Proposal - Class instructor/lab percentage change

[Jeff Sittler]

Currently, based on the Events page on the Wiki (https://wiki.heatsynclabs.org/wiki/Events#Guidelines_on_Ticket_Prices), the instructor gets 70%and the Lab gets 30% (after material costs).

HSL is currently running at a monthly deficit, in an effort to help reduce that deficit, I would like to make a proposal that we change the reverse that so that HSL gets 70% and the instructor gets 30% (after material cost) of the class fee.

I know that this is a big change and will impact some instructors, however, we need to put the Lab first and do what we can to make sure the doors stay open, otherwise there will be no Lab to have classes at.

Let's discuss, but let's please keep the discussion to this topic only.

Thanks!

[Robert Bushman]

Price theory was my favorite class in economics. Lowering the price
tends to reduce the quantity supplied. If there are lots of instructors
teaching lots of classes and it wouldn't hurt for that quantity supplied
to drop a bit, it's a good idea to lower the price paid to the instructor.

If there aren't a lot of classes being taught, then two things:

1. Lowering the price paid won't increase net significantly.
2. It could reduce the number of classes offered.

Aside from that, classes are not just a source of revenue, they are also
a key membership funnel.

What are the numbers that are guiding this decision? How much net would
this have generated over the past 3 months if it had zero impact on
classes offered? What if it led to a 50% reduction in classes offered?
Is the amount of net revenue gained sufficient to justify the risk to
the new member funnel?

[Cprossu]

I will say although I've never taught a class with lab fees I know several people who do teach such classes and they usually have way more skin and money in the game than is advertised.
One I know donates basically all of their portion of fees to the lab, and another told me they used it to get equipment upgrades. I know one supplements their own money into the pile on top of that and doesn't even get the chance to break even. I think switching it from the way it is to the complete reverse is way too drastic and would be a mistake and unneeded strain towards some of our most dedicated members/volunteers. I know we have to make some changes and hopefully go from being in the red all the time to moving in the black, but I don't see how this specifically would improve the situation, and might not be as big of a chunk of money as one might think due to the potential money being funneled back into the lab anyways.

[Mike Wolfson]

I think anyone who teaches classes deserves to keep all the money.  I hope they are encouraged to teach more classes which is good for the lab.

[Eric Ose]

I'm opposed to this reduction in instructor earnings. Jeff and I have talked in person and he knows that I would advocate for the opposite of what he suggests. Based on how hard it has been for me to get other people to host events.

Nothing prevents people from hosting events with more or even all of the earnings going towards HeatSync Labs. I'm not sure if there are any other barriers potential instructors are facing that prevents them from doing so.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Sometimes cool things just happen, but usually you have to plan them.

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[sherman mohler]

So I apologize if this ends up in the wrong "Google HeatSync Sub Group", but if the original reason for discussing the percentage change is to get HeatSync back into at least generating enough revenue to break even, should there be a nominal requested donation for using certain machines per hour?

So, as an example, personally I would have no issue paying a nominal $1-$2 per hour for usage of the laser cutters. Same concept of the 3d printers although I know print jobs can take a while (maybe 50 cents an hour?). Without cameras to 'spy' this would all be on the honor system.

As a frame of reference, I am also a member of a lapidary club in Apache Junction. They have some pretty costly machines, but over the last five decades they have a surplus which helps them invest in new machines to keep the lapidary on the "cutting edge" (bad pun intended). They charge about $200 per year to be a member and have unlimited access to many of the machines, and then $2 for every inch of rock or slab you cut (there's the real cost) on the blades that are 8 inches or larger (the smaller blades and the polishing machines are inherent with the membership). They also own their own building, so these costs really do keep the lapidary with a surplus.

Of course, another option is to focus on recruitment of new members for HeatSync. I should probably spend more time on my Tuesday nights grabbing people who look into the windows and get them in for tours (I actually do do this often, but maybe I need to do it even more).  We also do have a *lot* of folks who have been coming in for months on public evenings who don't seem to be interested in converting to memberships. Some of those folks are single mothers and fathers without a lot of resources trying to help their kids out, but barring that how do we get other folks to step into a membership?

-- Sherman

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[Eric Ose]

Sherman, That is interesting and I have questions, yet a new thread is probably preferable. I think it would be a distraction in this thread.

Back on the topic of instructor fee changes. Bob asked a great question. Nobody else hosted events that they got paid for in the last 6 months besides me.

I made roughly $2,100 from lab events in the last 6 months, and the lab received $800. There are some supplies costs not shown. I spent roughly 104 hours preparing for and hosting events and ultimately made about $18 per hour. This figure is completely separate for the 40+ hours a month I volunteer.

Darrell did host 2 machine shop classes totaling $300 and it was all for the lab. This proposal doesn't prevent people from donating all of a class fee to the lab so it wouldn't discourage these events.

It is true that the laser certification classes are usually the most profitable because all the prep work has been done and I don't have to spend on supplies. It averages $31 per hour which helps compensate for my events that take more prep work or are under attended. One could make the argument that certification classes should be paid out differently, but then things like the welding class suffer because the majority of the funds go towards materials.

Jeff and I have discussed our differing opinions in the past on this topic prior to a proposal being posted. It's fine for us to have discussions and share our opinions, but the community should decide what they want and hopefully more people will be willing to host classes.

Eric Ose

Robot Ambassador

Sometimes cool things just happen, but usually you have to plan them.

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[Jeff Sittler]

Sherman,

Yes, the effort is to help keep HSL afloat.  Once we are not losing money each month, then I am all for switching things back.

I too have thought about a "suggested" donation for the various machines.  I was thinking something along the lines of like $1/hr for the 3D printer(s), $3-5 for the laser cutter.  Obviously this would have to be on the honor system.

It would be great if HSL has a surplus of funds that could be used to maintain/upgrade equipment.

For the past few years, everyone keeps saying "get more members", which is a great idea, but our conversion rate is abysmal.  Why would someone "pay" when they can come in and use stuff for free?  Membership does not give the member anything, and the paying member is paying mainly to help keep the lab going.  I am open to any suggestions on how member benefits could be improved upon.  I've heard of having "member only" hours as a perk.  What other ideas do you think would entice someone to becoming a paying member?

Great discussion!

[Chris McLaughlin]

HYH Vote results:  0 For  10 Against