IO Board Confusion

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

Makerfabs has contacted me about IO board confusion and how to clean it up. I have been very much hands-off regarding the IO board and hope to continue with that. I am hoping those involved with the IO board can step in and help Makerfabs clear up the confusion.

The basic confusion is how does someone order a complete setup with IO board. Do they have to order a 55mm tall enclosure? Where will they find correctly sized front and back panels for either 40mm or 55mm tall enclosures? Do they have to modify the IO board to fit in a 40mm case by desoldering the connector and removing a spacer? The goal is to simplify the ordering process, and by far there are more 40mm tall enclosures sold over the years. 

My limited understanding is that the IO board does work for both 40mm and 55mm enclosures provided one desolders the connector and removes a spacer when desiring to use a 40mm enclosure. This can be difficult for many to do. It does not target the most most common case of more 40mm enclosures being sold. The soldered header is currently required for testing. 

Here are some options I see for Makerfabs:

1. Always target the 40mm case. Make sure Makerfabs has a proper end panel for the 40mm case (not the 55mm panel they currently include). Make sure they build and test the IO board with no spacer so that it fits in a 40mm case. The people wishing to target the less used 55mm case should be the ones having to do the work of de- and re-soldering.
2.  Makerfabs can target both enclosures. They would build version of the IO board for both enclosures and stock front/back panels for both sizes. People would specify what they want when ordering. The heat shim doesn't fit in the 55mm enclosure. This seems like a confusing addition of choices with little value for the 55mm case. Information on the 55mm enclosure is here.
3. Makerfabs could find a way to test the IO board without soldering on the connector. Users would solder on the connector for the enclosure height they want. Makerfabs would still have to provide a choice for front/back panel sizes. Unfortunately, many of the new HL2 users can't even solder a connector like this.

It looks like the IO board is gaining in popularity, but please let us clean up this confusion so that all buyers have a clear path for how to incorporate it.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Mike Lewis]

Do we know how many 55mm sizes were sold compared t the 40mm?  IF the number is low enough then is seem shifting the taks of desoldering the header to the 55mm user group would make sense, and keep Makerlab’s build and stocking simplest.   They would need to add in the extra spacer or more likely supply a different length header for each kit, the spacers are not likely available separately.

 

Another option: solder on a longer header without the added spacer and let the pins bottom out achieving the 55mm height.  Then 40mm users can snip off a few mm of each pin.   Not the prettiest but it will work.

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[Ronald Meier]

Steve, just ordered the IO board today for adding to an “older” HL2 and now I am confused as I was not aware of any sizing issues. The enclosure on the Makerfabs site are only available for 40mm. The IO board comes with 2 panels 40 and 55 as per MF site. After reading the github site the IO board fits into 40mm (or not?) and only 3 pin header to be added. 

I also have a HL2+ which is also 40mm so in my opinion we should stick to the old dimensions (also more 40mm are sold). Or make conversion kits available for those wanting to go from 40 to 55mm.

Btw what are the advantages for having 55mm besides cooling? Extra future features?

Happy new year and 73 Ronald PH7R

Op zaterdag 30 december 2023 om 19:49:54 UTC+1 schreef softerh...@gmail.com:

[Joshua]

The drawback I see with the 40mm case and IO board (which I'm using) is that the PURE SMA connector and EXTTR connector are very close to each other.  Both connectors will fit but the SMA connector has to be put on first and come off last.

I'm not sure longer headers would work since the IO board has the female connectors.  If the IO board had male connectors, extra long and clipping would be an okay solution.  Longer headers on the Hermes and filter board would work as they could then be clipped.  

I think assembly without the spacer and using the 40mm case is just fine.  I'm not sure what the market is for the 55mm case but I imagine it is smaller simply because MakerFab does not offer it in their "Recommendations" for the Hermes kit.

Joshua

[Mike Lewis]

Good point on the female vs male.  I had it reversed.

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[Mark Erbaugh]

As for a solution, I vote for having Makerfabs test the I/O board without the header and providing the header with two spacers unsoldered. Users with the 40mm case can remove the second spacer before soldering the header.

I have the 40mm case, but I noticed that the holes in the 55 mm end-plate did not line up with the bottom of the 40mm case. To me that implies that the spacing of the mounting rail is different between the 40 and 55mm cases. I've heard comments that the heat shim doesn't fit properly in the 55 mm case.

If the user is unable to solder the header, they would also be unable to solder the small header to the HL2 main board which is required to install the I/O board, so I don't think that should be an issue.

73,

Mark

[tmoto...@gmail.com]

Hi Steve –

I have done both versions of the mods, with all my new builds being in the 55mm case with the N2ADR I/O boards.

 

First I want to say I am amazed at the reliability of the HL2. The top one in the pic below has basically been powered up and left on for the better part of 3-4 years. Limited down time to moving things around on the desk, or adding in a Pure Signal connector.

I removed it from service – did a soak down power off test for a month, then turned it back on – worked like a champ!! No component failure, no intermittent, no part lift – worked perfect!! Its back in service as another station monitor.

 

My thoughts after building a number of these for myself and others…

Target the 40mm case – as this allows both camps to be served

• Have the target be the 40mm case with all new HL2’s coming with the header installed to support both of the N2ADR boards – the Filter Board and the  I/O board
• Build the I/O with no spacer to support the 40mm case
• If ordering the 40mm case, include the 40mm endplates and shim as currently provided.
• Would love to see a set of pins in the power interrupt lands cut, with a little 2 pin jumper installed.
• Hate taking the exacto knife to the beautiful HL2 board, to cut the power land. 2 pin header would be nice.

 

For the 55mm case folks – which I prefer over the 40mm case due to the Pure Signal and EXTTR connector being extremely close.

