What am I giving up for not using Windows software with Hermes Light 2?

[Lukasz Olszewski]

I'm.a long term Linux user and I'm not a big fan of windows (I use it at work daily). Upon hearing that PowerSDR and Thetis are both open source I just assumed both would have Linux versions. Only once I bought HL2 and wanted to install the software I found out that nope, they don't work on Linux.

Furthermore , Thetis can be "sort of" run using wine, but the waterfall/scope/signal view doesn't work. That's makes it completely unusable.

I bought HL2 mainly for its Puresignal feature and if this was the only software that could do it, it would've been on its way back to China by now.

But there is Linux software that can do Puresignal. Linhpsdr and pihpsdr. So there is hope.

But I wonder, are there any other useful features I'm giving up on by using only Linux software with HL2? I've been looking and looking but there is not a list of features supported by PowerSDR nor by Thetis.

So if you're a person that went down this path... What is missing? Also, I'm a software developer by trade so if the software is open source, how hard can it be to make a Linux port? If the difference is huge Iight think about doing that.

Let me know please .

73,

Łukasz

[brhl...@gmail.com]

You should use pihpsdr by DL1YCF and everything is fine.

[Heath Petty]

The creator of the HL2 (Steve) primarily uses Linux, and until work was done to add features to thetis to support the HL2, Linux was kind of the preferred OS to use with the HL2 (as far as I have read). I only use Linux, and the applications that support the HL2 support all the features that thetis has. I primarily use quisk, its not as pretty as thetis, but its power, fairly light weight and is reliable. It supports the wdsp library so for SSB you have the great NR2 filter. Its dead easy to use quisk with various digital mode applications (quisk automatically creates pulse loop back devices and provides a hamlib network interface for cat control). Quisk also has a cool remote control feature, making it so you can use the HL2 over a high jitter network (like wifi or cell).

DL1YCF's fork or piHPSDR is also very good, and support puresignal. It is also light weight and straight forward to use.

SparkSDR is nice looking, and really shines for doing CW (it has built-in keyboard CW keyer) and for skimming various digital modes.

I can appreciate thetis, but I don't feel compelled to run windows to be able to run thetis.

-Heath

[Lukasz Olszewski]

.

On Wed, 15 Jan 2025, 00:29 Heath Petty, <hpe...@gmail.com> wrote:

The creator of the HL2 (Steve) primarily uses Linux, and until work was done to add features to thetis to support the HL2, Linux was kind of the preferred OS to use with the HL2 (as far as I have read). I only use Linux, and the applications that support the HL2 support all the features that thetis has. I primarily use quisk, its not as pretty as thetis, but its power, fairly light weight and is reliable. It supports the wdsp library so for SSB you have the great NR2 filter.

Does Quisk support Puresignal? That feature is the main reason I got HL2

Its dead easy to use quisk with various digital mode applications (quisk automatically creates pulse loop back devices and provides a hamlib network interface for cat control). Quisk also has a cool remote control feature, making it so you can use the HL2 over a high jitter network (like wifi or cell).

DL1YCF's fork or piHPSDR is also very good, and support puresignal. It is also light weight and straight forward to use.

Thanks ill look into it (try to build it on a Linux pc etc).

73,

Łukasz 

[Heath Petty]

Quisk does not support puresignal, but I have never had any issues with poor transmit signal quality. I am not running QRO, my most powerful amp is a Juma PA100d, so puresignal isn't as critical. Unless I have seriously messed something up, or I have RFI issues, I have never had a bad signal report.

-Heath

[Ron Lewkowicz]

The only thing I can think of in Thetis that is not in PiHPSDR is putting spots on the panadapter.  Now I personally find the spots are largely useless but they may work better depending on where you live in the world. 

Otherwise, Linux is hands down the better OS for SDR.  Better audio system by a landslide. 

Quisk is my first choice for digital modes and PiHPSDR by DL1YCF for SSB.  PiHPSDR has the best Pure Signal implementation thanks to DL1YCF.   I find it also has the best panadapter and waterfall display. 

