HL2 and CW Keyer Function

[rentwist]

Hi Steve and group,

Some time ago Steve responded to a post of mine asking questions about the CW/PTT key jack.  Turns out there is no keyer function in the HL2 gateware currently.

I as a 99% CW operator would love to see the CW Keyer function put back into the gateware so that an external keyer is not required for CW operation (other than with a straight key that is).  I have emailed Steve about this and he responded with a few pointers I asked about.  I do not know if I will be up to the task of finding the code for the OpenHPSDR CW Keyer and integrating it into control.v (the pointers Steve gave me) but am going to try (stay tuned for epic fail! ;-)

I am an EE but do play with SW a bit here and there.  Truly though a bit of terror immediately sets in when I look at the control.v file, hopefully that will subside ;-)  I am beginning the search for the OHPSDR code.  I think Radioberry may have and be using this code, I seem to recall that it does have keyer functionality currently.  Radioberry being a fork of the HL2, maybe this would be the most appropriate place to pull code from?

Also, in addition to socializing this (attempted) effort of mine, I wanted to ask how many CW ops there are among us who would find CW Keyer functionality a very welcome addition to the current HL2 features?  This would come at the expense of the PTT in pin I believe so that the two needed pins for a paddle to connect to would be available.  Unless that could be toggled somehow for other than CW use.

Thoughts, advice, suggestions, etc. all welcome!

73,

Robert, WA2T

[Terry Long]

Hi. I wonder if the keyer Mortty would work?

http://hamprojects.info/mortty/

Terry N8ab

[rentwist]

Maybe I'm all wet on this.  My memory on the Radioberry was not quite right.  Looks as though (I think) that in the cae of the Radioberry, the PiHPSDR app running on the RPi contains the CW Keyer functionality.  So maybe the way to do this is through the SDR SW that one runs to control the HL2?

[in3otd]

I don't have a Radioberry but looking at its source code I see there is a iambic.v file coming from Hermes and the corresponding module instantiated in radioberry.v; the keyer input comes from two FPGA pins connected to the KEY_DOT and KEY_DASH signals, so your memory was likely actually right, hi.

73 de Claudio, DK1CG / IN3OTD

[PA3GSB]

Claudio

You are right... radioberry is supporting CW.

More details:

https://github.com/pa3gsb/Radioberry-2.x/wiki/piHPSDR-running-CW-mode

73 Johan

PA3GSB

[James Ahlstrom]

Hello Robert,

When designing your keyer be sure to include a sidetone. Keying the HL2 from the key/PTT input jack works very well. Keying from the PC is subject to delays, and works only for slow CW. Similarly, generating the sidetone on the PC is subject to the same delays. If you want fast CW with an accurate sidetone, you may want to add a CW keyer board to the the HL2 box, and cut a hole for a speaker so you can play the sidetone.

Jim

N2ADR

[rentwist]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your reply.  Understand about CW via PC (or whatever controller function) would be problematic (and yes, I want fast CW).  I have played with a K3NG keyer running on a Arduino Nano and this is certainly doable.  The Mortty solution sounds like is it similar to or based on this.  But, I am hopeful (perhaps in blissful ignorance) that a FPGA based solution would be an (the) elegant solution.  HW is no problem for me, SW/Gateware, not so much.

Now, I understand from Johan Maas and Claudio that Radioberry does indeed have a keyer function built into the FPGA code via iambic.v  Does anyone have thoughts about what it would take to marry that to the HL2 gateware?  Since it appears to be a separate "module", is the idea of adding references to it (and including it) in some part of the HL2 code all it would take or is it much more complicated than this?  Probably the latter but I wanted to ask.

73,

Robert, WA2T

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Robert,

Jim's point about the sidetone is something that will require additional circuitry. The HL2 has no mechanism to generate a tone as the HL2 is designed to be put in a backroom somewhere and operated remotely. Pin 5 of DB1 does indicate CW key down and can be used to generate a sidetone, but it must be connected to additional circuitry if you want an audio tone. Alternately, you could generate a square wave tone directly from the FPGA, but still must connect to some sort of speaker and maybe a small amp. Given that you must already add circuitry, it may be easiest to go with a standalone complete keyer. I was under the impression that longtime CW users had their favorite keyer and would want to use that.

