[Harp-L] What Cover-Plates Don't Do
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Jonathan Ross
Jan 16, 2013, 8:12:04 PM1/16/13
to har...@harp-l.org
The title of this thread is from a comment a friend made. His comment was that he pretty much knows what cover-plates don't do, it's what they do he's still a bit unsure of.
To that end, I thought I'd post my thoughts on the subject. For the most part I wanted to focus on what covers don't do. For this I'm mostly focused on traditional style covers. Significantly different designs for cover-plates like the Hohner CBH and the Suzuki Overdrive are going to behave differently in some regards, and will mostly be used to highlight these differences from from the standard design.
First, covers don't significantly affect the timbre of the harmonica. They don't do this in a variety of ways. The cover-plates don't enclose an area in such a way as to create a tuned resonant cavity which would effect either pitch or timbre. They don't vibrate in such a way as to effect the column of air moving through the instrument, not set of a resonant body of air which would then amplify their vibration with an audible effect. They don't reroute the air to the reed in such a way as to affect the timbre of the reed, nor to affect the reeds performance (with specific exceptions as mentioned above).
So, let's take these in order and look at them in more depth. The area under the covers is not specifically tuned to any pitch--the covers don't create a resonant chamber or body. The openings in all traditional covers are way too large to create a Helmholtz style resonator. Even if they were, the resonator would be set at a very specific pitch, and that would cause mismatches with the pitch of the reeds--reeds at a related pitch to the resonator would interact with it and have their timbre altered, reeds that were not connected harmonically would either be unaffected or fight with this resonator. But this doesn't happen. Most cover-plates are the same size and shape for the entire range of the harmonica, from lowF to highG, and the timbre of the harps are the same throughout that range. There is no fighting due to pitch, no interference and no amplification. It doesn't happen because the area underneath the cover-plates doesn't function as a resonator.
Next, consider vibration. Yes, covers vibrate. But the important question is not why they vibrate, but if that vibration has a significant effect on the timbre of the harmonica. There has been speculation on why covers vibrate, I would argue the most likely cause is that they are vibrating in sympathy with the vibrating column of air moving underneath them. But that's not particularly important. So the cover-plates vibrate, are they moving a large, enclosed body of air that would amplify that vibration? No. The air under the cover-plates is not enclosed and thus doesn't amplify the vibration. Tap the cover-plates. Unlike a guitar or other instrument where the sound is produced by a vibrating membrane over a resonant chamber of air, all you hear is a dull thud. Moreover, let's assume the vibration of the cover-plates is causing a body of air to be set in motion (it doesn't, but let's assume it), any sound that might emanate from them is masked by the massive column !
of air moving being set into vibration by the reed. The vibration of the plates would need to be amplified to a volume where it would significantly affect the column of air and alter the timbre. But as pointed out, the vibrations aren't amplified and so can't have that affect.
As for the routing of the air--the air that goes through the reed comes from all around the reed. It doesn't matter what route the air takes to get there--as long as no interferences occur and the air is not blocked off it doesn't even matter if the cover-plates are there or not timbre-wise. Cover-plates can affect pitch and performance of the reeds, as can be seen by the CBH and Overdrive. But consider these plates. These covers are designed with specifically tuned and sized chambers which do act as resonant chambers (not majorly, but a bit--it's not like attaching the reed to a tube the length of the standing wave of the pitch of the reed). So the reeds react differently to having the covers removed. The pitch can change a bit with the covers and without, and the reeds can behave in odd ways (particularly the decoupling during bending which can occur with the Overdrive). And the timbre is a bit altered due to the interaction of the reed's pitch and the chamber's pit!
ch. A bit being the important point here--this difference can be (and usually is) overwhelmed by attaching the instrument to a larger, flexible resonant chamber, ie the player.
So, cover-plates don't significantly affect the timbre of the harmonica (with noted exceptions which prove the rule for traditional designs).
What do cover-plates do. I'm not really sure either. Certainly they can be comfortable or not, which is important--comfort being the most likely reason why they were introduced to the harmonica in the first place. Possibly they can have a directional impact to the sound of the harmonica, but I wouldn't overstate that and most likely the listener would be less effected than the player in these cases. But for the most part, it's easier to say what the covers don't do than what they actually do.
JR Ross
To that end, I thought I'd post my thoughts on the subject. For the most part I wanted to focus on what covers don't do. For this I'm mostly focused on traditional style covers. Significantly different designs for cover-plates like the Hohner CBH and the Suzuki Overdrive are going to behave differently in some regards, and will mostly be used to highlight these differences from from the standard design.
First, covers don't significantly affect the timbre of the harmonica. They don't do this in a variety of ways. The cover-plates don't enclose an area in such a way as to create a tuned resonant cavity which would effect either pitch or timbre. They don't vibrate in such a way as to effect the column of air moving through the instrument, not set of a resonant body of air which would then amplify their vibration with an audible effect. They don't reroute the air to the reed in such a way as to affect the timbre of the reed, nor to affect the reeds performance (with specific exceptions as mentioned above).
So, let's take these in order and look at them in more depth. The area under the covers is not specifically tuned to any pitch--the covers don't create a resonant chamber or body. The openings in all traditional covers are way too large to create a Helmholtz style resonator. Even if they were, the resonator would be set at a very specific pitch, and that would cause mismatches with the pitch of the reeds--reeds at a related pitch to the resonator would interact with it and have their timbre altered, reeds that were not connected harmonically would either be unaffected or fight with this resonator. But this doesn't happen. Most cover-plates are the same size and shape for the entire range of the harmonica, from lowF to highG, and the timbre of the harps are the same throughout that range. There is no fighting due to pitch, no interference and no amplification. It doesn't happen because the area underneath the cover-plates doesn't function as a resonator.
