T-962C reflow oven upstairs

[Eric Ose]

There is a IR reflow oven upstairs that someone should help get going. Someone mentioned to me there are some online videos about these models that explain some things that may not be ideal to bad with their setup depending on things.

If this was you mentioning those things please chime in. Here are the few notes I made, but I'm not sure if there are other considerations;

No bite washer on the grounding wire and it should have one.

They used masking tape inside and it needs to be swapped with kapton tape.

Make sure the firmware is up to date.

Eric Ose
azrobotambassador.com

[Ron Watkins]

I would be interested in that.

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Ron Watkins
602.743.5272

[Eric Ose]

Ron,

It sounds to me like you are leading this project if you want to learn. Sometimes it's as simple as picking a date and telling others who want to help to show up that night.

I'm interested in this tool. I am a bit too busy for the next 5 months.

-Eric Ose

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[Jaime Glasser]

For us ignorants what does an IR reflow oven do and what would it be used for in the lab? Thanks for ‘splaining....assuming that’s Infrared?

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[Jaime Glasser]

Ok

“IR Reflow Ovens. Radiation furnaces transfer energy in the form of infrared radiation. In the beginning, this technology was used to solder boards with SMD's. In current manufacturing, this technology has almost completely been replaced by convection ovens.”

Surface mounted components to printed circuit boards??? Hmmmmmm

How many would use this and where would we put it in the lab? It’s pretty big. But beginning to understand it’s usefulness.

Jaime Glasser

Instigating Art & Community

jaimeglasser.com

PO Box 5060

Mesa Arizona 85211

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[Dillon]

I have one and use it to reflow PCB's after stenciling them with soldier paste and placing components.

BTW JLCPCB is a cheap place to get PCB's and stencils made, but the people at OSHpark and OSHstencil do a lot of good work and deserve your business too.

Mine is refreshed with the alternative firmware. You might need to tweak the reflow profiles a little as it needed some work to get something approximating a good reflow profile but some of this was due to the better alternative firmware having profiles for the smaller ovens.

The oven smells terrible when in use until the masking tape is replaced with kapton. After removing it I recommend using a well ventilated area as it produces fumes from the evaporating solder flux in the solder paste.

Also might want to look into the mod for cold junction compensation. Basically adding a one-wire temperature sensor lets it measure the reflow temperature better. Its an easy mod and supported in the newer firmwares.

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[Ryan Mcdermott]

Does anybody know what’s wrong with it?  A real reflow oven would be so freaking cool!!!

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[Ron Watkins]

Im currently in Indiana for work but will be back this weekend. Ill check in this weekend.

I do have some SMD projects coming up, which is why the oven would be good project for me.

Ron

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Ron Watkins
602.743.5272

[Ron Watkins]

Im going to try and take a look at it this weekend. Ive watched several youtube videos, and have some SMD (JLPCB) projects in mind, so wouldn't mind getting my feet wet on this reflow oven.

If anyone has some experience with it (in general), im always open to having some teamwork.

Ron

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Ron Watkins
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[Eric Ose]

It's brand new and should work fine. I could have been more clear in my original post. Some things about the way these came from the factory could be improved, but this should work currently. Please feel free to check it out.

Ron good to hear. I'd love to see it get some use and learn how to use it as well.

-Eric Ose

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[Ron Watkins]

Ill have to see if anyone will be there to open the doors on Saturday or Sunday.

Ron

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Ron Watkins
602.743.5272

[Ron Watkins]

I have the Kapton tape, just looking for a time when someone will be there so I can take a look at the oven.

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 8:20 AM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Ron Watkins
602.743.5272

[Ryan Mcdermott]

I brought this down and tried to use it.  It uses 2900watts, which is well beyond what any 120/15a (what we appear to have all over the lab) circuit will provide.  We need more power to run this (very nice, very useful) machine.

Is there a 30a 120 circuit somewhere already wired up?

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[Robert Douglass]

This is now sitting on a table in the front of the lab. I pulled the 120v 15amp plug off of it because that was a major fire hazard. An appropriate circuit and plug is needed to get this working, but for now this has a parking ticket so that if there is not much interest- it can be disposed of. Feel free to permit it to your name

[usao]

I can get the proper plug for the unit once I know what the receptacle is that is available in the shop. This will need a 120V @ 30A outlet to meet the wattage requirements.

