What’s going on?

[Paul Meadow]

Hi!  

My wife just read an SF Gate article saying GGRO just ceased volunteer operations?!?

Any info!

-Paul

[Mary Malec]

It's all a mystery.  It's been 2 1/5 weeks and we hear nothing.  No word on why, what, when or if we can return.  And yes, just weeks before GGRO won an award from the NPS for excellence.  And the 40th Anniversary is in 2 weeks. 

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[Sam Hontalas]

Hi Paul and anyone else who is still in this group.

What you read in the article is all the info that we've been given.  On September 5th the Conservancy email all GGRO volunteers stating that all operations will be paused until further notice.  It came as a shock to us all.

The good news is all of the HW teams are continuing to go to the hill everyday and collect the data   We're using the old paper data sheets and will hold onto the data to submit to the Conservancy later.

Come on up when ever you like. Feel free to hawkwatch with us or enjoy a couple of hours on your own. 

--

[Emily Van Poetsch]

What?!? 🥺 

---

From: hawkwat...@googlegroups.com <hawkwat...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Sam Hontalas <shon...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2024 5:08:21 PM
To: hawkwat...@googlegroups.com <hawkwat...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Hawkwatch: 5181] What’s going on?

 

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[Paul Meadow]

Glad to hear you’re keeping it going.  I have been out of town most of the summer for various reasons, some good, some not so good.  

When is most of the group up there?

Best

-Paul

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[Brian O'Laughlin]

10am-3pm, weather permitting. 

The crews have been fragmented, so hard to pick a day. Saturday II still has some familiar faces (Jan,Tim, Jennifer). I'm on Saturday 1 with Mary and Chris Cruz.

C'mon up, we're getting to peak!

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[Mary Malec]

We had 108 BWHA today and more than that in SSHA.  Also a kite, the first of the year.   Merlin, peregrine, kestrels, plus the usual.  A dark morph BWHA and a couple of dark RTs. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/902940761.6083383.1727138688878%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Sam Hontalas]

My regular day is this Sunday.  I plan on going up tomorrow.  Jan and Tim will be there as well .  Brian and Mary co- daylead this saturday . I just read a report by a visitor today of over 100 broadwings counted . I'm still waiting on today's final numbers from the team. I'll post them here when they come through.

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[Paul Meadow]

I get back to SF area either Wednesday or next Wednesday evening depending on how my mother is doing.  I’ll try to get up as soon as possible to see some of you all and count. 

Best

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[Belle Davis]

Hey!

Been a long time. I moved to Florida and then North Carolina for my first two years of college, now back to CA for my second two years at UCSB. I really hope volunteer work gets back on track :( I saw a GGRO sticker on a car today in Isla Vista and thought of y’all with love. 

This summer we did a family road trip up to Montana, where I got my first decent look at what I am fairly confident was a goshawk. Lots of swainies, several eagles of both varieties, a good look at a Krider’s tail… an awesome trip!

I miss you all ❤️

Belle Davis

On Sep 23, 2024, at 17:08, Sam Hontalas <shon...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Sam Hontalas]

Here's a recap of today's count:

581 raptors

5.25 hours counted

110.6 hph

11 species

70 TV

1 kite

4 harrier

153 sharpies

92 coops

6 red shoulders

109 broadies, 1 dark morph

116 redtails

5 kestrel

1 merlin

1 peregrine

17 unidentified

5 ui buteo

1 ui falcon

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[Paul Meadow]

Finally back and somewhat settled.  Anyone going up this week?

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[Mary Malec]

Nothing is settled.  The banders are locked out for the rest of the year and no promises for next year.  The blinds were left in place with all equipment despite banders asking to have them removed (nets on the ground dangerous to animals, animals chew lines, people vandalize). 

They are asking us to sign a volunteer form for an entity that is not GGRO. 

Two people in the Parks Consrvancy signed a letter to us calling themselves the GGRO Team

Allen and Teresa are not back and their reputation looks like toast. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAEvhAg-1EUgZxgJhwCE6_D6JCSO%3D%3DSbNEfo6vxx1XkbjBsHB6w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Paul Meadow]

Oh no. I meant I’m finally back in Pacifica and finished settling back in after a long absence.  But that doesn’t sound good.  

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[Brian O'Laughlin]

Welcome back, Paul.

