Thetis - Issues transmitting using VFO B

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Brock,

I think the problem is in the original Thetis code base as I can reproduce the problem without WSJT-X, just using the MOX button. I already had too fix an issue while Tx'ing under VFO B, the correct LFP was not being selected.

I'll make a new release when I find the problem.

One of the problems with Google groups is the threading is not done via the Subject line. If you respond via email and try to make a new thread, it will still tag it to the old thread. Maybe I need to create a totally new message and not try to take a short cut using an old message. I'll give that a try.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT 

On 07/04/2021 17:31, Brock Nanson wrote:

Hi Reid,

Always good to know that I'm not just screwing something up - so confirmation that you're seeing it too is great.  I'll check what's going on with TX Profile save... I recall a setting to automatically save changes - maybe I'll try that too.

I'm very happy to do what I can to test.  I have no marketable coding skills, so this is really about all I can do to help the effort.  If I find any related issues/symptoms, I'll pass them on.  And if you want me to check anything in my installation, please just ask.

...it's too bad the subject of this thread is now completely unrelated - not easy for someone else to stumble upon the information within!

Brock

On Wednesday, April 7, 2021 at 12:56:43 AM UTC-7 scumballc...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Brock,

On 07/04/2021 06:27, Brock Nanson wrote:

Hi Reid,

Back to it this evening... and again, no TX with WSJT-X!  Hmmm....  No configuration changes at all since it began working.  I tuned around, flipped between bands, called CQ on CW... then tried the tune function in both WSJT-X and Thetis.  Nothing.

An interesting thing though... the Tune button on both Thetis and WSJT-X *will* cause power output when TX set to VFO B and RX2 mode set for DIGU, but NOT if RX1 mode is set for CWL or CWU!  Other RX1 modes, apparently no issue, but the CW modes in RX1 seem to prevent RX2 DIGU power output.

Yes, I'm seeing this as well, so that give me a starting point in the code. One other thing to watch, don't have the MON button active as that will cause feedback through WSJT-X.

I also note that switching from CWU to DIGU in RX1 will turn off both VAC1 and VAC2.

I'm not see this, so I would try saving the default TX profile with both VACs on. Menu setting for this is:

Transmit|Profiles|Save with the profile set to default. It will ask what profile and then ask to confirm it.

Thanks for your help in testing this.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

Brock

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:41:16 PM UTC-7 Brock Nanson wrote:

Hi Reid,

I played around some more at lunch just now, probably as you were writing your response.

Yes to the VAC 2 on Split.  Did not know about saving to the default TX profile - Will do this also.

At this point, I finally got WSJT-X to cause power output.  I toggled the Setup > Transmit > Tune > "use drive power" toggle and it began working.  And kept working after untoggling to see if I could confirm this is the issue... so that's perhaps helpful but probably not...  And no, the tune power was not previously set to zero... I note that the issue was with FT8 only, so I'm at a loss as to why this is even relevant.  Maybe coincidental?

If it reverts to the previous behavior, I'll do what I can to note the process leading to that point.

The temperamental behavior of the software with HL2 communications is good to know - I won't worry about that any longer!

Brock

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 1:16:26 PM UTC-7 scumballc...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Brock,

On 06/04/2021 17:53, Brock Nanson wrote:

Hi Reid,

The Windows bar at the top reads Thetis-HL2 v2.8.12 (03/21/21) Beta 2.

Ok, there goes the theory.

Switching mode in RX2 to CW, the paddle triggers TX and Thetis shows power output.

There are times when I've seen VFO B go to dulled colours and not allow user input.  I haven't been able to figure out what eventually brings it back (sometimes corrects without restarting Thetis).

I've noted that sometimes after going into the configurations of WSJT-X and Thetis to confirm a setting (cancel to exit), VAC 2 is off.  Switching back on does NOT bring back the stream in WSJT-X.  The only solution at that point is to shut down Thetis and restart.  At one point while searching through the settings, Thetis actually crashed - just disappeared off the screen without any error messages.

Have you ticked set Audio|VAC2|Use VAC2 on Split?

You need to save the default Tx profile when you select VAC2 or it will be forgotten.

Thetis is very temperamental when it come to losing the connection to the HL2. It goes away in a huff and has to be restarted. I haven't found the problem in the code for that yet.