I would suggest an L5-30R outlet if available, if there is another 30A outlet available, just let me know the NEMA spec.

Ron

[usao]

Some other options are here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#/media/File:NEMA_simplified_pins.svg 

[David S Flores]

You need to work with Austin to set up a circuit to handle the 30A and with the proper plug.

[Ron Watkins]

Sure, I don't think I have met Austin, so I don't have any contact info.

Hoping he sees this and replies.

Ron

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 8:08 PM David S Flores <david.ser...@gmail.com> wrote:

You need to work with Austin to set up a circuit to handle the 30A and with the proper plug.

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Ron Watkins
602.743.5272

[Eric Ose]

Austin,

Ron Watkins is asking for help setting up a 30A power for the IR Reflow oven. Can you follow up please?

-Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Southwest Maker Fest President

Please keep in mind that I am no longer a board member of HeatSync Labs and messages related to HeatSync should be sent to bo...@heatsynclabs.org or to the online discussion group. 

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[Austin Kipp]

Hi Ron,

What is the proposed permanent location for this oven? Is this a loaner tool or a tool that Heatsync now owns? If it's a Heatsync tool I will buy the oven side plug, But if its a loaner tool you will have to buy the plug or I will need to get approval to repair an incoming loaner tool. Unfortunately we have been burned one too many times. where we fix an incoming loaner tool just to have if taken back days after we paid to repair it. Let me know. You can email me directly at Aus...@netblues.org or Call-me @ |*480*|*694*|*3545*|.

Thanks,

Austin Kipp

[Ron Watkins]

Just checking back in to see if there is any update.

Ron

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 9:55 AM Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Ron Watkins
602.743.5272

[Jaime Glasser]

Hi Ron,

Where do you propose to put the oven? It’s pretty big and since requires dedicated wiring etc I there enough support for that? As always space is a premium and I think initially this was put on a table or workbench that can not be the permanent place. Who would use it? Can you please let us not familiar with it understand what it does and how it operates? Does it need also a dedicated exhaust? Special training? Is it dangerous to operate or produce waste? How is the heat dissipated? Does it need gas cylinders? I am really interested to know more about it.

Are you a member of HSL?

Thank you so much! Maybe Eric or David can explain ? It seems like it has your support and you may use it?

On Nov 5, 2019, at 12:51 PM, Ron Watkins <rwa...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Short Tie]

I would think the most logical place to put this would be with the other electronics and soldering stuff, but that may not be the best for power and general accessibility. I am thinking that the electronics champion should have a say on whether this is installed or not.

People either assembling circuit boards, or disassembling them would be the people that used it. It makes it so that you can solder / desolder the components on a PCB all at once, rather than one part at a time. Greatly speeds up assembly time, especially if you can get a pick and place to put components on.

It is a infrared oven essentially, so it uses infrared light to heat up the contents. According to things online (I haven't seen this model in person) the oven can be programmed to follow a set curve like a kiln. It looks like it can cycle in 8-10 minutes, so not really long cook times. The units online look like they are self contained, and I don't see a need for other gas / cylinders. In theory, on the flux in the solder paste would be burning off, so I don't think there is a need for external ventilation. There is probably a learning curve to get the oven set right (proper heat curve, etc) so training probably wouldn't hurt, though probably isn't a long training.

I am sure that such a thing could be abused/used in many other ways, which may or may not be desirable. Solder melts at over 650 F so it does get warm. Putting stuff in there that isn't meant for that heat could cause issues with the device and catch fire.

[Jaime Glasser]

Thank you for that explaination!

I agree, next to the microprocessor area looks like a great location and I think as David Flores pointed out it would be easy to drop the needed electric outlet there . Especially once the work is done to enclose the woodshop . Right now is just a cabinet with the laptops on the top which could be easily moved.

Thank you I appreciate the understanding. Do you think this is something that would need certification or an intro class?

Jaime Glasser

Instigating Art & Community

jaimeglasser.com

PO Box 5060

Mesa Arizona 85211

480-694-3049

jme...@gmail.com

On Nov 7, 2019, at 2:40 PM, Short Tie <ties...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Eric Ose]

Jaime,

Yes this will require certification or checkout. Not sure how much training is involved until I learn more.

-Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Southwest Maker Fest President

Please keep in mind that I am no longer a board member of HeatSync Labs and messages related to HeatSync should be sent to bo...@heatsynclabs.org or to the online discussion group. 

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[Patrick McFarland]

I would be very much interested in using this. Happy to help set it up, including the grounding wire fix, kapton tape and new firmware.

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[Mike Wolfson]

ALTERNATIVE OPINION:
Do we really need this?  I saw this on the table when it was brought in, and it is quite large.

I don't think it will get used often, so this will just take up a ton of space, and require additional power, etc.  I don't think we do a lot of PCB board fabrication and think we could do better things with HSL resources.

Before we install it, I would request a proposal about the plan to install it, and where we will put it, etc.  Then as a lab we can determine the best way to move forward.

-Mike Wolfson

I am not trolling or being negative, but would like us to think about implementation details before we permanently install that big thing into our space.

[Ron Watkins]

I was already working on getting the Kapton tape and new power cord for the 30A required supply, but was waiting on the L630R to be installed.

I will just hold off until a decision is made.

Ron

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602.743.5272

[Mike Wolfson]

To be clear, there isn't a decision proposed at this time, and HSL is a "doacracy"

I don't want to stop progress, but do want to tap the brakes a bit so we are thoughtful.

-Mike

Ron do you want to write a proposal?  It is as simple as sending something to the group, and then showing up at Hack Your Hackerspace to discuss it. 

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[Ron Watkins]

Yes, I understand. We started working on this in early Oct. I haven't done anything yet other than gather the parts. I have just been waiting on the 30A circuit to be installed.

Ron

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Ron Watkins
602.743.5272

[Ryan Mcdermott]

Just throwing this out there: if you guys end up deciding you don't want this, I would love to put in my name as somebody to take it off your hands for you!

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[Ron Watkins]

I was planning on using this also and already invested in the kapton tape and the new L6-30P and 10-guage cord.

Im just waiting to hear back regarding the L6-30R.

Ron

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Ron Watkins
602.743.5272

[Patrick McFarland]

Same here! My office is already prewired for this and we have a nice spot available for it next to the CNC Mill and Bandsaw. Happy to let others share and use as needed.

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Pupster

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[Short Tie]

Noticed that this came up in the HYH, in addition to the discussion here. The lab has a number of tools that the average person doesn't use very often, yet we keep it busy as a community - the mill, lathe, welding tools, etc. I agree that this should come up as a community discussion, and a vote, but the questioning of the value is a bit misplaced.

The electronics section down at the lab doesn't seem to get as much use as the metal shop, but the tools we have there are currently already easily accessible to the average interested party. Something like the reflow oven would move the setup more toward tools that aren't as easily accessible to the average user, and could easily drive interest like the mill and lathe currently do. I would even suggest that maybe part of the current electronics area could be sacrificed to hold this new piece of equipment, if the area in the lab is at that level of premium. IMHO, this kind of tooling is what a hackerspace is for.

tie short

[Eric Wood]

The reflow oven was discussed briefly during HYH last night.  The people in attendance agreed that creation of a dedicated 30A circuit for the reflow oven should be a proposal.  Ideally the proposal would identify a tool champion a specific location for the oven.  The location shouldn’t interfere with the proposed woodshop area.

I like the idea of having this tool available in the lab and hope somebody picks this up.

[Eric Ose]

For clarity what would a person who wants to champion this tool/station have to do to get wiring installed? Asking for others who may do this. I'm already handling some other things at the moment.

-Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Southwest Maker Fest President

Please keep in mind that I am no longer a board member of HeatSync Labs and messages related to HeatSync should be sent to bo...@heatsynclabs.org or to the online discussion group. 

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[Ron Watkins]

As I had discussed some time ago, I already purchased the Kapton tape and the 10-guage cord with the L530P connector for this. I have just been waiting for the 30A circuit to be installed. Ill be happy to take on this tool as already discussed with Eric.

Ron

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[Mike Wolfson]

Ron, if you can champion getting the 30A circuit installed, that sounds like what needs to be done.

That is obviously a bit more challenging, but not impossible, with a little championing to get it done.  

As I see it, finding a place for it (not hard) and getting electrical for it (slightly harder) are the 2 stumbling blocks.

