[Hx] Images not appearing in Helix Client 8.0.3

[ROGER BILLCLIFFE rogerbil@mac.com]

I have a collection where images are displayed on records via a global user link. I have used it for 20 years in all versions of Rade, Engine and client server with no problems. I recently moved the folder which contains the images from my HDD to Dropbox and I had no problems in any Helix app. Suddenly clients of my server cannot display the images, returning ‘cannot create picture error -50, yet RADE on the same hdd as the server, functions normally.

The dropbox folder is available offline at all times (and functions normally with Rade) so what is happening with the server?

macOS Mojave, all Helix components 8.0.2

TIA

Roger


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[daniel@keganlaw.com daniel@keganlaw.com]

Semi-Blind GUESS.

Makes a difference how images are linked, and moving sosme things in the linkage can break display.
Internal to Helix not this problem v external yes potential problem.
Dropbox keeps its data in multiple places, at least your computer storage, and the dropbox server.
If Dropbox chanaged something that could be a cause, other causes also possible.

Daniel Kegan
ELAN Associates/ Greenlight
<dan...@keganlaw.com>

> On Dec 8, 2023, at 1:00 AM, Helix-L Discussion List <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:
>
> Helix-L Discussion List Digest #995
>
> 1) Images not appearing in Helix Client 8.0.3
> by "ROGER BILLCLIFFE roge...@mac.com" <Hel...@gibhenry.com>
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[ROGER BILLCLIFFE rogerbil@mac.com]

Thanks Daniel. I’m coming to think this is a Helix 8 problem.

I’ve done a bit more tinkering with the following results:

1 Rade 8 always displays the images whether they are stored in Dropbox folder or a normal HDD folder.

2 Server 8/client 8 does not display images from any collection, even though Rade displays them in the same collection. But when the collection was first converted from 7.0.4 everything displayed as normal whether in Rade or client

3 Reverting to a 7.0.4 collection produces expected results in either Rade or Client/server

Bad conversion - new bug?

Stuck

Roger

[Greg Morin gregmorin@me.com]

Not sure if this applies, but at some point Helix changed whereby the client has to have the same local access to the files as the server, eg if the images are on Server A and Server A is mounted on the Helix Server then Server A must also be mounted on every client as well (at least that is what we do to make our documents work)

Greg

[ROGER BILLCLIFFE rogerbil@mac.com]

Thanks Greg. Haven’t heard of this change but was it very recent? And how could it affect a set up which worked perfectly in both 7.0.4 and 8.0.2 and then suddenly stopped working in 8 without any physical changes software?

Perhaps I should describe my arrangements.

Helix Server and the collection is on my startup drive and a folder containing images is on another internal drive. One client is also running on the same drive as Helix Server, another is running on a machine in the same room on a wireless network; the third client is on a remote machine. All of this has worked without any hitch for at least ten years. A month ago I upgraded the collection to Helix 8 without any problems. I then transferred all of the images to a Dropbox folder, again without any changes to Helix performance. Ten days ago Helix server/Client 8 stopped displaying images in records – although RADE continued to display images in records. Helix 7.0.4 can display the mages normally wherever they are stored – Dropbox or local folder.

As a control I have recreated this setup on a remote machine – Helix 8 produces the same results, RADE ok, Server/Client does not display images.

As a further test I had opened a completely different collection in v8 on the remote machine. I normally work on the collection in RADE but in the past it has worked Client Server mode. In fact none of my existing collections using the same technique of selecting images via a Global Relation lookup will now work in Helix/Client 8. I have one collection where the images are embedded in the collection (2.6gb) and do not use the Global technique – Client 802 crashes when it attempts to connect to the Server so I cannot test it.

At the moment I cannot see any solution beyond returning to 7.0.4 - and with all of our seasonal stock added to the collection that's a body of work….And what happens when the Donut hybrid server is released if I cannot see any of the 1000s of images in my lifeline collection?