• Have a 55mm case option from Makerfabs.
• Include a header spacer to allow some increased spacing
• Include the proper height shim, as the 55mm cases I’ve been using require a shim closer to 1/8” or 3.6mm depending on the case selected
• Include the 55mm matching front endplate, with a 12mm hole for a switch
• Include the 55mm matching back endplate, with the I/O board connection on the back plates lifted to the match the header spacer.

 

About the 55mm endplates.

• Like having the extra room to mount a pushbutton on/off switch on the front is nice.
• Having the spacing between the PureSignal SMA and the EXTTR is welcome.
• Like having the room possible for what’s next…….

 

Here’s a pic with the 40mm and 55mm cases for comparison. My thanks to Ramon for sharing the gerbers, which I added the 12mm whole for the lighted power switch.

 

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Steve Haynal
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2023 1:50 PM
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: IO Board Confusion

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[Phil]

Steve,

I agree with having the 40mm as a standard and an option for the 55mm case, end plates and heat sink.

73,

Phil, KB3UUL

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[Jean-Baptiste GALLAUZIAUX]

It might probably better to have 40mm end plate cut by Makerfabs with the proper holes? If they do it in the future I shall order one because I'm not ready to wreck my currently perfectly working HL2 by attempting to desolder the header!

I wonder what happened to them: they started to sell green end plates, then they did not include the 3 pin header and in my kit I received 2 pieces of 10 pins each headers, not very consistent!

73 - Pierre - FK8IH

[Reid Campbell]

I'm not sure it is the multi pin connector that is the issue. All I have seen in posts is that the I/O board doesn't fit but no real explanation of what is wrong. There is mention that the multi pin connector sits up too high and removing spacers cured the problem. Mine sits high but it doesn't stop the top of the case going on.

I suspect that the issue is with the 9 pin D plug sitting to high, stopping the case coming down. I noticed on mine that the D connector is right at the bottom of the cut out. If it was install higher it would interfere with the top of the case.

I think we need to define the problem and then find the solution.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

[Mike Lewis]

The D sub fits fine if the board is level in the 40mm case.  Ther issue is that there are 2 plastic spacers on the IO board connector forcing the board to sit up high enough that the board must slope down to the back to fit under the cover and into the holes.   Removing 1 spacer puts it just right to sit level and the case and holes fit proper.  I do not have a 55mm case but what I gather here is that with the 2 spacers it sets level to fit the 55mm back panel well.

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Reid Campbell
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 3:26 AM
To: herme...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IO Board Confusion

 

I'm not sure it is the multi pin connector that is the issue. All I have seen in posts is that the I/O board doesn't fit but no real explanation of what is wrong. There is mention that the multi pin connector sits up too high and removing spacers cured the problem. Mine sits high but it doesn't stop the top of the case going on.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/8daf667b-613b-4efc-b22e-ce1990a8d874%40gmail.com.

[tmoto...@gmail.com]

Hi Folks –

I have built both – and the I/O spacer removal clears up the issue in the 40mm case. The as shipped 40mm back endplate aligns properly with the spacer removed

If you leave as currently shipped, the I/O board with the spacers, the top cover presses against the top of the DB9, and angles it down slightly when fitting the top cover.

Remove the spacer, which might be a challenge for some, alleviates the issue.

Spacing between the Pure Signal and EXTTR is extremely close in the 40mm case, but usable.

 

The 55mm case, with the I/O back endplate shipped, and those from the original gerbers fit properly with the I/O board and the current spacers.

The 55mm case does have a closer spacing to the bottom, so a 1/8” or close to 3.6mm shim is what I have find with the cases I’ve been buying from Amazon.

 

The whole 55mm case slot depth, shim and back endplate can all be adjusted once the case selected for a long term solution is made.

It all starts with the case…….

 

Tom – K2TC

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[Reid Campbell]

I have attached a couple of pictures of the I/O Board in my 40mm case. I would be interested in seeing the same from a case were the board didn't fit. Yes, my board has a slope but that was expected. Is this a tolerance issue?

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

[Mike Lewis]

Here is the IO board installed with 1 of the 2 spacers removed.  Perfectly level permitting the cover to go on and a bit more access between the pure and EXTTR connectors which is already tight.  Works either way though, just better when level.

[Stephen Seer Snively]

Reid, 

It appears you have both the 'spacer' and the header on your IO board. Can you confirm you didn't remove anything from what was shipped to you? Does it look like this image from the Makerfabs website? When did you purchase your I/O board? 

I guess the question is: Was there always a spacer or two? Did that change at some point? What function does it serve? 

I'd be happy to bend the board or pins slightly if it means I can use the 'factory' 40mm case and heat shim. I might have indirectly caused this thread when I asked the Makerfabs sales email if I would need to find a source for a 55mm front plate if I used the I/O board, or would it fit in the 40mm case, linking to a thread in this group about how it doesn't fit. I was just confused as to how I was going to make it work if I bought all three parts, but it didn't come with a 55mm front plate but seemed to require it for the I/O board to work without desoldering a large header, something I am able to handle at the moment. Nothing in the wonderful documentation mentions what to do, and the thread (as this one) suggests desoldering, so I asked the Sales email. They asked Steve. Pretty amazing customer service, but I'm sorry to put this on Steve.  

Might I take this opportunity to thank everyone who has worked on the documentation. It's amazing! Thank you, personally, from me, for everyone who has worked on it. I hope one day to contribute in kind. 

Thanks for your time and effort.

