HL2 hookups

[Pete Ferrand]

I'm happy to say I got my HL2 build 9 assembled and on the air in time for SKN and it works very well.

I wonder if it's possible to have PowerSDR key the rig in the traditional manner where PowerSDR looks for an RS-232 pin closure, and if so, how. Or some other way? I'm using Windows 10. This was not mentioned in Steve's excellent video. It would allow for semi break-in, CWX, and t/r switching when PowerSDR is not focused.

Is there a signal out of the HL2 that could be used for keying a linear? There is CN1 on the N2ADR board but nothing mentioned beyond that in the docs. There is also an output of Q5 on the HL2 board, EXTTR. This says on Tx it will ground pin 1, doesn't say pin 1 of what? Is this designed for such a function?

Finally, is there a software way to reduce power below .6 watts when driving a linear that needs .2 watts? Setting the PowerSDR drive to zero only drops it to .6 on 40. Contrary to Steve's video, setting the PowerSDR band-specific gain higher than 38 does not attenuate the signal further, at least on 40 meters.

Thanks!

Pete

WB2QLL

Mount Pleasant, Wi

[in3otd]

Hello Pete,

CN1 on the N2ADR board is connected to the EXTTR signal of the H-Lv2 which, as you saw, will be grounded on TX.

The references to a "pin 1" on the H-Lv2 schematic text notes are a remnant of former builds, when these signals went to dedicated connectors - I just opened a GitHub issue as a reminder for Steve to correct that, hi.

FYI, the H-Lv2 has also a "TX inhibit" input on the PCB (on CN8); if grounded there will be no RF output - it may be useful for sequencing.

The PA output can be lowered by 7.5 dB maximum, so slightly less than 1 W - to get a lower power you'll need an external attenuator.

If 100 mW are enough for driving your PA, you can use the low-power output and change a resistor to increase its output; the default output power there should currently be 50 mW.

it *might* be possible to push the low power output to 200 mW by further increasing the gain but the power dissipation in the amplifier IC could become too high.

73 de Claudio, DK1CG / IN3OTD

[Don Solberg]

Hi Pete,

It is nice to see a fellow Wisconsin ham on this forum.  I live in northern Wisconsin.  My HL2 is driving a homebrew 1KW solid state linear, but with the HL2 I can only drive it to about 350 watts.  I use the PTT output on the N2ADR board to key the linear.  I use the PTT in with a foot switch.  I am also running PowerSDR but I have no experience with the gain turned down to minimum, I have the other problem.  

If you want to get the cleanest signal possible out of your amp, Pure Signal works very well with the HL2 and PowerSDR.

73,

Don

K9AQ

[Pete Ferrand]

Thanks, Don and Claudio, for clearing up that issue.

The PowerSDR configuration, question, tho, is really the most pressing and most important. I hope someone can help. 

Pete

[Don Solberg]

Pete,

You had two questions regarding PowerSDR, which one didn't get answered?

PowerSDR can be configured to provide a PTT output on an RS232 port.  You configure that in the CAT tab.  You don't need that as the PTT output on the HL2 already does that.

What amplifier are you planning on using that would have such low drive requirements?

73,

Don

K9AQ

[Pete Ferrand]

Hi Don, thanks for getting back to me.

I converted a Swan SS-200A into a linear 15 or so years ago when I had some mil rigs that standardly output 100mw. I can easily add attenuation but it would be even easier if I could adjust something in the UI.

In PowerSDR, I would like to use semi break-in when the cursor is focused on the Notepad screen I'm copying cw on. For that to happen I would need for PowerSDR to have, probably, an RS-232 input tied to the output of the external keyer. That's the first issue. 

However, since CWX doesn't key the HL2 in PowerSDR, I question whether the above will actually key the HL2. Hitting the MOX button does put the HL2 into transmit, but none of the CWX functions work. If the CWX functions would work, then probably PowerSDR's keying functions, including semi break-in would work. Second issue.