Roger

[daniel@keganlaw.com daniel@keganlaw.com]

Roger,     Sunday 10 December 2023

Independent of Helix, both the macOS and DropBox could make some of their own changes (“upgrades”) that

probably could interfere with an application’s (here Helix) operation. That’s one reason we are gifted with

so many hundredth-decimal upgrades.

Not clear to me why you want to use DropBox for your images.

If for backup, you could use DropBox for image backup of non-productioon duplicate images.

If for lack of storage space on a drive, perhaps buying a bigger drive might solve this immediate

problem and reduce your vulnerabilities.

How much space does your image file now take, how many images, how much has it grown over 

the the past year and two (to estimate the size you need to handle the next couple of years)?

This may have nothing to do with your images disappearing, but explaining why you are

using DropBox might help someone provide a knowledge-based diagnosis. 

Daniel Kegan *  <dan...@keganlaw.com>

ELAN Associates / GreenLight

Balanced Counsel for Smart Clients®

Kennett Square PA 19348-2323 USA

On Dec 10, 2023, at 1:00 AM, Helix-L Discussion List <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:

       Helix-L Discussion List Digest #997
1) Re: Images not appearing in Helix Client 8.0.3

   by "ROGER BILLCLIFFE roge...@mac.com" <Hel...@gibhenry.com>

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

From: "ROGER BILLCLIFFE roge...@mac.com" <Hel...@gibhenry.com>

Subject: Re: [Hx] Images not appearing in Helix Client 8.0.3

Date: December 9, 2023 at 2:58:22 AM EST

[Gary Cosimini garycosimini@mac.com]

Roger, Dropbox include the _client User name_ in the path to the file, and that is what Helix store when you enter a document. The path to a document is therefore different for each Dropbox client.

Macintosh HD:Users:gcosimin:Desktop:vita.jpg

Macintosh HD:Users:gcosimin:Desktop:

Macintosh HD:Users:gcosimin:Dropbox (Personal):vita.jpg

Macintosh HD:Users:gcosimin:Dropbox (Personal):

So while Dropbox works for you personally, Helix won’t be able to reconcile the path on other users’ computer.

Demo attached below.

Daniel Kegan’s suggestion is correct: get a larger disk drive and store images on the same system as the Helix Server. That way the paths will be consistent.

Gary

[ROGER BILLCLIFFE rogerbil@mac.com]

Daniel, Gary – I really appreciate your suggestions but I realise you’re looking for further information about my setup and reasons for using Dropbox – which has sort of become academic as Server 8 will now neither work with the dropbox folder of images nor the original folder.

The server and two clients are located in my office, and a remote client is running on my mac at home. The initial office setup:

My office computer is the server: the system starts up from an external SDD running 10.12.6, with helix Server, Rade and Client in the Applications folder. The folder used to store images when I was running 7.0.4 is on the Mac’s internal HDD; the Dropbox folder is on another external HDD. This office machine was my primary computer until, at age 78, I started to work primarily from home. When I was in the office I had easy access to the images folder on the internal HDD; these images are used for various other purposes than merely appearing in Helix records and when I transferred to working from home it became tedious and more slow and difficult to access this folder from a remote location. So I transferred all the images to Dropbox so that they were always immediately available on my home computer and at the same time changed the path in the Collection to direct abaci to the new source.

Also in the office a colleague has another iMac accessing Helix Server on the internal wifi network

This setup worked flawlessly under 7.0.4. When I upgraded to Helix 8 it continued to work as before, both on the local network and on my home client. When I transferred all of the images to a folder in my Dropbox folder (where they are permanently available off-line) it also continued to work under Server 8. Then, after about two weeks, suddenly without me making any changes to the Helix software the Clients were unable display images on Helix records. I had to assume that this was caused by some changes made by Dropbox – could Dropbox have made some invisible change to the path to the Dropbox folder?

