in here fairly
late, can someone summarise where we've got to?

Michael asks:

> What do we want to have ready in terms of tomorrow's meeting, a list of
> who's standing from this group? and a sort of block manifesto i.e. the
> skeleton business plan and other ideas that have emerged from here.

We seem to have

 * A skeleton business plan.  I take it the google doc version is still
   the master version, yes?  The link for that appears to be
   <http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Ae-xxxWTnnmMZG4yOHpicl8xZ2pjMndraGI&hl=en_GB>,
   but I'm not sure what the permissions are.

Google doc is the master at the moment, I can give edit permission to anyone who wants it.

 

 * I think I saw a proposed EGM agenda flit past -- has that suggestion
   been at least partly accepted by the current CoM for tomorrow
   evening?  Is the current version of that posted anywhere?  Is there
   anything left to worry about, there, concerning the constitutional
   niceties of the election?

It's not been passed by the committee. I'll ask Eileen to do so.

 

 * We have a collection of list folk who've offered to stand (I think that
   was only a couple of messages back (ah yes,
   <http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general/msg/b0f4656b2c21cd8e>,
   with some subsequent additions).

We do, there might be other people who will stand and some people who are willing to stand/vote might not be able to unless membership is sorted out 

 

 * And, of course, most importantly, we have an engaged and effective
   community here.

Yes

 

Have I missed anything?

 

 

Is there anything of those that it'd be useful to have fresh eyes on,
before tomorrow's meeting?

All the best,

Norman


--
Norman Gray  :  http://nxg.me.uk

[Morag Hunter]

Hi Thomas

I am confused about the agenda. My understanding was that the
committee had consulted with the university before publishing theirs,
and that this had been sent to the membership of the club. So why
should yours, which has been written by a few select people here,
supercede that? You say that you sent it to Eileen, but she is not on
the committee, is she?

I can understand that there may be concerns that the agenda written by
the committee is not perfect. However, it is written by the elected
members and was sent to the members.

I'm sure you are doing this with the best of intentions. However,
given that (as I understand it) one of the problems this list has been
identifying is a lack of communication and transparency by the
committee, and that on this occasion it appears that they have
published an agenda, maybe it would be best to allow them to use their
format.

As I said earlier, I am immensely appreciative of all the hard work
being done here, and I am not meaning to criticise.

However, I feel that it is important that the outgoing committee be
treated with respect. Apart from anything else, we do not know who
will be at the meeting tomorrow. I am sure that none of us want
arguments about what, after all, are not important issues. What is
important is that we allow the committee to resign, if they want to,
and look to the future. The agenda they have sent is sufficient for
that.

[eileen...@googlemail.com]

Dear Morag,

Let me allay some of your fears that the Committee is being disrespected !

There is no intention of this groups proposed agenda "superceding" that of the Committee's, it is merely intended to supplement it.

The agenda that the Committee released provided a framework for tonight's meeting, but the form the rest of the meeting takes is open to the wishes of the membership.

As you can see from the excellent work put in by all on this forum there is a real drive and intention to get the club re-opened, and the EGM is the perfect place to air all of these wonderful ideas.

The agenda was sent to me because as the (ex) staff rep at the Hetherington I have been in almost daily contact with the Committee, and have helped them publicise statements etc.

As you quite rightly commented, I am not on the Committee, but I think that now I would like to stand as an Ordinary member.

Staff members were dissuaded from continuing their club membership once they took up employment, but that is quite obviously no longer a barrier !

Having worked at the club for 6 years, and as the staff rep for 3 of those, I have a wealth of information about the club's daily operation that I think will be useful for the new Committee and management.

I hope I have answered your questions Morag, I saw from one of your posts that you can't make the meeting tonight, but I am in Uni all day, so let's meet for a coffee and I can answer any other questions you may have.

Eileen
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com.

[Thomas Coles]

Completely fair,

the point in having a revised agenda was simply so that all the discussions (here and elsewhere) that had occurred since the original was circulated (a week ago) were reflected, and everyone was working from the same point

I'm not sure that it has been approved by the University, why would it have to be?

This is the original agenda:

"1) Statement from the CoM.

2) Resignation of the CoM

3) Questions from the floor

4) Elections for a new Executive and CoM

5) Dates for further meetings ( To be decided by newly elected Executive and CoM )"

I assumed Eileen was on the board, I sent it to her as a suggestion. As it it far to late to have it approved, I agree that it will be best to just go with the original agenda.