For you and others who may want to learn and start with Verilog, I recommend some online tutorials or video tutorials on YouTube. You can find many with Google. This site is popular:

http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html

I also highly recommend this site, as you can enter Verilog and run simulations without having to install any special software on your computer:

https://www.edaplayground.com/

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Takashi K]

Hi Robert,

I also love to CW. I added my original iambic keyer and sidetone function to HL1 as I did not have openHPSDR RTL such as Hermes at that time. After that I added the same functions to HL2. But I have not revised the firmware after Jan 2018. The keyer should run on HL2b5 or later even without audio codec, but no sidetone. If you add Hermes keyer function, I welcome it.

My git contents may be helpful.

https://github.com/ji1udd/Hermes-Lite/tree/6M

https://github.com/ji1udd/Hermes-Lite2/tree/CompactTRX

https://github.com/ji1udd/Hermes-Lite2/tree/CTRX_HL2b5

73,

Taka,  ji1udd

[rentwist]

 Hi Taka-san,

Thank you for your reply.  Now, here is the thing.  I have very little idea how to go about incorporating the keyer function into the current HL2B8 code.  On the other hand, you seem to have a fair amount of experience with this sort of endeavor!  Would you consider trying to do this?  Also, perhaps (as Steve was suggesting) a spare? FPGA IO pin could be programmed to provide a square wave sidetone output which could then be low pass filtered and amplified for a pleasing sidetone output.

What do you think?  I am afraid that this is probably far too big an undertaking for me to have any real chance of succeeding.  I would be happy to assist or even do all the work but I need guidance from someone with experience.

Having said all that, I will certainly look over the files you have linked to and try to further my education.

Thanks again and 73,

Robert, WA2T

[rentwist]

P.S.  I also have a Hardrock 50 w/ATU I bought (as a lightning strike basket case) which I have fully returned to proper operation.  I would also love to have that able to be controlled by the HL2.  I seem to recall that your HR50 interface work was referred to in a recent forum thread where another board member was endeavoring to interface his HL2 to an HR50.

[Graeme Jury]

I feel that the HL2 is set up pretty well at present and the issue of remote CW belongs elsewhere. The reason for my thinking this way is that you will become locked into a version of HL2 and the PC radio that supports it. The HL2 is already pretty tight for resource.  and there are other experiments to be done yetIn the future you may wish to try another radio or try out some new PC radio software and then you would lose your CW ability. I would consider running a cable from your HL2 location to your operating position for keying into the key jack on the HL2 and get yourself a keyer like the K3NG. If you want the flexibility of changing operating location you could try a pair of ESP8266 (ESP-01) with one as an access point/server and the other as a client connected to your keyer. I have not actually tried the ESP-01's but with a UDP stack I would think that the latency would be negligible. If you are wanting to operate really remotely as in over the internet then buffering with an allowance for at least 1 second of latency would be mandatory.

Have a serious consideration for the simple solution of a cable, I am using a pair from an ethernet cable with another pair available for keying. If RF interference is a concern then some cheap RG-58 would help.

73, Graeme ZL2APV

[Takashi K]

Hi Robert-san,

It will take a lot of time to implement keyer and other functions to the latest firmware.

If you can not implement them on your own, I recommend you to use my firmware, CTRX_HL2b5.

If audio codec is not included in your system, it will be a very halfway system.

By using the audio codec, you can listen to both receiver sound and sidetone with headphones without an external mixing amplifier.

The cost of the audio codec IC AK4951EN that I use is only $1.79 @ Digikey. It has both headphone amp and speaker amp. No other expensive parts are needed.