I reverted to using the previous HDD folder but the Clients were now unable to display images at all, although Helix Rade8 was able to display the images from either the Dropbox folder of the HDD folder:reverting to 7.0.4 all elements of Helix software can display the images whether they are stored in a Finder folder or the Dropbox folder.

So the Change to Dropbox was to make home working easier for me – but now it has made it impossible to use Helix to display images unless I revert to 7.0.4

Gary I’m grateful for the collection you sent but I am a bit lost. Where do I put these different paths? Are they attached to each user’s login. If so how do I phrase the instruction to look on the Server’s Mac to find the images?

Thanks for all of your time and effort – I’m very grateful

Roger


> On 10 Dec 2023, at 18:00, Gary Cosimini garyco...@mac.com <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:
>
> <Dropbox Path Test.zip>

[ROGER BILLCLIFFE rogerbil@mac.com]

Hi Gary, Daniel

I’ve spent the last couple of hours experimenting with old collections (going back two years, long before I started to use Dropbox for storing images) in Helix 8. I have also created a folder of images on the same drive as the Helix applications.

The results are the same: Rade will display images correctly in all records. Server/Client 8 will not display images no matter where they are stored. The path entered in RADE that points to the images folder is: startup:users:RB:desktop:testpics:  my user account is RB.

I have made the same tests on various collections that use this User Global method of displaying an image. The results are the same Rade OK, Server client fails. I have loaded a different collection  that embeds images; this works OK with Server/Client, although the server crashes when the collection size exceeds 1gb - about 1000 records with 600 images – my office collection has over 9000 images in the relevant folder, no way that I could embed all these.

I have redownloaded and installed Server and Client from BGD, I have deleted Client preference files in the library (there were none for Server??). No change. 

So, it’s not the path, it's not the location of the images, it would appear not to be corrupted software on my machine. It’s not Dropbox as location of images folder makes no difference. I could try an different way for displaying the images without embedding them but I’ve forgotten how to do that

I hope this helps you – or any other watchers – to diagnose….

Many thanks

Roger

On 10 Dec 2023, at 18:00, Gary Cosimini garyco...@mac.com <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:

<Dropbox Path Test.zip>

On Dec 7, 2023, at 10:36 AM, ROGER BILLCLIFFE roge...@mac.com <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:

I have a collection where images are displayed on records via a global user link. I have used it for 20 years in all versions of Rade, Engine and client server with no problems. I recently moved the folder which contains the images from my HDD to Dropbox and I had no problems in any Helix app. Suddenly clients of my server cannot display the images, returning ‘cannot create picture error -50, yet RADE on the same hdd as the server, functions normally.

The dropbox folder is available offline at all times (and functions normally with Rade) so what is happening with the server?

macOS Mojave, all Helix components 8.0.2

TIA

Roger

[daniel@keganlaw.com daniel@keganlaw.com]

Roger,     Monday   11 December 2023

GORDIAN KNOT.

The cutting of the Gordian Knot is an Ancient Greek legend associated with Alexander the Great in Gordium in Phrygia, regarding a complex knot that tied an oxcart. Reputedly, whoever could untie it would be destined to rule all of Asia. In 333 BC Alexander was challenged to untie the knot. Instead of untangling it laboriously as expected, he dramatically cut through it with his sword, thus exercising another form of mental genius. It is thus used as a metaphor for a seemingly intractable problem which is solved by exercising an unexpectedly direct, novel, rule-bending, decisive, and simple approach that removes the perceived constraints. (Wiikipedia)

Consider removing a point of vulonerability, which seems to be DropBox.

And consider placing your major Helix physical location as  your home,

and the secondary one your increasingly less frequented office.

Consider a remote login from your office to your home server when you

need to do that.  TeamViewer, <https://www.teamviewer.com/en-us/> lets me

access my home Mac Mini High Sierra (running Helix RADE on 8.0.2) from out

of state when visiting grandkids. (Most other computer work is on M2 MacBook Pro, 

now on Sonoma 14.1.2.)