Seer Snively - KM6MWO

[Ron Lewkowicz]

The cases are not expensive. If obtaining a new 55mm case was required for a good fit to get the I/O board I would not have a problem buying a new case.  The issue at the moment is Makerfabs doesn't sell 55mm cases.  If they offered a 55mm case with heat shim to fit and end caps this would create a solution for all.  New buyers making a complete HL2 purchase with I/O board could get a kit where everything fits.  Old users wanting to add an I/O board just add the 55mm case to the order and pay a little extra but end up with a unit where everything fits better than trying to cram it in to the old case. While 40mm cases may be the majority of units out there it's hard to say how many will actually purchase an I/O board. 

[Jean-Baptiste GALLAUZIAUX]

If I understand well, the problem lies in the spacers shown in the green rectangle in the attached photo. I find it reassuring to know that if I decide to unsolder 50 solders I just risk to ruin the I/O Board, not the HL2 but I'm still afraid to unsolder.

73 - Pierre - FK8IH

[Clifford Heath]

If you do need to unsolder a header like this, you can do it with the PCB held firmly so you can apply the soldering iron to the joint, and use pliers to pull just that one pin out of both the board and the plastic header block.

Doing it one pin at a time means you can do it more safely and with less heat. The hot pin makes the plastic yield so it doesn’t hold the pin so hard.

Be careful not to flex the PCB. That can crack MLCC capacitors, which commonly fail short circuit.

Clifford Heath.

> On 1 Jan 2024, at 2:43 pm, Jean-Baptiste GALLAUZIAUX <jb.gall...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If I understand well, the problem lies in the spacers shown in the green rectangle in the attached photo. I find it reassuring to know that if I decide to unsolder 50 solders I just risk to ruin the I/O Board, not the HL2 but I'm still afraid to unsolder.

> 73 - Pierre - FK8IH<IOBoard_spacers.jpg>

[tmoto...@gmail.com]

Hi All –

Ive done twice the single spacer removals on the I/O boards, a bit tedious but fairly simple with the right soldering iron, wick and solder sucker.

The detail below is the exactly the issue. Remove 1 spacer and then it fits the 40mm fine.

Given unsoldering the I/O header, or trimming a new shim – shim to me is easier.

 

Doing the 55mm case is straight forward. You get the back endplate with the I/O Board kit.

I brought a 4ft length of 1”wide 1/8” aluminum flat, and have been grinding off 1/4” slices for the shim.

Case on Amazon is $17.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KYFS9S7?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

 

 

I ordered a bunch of Front Enplates with my call sign on them and the 12mm hole for the power switch– basically 10 for like $15 plus shipping.

I ordered them from JLCPCB – fast and great quality.

Ramon was nice enough to share the gerbers, and these match the initial cads from the Hermes builds for the 55mm cases

 

I like these as the wire has a mating connector that presses onto the back of the switch body – so its easy to separate and pull it off the switch.

Lighted switch qty 6 is like $18

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P4HKCVX?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

 

 

Happy New Years!!!

 

Tom – K2TC

 

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Jean-Baptiste GALLAUZIAUX
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 10:44 PM
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: IO Board Confusion

 

If I understand well, the problem lies in the spacers shown in the green rectangle in the attached photo. I find it reassuring to know that if I decide to unsolder 50 solders I just risk to ruin the I/O Board, not the HL2 but I'm still afraid to unsolder.

73 - Pierre - FK8IH

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/bfdfcbd1-24a6-4d45-ad16-fe001b7b3b21n%40googlegroups.com.

[Phil]

Can you include a like to the gerber file please.

73,

Phil, KB3UUL

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/017b01da3c6c%240d822b20%2428868160%24%40gmail.com.

[tmoto...@gmail.com]

Hi Phil –

Here is the front 55mm endplate file set that I have been using with the 12mm hole.

This Ramon had shared, and it matches back to the original 55mm case. I just moved some of the vents and added the 12mm hole.

 

Download KiCad 7.0 and you can edit the file.

If you hover on the SDR, right click to Properties and your can edit the SDR to your callsign if you prefer – or leave it empty.

 

I been ordering the 2 layer boards in black , and removing the order number option so its not printed on the endplate.

The 2 layer references the 2^nd layer which is the inside facing part of the front endplate will also be plated.

 

This is just the front endplate, as the rear 55mm endplate comes with the I/O kit already…

 

I’ve had good luck and quick turn around times from the folks at JLCPCB.com

 

Hopefully this helps…..

 

Tom – K2TC

 

 

[Phil]

Great, thank you.

Phil, KB3UUL

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Stephen,

On 31/12/2023 19:09, Stephen Seer Snively wrote:

Reid, 

It appears you have both the 'spacer' and the header on your IO board. Can you confirm you didn't remove anything from what was shipped to you? Does it look like this image from the Makerfabs website? When did you purchase your I/O board?

I have two I/O Boards, the first was one of the 10 development builds. The second I got from Makerfabs when they changed over to supplying black end plates. The "Production" one is the one shown in the pictures posted earlier.

I gueass the question is: Was there always a spacer or two? Did that change at some point? What function does it serve?

There is a spacer on both my builds, in fact it looks like 2 spacers. I don't think it has ever changed.

I don't think that Makerfabs ever supplied a 55mm case and the first run of HL2s was the main board, filter board and two 55mm end plates for your own supplied 55mm case. When they started to supply the 40mm case, they produced 40mm end plates for it.

In the development of the I/O Board, there was a concern that it wouldn't fit the 40mm case and somebody produced 55mm end plates. This is maybe where Makerfabs took the dimensioning from. After I got my development board, I could determine if it would fit the 40mm case. Even though there was a bit of a slope on the board, it wasn't going to be an issue and somebody designed a 40mm end plate using dimensions taken from my development setup. Everything was a bit tight but I did check that the SMA connectors and the PTT phone plug could co-exist.

So this is why I'm asking the question, does the case not go together, what is stopping it going together or what other issues are there. We always knew it was tight. I'm concerned that people believe that they have to take a soldering iron and butcher a perfectly good board to make it work.