73

Taka,  ji1udd

[rentwist]

Thanks for your replies Taka and Graeme.  All points which are well taken.  I guess I am just stuck on the idea that most all transceivers these days have built in CW keyers.  But, through this thread I now have a number of viable options so thanks again for the inputs and suggestions.  I get that if say a keyer was implemented in the current gateware, it would be soon lost as new releases and experiments are performed.  I thought the function could be adopted going forward, I did not realize that the HL2 was already tight on resources.

So it might be fun to try Taka's code with the codec.  I could also use a Palm Mini paddle with Code Cube that I acquired a while back.  Or the K3NG keyer, etc.  I again was hung up on the CW Keyer function because I was thinking the means to implement it is right there in the radio already.  While this is true, apparently there are multiple reasons why the community does not see this function as essential and there are more important things to be done with the remaining resources.  Fair enough.

Thanks everyone for entertaining and participating in the discussion.

73,

Robert, WA2T 

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Robert,

Just to clarify a few points, the gateware was tight on resources about a year ago, but since the move to NCOs we do have a bit more room now. My vision for the HL2 and gateware is for a unit that is easily used from a remote location, and has nothing to tie it (wires, manual knobs, visual indicators) to use right in front of the operator. Even the existing 4 LEDs and PTT/CW jack don't sit well with me... But the HL2 is also an open and experimental platform. There is good work done by Taka and others. I'd love to see more gateware variants out there for people to use. Maybe Taka would be willing to add the ability for remote gateware update to his gateware. That way people can easily switch between different gateware versions.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Bob A. Booey]

Hi Steve,

But without a local CW Key jack, QRQ CW or even 20 WPM CW would not work so well, correct?

Unlike many these days, I view my radios from a CW-centric point of view.

I would hate for the HL2 to evolve into a “non-CW” rig!

73,

Robert

Sent from my iPhone

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[Bob A. Booey]

PS while I’m wishing, I wish the HL2 (and all rigs) had CW friendly, break-in, solid state T/R switching!

Sent from my iPhone

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[Steve Haynal]

Hi Robert and Group,

I gave up long ago trying to make everyone happy. When I did try, the Hermes-Lite quickly began feeling like another job, and I already have a day job involving hardware, gateware, software and sometimes unhappy customers! Even organizing group buys and providing help on this list is making this feel like a job. So, I often do just things I am interested in. Coherent receivers, the paper on SparSDR, a cleaner RX chain with more receivers, are the areas I am currently interested in. It is always a priority for me to make everything in this project open source. This allows others to extend and use the project in a direction that interests them.

73,

Steve

kf7o

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[rentwist]

Hi Steve and Group,

I get it.  I'm asking a lot of questions, particular to my interests in amateur radio and I do not have many answers to offer to those questions.  I am not expecting you or anyone to provide just the set of features I would like.  I am putting out there what interests me in the hopes of some things that come back (by way of others postings) will point me in a direction I can run with.

Thank you Steve, for all the you have done in creating the HL and for all that you continue to do.  I'll try to keep what you've said in mind so that at least for my part I will not contribute to making anything HL related feel like a job!

Have a great holiday all.

73,

Robert, WA2T

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[Takashi K]

Hi Robert-san,

I believe my firmware CTRX_HL2b5 meets all your requirements.

My firmware does not have the function of remote update, but I think that it is fine because your HL2 is used at your hand.

I can give you an extra audio codec PCB. Please let me know if necessary.

Although you can not connect it directly to HL2b5 or later with B2B connectors, you can use it by connecting with a jumper wire.

The AK4951 is a small part, so hand soldering is difficult. But I assembled two boards and both boards worked well. It would be nice if you or a friend near you could solder it ...

73,

Taka,  ji1udd

[rentwist]

Hi Taka-san,

Thanks so much!  I have emailed you directly to take this off forum.

73,

Robert, WA2T

[Takashi K]

Hi all,

I have uploaded some documents that I sent to Robert

to CTRX_HL2b5 branch on my git.
I hope they are useful to someone.