Totally agree with treating the board with respect (that was one of the intentions of the revised agenda) and so on. My only worry is that people who haven't been following this group are going to arrive tomorrow uninformed of any of the issues, and having a Agenda that reflects what the different issues raised by the discussions are would have improved transparency/communication. I had hoped that it a revised agenda would have been sent out to members on Monday, but obviously if I've not been contacting the board (communication issues!) this hasn't happened or been considered. In light of that, the previous agenda will work.

Apologies for the confusion

Tom

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com.

[Thomas Coles]

I agree with all of Eileen's points.

Does this mean that the revised agenda has been accepted?

In the end (as I mentioned in the other thread) it doesn't really matter.

Tom

[eileen...@googlemail.com]

Hi Tom,

I am still awaiting word on that from the present CoM, and I'll let everyone know as soon as I hear.

But as you say, we are prepared in either case and can look forward to a productive evening.

I have also taken the liberty of approaching David Newall to enquire about the earliest possible date for a meeting with him and the new CoM to present the business plan and get the ball rolling for re-opening the club.

I also read Frank's recent post........
"I have been led to believe that we are to be allowed the use of our
premises" can I ask who has given you that information Frank?

It is a wonderful piece of news, because so far we have been given no such undertaking by David Newall and it is one we would certainly welcome !

Eileen

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

---

From: Thomas Coles <tomc...@gmail.com>

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:33:37 +0000

To: <hetherington...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [HetheringtonClub] Tonight's EGM

[Frank Bishop]

Yeah, its in oakfield, though it was originally next door to the
Hetherington.

On 5 Mar, 17:28, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I totally didn't know that... And I was a mature student. Oh well.

>
> On 5 March 2010 17:22, Morag Hunter <biodynam...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > I didn't know the mature students already had a building? where/what is
> > it?
>

> > Omar
>
> > It's opposite the Gym, on Oakfield Avenue.  They have networked
> > computers, study and chill out space, and use of a huge kitchen with
> > microwave, fridge etc.
>
> > On 5 Mar, 17:13, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Seamus, Morag I think the two go hand in hand,
>
> > > mature students are more likely to be post grads as well.

>
> > > I didn't know the mature students already had a building? where/what is
> > it?
>

> > > I think that we should stress the impact one both and maybe confer with
> > the
> > > SRC on this matter. I'm not sure that they would agree to a Postgrad CLub
> > > rep replacing the PGC but we could offer to take some of the burdon off
> > of
> > > them.
>
> > > I know the SRC have a rep on the QM board, I don't know if there is a
> > > history of the other happening. We need to figure out a way to do this
> > that
> > > is amenable to both the Uni and the SRC but doesn't put so much work on
> > one
> > > person such that it destroys their degree.
>
> > > I think the PGC should represent the students, but perhaps we should
> > co-opt
> > > the the post grad rep's and the post grad convenors onto the PGC
> > committee.
> > > as full or non voting members.
>
> > > On 5 March 2010 17:04, Morag Hunter <biodynam...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Hi Seamus
>
> > > > Are you saying that we should concentrate on PGs and international
> > > > students and not on mature students?  This may, unfortunately, be what
> > > > the university wants.  The mature students already have their own
> > > > building, and I can see that the university may argue that they do not
> > > > need more provision.  I am not saying I agree, but the official
> > > > statement from the university mentioned a social facility for
> > > > postgraduates, and did not mention mature students.
>
> > > > On 5 Mar, 16:51, Seumas Bates <seumas.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I think an angle which has so far been neglected in this thread is
> > the
> > > > > community element to the club. Never underestimate the value of the
> > > > > club as an informal support network for post-grads and the rest. Yes
> > > > > the University will be looking for a solid set of finances and money
> > > > > making schemes but they'll be looking for more too.
>
> > > > > I think re-branding the Club as the hub for post-graduate
> > > > > representation and support on campus is a crucial means of getting
> > the
> > > > > Uni on side (and ultimately making us money too). Post-grads are the
> > > > > Uni's key target demographic and if we can convince them that we can
> > > > > provide the sort of safety net the Unions and SRC provide we're on to
> > > > > a winner. I'm told the position of Post-Grad Representative in the
> > SRC
> > > > > has been unfilled for the second year in a row, why shouldn't someone
> > > > > from the CoM fill this role and fit into the structure of the SRC? We
> > > > > don't have a place in the Uni's Freshers' Week program or Freshers'
> > > > > address, why not? There appears to be no provision for support for
> > the
> > > > > many post-grad/mature student specific problems, the SRC offers such
> > > > > guidance, why should we not become a hub and distribution centre for
> > > > > such support?
> > > > > We can't be the same as the QM or GU due to our particular structural
> > > > > differences but there is no reason we shouldn't take on some of their
> > > > > responsibilities.
>
> > > > > My gut instinct tells me the Uni will approve of a movement towards
> > > > > the community, support and welfare of its post-grand / international
> > > > > student population and I genuinely think a section of any business
> > > > > plan should stress this at length.
>
> > > > > This does not mean we should replace the SRC/Unions in this matter,
> > > > > just that we work with them to broaden the take-up of such services.
> > > > > The structures are already in place, we just need to expand on them.
> > > > > Let's make the HRC an active political body on campus so that its
> > > > > acronym because a common, and accepted piece of terminology
>
> > > > > On Mar 5, 4:00 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Thanks Sara,
>
> > > > > > The other option is to hire in a Chef who manages the operations of
> > the
> > > > > > Kitchen.
>
> > > > > > We need to investigate the viability of this.
>
> > > > > > We might want to include in the business plan a list of decisions
> > like
> > > > this
> > > > > > that we made and out justification for choosing one alternative
> > over
> > > > the
> > > > > > other.
>
> > > > > > On 5 March 2010 15:52, Sara Thomas <sa.tho...@live.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > Having worked in a management capacity in venues ranging in size
> > from
> > > > > > > a couple of hundred to 5000, I'd be more than happy to help with
> > > > > > > setting up operational procedures, writing job description for
> > the GM
> > > > > > > position, setting industry-appropriate salary levels, writing
> > staff
> > > > > > > training manuals, risk assessments etc - give me a shout.
>
> > > > > > > I would be *extremely* reluctant for catering to be outsourced -
> > you
> > > > > > > lose so much control this way and I think we'd find it difficult
> > to
> > > > > > > respond to the needs/likes of the customers.  By all means start
> > off
> > > > > > > with a simple menu and expand upon it when there's more
> > confidence in
> > > > > > > the business as a whole, but don't let's give away the store...