At this point I believe that the current solution works as nobody has posted any pictures of the case or connectors not going on. It might not be pretty but lets get to the facts as I think there is a lot of misunderstand of the issue.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Reid Campbell]

Hi Pierre,

You believe you have a problem putting you I/O Board together? Can you attempt assemble it and post pictures of where things are fouling?

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/bfdfcbd1-24a6-4d45-ad16-fe001b7b3b21n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jan PA3JRK]

As I mentioned before, I would opt for an IO board without a soldered pinheader. A user can then deside to use a header with a single spacer for a 40mm case or a header with a double spacer for a 55mm case or even choose a custom header with an different height. Imo Makerfabs can test the board by using pogo pin headers.

Soldering a pinheader is easy, but desoldering a header without the right tools and/or skills can be quite difficult with a chance of damaging the pcb.

 

73 and HNY, Jan PA3JRK

Op zaterdag 30 december 2023 om 19:49:54 UTC+1 schreef softerh...@gmail.com:

Hi Group,

[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Group,

Perhaps some history would help.  I don't own a 40 mm case. I chose the extra-height 2x25 connector to provide clearance between EXTTR and the SMA J10. These 2x25 connectors come in a variety of heights. I did not design either end plate, they were contributed. It was known that the IO board would slope down a few millimeters in the 40 mm case with the higher connector, but I thought that would not be a problem. Perhaps I was wrong.

I do not understand why some want to unsolder and shorten the 2x25 connector for the 40 mm case. I know it slopes down, but doesn't it work anyway? What is the problem exactly? Would it work better with a different 40 mm end plate?

We can not ship the IO board without a soldered 2x25 connector. The connector is needed for the test fixture that MakerFabs uses to test the board.

I do see the need to cater to the 40 mm case. I suggest we change the 2x25 connector to a shorter part that fits. It would work with the 55 mm case too, but the end plates would have to be changed for the shorter height. This would put EXTTR uncomfortably close to the SMA, but I provided part numbers and photos of narrow phono plugs before. Or the user could unsolder the phono jack on the HL2 and run EXTTR to the DB9. This is equivalent to Steve's solution 1, but without unsoldering the connector for the 55 mm case.

I someone could suggest a shorter 2x25 connector and re-design the end plates I would be happy to send the changes to MakerFabs. I was hoping I would not have to order the parts and do this myself.

Jim

N2ADR

[Colin Larsen]

I find the biggest issue with the 40mm case is that the connectors on the back panel are too close, it's terrible spacing as you and other posters have pointed out. Also that angle that the board ends up on just looks like poor design I'm sorry. 

Special slim plugs are a pain in the ass quite frankly, I'm sure we all just want to use what we have, normal plugs.

I'm going to grab a second unit and 55mm case now before any decisions are made that require special connectors.

It was super simple to change to the 55mm case.

My 2 cents worth

73 and HNY

Colin

ZL2FL 

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[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

Here is a picture of what some people are doing to make the IO board fit into the 40mm enclosure:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/5483272138380247/permalink/24680489354898571/

I suspect the tilted IO board doesn't always fit, or some people really don't like the tilt.

I estimate that there are about 10 40mm enclosures out in the field for every 1 55mm enclosure. We are at over 2000 units in the field now.

After reading all the posts, I propose two changes for Makerfabs:

Change 1:  Makerfabs builds and offers the IO board in 40mm and 55mm configuration. The 40mm configuration has one spacer removed as seen in this picture:

https://groups.google.com/g/hermes-lite/c/inUplyUcmHg/m/jmvSpAn7AwAJ

The connector is still soldered in both cases so Makerfabs can test. Makerfabs has both front and back end plates for the 40mm solution. Makerfabs would have to add an option to the order page to select between 40mm or 55mm IO board.

Change 2:  Makerfabs starts offering a 55mm enclosure option. The 55mm enclosures are documented here:

https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/wiki/Enclosure-and-PA-Heatsink

but Makerfabs may choose to start making their own enclosure like they did for the 40mm enclosure. Makerfabs has a back end plate, but not the front end plate for the 55mm enclosure. The front endplate design is here:

https://github.com/softerhardware/Hermes-Lite2/tree/master/hardware/enclosure/endcaps/kf7o/hl2_55f/hl2_55f_h

Makerfabs should make these in black and the same thickness as other end plates. Again, Makerfabs would have to add an option to their ordering page for choice in enclosure.

I also think that for both 40mm and 55mm enclosure options, the end plate which supports the IO board should be the default. I assume it will work even if someone does not want the IO board? This way we reduce the number of back end plates Makerfabs has to deal with.

I think this addresses all the confusion and concerns I've seen, but it does add extra choices which can also be confusing for customers and harder to always fulfill correctly by Makerfabs. I think Jim N2ADR and Reid should make the final call as they have been the most involved with the IO board. If you want to go with the two changes I outline above, I think sending a link of this post to Makerfabs should be sufficient.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Colin Larsen]

I support this idea 100%

Cheers

Colin

ZL2FL

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[Stephen Seer Snively]

I am an outsider, just buying into the Hermes community now, but I have spend the last month reading and searching this forum and have a little bit of history in manufacturing.

It appears that the most simple overall solution would be to research and source a 55mm case and 'retire' the 40mm case and end plates. Have new sales all be 55mm after a similar case is sourced. They can adjust the shim if needed to match the new case, and only deal with a single 'go forward' set of SKUs, and they can keep existing stock for future requests. 