73

Taka,  ji1udd

[Christopher KB3CS]

It Seems To Me (nod to W3BE), sufficient CW capability for straight key and keyer operators (and perhaps also a controller) is provided by the following:

1. switch closures at the front panel input

2. PTT signaling at the rear panel output

Design statements for #1:

*  TRS jack connector on front panel

*  tip and sleeve contact causes dits to be emitted

*  ring and sleeve contact causes dahs to be emitted

*  tip + ring and sleeve contact causes T/R mode switch

*  change rate of keyed dits and dahs by TBD (default 20 wpm)

*  mono plug (or TRS plug with T+R wired together) used in front panel TRS jack provides for straight key operator and PTT for phone operator

*  TRS plug provides for keyer operator. Iambic keying logic is to be supplied external to HL2 by op.

Design statement for #2:

*  PTT output ("EXTTR" on N2ADR board) signal to be used by sidetone generator and to be supplied external to HL2 by op

those are my thoughts on the matter..

 - 41 (base 18) -

On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 12:28:07 PM UTC-4, Steve Haynal wrote:

Hi Robert and Group,

I gave up long ago trying to make everyone happy. When I did try, the Hermes-Lite quickly began feeling like another job, and I already have a day job involving hardware, gateware, software and sometimes unhappy customers! Even organizing group buys and providing help on this list is making this feel like a job. So, I often do just things I am interested in. Coherent receivers, the paper on SparSDR, a cleaner RX chain with more receivers, are the areas I am currently interested in. It is always a priority for me to make everything in this project open source. This allows others to extend and use the project in a direction that interests them.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[...]

[Bob A, Booey]

Chris,

There is no CW keyer present in the HL2B8 gateware.  So there goes #1.

However, Takashi has a version of HL2B5 gateware which implements a keyer and supports a codec for both sidetone and microphone (for voice and digital modes) local to the HL2.

Robert, WA2T

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[Christopher KB3CS]

i guess you've never run one of these exercises.. "so there goes #1" does not apply. the exercise is to define what should be, if such a thing is to be.

all or portion thereof ... as i understand it, Takashi's gateware also requires an additional board. does it take the place of the HL2-to-N2ADR jumper?

 - 3C (base 20) -

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 6:37:16 PM UTC-4, Bob A, Booey wrote:

Chris,

There is no CW keyer present in the HL2B8 gateware.  So there goes #1.

However, Takashi has a version of HL2B5 gateware which implements a keyer and supports a codec for both sidetone and microphone (for voice and digital modes) local to the HL2.

Robert, WA2T

[...]

[Steve Haynal]

Thanks Taka!

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Bob A, Booey]

Hi Chris,

Umm, exercise?  You lost me.

Lets stay on topic.  Can you explain the origins of your #1?  Reason being is it seems to have nothing to do with the HL2 as it exists today.

As for suggesting what should be (if that what your previous post was about, I am not sure), a "wouldn't it be nice if..." is great and I'd love to see a CW keyer as part of the HL2 gateware, but that does not seem to be a popular sentiment.

So, I will do what I want with what is available.  That is all.

Robert

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[Steve Haynal]

Hi Group,

As stated before, the reason there is no built-in keyer and local audio on the standard HL2 is because those break the design philosophy of being able to operate this radio remotely. I have no interest in compromising on that. However, I am interested in improving a remote CW experience. Graeme recently mentioned that CW operation of up to 10-15 wpm was tolerable remotely. We could use another port on the HL2 for asynchronous CW communication. This would be a message that is sent as soon as a dash or dot is requested. This would be from another small software program sending messages on that port. I don't mind adding a keyer to the gateware for this remote use. There would have to be a way to easily connect a keyer to a PC. I like this idea of hacking an old usb mouse from a thrift store:

https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/1256/using-a-morse-code-key-with-a-computer

Is there any interest in this, and anyone willing to setup the usb mouse side to test how fast would be possible?

73,

Steve

kf7o

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 5:46:52 PM UTC-7, Bob A, Booey wrote:

Hi Chris,

Umm, exercise?  You lost me.