Porting Thetis current code base would be difficult to probably next to impossible I believe.  If there are needed functions it should be much easier to add them into PiHPSDR I expect. There is a take off project by DL1BZ called deskHPSDR that is doing some of this already. Adding in extra audio meters for example.   Both of these offer bullet proof solutions.  You simply do not have random database breakage or Windows registry breakage that leads to Thetis issue of randomly not starting.

[Clifford Heath]

I'm a software developer by trade so if the software is open source, how hard can it be to make a Linux port?

As I understand it, Thetis is mostly in C#, which is available on Unix and I can attest that it works very well. But it has no access to the Windows GUI, as no Unix implementation has been done. 

It's easier to just run Thetis a Windows VM, but to port Thetis you would first need to entirely isolate the GUI code, so you have just the SDR code talking to GUI through an abstraction layer, and then write an alternative front-end. I would suggest that instead of using a Linux desktop UI library like QT or GTK, a Web server implementation would be very effective, provide remote access, and be eminently customisable. I think it could be very popular.

I have experience in this class of major re-architecting of software products, but this project is not currently on my horizon.

Clifford Heath 

[Lukasz Olszewski]

On Wed, 15 Jan 2025, 06:08 Ron Lewkowicz, <ron.le...@gmail.com> wrote:

The only thing I can think of in Thetis that is not in PiHPSDR is putting spots on the panadapter.  Now I personally find the spots are largely useless but they may work better depending on where you live in the world. 

Thanks

I don't suppose there is much overlap between Thetis users and pihpsdr users.

I tried pihpsdr yesterday and it seemed great. But when I managed to get Thetis working with wine I immediately notices things it has pihpsdr doesn't. For example input audio compression. And I just scratched the surface.

Then I think I may have mentioned phase display.

While I can achieve input compression with "easy effects" on Linux and I'll not need the phase display too often the reason.I started this thread is to lessen the probability there is a large number of features (like that compression that may very well be much better for voice than whatever I can achieve by fiddling with easy effects) I'll never even know about.

I'll prefer to just stay with pihpsdr, but don't want to miss out.

So I set up a pc with windows and remote desktop to try it out "properly" (I still would love anyone that knows of any missing features to post, as it'll take me ages just to explore thetis).

And the first snag I hit is that I have no audio devices on Windows and fir some reason creating a virtual device is an unheard of concept in Windows. There are lots of "virtual czble"apos, but what if you have nothing to connect them to? (both Thetis and Sonobus I use to send audio back to my Linux pc need some audio interface).

,I installed jack and got a "jack router"interface which worked briefly, but then after restarting jack I can't get it to work again...

It'll be extremely silly if I have to buy a $5 usb sound adapter and leave it empty just so I can route sound between apps.

If anyone can recommend something they use on Windows  to route sound, let me know please(while using thetis via remote desktop).

73,

Łukasz 

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[Lukasz Olszewski]

Turns out there is compression in pihpsdr. 

Also equaliser, another function I wasn't sure about .

So this leaves only the phase display.

73,

Łukasz 

[wj.sz...@gmail.com]

Hi.

The software used is a matter of individual preferences and needs.

In Thetis, you will find, among other features, the ability to add additional modules, as well as the well-known CFC Audio Tools, which have been around for many years. The usage of CFC was demonstrated on YouTube by W1AEX in reference to PowerSDR mRX PS (the predecessor of Thetis).

Below is an example layout of Thetis, featuring alternative meters and windows with information on propagation and antenna rotor position, created using containers.

Setup -> Appearance -> Multi meters -> Add Container.

73, Joe LB1HI

[David Taylor]

On 14/01/2025 20:25, Lukasz Olszewski wrote:
> I'm.a long term Linux user and I'm not a big fan of windows (I use it at work
> daily). Upon hearing that PowerSDR and Thetis are both open source I just
> assumed both would have Linux versions. Only once I bought HL2 and wanted to
> install the software I found out that nope, they don't work on Linux.

SparkSDR runs on Linux (and others) - you might try that:

https://www.sparksdr.com/

"Cross platform sdr application for Hermes Lite and Open HPSDR compatible
radios (Red Pitya, Apache labs) and SDRplay.

Runs on Windows 7+, Linux x64, linux arm(rpi) and Mac."

