تعريف

[Osama Khalid]

السلام عليكم.

اسمي أسامة خالد وأنا مساهم في الموسوعة الحرة وأملك الوصول إلى الأدوات
الإدارية وآمل أن أتمكن من المساعدة في المشروع. لا تتردد في السؤال إن
واجهتك بعض المشاكل في تحرير الموسوعة.

لدي سؤال بخصوص هذا المشروع. هل المستخدمون ملزومون باستخدام أدوات غوغل
للترجمة ليتبرعوا للمستشفيات؟

شكرا جزيلا.
--
Osama Khalid
English-to-Arabic translator and programmer.
http://osamak.wordpress.com | http://tinyogg.com

[Shady M. Najib]

Unfortunately yes, Check the Health Speaks Donation Rules here:
http://sitescontent.google.com/healthspeaks/get-involved/health-speaks-donation-details

2010/9/8 Osama Khalid <osa...@gnu.org>

--
Yours,

Shady M.Najib,

+2012 721 8784,
{My first name} [at] comcal [dot] org,

Blogs:
- Personal:  http://shadym.blogspot.com
- Technical: http://fci-h.blogspot.com
Website: http://www.comcal.org

[Osama Khalid]

On Wed, Sep 08, 2010 at 11:32:52PM +0200, Shady M. Najib wrote:
> Unfortunately yes, Check the Health Speaks Donation Rules here:
> http://sitescontent.google.com/healthspeaks/get-involved/health-speaks-donation-details

I'm speaking of my self whey I say that's annoying. Is it possible to
change that policy to allow people to use their own text editors on
their own computers and still be able to join the event?

[Health Speaks]

No, I am sorry. It is not possible.

Beth Ellyn

[Yomna Osama]

Keep that part in mind too.."Donations for English-Arabic translations will be made to the Children’s Cancer Hospital Egypt 57357 Foundation. " 

But I don't know with what percent..
--------------------------------------------------------
Yomna Osama Abd El Rahman

مقامك حيث أقامك فأجتهد فيما أقامك

[Osama Khalid]

On Wed, Sep 08, 2010 at 06:52:34PM -0700, Health Speaks wrote:
> No, I am sorry. It is not possible.

[I'm speaking of myself. I represent only my point of view.]

When this project was presented in Wikimania 2010, I honestly liked
it. It was presented as Google's non-profit effort to educate people
to make their lives better through Wikipedia. Now, I just cannot see
the non-profit, human-helping part anymore.

It seems to me that what is really going on here is using the amazing
power of volunteers to improve the proprietary Google Translate
Toolkit for basically nothing. This Toolkit isn't only secret and not
accessible, modifiable or tickerable by users, but also requires them
to push their data into a huge repository that they cannot control and
which is govern by a privacy policy that does not protect them, that
they cannot understand and that is subject to free modification by
Google.

It is not, in my point of view, Wikipedia spirit to support or engage
in a project that's its only goal is to promote and improve a non-free
corporate tool. It works against software freedom, culture freedom,
society empowerment and independence, the ideals we have been working
to promote for many years.

The only solution that can work which is at the same time easy to
adopt is to explicitly allow maximum freedom for any person to choose
the tool they want to use to participate in this event.

I appreciate the effort that was done in the first project. I was
happy to chat with Michael in Wikimania on how it can be done better,
but I cannot see how the community can support this one.

[lobna shokry]

correct me if i am wrong, you see that this project is made to improve google toolkit , which is a non-free
corporate tool? because to me it will be a matter of concern ! and what do you mean by this part " but also requires them

to push their data into a huge repository that they cannot control and
which is govern by a privacy policy that does not protect them, that
they cannot understand and that is subject to free modification by
Google."

Thanks,

Lobna.

[Joanne Stevens]

Hello everyone,

Let me expand a little upon the response from Beth Ellyn in order to clarify the goals of Health Speaks.

Health Speaks is an initiative to increase high-quality health information online in languages other than English.  As such, we welcome and encourage all efforts to create Arabic health information - this is the goal after all!   However, for our initial Wikipedia pilot, we are requesting that volunteers make use of the Translator Toolkit so that we can adequately track their contribution in order to correctly calculate the donation to 57357.  In fact, the Translator Toolkit is helping us to provide the gadgets on the site that we all use to monitor progress as a volunteer community.  If volunteers use a variety of tools, we will not have a single source of data to help us to manage the project.

Translation is one part of the larger Health Speaks initiative - we're also exploring ways to help others bring existing content online.  We hope that the Translator Toolkit is helpful for any translation activities, but it is by no means the focal point of Health Speaks.  

Translator Toolkit is a free tool for everyone, and by adding your translations to the global translation memory, everyone benefits from the work you've done.

I hope that this helps to clarify our motivations - at Google.org we're passionate about health information and we greatly appreciate the incredible response we've seen from Arabic volunteers and the Wikipedia community.

Best wishes,

Joanne from Health Speaks

--
Dr Joanne Stevens
Google.org | +1 650 214 5408 (office) | +1 650 336 4721 (mobile)

[Osama Khalid]

On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 10:06:05AM +0300, lobna shokry wrote:
> you mean by this part " but also requires them to push their data
> into a huge repository that they cannot control and which is govern
> by a privacy policy that does not protect them, that they cannot
> understand and that is subject to free modification by Google."

There are several serious privacy- and autonomy-related issues. You
can visit eff.org[0] and gnu.org[1] to read more about the subject.

On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 02:16:50AM -0700, Joanne Stevens wrote:
> to correctly calculate the donation to 57357.

> to provide the gadgets on the site that we all use to monitor

> progress as a volunteer community.