Lets stay on topic.  Can you explain the origins of your #1?  Reason being is it seems to have nothing to do with the HL2 as it exists today.

As for suggesting what should be (if that what your previous post was about, I am not sure), a "wouldn't it be nice if..." is great and I'd love to see a CW keyer as part of the HL2 gateware, but that does not seem to be a popular sentiment.

So, I will do what I want with what is available.  That is all.

Robert

On 7/13/2019 7:19 PM, Christopher KB3CS wrote:

i guess you've never run one of these exercises.. "so there goes #1" does not apply. the exercise is to define what should be, if such a thing is to be.

all or portion thereof ... as i understand it, Takashi's gateware also requires an additional board. does it take the place of the HL2-to-N2ADR jumper?

 - 3C (base 20) -

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 6:37:16 PM UTC-4, Bob A, Booey wrote:

Chris,

There is no CW keyer present in the HL2B8 gateware.  So there goes #1.

However, Takashi has a version of HL2B5 gateware which implements a keyer and supports a codec for both sidetone and microphone (for voice and digital modes) local to the HL2.

Robert, WA2T

[...]

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[Takashi K]

Hi Steve,

Is another communication line needed for CW ??

But I have no request to remote CW.

Keyer on HL2 is optional. That's OK for me.

73,

Taka,  ji1udd

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Taka,

No additional communication line is required. This is a virtual port. https://www.networkworld.com/article/2343215/what-is-a-udp-port-.html

Yes, your fork with an optional keyer is great for those who want to be right in front of the HL2 during operation. This proposal is for people who want to work CW from another room. If it works well, it can also be used right in front of the HL2 so can solve both requirements.

73

[Alan Hopper]

Hi Steve,

it has long been on my list to see how well we can make remote morse work.  I'd certainly do some work at the pc end to test.

73 Alan M0NNB

[Alan Hopper]

Hi Steve,

In thinking more about cw we could have a sidetone generated on the pc, this would have to either replicate the gateware keyer or do part of the keying, all doable. Deciding what received audio to play is a problem as the duplex'd tx audio sent back is delayed so the pc ideally needs to know if an iq packet is the result of tx or rx so it can accurately mute the tx part, this would be useful for other modes as well.  

For testing you could just use a couple of bits in the existing cc packets.

73 Alan M0NNB

[Roger Critchlow]

The embedded/ directory in the https://github.com/recri/keyer repo has implementions of key/paddle input as MIDI note on/off events.  They are basically an Arduino that speaks MIDI over USB and a stereo jack for the key.  Most could be reprogrammed to produce HID events instead of MIDI if that would be more useful.  Using a key or a paddle is much less annoying than dealing with the typical travel on a mouse button or keyboard key.

The rest of the code in the repo implements keyers and other SDR/DSP stuff as JACK Audio components, though some implementations are certainly broken and there are a lot of legacy bits cluttering stuff up.  I have no idea how out of date the README might be.

The qrqcw channel on youtube, my only known user for several years, has some demo videos.  In this one he's futzing with the parameters for a keyboard keyer to see what makes 151WPM sound best:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE1xNeMc040&list=PLfFan4sDonOfYgekqoqcLClSBF1qwvM4o&index=29  A keyboard keyer JACK component is scanning ascii from a text window and generating MIDI events which are routed via JACK to a keyed oscillator JACK component.  The oscillator output samples are routed to the audio output device, the oscope, filters, and whatever other JACK components he has loaded.  I didn't see the JACK connection graph in that video, but it shows up in other videos.

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[Takashi K]

Hi Alan,

I think that  piHPSDR source code will be helpful.

73,

Taka,  ji1udd

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Roger,

Very interesting. Thanks for the links. I think the intent with the mouse was not to use the physical buttons on the mouse for CW, but to hack the mouse and electrically connect the two mouse buttons to dot and dash of a paddle. It is an inexpensive way to connect a key or paddle to your PC. It probably can't be used as a regular mouse afterwards.

