Re: [HSL] Taser Proofing

[Will Bradley]

I wonder how much it'd cost / how effective it would be to use conductive fabric? Your wet innards are pretty good conductors though... Chain mail?

On Jan 9, 2013 7:48 AM, <jay...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Recently visited the lab for the first time after much procrastinating and was given a wonderful tour/ideology lesson from Jacob Rosenthal. I'm excited to be part of a group of expressive creators and was wondering what advice anyone might be able to offer on TaserProof apparel. First proto will likely be styled after the traditional Navy pea coat as it is awesome, and I was in the navy... plus wool is super flame retardant, which may prove important. Preliminary ideas include laser cutting two layers of wool, as well as a layer of thin aluminum mesh to be sandwiched between the wool in order to short out taser darts. If you have advice, ideas, or just think this is cool, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks

J. Fox   

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[Corey Renner]

If you Google "Taser ineffective clothing", you'll see that Tasers have the most trouble against thick and baggy clothing, so that's probably the place to start.  Keep in mind that Tasers are used to avoid having to shoot people for real.  So, if you succeed in defeating a Taser, you are likely to get shot for your efforts.

cheers,

c

[Jerry Davis]

yeah. the first thing I thought of was, oh boy criminal types would
really like this

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[Austin Appel]

Looks like I already have anti-taser clothing!  https://www.google.com/search?q=north+face+nuptua

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[Ryan Mcdermott]

Criminal types, or perhaps free speech advocates, or perhaps people who don't want to get violently assaulted by the police.

Here's a video of a couple of peace officers tasering a woman nearly to death because she didn't want them to look in her purse.  (She went into cardiac arrest)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMbFy8u-wUw

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[jay...@gmail.com]

Thick baggy clothing is sometimes effective because the darts get caught up in the fabric and never make contact with the skin. I'm not trying to prevent the darts but to neutralize their ability to shock you. Hopefully a layer of mesh will accomplish this. I realize it will attract some criminals but everybody should be able to protect themselves from overzealous police.

[Ryan Mcdermott]

Do you know if shorting the leads on a taser actually causes it to fail?

[Jasper Nance]

How could it not? 

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Creative and Scientific Imagery
http://www.nebarnix.com/

[Corey Renner]

I agree with you, but... In the video that Ryan just posted, did you see how genuinely terrified the cops acted when confronted by a friendly, 50yr old woman fleeing from them?

What will those same overzealous police do when they think that they've encountered some kind of taser-immune super-mutant.  I'm guessing that it ends with holes in the super-mutant.

Hoping I'm wrong, don't think I am.

c

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:29 PM, <jay...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thick baggy clothing is sometimes effective because the darts get caught up in the fabric and never make contact with the skin. I'm not trying to prevent the darts but to neutralize  their ability to shock you. Hopefully a layer of mesh will accomplish this. I realize it will attract some criminals but everybody should be able to protect themselves from overzealous police.

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[Bob Bushman]

You can always lay on the ground and jerk around
like you're being tased, even if you have the
short circuit suit on. :)

Or, if it makes it more palatable, think of it as
being prepared against an outbreak of muggings by
thugs with tasers.

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[Aaron Hicks]

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Corey Renner <vand...@gmail.com> wrote:

What will those same overzealous police do when they think that they've encountered some kind of taser-immune super-mutant.  I'm guessing that it ends with holes in the super-mutant.

The TASER is not infallible; I'm sure there's a police protocol for that sort of thing. Here's one discussion, along with video in the first link:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/law-enforcement-military-homeland-security-discussion/106182-leo-taser-failure-video-gunshots.html

Also note the "drive stun" is an option, and contact with the crotch and extremities is an option. Most police would understand trying to drive stun through a piece of heavy clothing is not optimal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSTMoJtOWCc

Patents have already been applied for this sort of thing:

http://www.geekologie.com/2007/11/man-files-patent-for-taserproo.php

Fabrics that are electrically conductive are already available; aluminum mesh may be overdoing it. Oxidation of aluminum- particularly when layered within clothing, unobserved- may be undesirable.

http://www.swift-textile.com/index1.htm

-AJ

[Harry Meier]

Lots of e-textile how-to blogs out there now. There are some yarns and thread with silver or stainless steel filament interwoven. People use them to knit gloves that you can use to still touch your capacitive touchscreen in the cold. Those could get expensive if you were knitting or weaving a whole garment though.

Some of the same fabrics for EMF shielding clothing may work too. http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html 

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[Jacob Rosenthal]

Want johnny knoxville video of you testing it when you're done :)

[Ryan Mcdermott]

"Shorting" the leads isn't really a short, it' just less resistance than a human.

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[Jasper Nance]

Many taser designs rely on huge multistaged charge pumps. They can't charge at all if the load is great enough. if you can present a low enough impedance it should discharge all of the caps and keep the voltage from climbing back up again. Not only is it then a current shunt away from the human, but actually keeps the whole device from operating.

[Jasper Nance]

FYI that is the definition of short as there is no such thing as a zero resistance in this capacity.

[Ryan Mcdermott]

So would it destroy the device, or just render it unusable?  (Because the charge pumps can't charge)?

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[Jasper Nance]

A badly designed device might be destroyed but I am certain the expensive ones that the cops used have current limiting. That same current limiting would keep the caps from charging as designed. It would be possible to also limit the output current and thus keep operating under shorted conditions....

 

Can we just get our hands on a real cop taser already?!?!?!

[jay...@gmail.com]

Apparently, the most commonly issued police taser is the Taser X26... which I saw online for about 900$. So... I'm not sure I'll be able to do any experimenting/research/design work with the genuine article. However, I don't think my local law enforcement would turn down the chance to test it out. Some of you believe that being taserproof may cause an officer to draw his gun when the taser fails. As someone that used to train and work with the police department in Brunswick, Maine, I would have to disagree. There are strict guidelines that must be followed by officers in order to justify the use of deadly force, and a person has to meet most of them before the gun is supposed to be drawn. Using a taser implies the officer is aware that he is not in mortal danger, simply trying to limit injury to himself or others. I think it would be far more likely for an officer to pull out either his OC spray, or collapsible steel baton. Both are pretty bad, and in my opinion more painful than being tased, but are far less likely to cause cardiac arrest.

[John Norman]

Here's a video that shows what the darts look like on impact:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dvkJi7MJvU

If you're into first aid or EMS, this guy's clinical videos are awesome. Don't watch the one on treating priapism if you're squeamish.

Arclight

[Corey Renner]

Taser gives demos at Cabelas occasionally.  They shoot the darts into a metallic mylar film which sparks impressively but doesn't seem to affect the device.

cheers,

c

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[jay...@gmail.com]

A Taser demo at a public event sounds like a great place to shoot a video for a kickstarter campaign. Hopefully I'll get there soon, preferably in a taserproof pinstripe blazer. I see a youtube  video of myself being shot with a TaserX26 by the company rep while remaining standing and smiling, then saying "those darts fucking sting man!" Sounds like a better ad campaign then Nike's "Just do it." 

"Attire for the subversive counterculture"

[Austin Appel]

You guys all know that Taser has a big office and manufacturing building in Scottsdale, right?  I know someone higher-up there if you wanted to know something, but they shouldn't be that hard to ask.  They do demos up there all the time and will likely offer to shock you if you ask them.

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[jay...@gmail.com]

That would be great! My only concern is that they may not want to provide any information that would help defeat their product, if only for intellectual property reasons. Have little doubt they would happily tase me though, I mean who doesn't want to tase someone that literally asks for it.