There are several people in the forums discussing how the 40mm case is tight, how the I/O board bends when in it, and how the PureSignal connection is tight. Moving to the 55mm case by default not only solves all of that, but keeps Makerfab with a single product set going forward.  They also don't need to make any changes to any of the boards, just swap out the case, end plates, and newly fitted heat shim. Also, there might be so documentation to update after the change gets made.

This also gives the added benefit of extra street cred to anyone with an 'old school' 40mm case, proof of how you were one of the cool kids before it became so popular. Now I'll get off your radials. :-)

Seer Snively - KM6MWO

[tmoto...@gmail.com]

Hi Steve –

I think you are right on track with your plans, and fully agree.

 

Removing one of the I/O spacers solves the 40mm case issue. Should include the 40mm endplates only with the 40mm case, as well as the current shim.

 

For the 55mm I/O, we know the 2 spacer I/O aligns fine – but could change if the slot spacing changes depending on whether Makerfabs want to spin their own case, or work off the endplates in the github folder.

The case I’ve been buying is roughly 3.6mm spacing – and the rear plate supplied with the I/O board currently aligns fine – as does the front. So I assume that the original plans utilized a 55mm case with slot clearance of roughly 1/8” or 3.6mm. This would require the shorter shim to be included or sourced elsewhere.

My hand cut shim come off a 1/8” thick 1” wide piece of aluminum flat stock from Home Depot. I cut off a roughly 1/4 inch wide slice and file where needed.

 

Safe to assume that the 40mm vs 55mm counts are purely due to only having the 40mm case available from Makerfabs, and the fact that the I/O is only recently introduced.

 

Happy New Years!

 

Tom  -  K2TC

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Steve Haynal
Sent: Monday, January 1, 2024 4:56 PM
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: IO Board Confusion

 

Hi Group,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/bbbab491-35c1-4f6c-9c03-999d49a72b9fn%40googlegroups.com.

[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Group,

I agree with Steve's proposal and will ask MakerFabs if they can do it. But first I have questions for the group. I don't have a 40 mm enclosure, and I don't have an end plate for my 55 mm enclosure. I can't ask MakerFabs to make changes, and then ask for more changes next month.

1. Does the end plate for the 40 mm enclosure fit reasonably well, or do we need to make changes?

2. Does the end plate for the 55 mm enclosure fit reasonably well, or do we need to make changes?

Jim

N2ADR

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Steve and group, HNY,

On 01/01/2024 21:56, Steve Haynal wrote:

Hi Group,

Here is a picture of what some people are doing to make the IO board fit into the 40mm enclosure:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/5483272138380247/permalink/24680489354898571/

If you read the description, he was using the 55mm back end plate cut down for the 40mm case. The 9 pin D is slightly higher on the 55m back panel hence the cutting into the case.

So far nobody has provided evidence of the current I/O Board not fitting. We know that the fitment is tight but it works and this was a design decision make back in June/July. The PCB could have been spun again but Jim had already gone through that because of unavailability of one of the IC package types. He couldn't be expected to do it again and delay the project.

I suspect the tilted IO board doesn't always fit, or some people really don't like the tilt.

I suspect you are correct that some people don't like the tilt. That has spread as the I/O Board doesn't fit and how could Makerfabs let this happen. I occasional look at Facebook pages and have seen a comments about the I/O not fitting but nobody has gone into the details. They just show their solution of removing the connector. If I'm wrong, please show me why it's not fitting so we can have a full solution.

If folks didn't like the 40mm solution, end plates were provided for the 55mm case, so it was up to the user to source their own 55mm case.

My simple solution would be to remove one of the spacers and leave it at that. The 40mm will tilt down a little and the 55mm will tilt up a little. By creating product 2 SKUs, we open Makerfabs up to wrong ordering and ultimately a higher cost.

By the way, I like the form factor of the 40mm case, as it fits in my laptop bag when travelling.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Max]

The original kits were in fact shipped with end plates for a 55mm case although the case needed sourcing separately. The 40mm case option was added later when Makerfabs started supplying their own case. So in fact many people are "coming back" to the 55mm case now that the IO board is an easier fit.

Max

[ron.ni...@gmail.com]

The earliest HL2v9's came with only 55 mm end plates.  So those, currently, are the "cool ones" (as I have one of those :).  However, for skimming, and for portable ops, I prefer the smaller 40 mm case, as that is the lighter and shorter stacking unit (I have more than one of those), and the extra ports on the back are most often unneeded. So I think the best option would be to offer both case sizes.

If fact, for portable ops (SOTA), my wish list would be for some way to put together an even slimmer and lighter enclosure for the HL2.

73, Ron, n6ywu

[KP4RX - Ramon]

I can talk about my own experience with 2 I/O Boards. As Reid stated, I didn't liked the tilted position on the I/O Board on the 40MM Case. while I have the abbility to remove the offending spacer from the header, I decided to move to a 55MM Case and use that opportunity to customize my HL2 a little with custom front and backplates. I can tell  for sure there is no electrical or functional Issue with the I/O Board on the 40MM case, it's just a matter of "looks"when the unit has no cover on it, looking at it from the back panel someone who hasn't seen it open won't even notice the tilting. As other members sated the EXTTR RCA is close to the pure signal SMA but I didn't had any issues using both ports simultaneously. In the end, this is an open source project which requires some DIY and modding, It's a good opportunity for the end user to learn to fix some "issues" or things that they don't like (like a tilted board which was driving me nuts). I agree with Reid that maybe the fix to all of the confusion would be removing the spacer from the pin header from manufacture. In that case I think it will line up perfectly on the 40mm and just tilt a bit up on the 55mm (unless the 55mm plate is adjusted to the same positions as the 40mm). Creating multiple SKUs may add more confusion to the not-so "technically abled" users and also increase Makerfabs' overhead that could incidentally raise the price of the final product. While most of the community would love to have a Plug-and-play solution, having a "one size fits all" solution could put the project at a price level of commercial solutions.