I'd reccomend the "nightly" release, and the .991 version. Here are the .975
preview releases on https://www.sparksdr.com/downloads

Windows 10 - 11 64bit SparkSDR.2.0.975.win64.zip
Windows 7 + 32bit SparkSDR.2.0.975.win32.zip
Linux x64 SparkSDR.2.0.975.linux-x64.deb
Linux x64 SparkSDR.2.0.975.linux-x64.rpm
Mac SparkSDR.2.0.975.osx.zip
Linux adm64 (rpi 64 bit) SparkSDR.2.0.975.linux-arm64.deb
Linux armhf (rpi 32 bit) SparkSDR.2.0.975.linux-arm.deb
EXTIO interface files for windowssparkextiodrivers.zip

Use those URLs but with 991 instead of 975.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david...@writeme.com
BlueSky: @gm8arv.bsky.social, Twitter: @gm8arv

[Ron Lewkowicz]

Yes, all the wdsp features are also in PiHPSDR though some are not directly select able or adjustable.  The phase rotation and leveler are enabled with the default settings when ever compression and/or CFC are engaged but not directly select able.   If you are interested in these you may wish to follow instead the deskHPSDR project. https://github.com/dl1bz/deskhpsdr as there are more config options for these in it.   For the most part I don't like the WDSP signal chain tools in Thetis and I don't like them any more in PiHPSDR.  I use Linux Studio Plugins running in a Carla host through Pipewire Jack.  It was the ability to do this that lead me to PiHPSDR and the purchase of an HL2. If Thetis was the only option I would have bought something else.

Some features have been left out by design.  PiHPSDR is meant to have a simple UI that fits on a small touch screen to make operation usable on controllers or on the touch screen of the new G2 Anan.  deskHPSDR adds more to the GUI and requires a larger display.

Thetis seems to have poor support for controllers and focuses on HID instead of MIDI or GPIO.  This makes Thetis difficult when your primary focus needs to be on the logging software.  At least I've found PiHPSDR much more usable in this case and the MIDI actions are easily extendable in the source code.

I will still pick PiHPSDR on Linux over Thetis every day of the week.  I don't like Thetis GUI and I detest the Windows audio system.  I'm not missing anything and most importantly I have a system that I know will fire up and work 100% of the time.   This is a must.

[Heath Petty]

Ron, Do you have some notes on your audio setup? (the LSP/CALA/Pipewire setup). I've been happy with the "default" audio setup, but It would be fun to fine tune things a bit. (sorry for thread high-jacking, we can take this to PMs)

-Heath

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[Gary Abercrombie]

Ron,

Since pihpsdr and Thetis both use portaudio library for audio, how is Linux audio better than Windows audio?  Portaudio allows configuration of which audio subsystem will be used under the hood.

I use portaudio in both Windows and Linux versions of my CQSDR software.  I did this on purpose so I could make my software as portable to other platfoms as possible.

I do not use the windows registry nor a database for configuration but rather simply an INI file to retain all parameters.

Someone mentioned something about Midi vs HID interfaces also.  I developed my own MIDI console interface as the Thetis version is several thousands lines of code.  I implemented basically the same thing in several pages of code simply editing the midi console XML files that come with most controllers to map the midi notes and controls to my SDR.

Gary, N8CQ

---

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ron Lewkowicz <ron.le...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 9:08 PM
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: What am I giving up for not using Windows software with Hermes Light 2?

 

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[Wojtek J. Sz.]

Hi Marius,

The space at the bottom is already available in the default layout. It is a dynamic space in terms of size. When resizing the TheTis window, this space is rescaled (its size changes).

However, the space at the top and on the right retains its size. The space in the top and right sections can be accessed by disabling legacy items.

In the obtained space, containers can be placed according to individual needs and preferences.

73, Joe LB1HI

czw., 16 sty 2025 o 15:42 Marius Lubbe - Ham Station <ZS...@outlook.com> napisał(a):

Very nice layout Joe, well done. Very classy and highly professional look.

Is there somewhere I can get the file or instruction how you managed to fit it all in between the already crowded space at the bottom especially.