The good news is that the hawks don't much care about the conservancy and they still have places to go. Teams are still showing up on the hill and doing an old fashioned paper and pencil count.

And Hawk Hill is a GGNRA park. We all own it.

So come on up! 

    `

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[Linda Chambers]

This is so shocking.  I know that Allen has a stellar reputation, even amongst other birding organizations.
This is so sad.😪

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[Linda Chambers]

Is there alternate site on the internet to get the Daily Hawkwatch count?

[Paul Meadow]

Right.  Just wondering if anyone from the team is planning to be up there sometime this week.  I think everyone’s ‘regular’ rotation is next weekend. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/2009218790.7566700.1727724497467%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Mary Malec]

It is being posted to ebird.  But the poster is always different and finding the lists is not always easy.  If we go on the hill, the ebird list is a raptor count.  If we're fogged out, it's whatever we see on our walks. 

Yes, Paul, come on up.  We can all use the support and commiseration.  And ideas.  

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[Brian O'Laughlin]

The short answer is "no". (I guess we could push out the daily summaries to this email).

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAHHqqQjVEsXKiP3qiwyF9UGGrwTSRHo%3D3xzY6vFX%3DNSgdxcVww%40mail.gmail.com

.

[Brian O'Laughlin]

We're scattered. Sat II is this Saturday, and Jan, Tim, Jeniffer on the schedule.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAEvhAg_TJr063OFrWzBioYviRAcdytJTfbw6Mqsys7E5VCbH%3Dg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sam Hontalas]

I'm not 100% sure yet but I hope to be going up on Saturday.

Outside of Paul, Linda, Emily,  Brian,  Mary, Belle and myself if anyone else is still getting these emails can you please give us a quick hello?  It would great to hear from you all.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/1607799352.7577626.1727725439797%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Linda Chambers]

I don't think Ron Berg is.

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[Sam Hontalas]

I will start posting the daily counts here starting this evening.

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[JJ Harris]

Thanks everyone for keeping us updated.

My whole family is stunned, and we all want to know what the hell is going on.

I came up on Saturday but the Hill was socked in. I did see and talk with some banders and Bob Power. I wanted to know what they knew and they wanted to know what I knew: nothing.

JJ

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[John Farnsworth]

Per your request, Sam, here’s my quick hello.  I’m still up in Washington state, and still missing the heck out of you guys. My next book, Reading Nature, the Evolution of American Nature Writing, comes out March 1st from Michigan State University Press. Still dealing with cancer, but in another month I’ll be going through a couple two-hour sessions of High Dose Radiation Brachytherapy spaced a week apart. The doc gives my a 70% chance of a cure, which are wonderful odds at this point. I’m going on meds in preparation for it tomorrow where the copay costs $1,430 a month. (Yeah, that wasn’t a typo.) 

On the birding end of things, crossing Rosario Strait this morning we saw 75ish Franklin gulls, a handful of red-necked phalaropes, and maybe a dozen rhinoceros auklets. Fall is certainly in the air!

Heartbreaking to hear that Allen’s reputation is toast. But good to hear that the hawkwatchers are keeping up the counts. Wish I could join you on the hill this season, if only for a day or two. 

John S. Farnsworth, PhD
Nature Beyond Solitude: Notes from the Field
Coves of Departure: Field Notes from the Sea of Cortes

Forthcoming in Spring of 2025: Reading Nature: The Evolution of American Nature Writing

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[Maxine Berg]

No he’s not as he changed email to rbe...@gmail.com. Can someone add him to the list.

I can’t get anything from Brian, but I do get everybody else.Ron just had cataract surgery last week. We’ll come up when he’s healed.

Maxine 

Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone

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[Brianna Gerard]

Hi Hawkwatchers,

I volunteered briefly in 2017-2019 but I love staying up to date and hearing from you all. I no longer live in the Bay, I'm in Woodland. Why are Allen and Teresa's reputations on the line? Is it because there is an assumption all this change was happening and they didn't share with the volunteers? I miss my days up on the hill, even if they were brief! I love watching the local birds with my son and named him after a Cooper's Hawk, so the learning I had from you all has stayed dear to my heart.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/822075071.7591890.1727729340520%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Mary Malec]

this article implies that Allen and Teresa were put on leave for cause

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/were-worried-award-winning-san-francisco-institution-abruptly-halts-operations/ar-AA1r4WRr

The leave and the suspension came simultaneously in a letter to volunteers by the Parks Conservancy.  Allen and Teresa's email and park phone numbers no longer go to them. 