73 de KP4RX

[Max]

FWIW my opinion:

Yes, offer the 55mm case from Makerfabs as the recommended case for those that wish a "perfect" option. Yes, offer as standard only the end plates that accommodate the IO board in 40mm and 55mm options. No need for the regular (no IO Board" back plate.

If people want perfect fit for IO Board they use the 55mm case. If they want slimmer 40mm case they accept compromise of sloping board (which anyway cannot be detected once assembled) or they have all the info in the Wiki to make it right if they wish to do a little modding to take out the spacer.

That's minimum hassle for Makerfabs hence keeps the price unchanged. 

Other (even simpler and actually possibly better) alternative. Remove the spacer on all future IO boards and change the 55mm rear endplate to match the 40mm case socket spacings. Actually this might be the easiest option all round going forward?

I think producing two version of IO board just adds more confusion and also complication for Makerfabs.

73

Max

[Mark Erbaugh]

While the 2 spacers will fit in the 40mm case, the tilt makes the PURE signal input closer to the EXTTR jack which is tight already. Also the case end plate doesn't completely close.

Mark

[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Group,

I measured the spacer we are proposing to remove. It is 2.6 mm high. So we are fussing about 2.6 mm tilt in a span of 5 cm. Maybe this is getting a bit out of control.

A simple solution is to make all future IO boards with the spacer removed until the stock of the current 2x25 headers is exhausted. Then order a shorter 2x25 going forward. If I understand correctly, the IO board now fits as well as possible in the 40 mm case. And there are ten times more 40 mm cases than 55 mm cases. So there is only one ordering option for the IO board. Simple.

With the current 55 mm end plate, the IO board will tilt up a little bit and this will give a little more space between the RCA and SMA connectors. Or, in the future, a different 55 mm end plate can be made with lowered holes.

What do you think?

Jim

N2ADR

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Jim,

On 04/01/2024 17:19, James Ahlstrom wrote:

Hello Group,

I measured the spacer we are proposing to remove. It is 2.6 mm high. So we are fussing about 2.6 mm tilt in a span of 5 cm. Maybe this is getting a bit out of control.

A simple solution is to make all future IO boards with the spacer removed until the stock of the current 2x25 headers is exhausted. Then order a shorter 2x25 going forward. If I understand correctly, the IO board now fits as well as possible in the 40 mm case. And there are ten times more 40 mm cases than 55 mm cases. So there is only one ordering option for the IO board. Simple.

I think the current header looks like it has 2 spacers, so you are suggesting removing one? I think that would create a suitable solution going forward for both the 40 & 55mm cases, no need for a new connector.

With the current 55 mm end plate, the IO board will tilt up a little bit and this will give a little more space between the RCA and SMA connectors. Or, in the future, a different 55 mm end plate can be made with lowered holes.

One of the reasons for folks going with the 55mm case it to get the better separation, so I think the end plates should be left alone. If the tilt bothers anyone, they can lift the connector slightly as the pin length should accommodate a couple of millimetres.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/85b0ac2c-1f97-4e95-92f6-1f69ec5a84dcn%40googlegroups.com.

[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Reid and Group,

Yes, I propose removing one spacer. And I agree with all your thinking here. To make sure, I ordered a complete HL2 with all boards from MakerFabs so I can be sure of the solution.

Jim

N2ADR

[Darryl - N0DP]

Tom,

I can't get the project file to open in KiCad. Program is  looking for a .pro file and not _prl file.  Gerber viewer works fine, just can't edit.

Darryl

N0DP

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Jim,

Removing one spacer for both 55mm and 40mm sounds like a reasonable solution to me. Also, thanks for ordering and checking that what comes from Makerfabs is as expected. Maybe some documentation regarding the 40mm versus 55mm differences will help, although no matter how much one documents it seems like the same questions keep coming up over and over again in this and other groups. Is this the main link for the HL2 IO Board documentation?

https://github.com/jimahlstrom/HL2IOBoard

If so, I will add some links to various places.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Tony Gross]

It will fit in the 40mm enclosure.

On Sat, Dec 30, 2023, 12:49 PM Steve Haynal <softerh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Group,

Makerfabs has contacted me about IO board confusion and how to clean it up. I have been very much hands-off regarding the IO board and hope to continue with that. I am hoping those involved with the IO board can step in and help Makerfabs clear up the confusion.

The basic confusion is how does someone order a complete setup with IO board. Do they have to order a 55mm tall enclosure? Where will they find correctly sized front and back panels for either 40mm or 55mm tall enclosures? Do they have to modify the IO board to fit in a 40mm case by desoldering the connector and removing a spacer? The goal is to simplify the ordering process, and by far there are more 40mm tall enclosures sold over the years. 

My limited understanding is that the IO board does work for both 40mm and 55mm enclosures provided one desolders the connector and removes a spacer when desiring to use a 40mm enclosure. This can be difficult for many to do. It does not target the most most common case of more 40mm enclosures being sold. The soldered header is currently required for testing. 

Here are some options I see for Makerfabs:

1. Always target the 40mm case. Make sure Makerfabs has a proper end panel for the 40mm case (not the 55mm panel they currently include). Make sure they build and test the IO board with no spacer so that it fits in a 40mm case. The people wishing to target the less used 55mm case should be the ones having to do the work of de- and re-soldering.
2.  Makerfabs can target both enclosures. They would build version of the IO board for both enclosures and stock front/back panels for both sizes. People would specify what they want when ordering. The heat shim doesn't fit in the 55mm enclosure. This seems like a confusing addition of choices with little value for the 55mm case. Information on the 55mm enclosure is here.
3. Makerfabs could find a way to test the IO board without soldering on the connector. Users would solder on the connector for the enclosure height they want. Makerfabs would still have to provide a choice for front/back panel sizes. Unfortunately, many of the new HL2 users can't even solder a connector like this.