 

 

73 en mooiloop,

73 and kind regards,

 

Marius Lubbe – ZS1ML

Chairman: Boland Amateur Radio Klub: www.bark.org.za

Vice Chairman: Western Cape Repeater Working Group. www.wcrwg.co.za

 

We serve a wide area including the Cape Winelands and Cape Town areas, of South Africa.

Mobile phone: +27 (0)82 785 7763

 

Make it a mission today to use a repeater near you, call in and speak to someone, or answer a call.

Western Cape Repeaters need to be used or we will eventually lose them.

 

From: herme...@googlegroups.com <herme...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of wj.sz...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2025 3:01 PM
To: Hermes-Lite <herme...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: What am I giving up for not using Windows software with Hermes Light 2?

 

Hi.

The software used is a matter of individual preferences and needs.

In Thetis, you will find, among other features, the ability to add additional modules, as well as the well-known CFC Audio Tools, which have been around for many years. The usage of CFC was demonstrated on YouTube by W1AEX in reference to PowerSDR mRX PS (the predecessor of Thetis).

Below is an example layout of Thetis, featuring alternative meters and windows with information on propagation and antenna rotor position, created using containers.

Setup -> Appearance -> Multi meters -> Add Container.

73, Joe LB1HI

On Thursday, January 16, 2025 at 9:21:53 AM UTC Lukasz Olszewski wrote:

Turns out there is compression in pihpsdr. 

 

Also equaliser, another function I wasn't sure about .

 

So this leaves only the phase display.

 

73,

Łukasz 

 

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[Christopher Kaus]

What is the group's thoughts on Linux distro to use? My primary machine is running Manjaro which is Arch based but I seem to recall (and the RPi stuff is based on) a Debian distro? Would appreciate any input. My primary machine as I said is Linux, I built a Windows machine so I could run Thetis for my HL2 that I recently acquired. This thread has me thinking I should at least dual boot and try some stuff under Linux before I get too far down the road on Windows.

[Ron Lewkowicz]

I don't think there is any compelling reason to use any one distro over any other.  What ever you are most familiar with and have a preference for is likely the best choice.

[Clifford Heath]

On 24 Jan 2025, at 5:10 pm, Ron Lewkowicz <ron.le...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think there is any compelling reason to use any one distro over any other.  What ever you are most familiar with and have a preference for is likely the best choice.

On Thursday, January 23, 2025 at 10:52:06 PM UTC-7 Christopher Kaus wrote:

What is the group's thoughts on Linux distro to use? My primary machine is running Manjaro

I have had a bad experience trying to set up HL2 software on a headless Manjaro server.

I refuse to use VNC, and X doesn’t include audio, so RDP is the protocol of choice. Unfortunately the Manjaro or Arch maintainers seem to thing that audio is related to a console login, so the RDP audio drivers are preconfigured to simply fail unless someone is logged in on the console.

I’m about to wipe that entire install and install Debian, which has a much broader and more flexible set of opinions.

Clifford Heath.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/21f8c809-86a3-46d5-8d19-7c78674c1a91n%40googlegroups.com.

[Lukasz Olszewski]

I use Debian 12. Building software like the DL1YCF's version of pihpsdr works fine for me (fresh install, I just added build essentials  and cnake , rest was installed by the great lib install script from that repo).

RDP just works in Gnome, but mind I don't use sound redirection with that. I use Sonobus for sharing sound devices across the LAN.

SDR++ also built fine.

However ,  it's not entirely without issues, I have NVidia hardware on obe of my PCs and I had issues with suspend (but that would happen regardless of distro).

I agree the distro doesn't matter that much as long as you know it well. If you don't know any of them well Debian is a pretty good choice. Few years ago I'd say Ubuntu, but I'm not a fan of the push to snaps.

73, Łukasz 

[Doug Lung]

I'll second Debian as a solid choice. I use it and the Raspberry Pi OS on several of my machines. It's hard to beat the number of packages available for it on multiple platforms and it is very reliable for headless installs. 

However, for easier hardware support and kernel upgrades, I've been using Fedora on my newer Lenovo laptops, replacing Kubuntu. On my P1, after installing the drivers from RPMFusion everything just worked. So far, upgrading from one version to the next one every six months has not been a problem. Lenovo offers Fedora as a OS option on new laptops, so support is excellent. Pihpsdr compiled just fine as well as the development version of WSJT-X. I also run SparkSDR, Quisk, JS8Call, GQRX, fldigi and other SDR/data programs with no problem. For logging I'm using QLog but keeping my eye open for alternatives with more features. 