-Mike

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[Ron Watkins]

I don't think space is a big issue here, since it doesn't need to have a reserved space, but could be stored and brought out and plugged in as needed using existing desks.

As for the power, im not qualified to install a 30A circuit (not an electrician), but I was discussing with another member regarding installation of the L530R somewhere in the lab.

I believe all that we need is a 30A breaker, cabling, a box and L530R to be mounted on the wall somewhere.

If cost is an issue, im happy to help out but can't cover the full costs myself.

Ron

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[Eric Wood]

My impression from the discussion at HYH was that the proposal would be for "the lab" to install the necessary electrical.  I suspect Austin would coordinate that.

I believe finding a location is the greatest concern.  This is based on my interpretation of what others have said.  The idea that the tool can be stored when not in use is problematic.  We have learned that we can no longer store items in the area above the kitchen and machine shops so everything pretty much needs to fit downstairs.  In the past some members have had creative ideas how we could fit more stuff into existing space but that is probably a separate topic.

The proposal should identify the tool champion and location.  If a donation has been identified to fund the wiring - fantastic.  I think that will improve the proposal's chance of success.  Since storage when not in use really isn't an option I think some sort of rack/furniture solution that provides spaced for the tool while retaining existing work space might be popular.  I think this would be a great tool and know that we have lots of creative minds out there that will come up with a great solution.

[Ron Watkins]

Why not have it on a wall mount shelf, where it can be pulled-down and used as needed.

Ron

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602.743.5272

[Jaime Glasser]

Ron,

Stations need a champion: one person, I assume a member, (and probably a cardholder who could access the station at any time) , to be responsible, come up with certification or at least best practices as needed, keep equiptment in good repair, check issues, get supplies etc , and is generally knowledgeable of uses and can provide instruction and guidance and teach others to do the same.

This is pretty big and heavy, I don’t think it would be practical to move it on and off a shelf or have such a big shelf....maybe under a work surface? But it’s very big. 

I think a proposal is being sought and a champion designated in order to be responsible for it as I assume unsafe use could result in harm, and physical changes must be made to accommodate it including a dedicated electrical circuit and associated costs.

(for example many people  have asked for a kiln but no one has ever stepped  forward to take charge etc and ask for the physical accommodations) but clearly here there may be more members who would as. It seems to have support.

This request for a champion to make this happen and take responsibility is reasonable given the general policies and community spirit of HSL and in order to be sure the community finds it valuable and will be used and can fill a need that may not exist now.

Cheers

Jaime

Jaime Glasser

PO Box 5060

Mesa, Arizona 85211

480-694-3049

jme...@gmail.com

jaimeglasser.com

On Nov 16, 2019, at 9:23 AM, Ron Watkins <rwa...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Samuel Humpherys]

I have an immediate use for the reflow oven and would be happy to help get it setup and maintained. Unfortunately I can't afford membership at this time to permit me card access, but I would love to assist whoever is able to do it. 

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[Eric Ose]

A few corrections to what Jaime said.

 

Stations need a champion: one person...

or multiple people as champions like we do for the Laser Station, Bio Lab, or 3d printer station

...I assume a member, (and probably a cardholder who could access the station at any time) , to be responsible...

We have never required people to be members to champion a station.

 

This is pretty big and heavy, I don’t think it would be practical to move it on and off a shelf or have such a big shelf....maybe under a work surface? But it’s very big.

People have done this kind of soldering by using an electric griddle in the lab. It is much more reasonable to have this on a shelf than not at all. Though there may be other solutions for storage.

-Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Southwest Maker Fest President

Please keep in mind that I am no longer a board member of HeatSync Labs and messages related to HeatSync should be sent to bo...@heatsynclabs.org or to the online discussion group. 

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[Jaime Glasser]

Thank you Eric! I did not mean at all to sound negative and apologize if I did. I have learned about reflow ovens and this is what is so wonderful about HSL to offer access to something unavailable elsewhere to make things themselves, and for others of us to learn how things are made and potentially apply new materials/processes ourselves.

On Nov 16, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Eric Ose <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mike Wolfson]

I don't think anybody is negative about the reflow oven, just trying to get it either installed or moved out.

Because our square footage is suddenly smaller than we expected, it's imperative that we use our space wisely. 

A hooked up reflow oven could be really cool and I would be happy to support that, a non-working one is a negative. We can't store stuff. 

Mike

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