I suppose I could configure one RS-232 port for PowerSDR's input from they external keyer, and a second port for PowerSDR's output to the key jack of the HL2....but is this complexity needed and what happens in other modes?

Last night a third issue emerged. When using the PTT connection of the HL2 and PowerSDR is in AM mode, the HL2 is correctly put into transmit mode. However when the PTT is disconnected, the HL2 remains in transmit mode. This is with minimum drive and into a dummy load, so don't think it's rf.

And a fourth issue. Even with the soundcard (Delta II) output level at minimum, and the Tx audio gain (on the Audio/VAC1 tab) at minimum, the VOX, if engaged, always keeps the rig keyed, with no audio input.

Hope I've explained that clearly. BTW I'll be at the Waukesha hamfest tomorrow morning...say hi if you're going. Doubt I'll find any PowerSDR experts :)

Pete

[Don Solberg]

Pete,

I live 200 miles from Waukesha  so I won't be at the hamfest.  

I haven't tried CW yet on my HL2, that is on my to do list.  I chase DX and on CW you really need to be sending around 30 wpm, which I don't know if the keying relay in the HL2 is ideal for.  My plan was to use MRP40 and transmit CW using SSB.  I should then be able to do the PTT with vox.  My other choice was to us the CW keyer in PowerSDR but I haven't tried it yet.

I haven't tried AM so I can't comment on the PTT issue that you observed.  It works perfectly on SSB.

I have never been a consistent user of VOX.  I prefer a footswitch.  I was able to get vox working on PowerSDR.  The next time I am at my rig, I will test VOX and see if I experience a similar problem.

Have fun at the hamfest.  Up until a month ago I was a member of the West Allis radio club but then I moved to my cabin in northern Wisconsin.

73,

Don

K9AQ

[Pete Ferrand]

Well I'm going to be driving to the W9DYV symposium in Collinsville, IL later this month so occasional ham related driving is not unusual.

I mostly do cw rag chewing so I want semi break-in and the the HL2's key jack won't do that. I want the same from the HL2 that PowerSDR could do with the SDR-1000 - including CWX - and so far I can't see how to do that. Again, PowerSDR doesn't send cw to the HL2 as far as I can tell.

I did have an AM QSO this afternoon and the two guys I talked to said it sounded great, at least 'til the band went away on 40.

I do essentially no sideband operation but use digital modes from time to time and the programs that do that normally work well with a rig's VOX, rather than trying to key the rig with a CAT command. So while I never use VOX with voice, it would be good if it worked. And your use of CW via tone makes sense too with the contest and logging programs. But I've been a ham for 54 years and I've never entered a contest...Field Day doesn't count :)

Thanks and I hope to have fun at the fest and hopefully find a PowerSDR expert - well I won't get my hopes too high.

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Pete,

Fine business on building a HL2. Regarding PowerSDR band-specific power output settings, these are not an attenuation value but a cap. You may be able to lower the power output by lowering these values. The AD9866 provides 7.5dB of output range so to go below ~30dBm you will have to start reducing the signal amplitude sent to the HL2 and consequently the number of bits, which may not be ideal. The HL2 has a low power output mode that can provide 14 to 20 dBm output. If you don't want to mess with the signal amplitude sent to the HL2, you may be able to increase the low power output by lowering the value of R55. Or you can decrease the drive to the PA by increasing the value of R55.

CWX is something on my to do list. You can also hook up a k3ng keyer. You might also be interested in this fork although that does not implement CWX and is based on older gateware which will also not have some of the foot controls you are looking for.

Please file any issues found or enhancement requests on the github issues page. Detailed descriptions including videos or screen captures are helpful to understand issues.

https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/issues

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Don Solberg]

Pete,

MRP40 is not a contest application, it is a standalone CW decoder and CW keyboard. http://www.polar-electric.com/Morse/MRP40-EN/  It can use a variety of ways to key the xcvr, but for the fastest CW the author recommends using SSB. You can send CW up to 60 wpm. You would still have to key the PTT but there are several ways to do that. With other rigs I have used VOX I will experiment with it and let you know how it works.If VOX doesnt work well with PowerSDR, you can use an RS232 port. I don't do fast breakin, so keeping the PTT turned on all the time that I am sending works fine for me.