[Omar Kooheji]

Will people stop answering my rhetorical question.

I've had 5 people tell me there is a mature students' association.

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[Seumas Bates]

I'm tempted to tell you where the MSA is and make it 6, but I'll
refrain.

Frank, I echo Eileen's question. If you've heard that we can confirm
the use of the building that would be a big boost. Could you post here/
e-mail me with your source of this news?

On Mar 12, 9:05 am, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Will people stop answering my rhetorical question.
>
> I've had 5 people tell me there is a mature students' association.
>

> > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
> > > > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-g­eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com><hetheringtonclub-g
> > eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<eneral%25252Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>
>
> > > > ><hetheringtonclub-gene
> > > > > > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>
> > <ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ral%25252Bun...@googlegroups.co­m>
> > ><
> > > > ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<ral%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com­>
> > <ral%25252Bun...@googlegroups.com<ral%2525252Bunsubscribe@googlegroup­s.com>>

>
> > > > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> > ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com <ral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
> > > > <hetheringtonclub-general%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-g­eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com><hetheringtonclub-g
> > eneral%252Buns...@googlegroups.com<eneral%25252Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>

>
> > > > > > .
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group at
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>
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> >http://groups.google.com/group/hetheringtonclub-general?hl=en-GB.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Omar Kooheji]

I just had a look at the document... Wow it's grown. Well done guys.

Still a long way to go, but I think the collaborative editing was a good idea.

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[JohnEwing]

On Mar 12, 1:42 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I just had a look at the document... Wow it's grown. Well done guys.

I have now had a look at the document, and I don't see how the plan
will help solve the problems - indeed to some extent I think the
problems will get worse.

I will make a minor point first of all - under 3.2 is a section about
'welfare provision'. That is the responsibility of the SRC and the
University, not the social clubs. Providing such services would cost
money - which the Club does not have. If the SRC is not providing
suitable services, then the PG reps on Council should apply pressure.
Whether there are any reps at present is another question.

Now on to section 3.3. "The Hetherington Research Club is an
essentially profitable ... organisation." Not so - a deficit of ~£54k
in the year to the end of June 2008, a projected deficit of ~£66k in
the year to the end of June 2009, and a projected deficit of ~£48k for
the following year.These figures also show that the suggestion of
doing without management, claimed to save ~£40k IIRC, still leaves a
massive hole in the finances.

