PTT Timeout Timer?

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Jaroslav Škarvada

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May 2, 2020, 10:42:24 AM5/2/20
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Hi,

in the past it happened to me several times that the host control SW
crashed (maybe due to the RFI during the TX) and the Hermes Lite got
stuck in the TX. I usually quickly spotted the problem and fixed it by
killing the host SW, but I wonder is there something like the PTT
timeout timer support in the firmware? To set it let's say to 10 minutes
and don't care about the SW problems when operating remotely

thanks & regards

Jaroslav

Steve Haynal

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May 2, 2020, 3:17:45 PM5/2/20
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Hi Jaroslav,

Which gateware version are you using? Currently, we have two protection mechanisms in place. First, once software connects to the HL2, it needs to send proper ethernet packets at regular intervals. If it doesn't, a watchdog timer in the gateware will timeout and the HL2 will leave the run state. The HL2 can only transmit if run is on, so TX will disengaged. I don't remember of the top of my head what the timeout is, but it is measured in seconds or less. Second, if the temperature reaches 55C TX will be disengaged. 

Are you saying that software crashes yet is still sending proper ethernet packets to the HL2? Which software are you using?

73,

Steve
kf7o

Alex Pressl

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Jun 8, 2020, 10:05:38 AM6/8/20
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Hi Jaroslaw,

I did see something like this too. It is real.

In my case SDR console shoots off my NVIDA (GPU) board, but the PC does continue to operate normal:) you can still listen to the radio even, but screen is black and never comes back. In my case it happens also when not TX.

unfortunately I have this now too often, it is starnge I never saw this with SDR console before when using LIME SDR for satellite comm. But didnt look into the issue yet, checking out another PC console in the first place to get an idea where to look.
dont know if anyone else  saw similar symptoms?

greetings
Alex

Jaroslav Škarvada

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Jun 8, 2020, 10:39:46 AM6/8/20
to Alex Pressl, Hermes-Lite
Hi Alex,

your symptoms seems different. My concerns was that it could happen (and
already happened for me) with the following setup:

Hermes <- Quisk (emulating rigctld) <- 3rd party SW (using hamlib)

I.e. Quisk is used as the control front end, the 3rd party SW is
connected to the Quisk through the Hamlib/rigctld protocol and uses
Quisk built-in rigctld server. The 3rd party SW issues PTT ON command,
then it sends something and then it crashes (for whatever reason). Now
you have TXed for forever (or until the overheating protection in the
firmware kicks-in), because it seems there is no PTT timout timer on the
path and nothing sends the PTT off command to the rigctld

Jaroslav, OK2JRQ

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Steve Haynal

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Jun 10, 2020, 1:30:07 AM6/10/20
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Hi Jaroslav,

Do you think software is crashing, but the core HL2 communication code is still running? This is the only scenario I can think of which might cause this. There is a watchdog timer which requires hearing from software for the HL2 to stay running, so the HL2 must still be receiving packets from the PC.

73,

Steve
kf7o

Jaroslav Škarvada

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Jun 10, 2020, 1:10:54 PM6/10/20
to Steve Haynal, Hermes-Lite
Hi Steve,

it's not crash of the frontend (Quisk), but crash of the 3rd party app
controlling the frontend, see my simple block diagram in my previous
post. The packets are correctly sent to Hermes by Quisk, but the
software controlling Quisk could crash (e.g. wsjtx, fldigi, etc.).
Reproducer is simple:

- start quisk, link with the Hermes
- $ rigctl -m 2 -r localhost:4575 -P RIG T 1

After this command it seems the radio TX for forever (I tried for 5
minutes). This simulates the 3rd party application crash after issuing
the PTT ON, i.e. after the crash there is nobody to send the
corresponding 'T 0' rigctl command to Quisk to PTT OFF. Quisk thinks
everything is OK and keeps sending the TX packets to firmware.

This is usually not much a problem with USB mode - there is no power
going out without modulation, there is just the amplifier bias current
slightly heating up the radio, but if the 3rd party SW crashes/locks so
badly in the state when it repeatedly sends the audio buffer (this also
happened to me) or the mode is set to FM then the power is going out
which is not optimal.

This could be resolved by addition of the TOT to Quisk, but I think
similar problem could happen with other frontends as well

73! Jaroslav, OK2JRQ

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Steve Haynal

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Jun 11, 2020, 11:53:34 PM6/11/20
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Hi Jaroslav,

Okay. Thanks for the explanation. What do you and others think an appropriate time for a TX time out is? I thought I read about a new WSPR or JT mode that can have a TX window of 15 minutes. Maybe a TOT that is on by default but which can be disabled? This same situation can happen with other radios, even nonSDR. What do other radios do?

73,

Steve
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Jonas Sanamon

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Jun 12, 2020, 5:23:09 AM6/12/20
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Hi Steve,

I've heard a fellow ham talking so long on the air that his transceiver PTT timer timed out on him multiple times while in a long rant. I think it was 3 minutes between timeouts.
He was using a Flex radio. 

Regards
Jonas - SM4VEY


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Probir

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Jun 12, 2020, 6:04:19 AM6/12/20
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Well PTT time out should be user customizable in their respective SDR software NOT AT the hardware end  - in my opinion
 
73
PROBIR VU2BQF
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Steve Haynal

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Jun 13, 2020, 1:02:18 AM6/13/20
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Hi Probir,

I tend to agree, but not all software may have this. Maybe it is a good idea to have a long backup TOT in the gateware which can be disabled by software.

73,

Steve
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