73,

Don

K9AQ

[Don Solberg]

Steve,

I have several Winkeyers on the shelf.  I was going to give on of them a try.  Is there a speed limitation internal to the HL2?

Don

K9AQ

[Matthew]

I don't have Windows/PowerSDR, so I'm not sure I follow the specifics of this thread. However, I use my HL2 with a winkeyer at 30 wpm, see https://groups.google.com/d/msg/hermes-lite/QEYSaA_GwVw/OE1c0Ss3AwAJ I'm sure there are windows equivalent versions of software to key a winkeyer from a keyboard (for a start I imagine this would work on Windows http://g4kno.com/software_it/jWinkeyServer/jWinkeyServer.html)

I key an external amp (HR50) using the PTT. No problem for dxing/contesting if you can cope with the relay chatter.

There are many topics regarding CW and SDRs. This is probably not a place to restart those. However, for fast CW speeds, I don't think audio CW into SSB is the way to go.

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Duncan Clark]

In message <5678165a-342f-43f1...@googlegroups.com>, Pete
Ferrand writes

>And a fourth issue. Even with the soundcard (Delta II) output level at
>minimum, and the Tx audio gain (on the Audio/VAC1 tab) at minimum, the
>VOX, if engaged, always keeps the rig keyed, with no audio input.

Have you tried setting DEXP (noisegate-like) to some higher value - I
use
-22 to stop any residual noise holding the VOX open. I use a UMC404HD
with my HL2 and PowerSDR. (404 'not 202 'cos I use channels 3 and 4 for
a Softrock panadaptor on another rig)

VOX has worked fine here this afternoon on SSB

With regards using the PTT/CW jack on the HL2 board. I found the
following some while back:

PTT works as expected with Quisk. HL2 and linear all to Tx and 400W out

SDR Console works as expected. HL2 and linear all to Tx and 400W out

Under Spark. HL2 itself goes to Tx (HL2 TX/Rx relay changes over and PTT
on linear changes to Tx) but Spark stays in Rx and PTT button does not
change in Spark.

Under PowerSDR 3.4.9. HL2 goes to Tx. Linear goes to Tx. MOX button
comes on in PowerSDR but no Tx out from PowerSDR.

Duncan
--
Duncan Clark
G4ELJ

[Pete Ferrand]

Don, thanks, yes I'm well aware of MRP40, it's been around for many years. I have no interest or ability at fast cw and no intention of ever using a keyboard whilst my physical faculties remain. Don't use break-in either.

ps, the hamfest was fine, crowded as usual, got an SMA connection for HL2 and that was it.

 

[Don Solberg]

I ran a test today using MRP40 and AFSK into PowerSDR with a virtual audio cable.  The CW keying was excellent at high speed. I ran it up to 40 wpm. I didn't look at it on the scope but I listened to on my Elecraft K3. I am still working through issues with PTT keying, but if I can't get the vox to work, I will use RS232 keying.

Don

K9AQ

[Don Solberg]

Duncan,

I thought I had VOX working with a sound card on PowerSDR but I had trouble with it today.  Even with the VOX threshold set all the way up, it was keying on normal breath sounds into my headset.  I will try experimenting with the DEXP.

Don

K9AQ 

On Saturday, January 4, 2020 at 11:58:43 AM UTC-6, Duncan Clark wrote:

In message <5678165a-342f-43f1-9a45-2d0669...@googlegroups.com>, Pete

[Pete Ferrand]

Don, no reason why ASFK shouldn't work well. I would need a different setup tho. I want to keep the cursor on Notepad, operate a mechanical key, and work semi break-in, not break-in. Exactly as tho I was operating a Swan 500 if I had one.