It looks like the IO board is gaining in popularity, but please let us clean up this confusion so that all buyers have a clear path for how to incorporate it.

73,

Steve

kf7o

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[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Group,

The confusion regarding the IO board is confusing me too. So I ordered a complete HL2 and a 40 mm case from Makerfabs so I can look at it myself. The HL2 is out of stock until the end of January.

Jim

N2ADR

[Ed Stroh]

Hi all,

I'm a little confused as to the current state of the confusion... :)

Has Makerfabs made the necessary changes to what they're selling to accommodate Steve's proposed solutions or is that still to come?

I'm ready to pull the trigger on an I/O board because I'm fed up with weird behaviors from the HL2+ addon for controlling the HR-50+. Quite eager to get one installed but I'm not sure I'm totally clear on what I'll need to do, if anything, to get the I/O board to fit in the standard 40mm case I currently have. It seems the problem is an additional spacer on the I/O board's pins but I'm not sure if fixing that is as simple as popping it off or if it involves desoldering. Can someone please clarify? 

Thanks and 73,

Ed KS7ROH

[Ryan Jennings]

I assembled one a few weeks ago.  It is at a bit of a slant but it goes together fine and isn't an issue after its all closed up.

N0DR

Ryan

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[tmoto...@gmail.com]

Hi Ed –

Current I/O ( has a spacer – header is soldered in ) board in the 40mm case will fit, just tilts down a little as the top of the case presses against the top of the DB9 connector. Totally functional.

Spacing between the EXTTR and PureSignal SMA are close – but you can use both no problem – just tight… spin on the SMA first, then plug in the RCA is the easier method if you have big fingers.

Rear endplate is included with the I/O board for both the 40mm and 55mm cases currently.

 

If you are handy – you can unsolder the header on the I/O board, and remove the spacer, then solder the head back in if you want to keep it level.

There is no need to do this – more aesthetics.

 

I myself like the 55mm case, cause I like to add a power switch up front, and can picture the extra room being used for other options.

My new builds have been in the 55mm case, re-casing my 40mm builds as I move them around and go back to add the I/O boards.

Again – no need to do the 55mm case, just preference.

 

All personal preference at this point – but no operational issue putting the current I/O board in the 40mm case.

 

Tom – K2TC

 

 

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ryan Jennings
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 10:51 PM
To: Ed Stroh <stro...@gmail.com>
Cc: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: IO Board Confusion

 

I assembled one a few weeks ago.  It is at a bit of a slant but it goes together fine and isn't an issue after its all closed up.

 

N0DR

Ryan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/CAGgC2Jgsn2dmnb1hVy5Hsh5SDjHxOXWLdvP9o1v1qaCZOHxQYQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Ed,

I've been told it fits but at a slant. I haven't built one yet. Some people don't like the slant. Some people are confused during assembly and end up doing exotic things to deal with the slant. 

Jim N2ADR (the maker of this IO board) is working with Makerfabs to evaluate the situation and make it less confusing going forward. I think the latest idea is to remove a spacer so that there is just a little bit of slant for either 40mm or 55mm enclosures. I think he is waiting for parts to arrive to do his evaluation. Makerfabs has not made any changes yet.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Group,

I am on a ski trip for two weeks. The HL2 in a 40mm enclosure has arrived along with some other parts. When I get back I will see what needs to be done with the IO board.

Jim

N2ADR

[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Group,

I am back from skiing and I assembled my new HL2 in its 40 mm enclosure. I now have two IO boards, one with the original 13.59 mm insulation height and one with a new header with 11.05 mm insulation height. The taller header slopes downward in the 40 mm enclosure as people have noted. The shorter header is a much better fit. The shorter header slopes upward in the 55 mm enclosure as expected.

The difference in insulation height is 2.54 mm and the distance from front to back is 5 cm.  Although the slope is noticeable it doesn't affect operation. Either header will work in either enclosure. In the 40 mm enclosure the EXTTR phono connector is quite close to the PURE SMA. I was surprised to find that if I connect the SMA first there is still room for the insulated phono plug I tried. A fatter phono plug might not fit but I could file a flat onto it and make it work.

A user could change their IO board to a different header if they can figure out how to unsolder the one they have. A heated solder sucker seems to be necessary. Hot air would require a rectangular housing the size of the 2x50 header. I know people have done this, so how did you do it?

So what should we do? I am inclined to have Makerfabs change to the shorter header ESW-125-12-G-D because the 40 mm enclosure is the one they sell and it is more common.

Any thoughts?

Jim

N2ADR

[Mark Erbaugh]

My vote is to supply the board with the header unattached and with both spacers. That way the user can choose the spacer(s) they want. Users already have to solder the three pin header on the main board, so making them solder the header on the I/O board shouldn't be a problem.

Mark

[Mike Lewis]

I second the motion to supply 2 headers unsoldered.  A test mainboard using pogo pins might be needed at MakerFabs.

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mark Erbaugh
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2024 11:57 AM
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: IO Board Confusion

 

My vote is to supply the board with the header unattached and with both spacers. That way the user can choose the spacer(s) they want. Users already have to solder the three pin header on the main board, so making them solder the header on the I/O board shouldn't be a problem.

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[Ryan Jennings]

Could a small spacer be used with a header that has longer pins.  That would give  some flexibility in how far the mating connector was pressed into place.

Ryan

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[Brian McCarthy]

As a very new HL2 user, I would have preferred the header not attached. I was horribly dismayed by the poor fitment of the current IOBoard to the 40mm case and endplate. While it fits, the endplate deforms and will not attach cleanly.

