Proposal: Create a Kiosk Sign-In System

[Michael Mathers]

Proposal:  Create a Kiosk Sign-In System

• All entrances of HSL Members should be logged.  
• All members will have a record and this record will be reasonably kept up-to-date on whether they are paid-up in dues, expulsion, active, etc.
• Sign-in will be easy and not intended to be "secure" (a quick PIN or something, specific proposal below).
• Certifications that a member has been awarded for tools that require it will be viewable here so any Member can confirm that another has the right to use a particular tool/station.
• Members will sign-out upon leaving.
• Signed-in members will be listed on http://live.heatsynclabs.org or, at least, the "open" status of the space (see other proposal)

Here are some specifics I have in mind for the software. I am willing to develop it and have already started some design for it.  I could have something up in just a few weeks.

Sign-In/Out

• Sign-in/out should be SUPER-DUPER simple easy to do.
• Support all of the following means:
• Can sign in by PIN/code.  Suggestion: 4 digit PIN.  Example:  8509  (Numeric keypad up front)
• Can sign in by mouse/UI.  Find, name, click Sign-In button
• Near Future:  Sign-in by scanned/printed QR code or some other quick id access (cheap).
• Possible Future:  Key-Card access would conveniently auto-sign in a Key-Card Member.
• Sign-out by the same means
  
• Suggested "grace" period for sign-ins: To accommodate that a member may be paid-up but not reflected immediately in this Kiosk, a grace period is suggested to allow sign-ins despite a membership being expired.  The period to be configurable.
• If Member photo not on file, suggested that a software be able to take a photo right then and there on first sign-in.

Guest Sign-In/Out

• Guests of a Member should be signed in by the member.  First name only required.  Guest sign-in will always be attached to the member sign-in and is the responsibility of the member including any/all violations of HSL rules/processes/safety procedures.  Guest policies are not determined in this proposal, just that the kiosk should have a guest sign-in feature.

Certification List

• Any member can walk up and see a list of certifications for any member (possibly available on the web as well).
  

User != Members:  Only certain users, as defined by role and board, will be able to actually authenticate into the application to maintain things like

certificate lists, member lists, etc.

[Corey Renner]

To help clarify, I think that Michael is suggesting this:

http://www.tvspots.tv/video/19279/WASHINGTON-MUTUAL--HEAD-SCAN

cheers,

c ;)

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[Ryan Mcdermott]

Okay, I'm going to be blunt for sec.

Michael, you showed up a week ago and are now proposing that we change a bunch of the stuff about how we run our lab.

WTF

We aren't a business.  You aren't buying anything from us.  There isn't even really an "us".  We are a community of people who pooled our money to rent a space.  If you want to donate $50 a month or $100,000 a month to the lab, that's great!

But that's just a donation.  If you end up being close enough in our community that we end up giving you a key to the door, then you can come inside during off hours.

It's not confusing.  We're mostly just a bunch of friends who have this whacky idea to pool our money and buy a space for our tools.

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Michael Mathers <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Jasper Nance]

Sorta...

 

groups of friends usually don't qualify for 501(c)(3) status

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Jasper Nance - KE7PHI
Creative and Scientific Imagery
http://www.nebarnix.com/

[Ryan Mcdermott]

Also I don't think the IRS accepts "no, we're just a bunch of friends" as an excuse not to have to give them a bunch of the donations we use to keep the rent paid and the lights on.

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[Jerry Davis]

I think a simple guest sheet would suffice.
old school. pen and paper.

just to find out about how our guests found out about us, and what
they are interested in.
just like someone proposed a few posts back.

I would think we just want to find out about our foot "traffic"

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Ryan Mcdermott <blh...@gmail.com> wrote:

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--
Licensed Amateur Radio Operator: K7AZJ
Registered Linux User: 275424
Arduino programmer

Recursion: (noun):
see: Recursion

[Ryan Mcdermott]

If you would like to see an example of what the "guest sing in sheet" will look like, drop by the bathroom and look at the cleaning log.

(That was a typo, but I'm leaving it.  If we have a sign in sheet, I'm going to propose that it become a "sign in sheet" and all guests be required to sing me a song before they can come inside)

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[Jasper Nance]

Open mic night at the lab anyone?!

[Ryan Mcdermott]

Only if you play Uke.

#swoon

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Jasper Nance <nebar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Open mic night at the lab anyone?!

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[Michael Mathers]

Ryan,

Respectfully I think you do me wrong.  I am excited about contributing.

- I have referred it already to 4 others who specifically asked me for the website and location so that they can check it out.

- I have already offered over $1000 (retail) in tools for long-term loan.

