Upcoming HL2 Build From Makerfabs

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

Makerfabs contacted me about a potential new build of HL2s for March 2023. They requested feedback on some potential part substitutions. The LDMOS used in the 5W amplifier, AFT05MS003N, is no longer available. Makerfabs wants to use the AFT05MS004N:

https://www.nxp.com/part/AFT05MS004N#/

The parts are similar but the AFT05MS004N is rated for 136-941MHz while the current AFT05MS003N is specified down to 1.8MHz. Maybe the AFT05M004N will work out of spec for HF but we will definitely need to test. I'd appreciate any feedback from the community regarding this potential substitution. The details for the AFT05MS003N are here:

 https://www.nxp.com/part/AFT05MS003N#/

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Graeme Jury]

Hello Steve,

NXP recommends the AFT05MS004N as a driver for the MRFE6VP6600M which is rated for 1.8 to 600 MHz. This infers that the AFT05MS004N is OK down to 1.8 MHz which I would have expected but of course I have not tried a pair so can not be sure.

the data sheet can be found here

73, Graeme ZL2APV

[Mike Brown]

According to a 2014 pre-launch article on Electronics Weekly "...the AFT05MS004N, the device is characterised at frequencies from 136 to 941MHz and can operate as low as 2MHz." So there is some evidence it'll go lower than the data sheet suggestion of suitability as a driver from 10-1000 MHz.

https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/rf-microwave-optoelectronics/freescale-tunes-low-power-rf-amps-4w-device-2014-06/

73

Mike

G4RAA

[jpwa...@gmail.com]

Steve,

It was good to hear from you. I would be pleased to hear that you are doing well and headed in a direction that suits you. 

The new HL2 build of the MakerLabs sounds interesting. I might be speculative thinking that I would add native VHF/UHF bands to the current package.

Then I could stop tinkering with building a VHF board like Matt's 2m/6M transverter board. 

If it does add VHF/UHF natively I would be interested in a pair of them depending on how pricey that are. And it would eliminate alot of Tinkering with HL2-VHF.

If you have a link to get them on order, let me know. Or who to contact to get on the list.

I haven't been doing much radio. WIth the late farming sycle this year and replacing a furnace at the house, it has made me tapped out.

No extra time at all to divert to Hamradio. 

Last week on the Thanksgiving road trip to see the kids, I operated my HL2 remotely. A VPN to the shack network and used SparkSDR to operate.

Next on the remote operations list will be the new version of Quisk with Jim's remote scheme.

Again, wishing your a great  holiday season. 

..jpw

KC9KKO

Morris, IL

[Ed Grafton]

It might be worth it to check the device with the test board & see if it works.

My Hermes-Lite - AFT05MS003N push-pull power amplifier measurements (qsl.net)

Above from quick Google search that I am sure you already have.

[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Steve and Group,

I looked at the data sheets, and the parts are similar. Both are mostly characterized from 130 to 900 MHz. It is only a comment that says one is good to 2 MHz and the other to 10 MHz. Neither part has a matched input or output at a given frequency which would restrict its spectrum. I would guess that the lack of data below 130 MHz is only because that is not the market.

When substituting the 004 for the 003 a couple things could go wrong. If the 004 has more gain above 130 MHz, it could oscillate in our HF application. Or the 004 could be less linear in class AB and so have higher harmonics. Neither of these issues is usually addressed in a data sheet.

Since the 004 is the manufacture's substitute for the 003, we should feel somewhat confident that it will work. But we will have to test.

Jim

N2ADR

[Graeme Jury]

Hello Steve and Group,

I have contacted NXP Technical Support and here is their response.

73, Graeme ZL2APV

Dear Graeme Jury,

Your contact with NXP support is appreciated. It is our pleasure to assist you.

You are correct, based on your requirements, the AFT05MS004N might be useful for your design. They share the same package, pinout and similar performance.

Unfortunately, the AFT05MS004N device is designed for handheld frequencies from 136 to 941 MHz.

Have you considered the series below?
AFIC901N - 30 dBm over 1.8-1000 MHz, 7.5 V Airfast® Wideband Integrated RF LDMOS Amplifier
Feel free to let me know if you found this information useful. You are welcome to ask any further questions.


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[Clifford Heath]

Based on that response, the HL2 won't work unless the device is hand-held. :eye_roll:

NXP doesn't employ the best and brightest, do they?