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[Brianna Gerard]

😰 oh no, I hate to hear this. I don't know Teresa but have always admired Allen.

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[Belle Davis]

John, I hope your treatment goes smoothly! I’m glad you’re getting pretty good odds. 

I really hope things with the GGRO get sorted out soon. This is messed up as hell. 

Belle Davis

On Sep 30, 2024, at 15:29, Brianna Gerard <blynn...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Linda Chambers]

Thanks Belle.  Good to here from you!

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[Sam Hontalas]

Thanks to all who responded with a hello.

John,

Wishing you the best with your upcoming treatments. I know you're going to do well. Somehow someway somewhere we're all going to get together for a great hawkwatch.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAHHqqQjy_2gDnNz-tefZwN%2B2M9D97cU2n0ZjJcMKjJ%3DXEVtZFg%40mail.gmail.com.

[jeff boissier]

Hi All,

Per Sam’s request, doing my part to check in. Great to hear from so many. Sucks to hear about what’s happening with GGRO leadership. Glad you all are able to keep up the count. 

Was up John’s way in the San Juan islands 3 weeks ago on Lopez Island. Didn’t see much; one adult BE, accipiter, male harrier (I think). John, all the best on your upcoming treatment. You got this. And btw…you live in a very beautiful part of the world. 

Jeff

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 30, 2024, at 6:13 PM, Sam Hontalas <shon...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Sam Hontalas]

Great to hear from you Jeff. When you get a chance, email us a loaf of bread.Preferably right out of the oven.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/30301F2D-5A7A-4DF0-85C8-5A869CBBE4BC%40gmail.com.

[julia...@gmail.com]

You may know that I run the server that is used to post the daily counts. It’s a simple web form where you enter the numbers and the daily text. 

I can rig it so that it posts to a new location (not parks conservancy). 

Do you think thst people would be interested in using that form? 

Julian 

On Sep 30, 2024, at 8:43 PM, Sam Hontalas <shon...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAA9pNk5F5kE-T5xsZFP1t5CqSdLC9gAN2a3BLn25-FKGVWCv-g%40mail.gmail.com.

[jeff boissier]

Sam, Here’s the best I can do for now…😉

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 1, 2024, at 1:43 AM, julia...@gmail.com wrote:

You may know that I run the server that is used to post the daily counts. It’s a simple web form where you enter the numbers and the daily text. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CECF9D4D-973D-462A-BB6E-1B98057ECEE6%40gmail.com.

[Sam Hontalas]

Wow! Beautiful Jeff.

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[Mary Malec]

Julian----yea yes yes

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[Julian Hyde]

Great! Glad there’s interest. I’ll start a new email thread. 

Julian

On Oct 1, 2024, at 07:33, Mary Malec <mal...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CALgPmnXiFLHJXDL8aSQBgHY6hALA1er7bjwdrENhfFqyypvqGQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Julian Hyde]

I’m going to need to replace the “GGRO” branding with something. So can someone suggest a name for this new/temporary organization?

Julian

On Oct 1, 2024, at 07:49, Julian Hyde <julia...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Linda Chambers]

Thank you Julian!!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/C1B2895D-FB3F-4F90-A543-F26627995FFF%40gmail.com.

[John Farnsworth]

Maybe Golden Gate Hawk Watch?  GHHW?

Thanks again for taking this on, Julian. As I’ve said before, you’re a saint!

John S. Farnsworth, PhD
Nature Beyond Solitude: Notes from the Field
Coves of Departure: Field Notes from the Sea of Cortes

Forthcoming in Spring of 2025: Reading Nature: The Evolution of American Nature Writing

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/F6D47887-27BB-4B7F-8C3F-3E1DBA080638%40gmail.com.

[Sam Hontalas]

How about: Friends of Hawk Hill Migration Monitors?  FOHHMM

Maybe a bit wordy so if anyone wants to edit it down go for it.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/9614C917-32D1-46E3-92FE-C6B20EAF9CBC%40scu.edu.