Is WSJT-X controlling the frequency of VFO B ok?

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

Other than the FT8 Transmit, the RX2 solution seems workable and functions as expected.

Brock

On Tuesday, April 6, 2021 at 12:50:32 AM UTC-7 scumballc...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Brock,

First, what version of Thetis are you using, this requires Beta2 to work correctly. I initially seen this with the Beta1 and it was related to incorrect LPF selection when using VFO Tx.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT 

On 06/04/2021 06:30, Brock Nanson wrote:

Hi Reid,

Finally having some time available, I have been playing with your RX2 suggestion tonight.  Everything seems to work so far, except that I can't get any power out when transmitting FT8 with WSJT-X.  I can hear and decode and control frequency from WSJT-X.  As well, the Tune button toggles Thetis and the HL2 into TX mode.  But no power out.  TX is selected on VFO B.  The Tune button on Thetis does the same thing (toggles to TX, no power).  Drive is set to maximum.  Mode to DIGU.  And I can transmit CW on VFO A with expected output power.

Is there an independent setting for the drive to VFO B that I can't find?

Rebooted, restarted the software, checked the settings over 16 different ways.... I'm not seeing the problem.  Any suggestions?

73

Brock

VA7AV

[Brock Nanson]

Hi Reid,

Sounds good.

In case it's relevant to this issue, I saw an unusual quirk this morning.  I started Thetis and had it power on the HL2.  Both RX1 and RX2 came to life, as both were running when last shut down.  I started WSJT-X and noted nothing in the WSJT-X waterfall.  However, RX2 was tuned to the right frequency and showed signals.  RX1 was a few kc's down the band.

Both VACs were on.  And WSJT-X was showing dead air, not the red bars that indicate no audio signal.  Audio level was in the green.  So it was getting audio, just audio without FT8 information.

I checked the audio settings in Thetis.  Both were as they should be, with VAC2 being the only one using virtual cables (VAC1 set to a USB headset).

I tuned RX1 to the FT8 frequency and WSJT-X started receiving signals.  I tuned it away and it continued to receive signals.  Weird.

Given the RX1 audio settings with VAC1 could not have sent FT8 tones to WSJT-X, I have to think that the issue is related to VFO A and VFO B being confused in Thetis.  Perhaps this ties into the issue that started this thread?

Brock

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Brock,

I think there are a few funnies in Thetis with regards to Tx'ing using VFO B. In your Setup|General|OC Control|J16 Receive Pins, do you have the LPFs in for receive? I normal run with only the HPF in line (Pin 7 ticked) as the selected Tx VFO will determine the LFP during receive. If VFO B is Tx active and on 80 metres, the higher frequencies will be blocked. If VFO A is on 17M, all signals will be attenuated but bypassing the LFPs gets around that.

I may have problems in the future as the sun wakes up and there is more RF on the higher bands but time will tell.

I'm wondering if your problem was due to the LFP relays being incorrect at startup and moving VFO A corrected the situation. You would have heard a relay click as well, setting the correct LFP.  

Thanks for giving feedback. Everybody operates differently and that's the only way to find these more obscure bugs.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT   

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[Brock Nanson]

Hi Reid,

I think I know what you're talking about, regarding the filter settings.  When playing around previously, I did notice that I could pretty much kill the sensitivity by tuning the VFOs to different bands.  However, when I noticed this issue, both VFO's were tuned to the same band (20m IIRC).  VFO B was on the FT8 frequency and VFO A was perhaps 50 kc lower, where I had been copying CW the day before.  So, likely the same filters involved.

As well, I could see the FT8 transmissions on the VFO B waterfall.  But they weren't visible on the WSJT-X waterfall... just empty blue space... which is what alerted me to a problem  This indicated to me, along with the green audio level, that WSJT-X was getting an audio signal, but one devoid of information.  If there's a VAC issue, WSJT-X displays red stripes in the waterfall.  I tried toggling modes in both A and B, to no apparent effect.  I just happened to try dragging VFO A closer to the B frequency and at some point WSJT-X began showing signals. Exactly when, I don't know.  I will watch for this again and be better prepared to note the details the next time!

If the filters were the issue, I don't think I would have seen the signals in the Thetis waterfall... right?

