Proposal: buy an ultimaker 2

[Jasper Nance]

The ultimaker 2 is one of the most accurate 3D printers on the market and can print at 0.02mm layer height which is insane (20 microns). Pretty much all of the weak points of the ultimaker 1 have been addressed and corrected (mostly meaning wood -> metal construction means no warping and constant adjusting)

It costs $2499 which is really expensive. This is due to the fact that it is a Danish machine and the Euro is stronger than the US Dollar. 

To offset this cost and to undercut the price point of the makerbot rep2, I will put forward $500 towards its purchase. 

This means HSL will need to spend $2,000 on one of the best printers available. 

Pros: This thing runs marlin, which is open source (which means we can add e-stop buttons and recompile the firmware). 

Cons: it has the same bed size we are used to instead of the longer rep2 bed which can print slightly longer parts. The ultimaker 2 extended is 4 inches larger (cubic foot) but costs $3000 which is too much. 

Website

https://ultimaker.com/en/products/ultimaker-2-family

--

----------------------------------------------
Jasper Nance - KE7PHI
Creative and Scientific Imagery
http://www.nebarnix.com/

[Ryan Mcdermott]

I approve of this.

Stipulation: this printer is NOT for hacking on.  Or at least, the same hacking on rules as the laser.

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[Larry Campbell]

I concur on both points... I believe it is very important to our image to have a 3d printer that is nearly always functional so that when John Q Public walks in and asks if we do we can proudly state "yes, we DO" 

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[Jasper Nance]

Here here!

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[Eric Ose]

I <3 open source ++ for the Ultimaker 2.

Eric Ose
azrobotambassador.com

[david farmer]

i met some of the guys at ultimaker yesterday, i asked them how the hot end was improved, they said it worked about the same. still looks like a good easy to use printer for any regular lab members, but its still going to be the same struggle to teach walk of the street people how to use it.

[david farmer]

there is also the smaller one too for about $1500. those wont be available till april though.

[Larry Campbell]

Having a little bit of mystery to explain about the 3d printing is ok... as long as the machine is reliable. it was terribly frustrating sitting down to demo cura and the printer for someone who wanted to print something and have it plugged badly or have it totally bugger up a print a half inch into the job

On Friday, January 9, 2015 at 12:44:27 PM UTC-7, david farmer wrote:

there is also the smaller one too for about $1500. those wont be available till april though.

[david farmer]

welcome to 3d printing!

[Larry Campbell]

The point being that the high profile nature of the machine and its functionality impacts upon our reputation.

 "Im new to the lab I heard you have 3d printers, I have a thing/file/etc I wanted printed" is something I have heard several dozen people say.

Replying with "yea but its broke" when there are over a dozen people that are around the lab who are proficient in the building and maintaining of printers is hard to explain.... 

I have tried to compare it to an old dodge dart.... saying that it was an older printer that the odometer has turned over a few times and the engine has been replaced more than once however its been used soooo much that its at the point it need to be taken apart and completely restored properly or its gonna be unreliable as an old car that might or might not make it back from the grocery store 

[Jasper Nance]

I don't think 3D printing has to be so unreliable. My solidoodle (a cheap $600 printer) is up and running almost always. You would be surprised at how much improvement you see going between laser cut wood to metal chassis. It removes sooo many problems. 

I just realized the ultimaker 2 has a heated bed but the makerbot rep 2 doesn't. That right there is huge and allows way better print performance. I know I was skeptical when David first put a heated bed on the ultimaker, but hairspray on heated glass is amazing and makes life SO easy.  

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[david farmer]

thats a good point with the heated bed. i also like that they got rid of the wood, and have made the extruder easier to load. the user interface is better now as well.

Theres a big difference though between your printer and the labs printer, after a while you figured out all the kinks and can fix it on the fly, even without thinking about it. its going to be really difficult to find a printer that anyone can just walk in and use right away without knowing any tricks. its also going to be hard to find one that can handle the abuse that we throw at it.

With my printer i can get a good print nearly 100% of the time, but if i brought it into the lab to use, i guarantee that that rate would be very low for people using it in the lab.

[Joe Modjeski]

3d printers are just not "point click print". By calling them printers the expectation is they are as reliable as an inkjet or laser.

As important as having a reliable printer we need a way to set expectations.

Yes we have a 3d printer; yes it's free to use; no, most likely your model won't print the first time. Are you here to learn about 3d printing or do you just want a model printed?