With regard to the "kiosk" idea and the "certifications" list.  These are ideas that I have directly overheard others say that they think we could use.  Perhaps you disagree.  This was just an idea to answer two questions:

1). Is that person that is walking in, given the community size and growing, a Member or not?

2). Do they have the necessary safety cert to run X tool?

I do not understand the enmity, frankly. It's a proposal. If the members don't like it, it won't happen, right?

I withdraw the proposal.

[Paul Hickey]

I didn't say pen and paper, I was thinking maybe simple google form on the tablet up front for people to sign in.  I don't think a major sign in/sign out system would be enforceable or practical

Personally, I'd also have to conditionally agree with Ryan on this point, come to a HYH or two before you start posting a bunch of proposals.  If you know this group, you'd realize that some of the items you are proposing aren't even proposals, just stuff you can/should do yourself or with the help of other members.

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Jasper Nance <nebar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Open mic night at the lab anyone?!

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Paul Hickey

[Nate Caine]

 

Shit.

 

I was in the shower, and by time I got here, both these proposals were withdrawn before I could "comment" on them. 

 

----------------------

 

However, I think Ryan's idea of having the sign in sheet double as the bathroom cleaning log makes sense.

 

When guests arrive, they sign in and are given a tour.

 

As the tour ends near the restroom, we inform them that the restroom needs cleaning and voilà, they are the next name on the cleaning-log / sign-in-sheet! 

 

 

Restroom cleaning problem solved

 

Ryan you are a genius!

[Scott Bailey]

Unless someone DOES the work, nothing will happen.  

For members, a sign in kiosk is, I think, silly.  And here is my reasoning: all the physical infrastructure for sign in already exists between the card readers and the wifi access points...  Someone just needs to implement the software changes.  Of course, behavioral odification is another story....

Rather than PROPOSE a future change, I suggest you implement the code and demo it.  If the end result is an improvement for members, then run it on a trial basis with an official proposal to make it permanent.

SB

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Scott Bailey

[Matt Shepard]

Seconding the motion to press-gang all visitors for hard labor.

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[Kris Bahnsen]

I have to admit, this "hilarity" is why I end up not reading the
mailing list for weeks at a time. I come back and this is the first
thing I click. I will see you all in another couple of weeks...

-Kris

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[Jacob Rosenthal]

Micheal,

I for one thank you for continue to explore how you can fit in our community and hope you'll keep trying and asking hard questions.

First proposals are a little bit weighty-- you're asking everyone to consider here and then show up to vote up or down your idea. An idea which they can't have an opinion on, because the implementation doesn't exist yet--and they don't even know you by face or name yet (This is where it helps to use the system, meet people, make things,and help people)

That goes into number 2. You'll find that on the internet, and sadly no less here, people will shoot down or negate your creative idea. NEVER ask for permission to make things, just make things. 

Oh and everyone else, stop telling people not to fucking make things.

[Kris Bahnsen]

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Jacob Rosenthal
<jakero...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Micheal,
>
> I for one thank you for continue to explore how you can fit in our community
> and hope you'll keep trying and asking hard questions.

Agreed. After I sent my last email I realize that I might have come
off as an ass insinuating your idea was laughable. I was actually
disgusted by everyone else making of of it (which is how most
conversations that I read on the list tend to drift), hence why I will
be filtering out messages to /dev/null until I feel like getting
another laugh.

-Kris

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[Jasper Nance]

So, I really like the kiosk sign in. There was a similar little computer terminal with a simple guest disclaimer on it at hacker dojo and you could also check a little box to recieve an email with links to their website and forums and scheduels etc. if I remember correctly.

 

Even if some people don't check in, who cares. It will make it that much easier to guide people to our community information and we can keep track of it all.

 

 

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[Jasper Nance]

Still, do we really need a proposal for this? can't it just be done?

[Harry Meier]

+1 to the spirit of the original idea

and +1 to Jacob and Scott Bailey's comments. Just do it, code it, and show it off, but don't add steps to the sign in for members who are already swiping into an electronic system. 

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[Ben Humpherys]

Your ideas are very good! Just remember that HeatSync is a big 'ol collection of people with feelings and egos. You don't want to tread on those feelings and egos if you don't need to (and there may be times when you need to). Spend more time talking to people, getting a feel for the current cultural dynamics, and building cool things.

This sign-in idea is excellent. But it's better to discuss it than jump all the way to a proposal.