I still have Arch on an older Lenovo P51 laptop and if you know your way around Linux it works quite well, especially with the large number of programs available in AUR (Arch User Repository) and the rolling releases providing the latest kernels. Current build has been running about three years since installing it after replacing an SSD. Hybrid graphics was a challenge but not a high priority. I tried Manjaro for a while but found it wasn't as easy to work around issues with it as with Arch. In the end, while Manjaro had a simpler install, Arch was easier to maintain especially when I had to use MySQL instead of MariaDB for a critical project or needed to build kernel modules to support specialized hardware. I prefer the freedom Arch provides. 

Like Lukasz, I gave up on Ubuntu/Kubuntu after getting tired of trying to replace snaps. 

There are lots of other choices, including many Debian derivatives, but I'd stick with ones that have enough developers working on them to be around for a while. 

73. Doug

AH6DL

[Ron Lewkowicz]

Linux Mint uses Ubuntu package base and has snap disabled by default. One would assume snap can be disabled in Ubuntu as well then.  I've been using Linux Mint for quite a few years now. The only real issue is that due to being on an LTS base things  can get to be a bit dated by the end of the two year cycle and are occasionally already quite dated even at the start of the cycle.  Building from source or obtaining from a PPA sometimes becomes desirable to run up to date software. 

[Lukasz Olszewski]

Coming back to "what features are there in Thetis that are missing in PiHPSDR" I've encountered a huge one and another smaller one.

The huge one is the little numbers shown next to peaks you can enable next to panadapter peaks on Thetis. There is nothing like it on pihpsdr. This feature is hugely useful to see ones own IMD as well as others (if they choose to transmit two tone) etc. I'd love if it was added. I'm not sure how convoluted/sinoke the codebase is. I may look into adding it myself.

Second thing is auto notch filter. There is one in Thetis where you press a button and it filters out a carrier on your listening freq.

And a third is ability to subtract the passband of rx2 from rc1. It works great in Thetis to cut out someone who splatters into your channel.

Hey, I may add a nice to have while I'm at it . This is not in Thetis as far as I can tell. I wish there was a phase delay option. Let's say you have a vertical on which you try to make a DC QSO and an nvis dipole . Someone local transmits on your dx freq. You'll hear that person pretty well on the nvis dipole and hopefully there will be no sign of DX there. By inverting the phase one could cut the local guy out significantly .

73, Łukasz 

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[Ron Lewkowicz]

On the first point, no nothing like that in PiHPSDR.  No idea if Christoph would consider that himself.  He might accept a patch for it. 

On the second point, auto notch filter is in PiHPSDR.  ANF check box on the noise menu. Works excellent.  All the other NCS and relay stations have problems when some jerk puts a 9+30 carrier over top of the net.  ANF takes it right out.  Enough delay on the process that CW still comes through. I just leave it on all the time but I do have a button on my MIDI controller to turn it on and off as desired.

On the third point, I use the VAR pass band filter on RX and set the TX pass band separately. If someone encroaches on either side I narrow the RX pass band on the affected side  to eliminate them. 

[Lukasz Olszewski]

On Sun, 26 Jan 2025, 02:38 Ron Lewkowicz, <ron.le...@gmail.com> wrote:

On the second point, auto notch filter is in PiHPSDR.  ANF check box on the noise menu. Works excellent.  All the other NCS and relay stations have problems when some jerk puts a 9+30 carrier over top of the net.  ANF takes it right out.

Any chance you could post a screenshot of your "noise" window in PiHPSDR, please? 

I thought ANF stands for Auto Notch Filter but it did nothing when I pressed it in exactly a situation you describe yesterday. 

I thought, maybe one of the NB filters has to be on, so I tried that too. No, no difference. SNF on the other hand did work (no idea what this acronym stands for, but it was improving the reception - I have to check the manual yet). 