In the end, I chose to give up on 40mm and have the 55mm case and the HL2+ kit with 55mm front on the way. It means I'll have a set of 40mm hardware surplus to my needs. I would advocate having the choices highlighted and an easier path to either 40mm or 55mm without as much waste.

Brian

NX9O

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[James Ahlstrom]

An unattached header is not an option. I sent a test jig to Makerfabs at their request. The test jig requires the header be soldered down. The header supplies electrical connections and also physical alignment for the pogo pins. Makerfabs tests all IO boards before shipment.

Jim

N2ADR

[Jim Ancona]

I think your (N2ADR's) solution is the right one. If someone orders a complete HL2 from Makerfabs, everything fits as expected. If they go with a 55mm enclosure, they get a slight slope. 

One other thought: Is it possible for 55mm enclosure owners to just not push the IO Board all the way down on the header, or could they put a spacer over the top of the header pins to act as a shim? Or does that risk compromising the connection between the boards?

Jim

N1ADJ 

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[Jean-Baptiste GALLAUZIAUX]

If Makerfabs sells the ioBoard with modified 40mm back plates, will it be possible to order just one such modified 40mm plate? In which case I would order one, just to complete a clean installation of the ioBoard I already owns but have not installed in my 40mm enclosure due to the existing problem.

73 - Pierre - FK8IH

[James Ahlstrom]

The back plate is not the problem. To fit the 40 mm enclosure you need to unsolder the existing 2x25 header and replace it with ESW-125-12-G-D.

Has anyone unsoldered the 2x25 header, and if so, how?

Jim

N2ADR

[James Ahlstrom]

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 3:58:40 PM UTC-5 Jim Ancona N1ADJ wrote:

One other thought: Is it possible for 55mm enclosure owners to just not push the IO Board all the way down on the header, or could they put a spacer over the top of the header pins to act as a shim? Or does that risk compromising the connection between the boards?

Yes, that is possible. But I too would worry about a bad connection as the DB9 connector is flexed. But some slope could be removed.

An alternative is to lower the holes on the 55 mm backplate to the same location as the 40 mm backplate. Then the fit is good, but the EXTTR phono is close to the PURE SMA. Having a space between them was the point of the higher 2x25.

Jim

N2ADR 

[Mike Lewis]

I use a vacuum desoldering gun.  Works pretty easy, usually get 1 or 3 pins that stay stuck. Resolder and then desolder again, wiggling the header also helps.  Done both HL2s and too many other headers over the year this way.

 

 

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of James Ahlstrom
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2024 6:28 PM
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: IO Board Confusion

 

The back plate is not the problem. To fit the 40 mm enclosure you need to unsolder the existing 2x25 header and replace it with ESW-125-12-G-D.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/9fd8e923-8971-409c-9039-832f893d2c70n%40googlegroups.com.

[Mark Erbaugh]

The test lab at the Dayton Amateur Radio Association has a vacuum desolderer, but it wasn’t working well. I got some of the solder out with it, but I finally got the header free by repeatedly heating individual pins and wiggling the header. Despite all that, I was able to remove one of the  two spacers and reinstall. It fits nicely in the 40mm case, and the unused spacer is still in tact.

Mark

[tmoto...@gmail.com]

Hi Jim –

I unsoldered 2 of the I/O boards headers with a vacuum type solder sucker iron. Not hard with the right tools but a little tedious. Then soldered back in the shortened header.

 

More recently, and the new builds - I’ve been using the 55mm case which it fits fine. Find it easier to deal making the shorter shim.

Caveat – I just happen to like the 55mm case better for extras and the switch I add.

 

Tom – K2TC

 

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of James Ahlstrom
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2024 9:28 PM
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: IO Board Confusion

 

The back plate is not the problem. To fit the 40 mm enclosure you need to unsolder the existing 2x25 header and replace it with ESW-125-12-G-D.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/9fd8e923-8971-409c-9039-832f893d2c70n%40googlegroups.com.

[James Ahlstrom]

I plan to ask Makerfabs to switch to the shorter header. They sell only the 40 mm case and so everything should fit. Any objections?

Jim

N2ADR

[ron.ni...@gmail.com]

If/When Makerfabs offers an IO board that better fits the 40 mm case, I'll probably order one, instead of trying to desolder the header on one of the IO boards that I already have. 73, Ron, n6ywu

[Jean-Baptiste GALLAUZIAUX]

It might be less expensive to offer a back plate cut to the good dimensions (40mm enclosure) of the IOboard I have bought a few months ago. If Makerfabs sells such a back plate I'll buy one.

73 - Pierre - FK8IH

[James Ahlstrom]

Makerfabs has informed me that from now on all IO boards will ship with the shorter J1 and will fit the 40mm enclosure without a slope. The board will also fit the 55mm enclosure with a slight upward slope. Makerfabs sells the 40mm enclosure as standard and so the 40mm IO board is standard too.

Jim

N2ADR

[Jean-Baptiste GALLAUZIAUX]

Jim, these are good news. I asked today to Makerfabs if they can send to me this modified 40mm back plate in order that I can properly install my I/O Board kit in my 40mm enclosure.

73 - Pierre - FK8IH

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Pierre,

The back plate has not changed, only the J1 connector is slightly shorter. If you can't stand the slight slope you will have to order a new I/O Board or request the new J1 connector and de-solder the old one. You can remove the old J1 connector and remove a spacer and that will do the same job.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Jean-Baptiste GALLAUZIAUX]

I got this answer from Makersfab: 

Dear

As the designer's design,  recently we updated this product. For previous orders, sorry we can not provide replacement.  you can make another order. 

Thanks for your understanding. 

Sales: Vivi