If all they want is a model printed. Direct them to shapeways or another service.

Maybe an explanation that this is "consumer-alpha" technology. More like a model-t than a Dodge Dart.

Also, if the print is attempted and fails. Recommend they come down for 3d printing night. Bring the "trophy" to learn why it may have failed, and more importantly how to fix the problem.


Sent from my iPhone

[Eric Ose]

Joe referring to shapeways is a good idea. Not that we would do that in a way that suggests they can't try and make their prints work, but to get something made without having to spend time with failed prints.

-Eric Ose
Robot Ambassador

[Larry Campbell]

Problem is that people walking in off the street that I have spoken to are often too impatient or wanting to not have to spend too much to want to use a printing service most seem understanding that the act of printing with plastic is not exactly like turning on a faucet and perfect objects fall out.....its the "it is still broken"  that is the issue ..that printer just was not designed to hold up to all the use and abuse was given... the replacement should be CLEARLY labeled as no touchy touch other than changing settings w,x,y,z......do not alter the machine, see david or so and so if it didnt print and have a camera on it so we can make sure some kid doesnt take a screwdriver to it like we had happen multiple times the year before....

 it Ill admit In the last many months I try to avoid the conversations regarding the printer.... if say take the old one apart and go through it from head to toe and make it the "ok to hack this one" printer"

 



On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 12:59:04 AM UTC-7, Eric Ose wrote:

Joe referring to shapeways is a good idea. Not that we would do that in a way that suggests they can't try and make their prints work, but to get something made without having to spend time with failed prints.

-Eric Ose
Robot Ambassador

3d printers are just not "point click print".  By calling them printers the expectation is they are as reliable as an inkjet or laser.

As important as having a reliable printer we need a way to set expectations.

Yes we have a 3d printer; yes it's free to use;  no, most likely your model won't print the first time.  Are you here to learn about 3d printing or do you just want a model printed?

If all they want is a model printed.  Direct them to shapeways or another service.

Maybe an explanation that this is "consumer-alpha" technology.  More like a model-t than a Dodge Dart.

Also, if the print is attempted and fails.  Recommend they come down for 3d printing night.  Bring the "trophy" to learn why it may have failed, and more importantly how to fix the problem.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 11, 2015, at 3:06 PM, david farmer <azdavi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> thats a good point with the heated bed. i also like that they got rid of the wood, and have made the extruder easier to load. the user interface is better now as well.
>
> Theres a big difference though between your printer and the labs printer, after a while you figured out all the kinks and can fix it on the fly, even without thinking about it. its going to be really difficult to find a printer that anyone can just walk in and use right away without knowing any tricks. its also going to be hard to find one that can handle the abuse that we throw at it.
>
> With my printer i can get a good print nearly 100% of the time, but if i brought it into the lab to use, i guarantee that that rate would be very low for people using it in the lab.
>
> --
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[Vivie Truong]

Jasper, is the Ultimaker 2 Extended too expensive because HSL would have to pay an extra $500, or because the increase in size is not worth an extra $500?

 - V T

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[Boots]

I like the idea of having two. One that is a "no touchy touchy" production unit and the old one that people can play with and learn on... Of course it will still end up broken and then we will only have the one until someone actually reboots it again. :/ 

 Everyone keeps saying that the laser cut wood frame creates many of the problems. If we did rebuild the old one, would we want to upgrade it to a mill cut aluminum frame instead of the wood?

[Ryan Mcdermott]

Hmm, we could water jet it out of Aluminum at Local Motors.

Corey?

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Boots <jdpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I like the idea of having two. One that is a "no touchy touchy" production unit and the old one that people can play with and learn on... Of course it will still end up broken and then we will only have the one until someone actually reboots it again. :/ 

 Everyone keeps saying that the laser cut wood frame creates many of the problems. If we did rebuild the old one, would we want to upgrade it to a mill cut aluminum frame instead of the wood?

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[Corey Renner]

If you guys would like to waterjet a new aluminum frame for the Ultimaker, you can do it here.  Just bring an appropriate sheet of aluminum and a DXF file to cut (preferably scaled to inches).

cheers,

c

Blog, not recently updated.  Don't judge me, worry about your own business.

http://coreyrenner.tumblr.com/

 

YouTube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/vandal968

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Boots <jdpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I like the idea of having two. One that is a "no touchy touchy" production unit and the old one that people can play with and learn on... Of course it will still end up broken and then we will only have the one until someone actually reboots it again. :/

Everyone keeps saying that the laser cut wood frame creates many of the problems. If we did rebuild the old one, would we want to upgrade it to a mill cut aluminum frame instead of the wood?