I used to run Helix server  when sharing data with coworkers, now a solo, so no need.

When my Intel Mac died, about 18 months ago, and I needed to replace with major Mac 

with current available, I looked into remote access, a couple of software choices seemed prominent.

Also needed a replacement Mac to run Helix, and found an older MacMini. Separate display

under $300.

I haven’t tested TeamExpress with Helix Client Server. Doing daily taska (computer and non)

is work enough without overloaded curiosity. BGD is working to build the needed pieces

for a freer and broader use of Helix. Doing the simplest things to patch the next

couple years is enough complexity for me.

Many solutions are obvious in retrospect. Maybe your current problem has something to do 

with DropBox, maybe not. Maybe its a bad cable or a bad microwave toaster. Unless

you soon find a solution keeping your current layout, forget it, eliminate that apparent

unnecessary complexity. After 65 we’re entitled to let go some of what we had been

used to, and just try to get the job done.

Daniel Kegan *  <dan...@keganlaw.com>

ELAN Associates / GreenLight

Balanced Counsel for Smart Clients®

Kennett Square PA 19348-2323 USA

<https://www.keganlaw.com/KeganLaw-Elan/Elan.html>

On Dec 11, 2023, at 1:00 AM, Helix-L Discussion List <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:

From: "ROGER BILLCLIFFE roge...@mac.com" <Hel...@gibhenry.com>

Subject: Re: [Hx] Images not appearing in Helix Client 8.0.3

Date: December 10, 2023 at 5:32:17 PM EST

Daniel, Gary – I really appreciate your suggestions but I realise you’re looking for further information about my setup and reasons for using Dropbox – which has sort of become academic as Server 8 will now neither work with the dropbox folder of images nor the original folder.

The server and two clients are located in my office, and a remote client is running on my mac at home. The initial office setup:

My office computer is the server: the system starts up from an external SDD running 10.12.6, with helix Server, Rade and Client in the Applications folder. The folder used to store images when I was running 7.0.4 is on the Mac’s internal HDD; the Dropbox folder is on another external HDD. This office machine was my primary computer until, at age 78, I started to work primarily from home. When I was in the office I had easy access to the images folder on the internal HDD; these images are used for various other purposes than merely appearing in Helix records and when I transferred to working from home it became tedious and more slow and difficult to access this folder from a remote location. So I transferred all the images to Dropbox so that they were always immediately available on my home computer and at the same time changed the path in the Collection to direct abaci to the new source.

Also in the office a colleague has another iMac accessing Helix Server on the internal wifi network

This setup worked flawlessly under 7.0.4. When I upgraded to Helix 8 it continued to work as before, both on the local network and on my home client. When I transferred all of the images to a folder in my Dropbox folder (where they are permanently available off-line)  it also continued to work under Server 8. Then, after about two weeks,  suddenly without me making any changes to the Helix software the Clients were unable display images on Helix records. I had to assume that this was caused by some changes made by Dropbox – could Dropbox have made some invisible change to the path to the Dropbox folder?

I reverted to using the previous HDD folder but the Clients were now unable to display images at all, although Helix Rade8 was able to display the images from either the Dropbox folder of the HDD folder:reverting to 7.0.4 all elements of Helix software can display the images whether they are stored in a Finder folder or the Dropbox folder.

So the Change to Dropbox was to make home working easier for me – but now it has made it impossible to use Helix to display images unless I revert to 7.0.4

Gary I’m grateful for the collection you sent but I am a bit lost. Where do I put these different paths? Are they attached to each user’s login. If so how do I phrase the instruction to look on the Server’s Mac to find the images? 