They mean it's not characterised below 136MHz, but it's hard to imagine any operating parameter of an unmatched device (having no internal bias controller) that would stop working below 136MHz...

By all means buy some and characterise them yourself before including them in a big order, but I'd be very surprised if they don't work exactly like their precursors.

Clifford Heath.

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[Scott AK5SD]

I looked at both data sheets in detail. The main difference in observable specs in that the 04 has a higher transconductance and higher internal capacitances by about 1.5x. This suggests that the device has a larger width/length ratio internally than the 03. The PA in HL2 uses a shunt feedback resistor to stabilize the gain and set the input impedance. The value of this resistor will likely need to be tweaked. The higher transconductance could result in oscillations as Jim mentioned, but if this happens we should be able to squelch it by populating L33/L34 with a ferrite bead, small resistor, or small inductor.

Scott

AK5SD

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

Thanks for the feedback. I swapped the AFT05MS003Ns for AFT05MS004Ns on one of my HL2s this weekend and it looks like they will work. With all other components the same, the output is a little higher (closer to 39dBm than 37dBm) and odd harmonics are a bit stronger. To protect the filters (designed and components ratings picked for 5W) and reduce the harmonics, I will tweak the feedback resistors to lower the gain a bit. Still, the harmonic suppression by the filters was good with no significant differences between 003 and 004 devices and different power levels. I biased at ~110mA per device. I saw no signs of oscillations. Once I finalize changes, I will try to run them by Claudio, the original designer of this PA.

I have a couple of spare devices if anyone else wants to do some real experiments too.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

Changing R92 and R99 from 270 to 220 Ohms lowers the gain a bit. 

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Jiri Culak]

Hi Steve, Group,

missed this thread - after my bad experience (caused by my own doing) I managed to damage my original HL2 and one of the FETs on PA went also so I actually direct replaced both for AFT05MS004N pair. I havent even changed the R92/99 and only properly biased and it looked very well indeed on spectrum analyser.

I gues that with proper bias and PureSignal, this will produce better signal than some off the shelf kits.

73 Jiri OK2IT

Dne čtvrtek 8. prosince 2022 v 5:42:42 UTC+1 uživatel softerh...@gmail.com napsal:

[Tim Hatch]

Hello to all,

I have done some testing to compare the AFT05MS003 to the AFT05MS004 transistors.  I have put the results on GitHub if anyone is interested.

Link is here:

https://github.com/W0AHO

73

Tim

W0AHO

On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 8:45:33 PM UTC-6 softerh...@gmail.com wrote:

[Prabir Debnath]

Hi Tim,

Just got a chance to check the results. So,  AFT05MS004N is a winner

73, Probir VU2BQF

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[Rafael Diniz]

This means a new batch of the HL2 is approaching?

: ))

Cheers,
Rafael

On 12/29/22 18:50, Prabir Debnath wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> Just got a chance to check the results. So, AFT05MS004N is a winner
>
> 73, Probir VU2BQF
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 6:17 PM Tim Hatch <wb0...@gmail.com
> <mailto:wb0...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello to all,
> I have done some testing to compare the AFT05MS003 to the AFT05MS004
> transistors.  I have put the results on GitHub if anyone is interested.
> Link is here:

> https://github.com/W0AHO <https://github.com/W0AHO>

> 73
> Tim
> W0AHO
>
> On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 8:45:33 PM UTC-6

> softerh...@gmail.com <mailto:softerh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Group,
>
> Makerfabs contacted me about a potential new build of HL2s for
> March 2023. They requested feedback on some potential part
> substitutions. The LDMOS used in the 5W amplifier, AFT05MS003N,
> is no longer available. Makerfabs wants to use the AFT05MS004N:
>
> https://www.nxp.com/part/AFT05MS004N#/
> <https://www.nxp.com/part/AFT05MS004N#/>
>
> The parts are similar but the AFT05MS004N is rated for
> 136-941MHz while the current AFT05MS003N is specified down to
> 1.8MHz. Maybe the AFT05M004N will work out of spec for HF but we
> will definitely need to test. I'd appreciate any feedback from
> the community regarding this potential substitution. The details
> for the AFT05MS003N are here:
>
> https://www.nxp.com/part/AFT05MS003N#/
> <https://www.nxp.com/part/AFT05MS003N#/>
>
> 73,
>
> Steve
> kf7o
>
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