The entire operation has to be studied and changed. From what I can
see from the accounts, the bar started having problems in 2003/4, with
the net profit dropping from 27% in 2002/3 to 17% in 2007/8. The
practice had been to aim for ~25%. The average bar markup has dropped
considerably as well. So the pricing policy needs to be examined - but
obviously putting up prices will deter customers. I would be looking
closely at suppliers' prices. Is it worthwhile to be part of the
purchasing consortium? Years ago we decided that we were better off
making our own arrangements.

I've said elsewhere, and a recent treasurer has also said, that having
catering from 9am to 9pm is just not viable. Provide full catering
only at lunchtime, with perhaps snacks in the early evening. I'm
pretty certain that the University will pick up this point. It would
be better to have a workable plan, rather than have the University
foist a solution on us, like they did with QM in 1981.

I think the Club should concentrate on what works, or will work with
some changes. So the idea of a beer garden should be thrown out, at
least until the Club is back on a sound financial footing, which may
take years. (Incidentally, from what I can make out on the plans for
the basement, I don't think Building Control would approve.)

The original business plan, as presented on the first of March, seems
to work on the basis of keeping the staff levels as they were. Sorry,
but I do not see that as practical. I think that the Club has to
contract, at least in the short to medium term.

I'll make further comments later, once I've gone over the business
plan in more detail. However, as most of you don't know me, I should
perhaps point out that I was Club Chairman for two years, Treasurer
for three (non-consecutive) years, and Secretary for, I think six
months.

John

[Sarah]

Just a quick comment (probably in the wrong place!)

There has been talk of the Club membership including international
students. In fact this is meant to be exchange students - so Socrates/
Erasmus and JYA, for example. It was not meant to extend to all and
every international student. There are good reasons for this - one,
of course, is that exchange students are usually slightly older (as
they are normally in honours or the equivalent).

John - I agree with everything you say.

[Thomas Coles]

John,

I agree that the "profitable... organisation" aspect is factually untrue, the plan should be adjusted to read that it is a "potentially profitable institution". The fact is that with its financial and campus positioning, i.e.: the grant, rent-free, community staffing etc it SHOULD be possible to be profitable. The ex-staff have commented that on a day-to-day basis the club produced a surplus - obviously this is a naive position to take, but even with pricing as it was the club was not hemorrhaging money. The issues, as you and others have mentioned, is better markup, better stock control, proper operational procedures, and active oversight.

Again, issues such as the beer garden / other improvements. I agree we should focus on getting the club back on a "secure financial footing", but some of the major failures seem to have been mid-to-long-term. Any plan that we produce and present should not just be aiming to 'get us back to where we were but sustainable', it should be progressive, and have clear 1, 2 and 5 year targets for improving the service. A club which is aiming to survive probably wont, a club aiming to prosper is much more likely to. Saying that, I don't think we should spend considerable time planning things that are far off into the future, but they should be considered. The CoM is not a day-to-day management group (that is staffing), but a planning/development/social group.

Again, the 'Welfare' issue. I understand that the SRC / University structure is already somewhat set-up for this, but the HRC is a 'club', and not a primarily commercial institution. Student welfare and social issues are exactly what it should exist to serve. By collaborating with the SRC we can make their services better and go someway to supplement them, as well as taking advantage of what they offer we become a more important part of GU. Our remit is to serve the Members, not 'customers', and Welfare services are about social activities and pastoral work -- they are CoM/Membership issues and therefore incur few business costs. There has to be a considered balance between member welfare and business survival. It is a difficult balance, but it is the point of the HRC. Otherwise we are just another (cheap) bar, and without some sort of differentiation it will be difficult to defend the existence of the HRC to the University.

This is not completely explicit in the constitution, though it is how I would hope we interpret it (and may be useful to amend):

"2.1 The object of the Club shall be to foster, by the provision of catering and recreational
facilities, interaction between postgraduate and other advanced students and members of staff
of the University of Glasgow."

Also, do we have any documentation about the co-op/consortium purchasing scheme? It would be useful to see how it actually functioned. It seems commonsense (often common, often nonsense) that pooling the resources of various Unions would help (but maybe it doesn't). How has it progressed recently? We mentioned using the QM's purchasing power -- is this still a possibility?

I think the general point should be to create a business plan that considers the past, but works as a standalone document. We have to remember that we currently have nothing: and this is simultaneously a challenge and a great opportunity.

Tom

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 16, 3:24 pm, Thomas Coles <tomco...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately I probably won't be able to
reply until tomorrow - by which time I might have more information
regarding the consortium.