Thanks for all of your time and effort – I’m very grateful

Roger

On 10 Dec 2023, at 18:00, Gary Cosimini garyco...@mac.com <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:

<Dropbox Path Test.zip>

[daniel@keganlaw.com daniel@keganlaw.com]

Roger, Tuesday 12 December 2023

You’ve done a lot of testing. My pot-shot guesses are not an informed, systematic diagnosis.
So here’s another oddment guess. You have a big file. Helix Utility has a function (Rescale) to
increase the maximum file size, from the initial 4GB limit to 64GB.
I don’t know how Helix responds when the collection size is larger than the rescale setting.
An easy parameter to quickly check.

Perhaps it’s time to hire a sophisticated Helix consultant (not me).

Daniel Kegan
<dan...@keganlaw.com>

> On Dec 12, 2023, at 1:00 AM, Helix-L Discussion List <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:
> From: "ROGER BILLCLIFFE roge...@mac.com" <Hel...@gibhenry.com>
> Subject: Re: [Hx] Images not appearing in Helix Client 8.0.3

> Date: December 11, 2023 at 5:35:42 AM EST

>
> Hi Gary, Daniel
>
> I’ve spent the last couple of hours experimenting with old collections (going back two years, long before I started to use Dropbox for storing images) in Helix 8. I have also created a folder of images on the same drive as the Helix applications.
>
> The results are the same: Rade will display images correctly in all records. Server/Client 8 will not display images no matter where they are stored. The path entered in RADE that points to the images folder is: startup:users:RB:desktop:testpics: my user account is RB.
>
> I have made the same tests on various collections that use this User Global method of displaying an image. The results are the same Rade OK, Server client fails. I have loaded a different collection that embeds images; this works OK with Server/Client, although the server crashes when the collection size exceeds 1gb - about 1000 records with 600 images – my office collection has over 9000 images in the relevant folder, no way that I could embed all these.
>
> I have redownloaded and installed Server and Client from BGD, I have deleted Client preference files in the library (there were none for Server??). No change.
>
> So, it’s not the path, it's not the location of the images, it would appear not to be corrupted software on my machine. It’s not Dropbox as location of images folder makes no difference. I could try an different way for displaying the images without embedding them but I’ve forgotten how to do that
>
> I hope this helps you – or any other watchers – to diagnose….
>
> Many thanks
>
> Roger

[ROGER BILLCLIFFE rogerbil@mac.com]

Daniel
You’ve been very helpful - you’re a more sophisticated consultant than me. I can only tell you what is not happening but I have no clue as to why or how to resolve.

Thanks for all your help

Roger

[Wade Brezina wade@thewintrack.com]

Roger

You should contact Helix support for this. I know they are dealing with
issues related to display of pictures. I provided very specific code and
I know they are aware of exactly what is going on. Have not heard
anything in regards to where they are at with it just that they are
aware of the issues.

Wade

On 12/7/23 09:36, ROGER BILLCLIFFE roge...@mac.com wrote:
> I have a collection where images are displayed on records via a global user link. I have used it for 20 years in all versions of Rade, Engine and client server with no problems. I recently moved the folder which contains the images from my HDD to Dropbox and I had no problems in any Helix app. Suddenly clients of my server cannot display the images, returning ‘cannot create picture error -50, yet RADE on the same hdd as the server, functions normally.
>
> The dropbox folder is available offline at all times (and functions normally with Rade) so what is happening with the server?
>
> macOS Mojave, all Helix components 8.0.2
>
> TIA
>

[caretechusa@gmail.com caretechnew@gmail.com]

What is also possible is for you to use the Ubiquity network appliances that allow a VPN to be established easily so that your office mac can be on the same network as your laptop is from whatever or even using screenshare to control any mac two or more macs on older systems on your Home/Office network running whatever while your at your son’s etc etc.

It works for me.

Ray

On Dec 11, 2023, at 1:00 AM, Helix-L Discussion List <Hel...@gibhenry.com> wrote:

From: "ROGER BILLCLIFFE roge...@mac.com" <Hel...@gibhenry.com>

Subject: Re: [Hx] Images not appearing in Helix Client 8.0.3