[Mary Malec]

Friends of ggro

FOG

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[Jennifer Miller]

Howdy all!

May I ask a few questions about this? 

The hawk count, we've heard, is returning. Does this mean that two separate "spreadsheets" will be updated? Who is the formal owner of this server- is it volunteer owned and led or does the Park Service pay for it but is Volunteer led? Is this move temporary until we fully return? Will we disrupt any scientific measurements to which our counts are a part of? Meaning- the counts we've been doing and keeping record of may need an asterix subscript due to inner-office politics (which is not unlike a government shutdown, which impacts our numbers). 

And finally, what is the long-term plan for this site under a separate "ownership"

I guess I don't know too much about the behind the scenes, but keenly aware/sensitive to data ownership. 

- Jennifer

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[Sam Hontalas]

Mary, I think we need to keep any GGRO references out of it.

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[Linda Chambers]

I like that Mary.

On Tue, Oct 1, 2024, 8:59 AM Mary Malec <mal...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Rina Kor]

Hi Sam,

I'm still here, still keeping tabs. I was part of the Sat I group this season. I have a new job working swing shift and some weekends, so I told Mary and Brian that I couldn't commit to meeting up at our usual time.

Sending my best wishes to John as well.

Rina

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[Jan Ambrosini]

Hello all,

Regarding a website banner/name:

Maybe we don't need to worry about a good acronym at this point. And we could use "Hawk Hill" without getting too close to "GGRO."

Hawk Hill Raptor Counts?

Friends of Hawk Hill?

Hawk Hill Raptor Migration?

And I've been collecting the daily emails since the pause began. I edited them very lightly to match the general format, and put them all in a word doc. So if we proceed with redirecting Julian's form to a new site and want to enter the backlog, we could use this file.

Jan Ambrosini

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--

Jan Ambrosini

ambr...@gmail.com

[Mary Malec]

I really need to continue to use the GGRO name. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAM-nrZ%2BgOt9EiGErcPn3gy1VkY%2Bs-hSPZVdC-sikFkox1GFgJQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sam Hontalas]

Mary, my concern is that there may be a copyright issue. If the GGNPC copyrighted the name, acronym, logo,etc we or anyone else would need permission to use it. 

Maybe we should ask the rest of the DLs for input before going forward with it.

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[Mary Malec]

GGRO name preceded the PC.  And GGRO still exists.  And we are still part of it. 

But I have no objection to sending an email to the other DLs.  I was going to update them all later today

Mary

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[Linda Chambers]

Re: Copyright
I asked Allen about about this during the pandemic regarding putting the GGRO logo and name on face masks.  He said there was no copyright.

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[Tim Stroshane]

A possibly neutral name could be “Friends of Raptor Migration,” but it’s probably not sufficiently location-specific. 

T

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[John Farnsworth]

If you can’t go with GGRO during the hiatus, it would be good to use something that shows a continuity in the data.  Golden Gate Hawk Watch, for example, communicates a continuity of both personnel and site.  It also doesn’t pretend to be the entire GGRO operation, since banding is in hiatus and is a vital element of the observatory. 

John S. Farnsworth, PhD
Nature Beyond Solitude: Notes from the Field
Coves of Departure: Field Notes from the Sea of Cortes

Forthcoming in Spring of 2025: Reading Nature: The Evolution of American Nature Writing

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/BB4C79C7-8733-4297-8AD2-86952E143AE1%40gmail.com.

[Mary Malec]

For those of you who are not on the current hawk watch list:

Allen's birthday is next week.  Lynn Bantley is creating a birthday card for Allen.  Please send birthday greetings to Allen via

ban...@bantleydesign.com

Mary

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/BA62291F-FB48-4DA8-BF3B-3F0683DC8464%40scu.edu.

[Julian Hyde]

Due to my work in open source I am (unfortunately) all too familiar with intellectual property law.

GGRO is a brand and a trademark. Trademarks can be registered, but still have considerable power when not registered. The Parks Conservancy has considerable legal power over people who are using the trademark without permission (and also branding IP such as the red-tail silhouette). 

Even though GGRO name was in use before the Parks Conservancy came along, the Parks Conservancy is now very likely the owner of the trademark.

But the good news is that we don’t need to make a final decision. Whatever we choose can be a temporary placeholder. We just need something to put at the top of the web page. If we think of something better in two weeks, and we can change it again.