John

[Omar Kooheji]

Taking a purely pragmatic view of the Student welfare debate if we expend a small amount of effort to host welfare events the likelihood that the people who benefit from these events will drink in the bar during the events and might come back.

Bars Host Pub quiz's to attract people, they give away a little beer to ensure that they make a lot more money over the bar.

John

[Seumas Bates]

While I on no account wish to stifle what is emerging as an excellent
debate I wonder if I might encourage people to use the seperate
threads set up / being set up to focus this discussion into
appropriate areas of our general strategy? I'll try and get each chair
to get their thread up within the next 24 hours and follow Tom's fine
example.

On 16 Mar, 15:48, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Taking a purely pragmatic view of the Student welfare debate if we expend a
> small amount of effort to host welfare events the likelihood that the people
> who benefit from these events will drink in the bar during the events and
> might come back.
>
> Bars Host Pub quiz's to attract people, they give away a little beer to
> ensure that they make a lot more money over the bar.
>

> On 16 March 2010 15:33, JohnEwing <j...@johnewing.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 16, 3:24 pm, Thomas Coles <tomco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> > Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately I probably won't be able to
> > reply until tomorrow - by which time I might have more information
> > regarding the consortium.
>
> > John
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Hetherington Research Club - General Discussion Group" group.
> > To post to this group, send an email to
> > hetherington...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > hetheringtonclub-g...@googlegroups.com<hetheringtonclub-gene­ral%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at

[Thomas Coles]

Cheers Seumas,

also, if I may suggest appending "(Business Plan Development)" before the name of each thread, so as to show that they are the 'official' discussion place, to keep things neat.

Tom

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[JohnEwing]

(As hte separate thread as suggested by Seumas has not yet been
created, I'll give a fairly brief response here.)

On Mar 16, 3:24 pm, Thomas Coles <tomco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Again, issues such as the beer garden / other improvements. I agree we
> should focus on getting the club back on a "secure financial footing", but
> some of the major failures seem to have been mid-to-long-term.

These failures should have been identified much earlier (obviously),
and remedial action taken. In some cases I suggest that should have
meant the CoM saying 'well, that idea didn't work, so scrap phase 2'
or words to that effect.

> Any plan that
> we produce and present should not just be aiming to 'get us back to where we
> were but sustainable', it should be progressive, and have clear 1, 2 and 5
> year targets for improving the service. A club which is aiming to survive
> probably wont, a club aiming to prosper is much more likely to.

Any plan produced must show to GU that we can get the Club back on its
feet _financially_ within a very short time period. I suggest that
that is easy, and if such a plan is implemented, we can then sit back
and create the longer-term plans, and consider them properly.

> Again, the 'Welfare' issue. I understand that the SRC / University structure
> is already somewhat set-up for this, but the HRC is a 'club', and not a
> primarily commercial institution. Student welfare and social issues are
> exactly what it should exist to serve.

I disagree. The Club exists, and in my opinion should exist, for the
reasons given in paragraph 2 of the Constitution. Student welfare and
social issues would be additional to that. AFAIK neither QM nor GUU
deal with student welfare or social issues - it's not their job.
(Actually, I suspect QM still does get involved in social issues.)

[snip]

> There has to be a considered balance
> between member welfare and business survival. It is a difficult balance, but
> it is the point of the HRC. Otherwise we are just another (cheap) bar, and
> without some sort of differentiation it will be difficult to defend the
> existence of the HRC to the University.

The differentiation is that the Club provides catering and
recreational facilities for research students, advanced study
students, etc. As has been said elsewhere, such students, older than
undergraduates, can feel uncomfortable in the QM or GUU.

> This is not completely explicit in the constitution, though it is how I
> would hope we interpret it (and may be useful to amend):
>
> "2.1 The object of the Club shall be to foster, by the provision of catering
> and recreational
> facilities, interaction between postgraduate and other advanced students and
> members of staff
> of the University of Glasgow."

I haven't yet found the original constitution, but the object of the
Club was roughly as stated in the present one. At that time (1954)
almost all research students would have been studying towards a Ph.D.
in one of the Science departments. One of the reasons the Club was
founded was to provide a place for the research students from
different departments to meet socially. Often discussions between
people in different departments would lead to different ways of
looking at things, sometimes the solution to a problem would arise
through a fresh viewpoint, etc. That aspect of the Club still existed
in, say, 1980, but had pretty well disappeared by 1985. The suggestion
in the business plan of an 'academic forum' could go a long way to
restoring that ethos, and I would like to see that emphasised more.