73,

Steve

kf7o

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[Bob A, Booey]

I'm imagining a 3.5mm stereo jack added to a mouse in a place where it does not affect normal mouse operation.  If this is possible, the mouse should be able to be used both as a mouse and a paddle adapter.

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[Steve Haynal]

Hi All,

There is a YouTube video that compares 5 software-based cw keyers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgiHS2UC0JQ Some of these are open source, such as Morse Keyer and Roger's Keyer. It seems like MIDI, serial or mouse HID events are common ways to connect a paddle to the PC. The Morse Keyer page describes the mouse hack. You position the mouse pointer within a GUI square and then the buttons are the two paddle events. The idea is to modify some of these open source packages so that they send a UDP packet to a specific UDP port on the Hermes-Lite 2.0. This allows for the CW keyer software to run separately from the other radio software. It also allows for a lower latency path from software to Hermes-Lite 2.0 as the events can be sent immediately and be given priority processing on the HL2 end. I will look into modifying the HL2 gateware to support this.

Another option is to create a virtual serial port that translates serial output from these programs (usually setting and clearing one of the nondata sideband rs232 signals) and converting that to the correct UDP. This would allow interfacing to a wider set of programs. Com0com does this for Windows and includes unidirectional UDP. Ser2net is one way to do this on Linux.

Yet another option is to incorporate keyer code directly into SparkSDR or Quisk. Alan's idea to flag return data to suppress audio from the SDR during CW use is good. A local sidetone will feel like much less latench to the user.

All of the above depends on whether total latency, including over UDP, will be low enough so that serious CW operators are happy.

There are just too many projects to work on, but I hope to at least provide hooks for this in the HL2 gateware.

73,

Steve

kf7o

[Graeme Jury]

Hi Steve,

It is good to hear that there are just too many projects to work on, at least you will never go stale :-) I am very interested on the hooks that you are considering adding to the gateware and wonder if you have got to the point where you have a fair idea of what they will be? Possibly it will be something like a UDP server port which will be looking for an ascii "Dn" or "Up" or maybe a 1 or 0 to set the key state. I would be interested to know as soon as you set a protocol as I would be keen to build the other end and provide it as a supplementary keyer module to the group. I envisage a little stand alone unit which you plug your keyer into and it sends whatever you are expecting on the HL2, via wifi, to key it. Jim, Alan and now John may wish to add keying from a USB port to their PC radios too. It may be a good idea to also service the ptt signals so that effectively the HL2 keying jack is "remoted" if I can make a new word.

73, Graeme ZL2APV

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[in3otd]

Hello,
looking at the original Hermes and PowerSDR code, it seems that one could send CW via the PC keyboard using the CWX feature and also use a key/paddle connected to the PC serial port and have the dot/dash paddle data sent to the internal Hermes keyer using some bits in the TX audio data stream. I never used the original Hermes SDR so I don't know how well or bad this works but was wondering if it could make sense to simply port that code part to the Hermes-Lite (with an optional compile switch to exclude/include it maybe). Maybe this was discussed before and I missed the posts...

73 de Claudio, DK1CG / IN3OTD

[Steve Haynal]

Hi Claudio and Group,

Good point. I am adding back the iambic keyer (with some changes to reduce resource usage) and will connect it to behave exactly like other openhpsdr radios. We can see how well the CWX works. I may add an additional UDP packet decode on a different UDP port to have an alternate fast asynchronous path for a separate program to send dot or dash. There is no sidetone generate on the HL2, just the single bit output indicator, so this is mainly for remote CW operation.

I am also taking this opportunity to clean up the sequencing of TX on and off. I'll add an option to synchronize the TX on with the data coming out of the buffers (discussed with Alan) and also provide some indication of the buffer fill levels. It appears the longest delay is from the relay, ~6ms with bounces. So once in the mode where TX on is synchronized with IQ data reaching the DSP, software should always plan to enable PTT at least 7ms before real data.

73,

Steve

kf7o