73, Łukasz 

[DL1YCF]

A) I see no necessity for the small numbers at the peaks,
there are horizontal lines on
the pan adapter so you can easily determine the height of
the peaks.

B) in pihpsdr you can activate the auto notch filter, it is in the Noise
menu (ANF check button), but it is also possible to assign the ANF
command to a toolbar/panel/console button to have it at one tip.
So what do you want to tell?

C) „and a third“ I have not even understood what you mean. What one usually
does to get rid of splatter is to adjust the filter cut of the receiver.

D) This is present both in piHPSDR and in Thetis, its called DIVERSITY reception.
Unfortunately, this is not possible with the HL2 since it has only a single
ADC.

so RTMF (if there is one for Thetis that is up-to-date) and then compare/complain.

> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hermes-lite/CACwB4R5AkUWHwU6Xht-wM-n43yc10JpR%3Dm5vn5gyOay4es92rA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Lukasz Olszewski]

Thanks for the reply. The first is quite important for me. Possibly important enough for me to implement it myself. 

On Sun, 26 Jan 2025, 11:52 DL1YCF, <dl1...@darc.de> wrote:

A) I see no necessity for the small numbers at the peaks,
   there are horizontal lines on
   the pan adapter so you can easily determine the height of
   the peaks.

Imagine this scenario.

I have set the lines every 5dB for extra accuracy and let's say someone in a group puts out a two tone out and asks. How's my IMD and I have no idea in these 3s because there wasn't enough time to count the lines. So I try remembering where the signal was.  I put my fingers on the screen and read the lines then I wonder did I remember it exactly right?

In contrast in Thetis you can just see the numbers.

Also, I'm not complaining. I'm compiling a list of things that are not in PiHPSDR to make an informed decision what I'll invest a substantial amount if time in. Don't take it as a criticism of what you wrote. Even with these 4 points I'm leaning towards pihpsdr (although the major reason , is thetis runs only so-so under wine in Linux).

B) in pihpsdr you can activate the auto notch filter, it is in the Noise
   menu (ANF check button), but it is also possible to assign the ANF
   command to a toolbar/panel/console button to have it at one tip.
   So what do you want to tell?

I said already. I enabled it and it did absolutely nothing while SNF worked fine. I then discovered you need to have one of another filters enabled for it to work (it started working when I enabled NB2). Can one have it without NB2?

C)  „and a third“ I have not even understood what you mean. What one usually
    does to get rid of splatter is to adjust the filter cut of the receiver.

I re-watched the video where I saw it and actually it is a notch filter, but with an extra feature. There are multiple notches you can define. Rx2 is used only to define them. It is called MNF in Thetis and a short demo (and quite difficult to watch due to background noise) is here, starting at 17:43 https://youtu.be/987hdoS8lSw?si=N-VN9PVFCrO1PbUl

D)  This is present both in piHPSDR and in Thetis, its called DIVERSITY reception.
    Unfortunately, this is not possible with the HL2 since it has only a single
    ADC.

Is diversity actually something that works in PiHPSDR? Supposedly it supports Sdrs with multiple synced RX paths (like Limesdr I have). I haven't seen any docs how to use it. If there is some link you know please post it.

so RTMF (if there is one for Thetis that is up-to-date) and then compare/complain.

Yes I did RTFM both, but perhaps I haven't memorised them. That's why this is a thread that starts with a question.

Strange you would take this as a complaint where I said in multiple places I like both softwares. I get it, we're all sensitive about our creations. I'm grateful for every OS software I use to all of the authors.

Chill.

73 Łukasz 

[Roger David Powers]

You can do it the other way: Install Debian so you can be on the parent release of many, many other distros (Mint is one, Ubuntu is another, Raspberry Pi OS is another) then install the user interface from Mint which is known as Cinnamon so you get the desktop environment that you are familiar with.   

Instructions are simple:

Issue the command "sudo apt install task-cinnamon-desktop", log out, and select down cinammon and log in and you will be on cinammon.

What I do is install Debian on my Intel platforms and Raspberry Pi OS on my Pi devices, then install Cinnamon on top of both of those to get what I think is the best of all worlds.

Now back to discussing PiHPSDR, which I think is the best SDR application for ham radio on Linux.