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 9:30:38 AM UTC-7, Larry Campbell wrote:

Problem is that people walking in off the street that I have spoken to are often too impatient or wanting to not have to spend too much to want to use a printing service most seem understanding that the act of printing with plastic is not exactly like turning on a faucet and perfect objects fall out.....its the "it is still broken"  that is the issue ..that printer just was not designed to hold up to all the use and abuse was given... the replacement should be CLEARLY labeled as no touchy touch other than changing settings w,x,y,z......do not alter the machine, see david or so and so if it didnt print and have a camera on it so we can make sure some kid doesnt take a screwdriver to it like we had happen multiple times the year before....

 it Ill admit In the last many months I try to avoid the conversations regarding the printer.... if say take the old one apart and go through it from head to toe and make it the "ok to hack this one" printer"
 



On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 12:59:04 AM UTC-7, Eric Ose wrote:

Joe referring to shapeways is a good idea. Not that we would do that in a way that suggests they can't try and make their prints work, but to get something made without having to spend time with failed prints.

-Eric Ose
Robot Ambassador

3d printers are just not "point click print".  By calling them printers the expectation is they are as reliable as an inkjet or laser.

As important as having a reliable printer we need a way to set expectations.

Yes we have a 3d printer; yes it's free to use;  no, most likely your model won't print the first time.  Are you here to learn about 3d printing or do you just want a model printed?

If all they want is a model printed.  Direct them to shapeways or another service.

Maybe an explanation that this is "consumer-alpha" technology.  More like a model-t than a Dodge Dart.

Also, if the print is attempted and fails.  Recommend they come down for 3d printing night.  Bring the "trophy" to learn why it may have failed, and more importantly how to fix the problem.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 11, 2015, at 3:06 PM, david farmer <azdavi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> thats a good point with the heated bed. i also like that they got rid of the wood, and have made the extruder easier to load. the user interface is better now as well.
>
> Theres a big difference though between your printer and the labs printer, after a while you figured out all the kinks and can fix it on the fly, even without thinking about it. its going to be really difficult to find a printer that anyone can just walk in and use right away without knowing any tricks. its also going to be hard to find one that can handle the abuse that we throw at it.
>
> With my printer i can get a good print nearly 100% of the time, but if i brought it into the lab to use, i guarantee that that rate would be very low for people using it in the lab.
>
> --
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[Ryan Mcdermott]

Something something great minds ;-).

[Corey Renner]

LOL.  As I clicked "send" Ryan's email popped up :)

But yeah, seriously, come down here and cut a new frame.  That would be very cool.

cheers,

c

Blog, not recently updated.  Don't judge me, worry about your own business.

http://coreyrenner.tumblr.com/

 

YouTube Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/vandal968

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Corey Renner <vand...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Larry Campbell]

I think we would need to convert the frame design from metric to standard... 6mm aluminum is not available locally... wouldnt be too bad...

also need to cut a new table carrier

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 3:09:04 PM UTC-7, Corey Renner wrote:

LOL.  As I clicked "send" Ryan's email popped up :)

But yeah, seriously, come down here and cut a new frame.  That would be very cool.

 

[Jasper Nance]

David, fair point and I realize this. But this also applies to any printer including the rep 2. I guarantee you I could F one up in 10 minutes if I really tried. At some point, respect is required in the equation. 

Vivie -- my main goal was to undercut the makerbot in terms of price because I feel like the makerbot is too expensive for too closed and unexceptional of a printer. The ultimaker extended is huge -- not only do we not really need that extra size (it would be nice but...) but it also means 30 hour prints become entirely possible which means people will be turned off when they see their tiny little design filling a tiny portion? Or do we switch to a 1mm nozzle and limit it to big things? 

The idea was to get an all-around generic robust printer, and I see the extended edition as a specialty printer -- and all of the things that come with it like decreased rigidity and increased belt twang etc etc etc. 

I just don't think its what we (What the members have voiced) want out of THIS printer, our 'flagship' printer. 

[Jasper Nance]

Are we voting on this tomorrow or in 2 weeks and one day (in which case I'll be gone to Virginia...)

[Ryan Mcdermott]

Tomorrow (you proposed it 13 days ago).

[Jasper Nance]

Schweet