I think the easiest way would be to program a log. I don't honestly know why we don't already track who opens the doors as it is. But a log of people putting their key cards up to the RFID readers would serve as a very easy way to track people's comings and goings. That would provide useful data indeed. IF something happens, we could check who was in the space or who entered before then, and ask what they saw. Etc. And even when the doors are open, members could just touch their keys to the pads to "sign in" as being there. Simple and easy, once someone makes it happen.

[Nate Plamondon]

The door readers are already logged, though I don't know how much
history is kept.
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Nate Plamondon

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[Jacob Rosenthal]

And to Kris,

Your negative comments aren't all that helpful. I know you're a good hacker--why dont you get off the sidelines and help out, stop in?

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[Ryan Rix]

On Thu 15 November 2012 13:04:02 Michael Mathers wrote:
> Proposal: Create a Kiosk Sign-In System
>
>

> - All entrances of HSL Members should be logged.

This is done already.

> - All members will have a record and this record will be reasonably

kept
> up-to-date on whether they are paid-up in dues, expulsion, active, etc.

> - Sign-in will be easy and not intended to be "secure" (a quick PIN or
> something, specific proposal below).
> - Certifications that a member has been awarded for tools that require

> it will be viewable here so any Member can confirm that another has the
> right to use a particular tool/station.

> - Members will sign-out upon leaving.

> - Signed-in members will be listed on http://live.heatsynclabs.org or,

> at least, the "open" status of the space (see other proposal)

This is done. the latter could be done in five minutes, ask will for the
chance to integrate our SpaceAPI endpoint in to live.hsl! (I only say ask
will because it's running on his server and you'll need access to it
there (WHY YOU NO GITHUB LIVE.HSL, WILL?).

> Here are some specifics I have in mind for the software. I am willing to
> develop it and have already started some design for it. I could have
> something up in just a few weeks.

This doesn't need a proposal, it needs someone to write this software. It's
needed someone to write this software for the last two years. And, I guess,
someone to police it since I don't think everyone plans to sign in
every time they enter or leave the space, that's silly and seems like
a bit of a PITA.

I look forward to seeing the things that will and I have spent the last two
years mostly working on by ourselves come to fruition with your help, Matt!
By the way, I don't think I've met you in the space before, would love
to chat with you about infrastructure stuff some time!

r.

>
> *Sign-In/Out*
>
> - Sign-in/out should be SUPER-DUPER simple easy to do.
> - Support all of the following means:
> - Can sign in by PIN/code. Suggestion: 4 digit PIN. Example: 8509
> (Numeric keypad up front)
> - Can sign in by mouse/UI. Find, name, click Sign-In button
> - Near Future: Sign-in by scanned/printed QR code or some other
> quick id access (cheap).
> - Possible Future: Key-Card access would conveniently auto-sign in
a
> Key-Card Member.
> - Sign-out by the same means
> - Suggested "grace" period for sign-ins: To accommodate that a member

> may be paid-up but not reflected immediately in this Kiosk, a grace
> period is suggested to allow sign-ins despite a membership being expired.
> The period to be configurable.

> - If Member photo not on file, suggested that a software be able to

take
> a photo right then and there on first sign-in.
>

> *Guest Sign-In/Out*
>
> - Guests of a Member should be signed in by the member. First name

only
> required. Guest sign-in will always be attached to the member sign-in
> and is the responsibility of the member including any/all violations of
HSL
> rules/processes/safety procedures. Guest policies are not determined in
> this proposal, just that the kiosk should have a guest sign-in feature.
>

> *Certification List*
>
> - Any member can walk up and see a list of certifications for any

member
> (possibly available on the web as well).
>
> User != Members: Only certain users, as defined by role and board, will
be
> able to actually authenticate into the application to maintain things like
> certificate lists, member lists, etc.
>

> --
--
Ryan Rix
http://rix.si

[Ryan Rix]

Everything is logged with the entire history stored on a DB locally in the space and mirrored offsite. The IT team has access to both.

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Ryan Rix -- http://rix.si

[Luis Montes]

He hasn't violated any code of ethics or anything. 

There's no membership longevity requirements for any of this stuff.  

Michael, keep doing what you're doing.  If people disagree, they can vote it down.  No biggie.

Luis

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Ryan Mcdermott <blh...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Will Bradley]

It's a work in progress though, and I like the idea of pen/paper just as much as seeing code get written.

It's one thing to discuss or vote on something. It's another to make it a reality. And it's yet another to get people to actually use it. We have nobody to police members at 2am, not even volunteers interested in playing receptionist during open hours, so most of our systems are simple, straightforward, and requiring little explanation. (Like the signs Austin recently put up saying NO SOLVENTS. So simple, so effective.)

We do things differently here, but I'm glad to see you care and get active right away!

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