> Also, do we have any documentation about the co-op/consortium purchasing
> scheme? It would be useful to see how it actually functioned. It seems
> commonsense (often common, often nonsense) that pooling the resources of
> various Unions would help (but maybe it doesn't). How has it progressed
> recently? We mentioned using the QM's purchasing power -- is this still a
> possibility?

Sorry, I don't have any info. As I said elsewhere, when the consortium
was first considered by the Club, we found that it was better for us
to continue to make our own deals with suppliers.

I said I'd be brief - I'll stop there and leave further discussions to
the separate threads being created.

John

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 16, 3:48 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Taking a purely pragmatic view of the Student welfare debate if we expend a
> small amount of effort to host welfare events the likelihood that the people
> who benefit from these events will drink in the bar during the events and
> might come back.

Hosting events - fine, up to a point. Providing services - no.

John

[Seumas Bates]

Just so we're clear, the discussions we have instigated with the SRC
focus on allowing them to use the building as a space for Welfare
provision, not to actually handle that provision ourselves.

[Omar Kooheji]

I don't think the club should do to much for the welfare as that is the SRC's position but as has been noted the Club has a space that can be used for events hosted by the SRC.

Also as an aside the QM does do student welfare, They have a Student Support and Services Convenor (Formerly Campaigns Convenor), who is in charge of it.

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 18, 2:11 pm, Seumas Bates <seumas.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just so we're clear, the discussions we have instigated with the SRC
> focus on allowing them to use the building as a space for Welfare
> provision, not to actually handle that provision ourselves.

I have absolutely no problem with that (except for the requirements
for visitors to be signed-in, but that can be dealt with separately).

I suggest that there is one thing that the Club should do itself, and
that is to provide information relating to how to contact various
welfare services. I'm thinking of an extensive list of names (of
organisations), addresses, and phone numbers, under glass on a notice
board in the foyer.

John

[Omar Kooheji]

I think That's a Great Idea. 

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 18, 2:19 pm, Omar Kooheji <omarkooh...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Also as an aside the QM does do student welfare, They have a Student Support
> and Services Convenor (Formerly Campaigns Convenor), who is in charge of it.

My apologies. I guess that shows I've not been in QM for a while.

John

[Thomas Coles]

John,

"Any plan produced must show to GU that we can get the Club back on its
feet _financially_ within a very short time period. I suggest that
that is easy, and if such a plan is implemented, we can then sit back
and create the longer-term plans, and consider them properly."

My point is that this might not be enough to convince GU. The Business Plan should of course include these basic competencies, and should focus on demonstrating them - but it must also consider GU's position in regards to the marketability of the PG. If we are saying that "here is a plan to get the club back in the same service form, but with operational improvements to stabilise it financially" we risk being turned down as 'more of the same'. If we say instead that "we believe the social aspect has been taken for granted, and the lack of involvement on Members has led to financial mismanagement/lack of oversight -- this is how we intend to improve the club, and keep improving it for the long term", then I think we may get much further.

We have to opportunity to do something more than simply get everything floating again, and I think we should be aspirational in our planning.

"The differentiation is that the Club provides catering and
recreational facilities for research students, advanced study
students, etc. As has been said elsewhere, such students, older than
undergraduates, can feel uncomfortable in the QM or GUU."

I agree. However I don't think it is simply a space for eating/drinking segregated against undergraduates. It has to provide a service that is unique to the Membership - welfare provision, or even call it social provision, is a big part of it. However it is also supposed to be a place for novel thought to take place, to foster new creative solutions in each other's research - surely part of the HRC's job is to provide situations in which this can occur. It is naturally occurring, yes, but we should be aiming to make it an important part of our promotional activities.

My general point is that we should be aiming to make the HRC what it was, and more, or we risk it foundering again.

Tom

--

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 18, 3:29 pm, Thomas Coles <tomco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Any plan produced must show to GU that we can get the Club back on its
> feet _financially_ within a very short time period. I suggest that
> that is easy, and if such a plan is implemented, we can then sit back
> and create the longer-term plans, and consider them properly."
>
> My point is that this might not be enough to convince GU. The Business Plan
> should of course include these basic competencies, and should focus on
> demonstrating them - but it must also consider GU's position in regards to
> the marketability of the PG. If we are saying that "here is a plan to get
> the club back in the same service form, but with operational improvements to
> stabilise it financially" we risk being turned down as 'more of the same'.