Brock

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Brock,

I can reproduce the problem without the VACs, so I don't think it is a VAC issue. Try this on your set-up:

Both VAC disabled

VFO A - 80M, LSB
VFO B - 10M, FM
Power level 0
MOX - should produce about 0.2W

Now try

VFO A - 80M, CWL
VFO B - 10M, FM
Power level 0
MOX - No output

The difference between LSB and CWL is that the CW is generated in the HL2 hardware, so the modulation stream has been shut down. I the problem is that the determination to shutdown the stream appears to be based on VFO A mode rather on the active transmit VFO.

I did find a bit in the code that was coded as "If not CW enable modulation", unfortunately it is using the correct Tx mode, so the search continues.   

On 10/04/2021 23:46, Brock Nanson wrote:

Hi Reid,

I think I know what you're talking about, regarding the filter settings.  When playing around previously, I did notice that I could pretty much kill the sensitivity by tuning the VFOs to different bands.  However, when I noticed this issue, both VFO's were tuned to the same band (20m IIRC).  VFO B was on the FT8 frequency and VFO A was perhaps 50 kc lower, where I had been copying CW the day before.  So, likely the same filters involved.

Ok, your aware of that potential issue.

As well, I could see the FT8 transmissions on the VFO B waterfall.  But they weren't visible on the WSJT-X waterfall... just empty blue space... which is what alerted me to a problem  This indicated to me, along with the green audio level, that WSJT-X was getting an audio signal, but one devoid of information.  If there's a VAC issue, WSJT-X displays red stripes in the waterfall.  I tried toggling modes in both A and B, to no apparent effect.  I just happened to try dragging VFO A closer to the B frequency and at some point WSJT-X began showing signals. Exactly when, I don't know.  I will watch for this again and be better prepared to note the details the next time!

This is very strange. It may be relate to the Tx problem but I will keep an eye for it in my own operations.

If the filters were the issue, I don't think I would have seen the signals in the Thetis waterfall... right?

I don't think it is a LPF issue, it's somewhere is the transmit logic.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Brock Nanson]

Hi Reid,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

I can confirm that I see the behavior you predicted.  Certainly, your thinking that the problem is with VFO A mode rather than the mode of the active TX VFO makes sense to me.  And I wouldn't doubt that there's even more weirdness between A and B than that.  I saw twice what looked to be the narrower filter of A being set for B.  This assumption is based on how the waterfall looked.  Flipping things back and forth, it eventually seemed to respect the filter setting actually set in B.  I haven't been able to reliably reproduce this though, so I'm not going to say I'm sure it's happening... yet .... ;-)  But it feels to me like the second VFO was a bit of a bolt on improvement, that might not have been fully debugged...

Based on my lousy experiences with the ATU in my Flex 6400 and SmartSDR... hmm... ;-)

Brock

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Brock,

I have found the issue with CW mode on VFO A while using B. It's relates to the keyer getting switched on which will disable Tx audio. I have a fix for it but still in the testing stage.

I'm using VFO B beyond it's brief, so we have to expect a funny or two. I think it's worth the trouble as it does give you a quick change to a digital mode without having to mess with VAC settings.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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[Brock Nanson]

Hi Reid,

I absolutely agree that it's worth the trouble to get working properly - easy for me to say though, because it's not my 'trouble' involved... ;-)

I have a feeling that you're opening a can of worms.  Playing with it again last night, I got to a point where VAC 2 was off, WSJT-X was apparently receiving via the frequency set in VFO A instead of VFO B, even though VAC 1 was configured for Windows devices in Thetis and WSJT-X still had the virtual audio cable configuration set in VAC 2.  Soon after, VFO B grayed out and shortly after that, Thetis simply crashed.  Based on the settings, WSJT-X shouldn't have worked for a few reasons... so, a head-scratcher for sure.

I'm definitely happy to test what I can for you though.

Brock

VA7AV

[Reid Campbell]

Hi Brock,

I think I have a fix for the CW on VFO A stopping transmission while using VFO B. Just need a bit more testing. I would have to agree that VFO B is a bit of an after thought. You can't use CWX on VFO B and I'm sure there are many more features it doesn't support.

If we can find a reliable way to reproduce the faults, then they can be fixed, so keep up the good work on tracking the bugs down.

Cheers

Reid
Gi8TME/Mi0BOT

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