 

That would mean a hardware connection to something, perhaps to PowerSDR, and a connection from the computer to the HL2. I can't use MOX in PowerSDR without changing the focus away from Notepad, and in a QSO that is cumbersome beyond tolerance. 

Although 90% of my hamming is CW, in the 20 years since I passed the 20wpm test, I have never been able to have a QSO as fast as that, so high speed is not a concern. 

 

 

[Pete Ferrand]

Hi Steve, thanks for responding, and I will go to github with what I find. I'm using PowerSDR because I've used it since 2008 with the Flex and Softrocks, and like it. I understand that not everything can be implemented at once but when things don't work as expected and documented I tend to blame myself. Eventually it would be good if we can get it working as it does with other rigs. Hate giving you more projects.

I'm not familiar with the term "foot controls".

Thanks for the info on reducing power levels. In your PowerSDR video, when you get to the PA Gain tab under PA Settings you say to set everything to 38.8 and that if the number is increased it will reduce gain. It doesn't  with my setup.

The other point is that, in any voice mode, closing the key or the PTT will put the rig and PowerSDR into transmit. When the key and/or PTT are opened, both the HL2 and PowerSDR remain in transmit mode. Hitting the MOX button in PowerSDR restores receive. Putting the system in transmit with the MOX button works correctly. I don't think it's rf as it happens with 0 drive into a dummy load. I shall report this.

Again, thanks enormously for all your efforts with this wonderful project

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 10:26:01 PM UTC-6, Steve Haynal wrote:

[Don Solberg]

Pete,

I was able to get the VOX in PowerSDR working very well with sound card input, both a headset and from MRP40.  It just took some fooling around with the VOX threshold and the DEXP.

I connected the audio in and out from MRP40 to PowerSDR using a pair of virtual audio cables.  MRP40 keyed the HL2 very well with VOX handling the PTT.  

73,

Don

K9AQ

[Pete Ferrand]

Oh, great, congratulations. Yes, I think with careful operation I was able to get VOX to work.

Can you use a telegraph key to key MRP40?

Although I don't think I can justify 52 euros to send cw for a rag chew at 17 wpm.

 I've tried numerous ways of getting the PowerSDR PTT function to work, either thru the CAT screen or the DSP/CW screen, and it doesn't.

[Rudolf Unger]

Hi there. I need your help. I can't get a connection between rasperry pi and hermes lite 2.

Am Montag, 6. Januar 2020, 03:51:34 MEZ hat Pete Ferrand <wb2...@gmail.com> Folgendes geschrieben:

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[Don Solberg]

Pete,

Which PTT function can't you get to work: keying the HL2, or keying an external linear?

Don

K9AQ

[Don Solberg]

Pete,

I forgot to tell you that MRP40 does not support using an external telegraph key.

Don

K9AQ

[Pete Ferrand]

Thanks, but since I build and collect telegraph keys, if I can't use one I'm not going to operate.

The forks of PowerSDR I've used for years, particularly the original Flex version and PowerSDR-IQ make use of the RS-232 keying lines, RTS, DTR, CTS I think in particular. This mrX version still has it in the settings menu. It should be possible to put PowerSDR into transmit and key the HL2, via an RS-232 input from a key and a switch, and use the built-in keyer that PowerSDR has. That was the original design. PowerSDR should also be able to have an RS-232 output, as the older forks did, to key and put into transmit mode anything. These functions all appear on screen and in the settings menu of the mrX version, but don't seem to work.

[Matthew]

I didn't realise we were talking about straight keying. My lack of knowledge of PowerSDR must be masking something with regard to your problem.

I have used a straight key with the HL2 straight into the jack on the HL2 board, no RS232/PC etc. Is the concern solely with regard to wanting semi-breaking keying at around 18 wpm? What sort of delay is it you are looking for to achieve semi-break in?