I think that drastic changes are needed in the 'service form' to bring
about financial stability. Or maybe I should say 'financial
viability'. If we say anything about getting back to the same service
form I think we'll get knocked back.

> If we say instead that "we believe the social aspect has been taken for
> granted, and the lack of involvement on Members has led to financial
> mismanagement/lack of oversight -- this is how we intend to improve the
> club, and keep improving it for the long term", then I think we may get much
> further.

I'm not even sure how much of a social aspect there has been - the
last few times I was in, the place was almost empty. So, yes, we do
need to encourage the social aspect, and the 'academic fora' mentioned
elsewhere, and we should say that in the plan.

I don't really think we're arguing here; my point above was that we
must show how we will achieve short-term security; I wasn't precluding
other things.

Maybe we should discuss this over a few beers :-)

John

> "The differentiation is that the Club provides catering and
> recreational facilities for research students, advanced study
> students, etc. As has been said elsewhere, such students, older than
> undergraduates, can feel uncomfortable in the QM or GUU."
>
> I agree. However I don't think it is simply a space for eating/drinking
> segregated against undergraduates.

Nor do I; but other people have said so.

> However it is also supposed to be a place
> for novel thought to take place, to foster new creative solutions in each
> other's research - surely part of the HRC's job is to provide situations in
> which this can occur. It is naturally occurring, yes, but we should be
> aiming to make it an important part of our promotional activities.

Again, we pretty well agree - although it's been a long time since
I've seen the cross-fertilisation of ideas, shall we say.

> My general point is that we should be aiming to make the HRC what it was,
> and more, or we risk it foundering again.

I think the question here is - as it was when? Last year? Five years
ago? I suspect we agree on the general point of making the Club what
it was, but we might be thinking of different times. Ideally, of
course, we'll take the best bits from various times and combine them.

[Norman Gray]

On 2010 Mar 18, at 08:29, Thomas Coles wrote:

> If we are saying that "here is a plan to get
> the club back in the same service form, but with operational improvements to
> stabilise it financially" we risk being turned down as 'more of the same'.
> If we say instead that "we believe the social aspect has been taken for
> granted, and the lack of involvement on Members has led to financial
> mismanagement/lack of oversight -- this is how we intend to improve the
> club, and keep improving it for the long term", then I think we may get much
> further.

I appreciate what you're saying here -- that there's an element of careful presentation required here. However, the fact that there appears to have been a _systemic_ collapse in the management of the club, as opposed to there being any one person or feature that can be pointed to and blamed, could be plausibly taken to imply that the management of the club _doesn't_ have to be radically altered.

That is, I don't believe that the club's management was broken as designed; it had simply been unmaintained, and had rusted.

John (I think):

> "The differentiation is that the Club provides catering and
> recreational facilities for research students, advanced study
> students, etc. As has been said elsewhere, such students, older than
> undergraduates, can feel uncomfortable in the QM or GUU."

And staff! And staff!

Tom again:

> I agree. However I don't think it is simply a space for eating/drinking
> segregated against undergraduates. It has to provide a service that is
> unique to the Membership - welfare provision, or even call it social
> provision, is a big part of it. However it is also supposed to be a place
> for novel thought to take place, to foster new creative solutions in each
> other's research - surely part of the HRC's job is to provide situations in
> which this can occur. It is naturally occurring, yes, but we should be
> aiming to make it an important part of our promotional activities.

Plus...

One of the attractive things about the Research Club was that it wasn't just a beer-hall for older students, but that it had a distinct academic air -- we could call it a 'para-academic' space. That's not 'welfare' except in a very broad sense, but it is one of the quite various things (perhaps we should make a list) that made it different.

All the best,

Norman

--
Norman Gray : http://nxg.me.uk

[Seumas Bates]

I think Norman is hinting at what I believe we should be aiming for
here, and something I think everyone is broadly in favour of, which is
that at the end of the day the three areas being talked about -
Social, Welfare, and Academic - are not mutually exclusive. All three
feed into each other and inter-link, and result in what is the unique
community of the Club. Of the three I'd say the 'Welfare' bit is the
least developed and therefore (quite rightly) the most controversial,
whereas the 'Academic' side of things was previously conducted in a
more laissez-faire kind of manner. The point is that all three have
always been present in differing quantities throughout the Club's
history, it's just that now I feel the 'Welfare' and 'Academic' sides
need to be built into the club's mandate in black and white. Frankly I
think this is long overdue; the nature of the membership has clearly
changed with the changes in the University generally, when you
consider the enormous difference in University (nay British) culture
between 1980 and 2010 I think it become starkly obvious that change is
needed in what the club has to offer. I'm not talking revolution here,
merely evolution.