Of the suggestions so far, my favorite is John’s: ‘Golden Gate Hawk Watch’, GGHW. It includes the location, what we do, and people will notice the similarity with GGRO.

Julian

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/BA62291F-FB48-4DA8-BF3B-3F0683DC8464%40scu.edu.

[Jan Ambrosini]

Hi Jennifer,

You asked good questions. In this thread we are discussing posting the daily summaries on a non-GGRO website so people can see what we're counting each day, while GGRO is "paused." This would have nothing to do with the Park Service. I don't know what happens once the official count resumes, but I'm sure nobody plans to have duplicate counts going on. I don't think anyone knows the long-term plan right now.

Jan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAGqHDYHixhxRWcri_Lu934HhCT02k_RUh_%3D_jvVt%2BP3pcpaHLA%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Jan Ambrosini

ambr...@gmail.com

[Julian Hyde]

So far no one has said they will use the server, or asked for the password so that they can post.

My time is limited, so I do not intend to work on the server until there is concrete interest.

Julian

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAM-nrZK%2B%3D9qosVjZ8bX0bUjG2qdyB%2BkBZ33QNJ%2BnjNgo4ABntw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Lindsay Addison]

Hi all,

I just wanted to say hello to everyone. I'm a 2010 intern and the GGRO was a wonderful field job (and I've had a few!) and the people, both volunteers and staff, I met were a huge part of that. The articles are very disheartening to me. I don't know what else to say. I'm very interested in being able to follow along in whatever way can be shared under whatever different name. It's just a bit of hope to see people still going up the hill and collecting the data.
Best,

Lindsay

---

From: 'John Farnsworth' via Hawkwatch Sat II <hawkwat...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2024 4:33 PM

To: hawkwat...@googlegroups.com <hawkwat...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [Hawkwatch: 5241] What’s going on?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/BA62291F-FB48-4DA8-BF3B-3F0683DC8464%40scu.edu.

[Sam Hontalas]

Looks like there's some indecision on selecting a name.  We'll try to push the DL group to finalize the name. Yes there is interest in posting to your server. It makes perfect sense. 

Thanks for making the effort Julian. Best  to you and the family   especially  Pamela's bread.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/EA2P220MB10956C6AC934D851202131C48E702%40EA2P220MB1095.NAMP220.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.

[Julian Hyde]

In the interests of making progress, I’m going to go with GGHW. As soon as the DLs take a vote and choose a different name I’ll change it.

Sam, I’ll send you the password and maybe you can share it with DLs (via private email).

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAA9pNk6f1Lsvb-Jya1HUwCHhrnMBHMkj0F38pZY%3Dm4dRM1xRdA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sam Hontalas]

Sounds good Julian.  We've had a separate DL contact list going for a couple of weeks now.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/6A1D4B6F-9EE5-461C-AF92-A07A16422400%40gmail.com.

[Mary Malec]

Sorry Julian---I posted a response to the wrong group

Golden Gate was the choice of the DLs.  Daily Hawk Count is what it's been called since the start so maybe we should stick with that for continuity.

Yes, send Sam and Jan a password.  Send one to me and I'll find another person among the DLs.  Then send us the link so we can let both HW and Bander DLs know where to find the count and we can disseminate to the public from there

Thanks so much for doing this

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/6A1D4B6F-9EE5-461C-AF92-A07A16422400%40gmail.com.

[Lisa M]

HI all,

I'm late to Sam's request for an update. Recently took a new job with the Napa RCD last month. Still getting situated and understanding my role, but the people and the place is great. Saw a barn owl on my drive into work the other day (very exciting) and several red-tailed hawks. Also saw a kestrel off of 37. That's been my only hawkwatch this year. I will try to get up on the hill sometime in the next couple of weeks to say hi.

-Lisa

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CALgPmnXGpUHVHBPfpUEytD1gCXNu96xZJOhy%2Bew3%2BWjP9dUKpw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sam Hontalas]

It's great to hear from Lindsay,  Rina, Bri and Lisa today.  Thanks for keeping  in touch.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hawkwatchsatii/CAAgkt%3Dj5KdwCZQ67PWhHOnT3acRfAwp8t8dqfb-LPYxSpENKBQ%40mail.gmail.com.