73 Matthew M5EVT.

[Pete Ferrand]

Thanks for writing, Matthew, hope I can clear it up although I have a sense I'm being repetitive here. Understanding this is very simple - just read the last fifteen years of PowerSDR documentation and it will be obvious.

 

The UI to do with this simple operation hasn't changed, and the info is on the screens of the current mrX version. The issue is, is that apparently the current implementation on the HL2 doesn't work the way PowerSDR was designed, and I haven't found any documentation on what works and what doesn't. All other forks I've used implement what I'm concerned about.

 

The idea is that you connect a telegraph key of any description to PowerSDR via a serial port. PowerSDR has a built in memory keyer. When the key is depressed, that keyer puts the rig into transmit and activates its cw tone. As it's semi break-in, the rig stays in transmit for a settable time and generates a tone on subsequent key activations. The output of PowerSDR is a DTR or RTS line going high - this is supposed to be connected to the radio, but that's an implementation detail, but could be to the Ethernet port as well. As designed, one can use the same serial port to which to connect the key and the radio. All this has been written up many times and appears on many web pages.

 

Yes, connecting a key directly to the HL2 works but a) relays can't keep up with fast cw, b) relays click loudly, c) relays provide a form of break-in, not semi break-in, d) they're still not fast enough to hear activity between code elements, which is what break-in should be, e) PowerSDR flashes from receive to transmit annoyingly and pointlessly with each character element.

 

To answer your question, delay would vary from a second to maybe three seconds, not critical. As stated previously, I also would use CWX and other PowerSDR functions, but moving the focus from Notepad to PowerSDR is cumbersome. If PowerSDR would respond to a key input that would be avoided. I'm sure there are other programs and workarounds, but the reason we're having this conversation is primarily an issue of documentation.

 

Hope this is clear.

 

[Duncan Clark]

In message <a033df9d-a646-4174...@googlegroups.com>, Pete
Ferrand writes

> The issue is, is that apparently the current implementation on the HL2
>doesn't work the way PowerSDR was designed,

The FPGA code for HL2 is still work in progress and Steve has a day job.
Therefore it takes time to fix anomalies.

However the source code is on the github and there is nothing stopping
people helping Steve out.

[Pete Ferrand]

Duncan, that's perfectly understandable but if the documentation is wrong then I spend days as I have trying to get things working that can't possibly work. I'd love to help with the software but I haven't done a line of programming in 35 years as I really didn't like it and it would take forever to get going. I am planning to write up a "getting started" piece but sadly, this requires that I have a functioning system and that I've sussed out the various modes and it appears I'm a long way from that.

Pete

WB2QLL

On Tuesday, January 7, 2020 at 12:14:52 PM UTC-6, Duncan Clark wrote:

In message <a033df9d-a646-4174-a17e-f144a3...@googlegroups.com>, Pete

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Rudolf,

How are you trying to connect? Wired directly, or through a home router? The HL2 needs a DHCP server for the IP address. Either the RPi has to be the DHCP server or there has to be one on your network. Once you have access, you can set a fixed IP. See Raspberry Pi test program for an example:

https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/wiki/Raspberry-Pi-Test-and-Program

73,

Steve

kf7o

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[Steve Haynal]

Hi Pete,

Some comments on this thread:

** The 38.8 is a cap not an attenuation value. Did your try lowering it?

** There is a hang time that can be set for CW. This will reduce the relay chatter.

** Most of the documentation is on the wiki. A free github account is all that is needed to edit the wiki. Any help with updating and adding to the wiki is appreciated.

https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/wiki

Just to clarify expectations for you and others, I'm not trying to make an openhpsdr clone. The goal is to maintain core compatibility. The best documentation of compatibility is the protocol coverage which is implemented. The value of the HL2 is in the low cost, fully open source from tools to design files, and complete stand alone QRP HF DDC/DUC transceiver. It is intended for and most mature for digital modes where the HL2 is positioned remotely from the user. 

73,

Steve

kf7o