As to the second argument about the structure of leadership and
accountability being rusted rather than broken I personally disagree.
True the system may have worked in the past, but as I said, times
change and expectations change. My expectation is that at the end of
this process the club will have been re-structured in a more modern
style, one which differs wildly (in some respects) to the old model.

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 19, 2:37 am, Seumas Bates <seumas.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think Norman is hinting at what I believe we should be aiming for
> here, and something I think everyone is broadly in favour of, which is
> that at the end of the day the three areas being talked about -
> Social, Welfare, and Academic - are not mutually exclusive. All three
> feed into each other and inter-link, and result in what is the unique
> community of the Club. Of the three I'd say the 'Welfare' bit is the
> least developed and therefore (quite rightly) the most controversial,

OK, so perhaps someone pushing the 'welfare' side of things would care
to provide a working definition? Please.

> As to the second argument about the structure of leadership and
> accountability being rusted rather than broken I personally disagree.
> True the system may have worked in the past, but as I said, times
> change and expectations change. My expectation is that at the end of
> this process the club will have been re-structured in a more modern
> style, one which differs wildly (in some respects) to the old model.

From what I see the system that failed was partly introduced in 1995,
with the rest being introduced over successive years. By 'system' I
include the financial systems and procedures, the constitution, the
committee structure, the staffing set-up, inter alia.

John

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 19, 1:53 am, Norman Gray <nor...@astro.gla.ac.uk> wrote:

> I appreciate what you're saying here -- that there's an element of careful
> presentation required here.  However, the fact that there appears to have
> been a _systemic_ collapse in the management of the club, as opposed
> to there being any one person or feature that can be pointed to and blamed,
> could be plausibly taken to imply that the management of the club _doesn't_
> have to be radically altered.
>
> That is, I don't believe that the club's management was broken as designed;
> it had simply been unmaintained, and had rusted.

I agree with the point made by Seumas. The present system, introduced
from 1995 onwards, was broken. There are a small number of features
that brought about the collapse, as far as I can see. Some of these
are to do with the management of the club.

> John (I think):
>
> > "The differentiation is that the Club provides catering and
> > recreational facilities for research students, advanced study
> > students, etc. As has been said elsewhere, such students, older than
> > undergraduates, can feel uncomfortable in the QM or GUU."
>
> And staff!  And staff!

Sorry :-) And I should have said 'a differentiation', not 'the
differentiation'.

John

[Seumas Bates]

Welfare refers to the generally positive effect the club has always
had to the emotional well-being of its members, this has always been
the case. However I think we should do more to increase Post-Grad /
Mature Student etc. uptake of pre-existing SRC Welfare provision. This
could include little things like putting up a couple of their posters
or hosting an SRC stall in the building during Freshers' Week, or
larger things like active participation in the SRC's events such as
RAG Week or Pride Week.

[Thomas Coles]

Hello all,

I have been editing the BusinessPlan events and publicity document.

I am posting it so that people can comment on whether I am sticking to what they perceive as the task of the club, and not stepping out of, or too far within its remit. Of course we can discuss this tomorrow. I have outlined it as:

"EVENTS AND PUBLICITY

This document outlines the proposals for the Hetherington Research Club (HRC) concerning Events and Publicity. It will outline the sorts of social and entertainment events that the HRC intends to produce and support, how those events will function with relation to the aims of the business plan (profitability and communality), and how these events will be marketed and publicised, depending on the target audience.

It is not intended to include any discussion of day-to-day running of the club, but events that are supplementary to business needs. 'Supplementary' events are integral to the club functioning as a club, rather than a business. However all events will be designed to have at least a neutral (hopefully positive) effect on the club-as-business."


Cheers all,

Tom

[JohnEwing]

On Mar 22, 3:40 pm, Seumas Bates <seumas.ba...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Welfare refers to the generally positive effect the club has always
> had to the emotional well-being of its members, this has always been
> the case.

Thanks for that. I'd probably use a different word, but I can't think
of it off-hand.

> However I think we should do more to increase Post-Grad /
> Mature Student etc. uptake of pre-existing SRC Welfare provision.

That's more along the lines of 'welfare' that I was thinking of.

> This
> could include little things like putting up a couple of their posters
> or hosting an SRC stall in the building during Freshers' Week,

No problem.

> or
> larger things like active participation in the SRC's events such as
> RAG Week or Pride Week.

I'll think about that.

John