I understand. It's just that I believe we/you can solve this issue by
simply implementing a static HTML page in the frontend with a small
Python script in the backend to report to Google the progress.

So here is the idea: there will be a list of 250 English articles with
a text field to fill with the name of the article in the Arabic
Wikipedia. We will put all articles in a temporary place (outside the
'main', article namespace) so we can review and keep track of them.

Once the text field is filled, the script will automatically check the
article existence in the Arabic Wikipedia and if it exists, if will
list its author in the HTML page, count the words in the original
article and mark it as 'needs review'. Someone from the Arabic
Wikipedia will review the article: If we feel that it is not eligible
for inclusion in Wikipedia (e.g. too bad translation or too much
machine translation), we will delete them, and the script will
automatically notice and remove the 'needs review' tag. If we liked
them and saw them as complete translations, we will add a certain tag
and the script will notice and mark the article as 'ready'.. And
that's how Google will know that this article is eligible.

I'm ready to contribute to this event by implementing this solution
shortly and running it on my little server (or on the Wikimedia's
Toolserver[2]). Of course, I'll publish the source code so anyone can
study it, improve it and give me feedbacks.

Speaking of verity of tools, don't students contribute using very
different tools, to very different projects, in very different
programming languages every year during the Google's Summer of Code? I
mean.. I think that is common and no problem at all.

Regards,

[0]: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/12/google-ceo-eric-schmidt-dismisses-privacy
[1]: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html
[2]: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Toolserver

[Health Speaks]

A donation of $0.03 cents per translated Arabic word from this project as specified will go to this charity.

Not sure what you mean by % but I presume you are asking if Google is subtracting expenses for the program from the amount. We are not, we donate the entire amount to charity.  ALL the donations for Arabic translation within this project go to this charity  - so 100% is sent to the hospital.

[Osama Khalid]

On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 09:56:14AM -0700, Health Speaks wrote:
> A donation of $0.03 cents per translated Arabic word from this
> project as specified will go to this charity.

This very part is nice, but the rest is disturbing. The whole
unfragmented picture should be seen and judged. I guess I explained
enough in my previous email.

[Anas Eljamal]

Osama: I do respect your diligence in fighting for what you believe is right. I am neither affiliated with Google nor Wikipedia and I am volunteering my time because I believe this is a great project. It is a win-win-win-win scenario: win for the Arabic community to benefit from the open knowledge and enrich their open access to health information. Win to the Arabic Wikipedia in enriching its contents with reliable medical articles. Win for Google to improve a rather clumsy Arabic translation tool. And win for the charity.  I cannot find or justify your standpoint about this project in the name of protecting the openness and freedom.. I will understand if you criticize the quality of the work in which case we will work hard on improving it.

We welcome you and your expertise to help with this project. But in the spirit of eff, gnu and Wikipedia, either contribute to the project whole heartily in accordance to their rules, or leave the sabaya and shabab who are dedicating their valuable idle time and energy, collaboratively and productively in the project to do their work.

Again, I admire your spirit to standing up to what you believe is right.

-a

--
Expose the concealed obvious

[Ahmed Abdel-Maksoud]

Totally agree with your opinion anas, may alaah bless you
i have enrolled in such a project after reading and accepting all these rules and i found it fair to all participants (Google- Wikipedia-Myself)  but of course you are welcome Osama to develop and create any new tools to support your ideas and i will be the first to volunteer in such  project whenever you launch it....

[Osama Khalid]

On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 01:38:25PM -0600, Anas Eljamal wrote:
> win-win-win-win scenario

Shall we extend this one more 'win' for Wikipedia commitment to free
software and another one for people who're (for any reason) not very
comfortable with using Google Translate Toolkit?

Again, all what I am asking for is to extend the possibility and I
cannot understand why anyone would not like this. :)

[Khaled Mokhtar]

Thanks Anas for your email.

I was not having any intention to write a similar email now so as to get out all the bad feelings some may be having.

I can't find any reason for frustration ya Osama.

In very simple words, it is not an obligation from noone, volunteers have been asked to contribute for many reasons elaborated in Anas's email.

All having the full right to do, or don't.

Google must be having a good return from this project as the definition of CSR (corporate social responsibility) says, that big companies must be developing the community and also developing their businesses in a simple harmonic way where all can benifit .

Google is donating to a very reputable hospital in Egypt, and I will be making sure myself that donations will be in the right hands.

Egyptian youth really needs much more of these initiatives and let me ask a question. For the 9th day of this project, how many of us had learnt something new? Something really great ? Something technical in health knwolege or deceases or even in technical software application issues?

Google could have donated the whole 50,000$ without even noone can win exept google, and the hospital.

For your information osama, no any big corporate will have any single problem of getting much more people than contributing in this project to do translations with less than 50,000$ with a good figure. It is a community contribution and max benifit for all.

Sorry for taking too long, and execuse any typos as I am using handheld set.

We will all be meeting soon to discuss much more details :)

Thanks Osama for your thoughts, I am happy having you in Health Speaks.

Thanks!

Khaled

Sent from my iPhone 

[Noura shawkY]

Hey all!

 

I agree with what Anas, Ahmed and Khaled said.

 

As a medical student, I did benefit alot from this project whether it’s the medical content, technical application or teamwork!

 

I just want to comment on the freedom part.

Osama:

Your ideas are very good and would make things easier for some people. However, a lot of people are finding the toolkit an easy way and are getting used to it.

 

The project is not affecting anyone's freedom. In fact, all contributors volunteered to give part of their time to the project as they abide by its rules.

 

I am proud of being part of such a project and hope you find it as interesting and fun as we do!

 

Happy Feast Everyone

--

Noura Shawky
Students of Health Awareness
nsha...@gmail.com