Next, consider vibration. Yes, covers vibrate. But the important question is not why they vibrate, but if that vibration has a significant effect on the timbre of the harmonica. There has been speculation on why covers vibrate, I would argue the most likely cause is that they are vibrating in sympathy with the vibrating column of air moving underneath them. But that's not particularly important. So the cover-plates vibrate, are they moving a large, enclosed body of air that would amplify that vibration? No. The air under the cover-plates is not enclosed and thus doesn't amplify the vibration. Tap the cover-plates. Unlike a guitar or other instrument where the sound is produced by a vibrating membrane over a resonant chamber of air, all you hear is a dull thud. Moreover, let's assume the vibration of the cover-plates is causing a body of air to be set in motion (it doesn't, but let's assume it), any sound that might emanate from them is masked by the massive column !
of air moving being set into vibration by the reed. The vibration of the plates would need to be amplified to a volume where it would significantly affect the column of air and alter the timbre. But as pointed out, the vibrations aren't amplified and so can't have that affect.
As for the routing of the air--the air that goes through the reed comes from all around the reed. It doesn't matter what route the air takes to get there--as long as no interferences occur and the air is not blocked off it doesn't even matter if the cover-plates are there or not timbre-wise. Cover-plates can affect pitch and performance of the reeds, as can be seen by the CBH and Overdrive. But consider these plates. These covers are designed with specifically tuned and sized chambers which do act as resonant chambers (not majorly, but a bit--it's not like attaching the reed to a tube the length of the standing wave of the pitch of the reed). So the reeds react differently to having the covers removed. The pitch can change a bit with the covers and without, and the reeds can behave in odd ways (particularly the decoupling during bending which can occur with the Overdrive). And the timbre is a bit altered due to the interaction of the reed's pitch and the chamber's pit!
ch. A bit being the important point here--this difference can be (and usually is) overwhelmed by attaching the instrument to a larger, flexible resonant chamber, ie the player.
So, cover-plates don't significantly affect the timbre of the harmonica (with noted exceptions which prove the rule for traditional designs).
What do cover-plates do. I'm not really sure either. Certainly they can be comfortable or not, which is important--comfort being the most likely reason why they were introduced to the harmonica in the first place. Possibly they can have a directional impact to the sound of the harmonica, but I wouldn't overstate that and most likely the listener would be less effected than the player in these cases. But for the most part, it's easier to say what the covers don't do than what they actually do.
JR Ross
Steve Shaw
Jan 16, 2013, 8:23:28 PM1/16/13
to harp-l harp-l
> From: jro...@comcast.net
> The title of this thread is from a comment a friend made. His comment was that he pretty much knows what cover-plates don't do, it's what they do he's still a bit unsure of.
>
> To that end, I thought I'd post my thoughts on the subject.
Anything else, I'll take a lot of convincing!
Vern
Jan 16, 2013, 8:36:31 PM1/16/13
to Jonathan Ross, har...@harp-l.org
I agree with everything that you said. In addition............
In the 97 SPAH materials test, we played a CX12 with stock ABS covers and a CBX with solid Brass covers made by Siegfried Naruhn. No one could tell the difference. This shows that the materials of the cover plates do not perceptibly affect the sound. This is another way that covers don't affect sound.
You can tape up half of the opening at the rear of a harp and not perceptibly change the sound. Small changes in the cover shapes...like bending out the flanges...have no perceptible effect.
On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:12 PM, Jonathan Ross wrote:
> The title of this thread is from a comment a friend made. His comment was that he pretty much knows what cover-plates don't do, it's what they do he's still a bit unsure of.
>
> To that end, I thought I'd post my thoughts on the subject. For the most part I wanted to focus on what covers don't do. For this I'm mostly focused on traditional style covers. Significantly different designs for cover-plates like the Hohner CBH and the Suzuki Overdrive are going to behave differently in some regards, and will mostly be used to highlight these differences from from the standard design.
The partitions under the covers make it possible to cup some of the reeds separately. This can affect the timbre. Otherwise the timbre is unaffected.
They keep your hands off of the reeds and valves. Otherwise they serve no useful purpose.
> I'm not really sure either. Certainly they can be comfortable or not, which is important--comfort being the most likely reason why they were introduced to the harmonica in the first place. Possibly they can have a directional impact to the sound of the harmonica, but I wouldn't overstate that and most likely the listener would be less effected than the player in these cases. But for the most part, it's easier to say what the covers don't do than what they actually do.
>
>
>
> JR Ross
Vern
>
>
In the 97 SPAH materials test, we played a CX12 with stock ABS covers and a CBX with solid Brass covers made by Siegfried Naruhn. No one could tell the difference. This shows that the materials of the cover plates do not perceptibly affect the sound. This is another way that covers don't affect sound.
You can tape up half of the opening at the rear of a harp and not perceptibly change the sound. Small changes in the cover shapes...like bending out the flanges...have no perceptible effect.
On Jan 16, 2013, at 5:12 PM, Jonathan Ross wrote:
> The title of this thread is from a comment a friend made. His comment was that he pretty much knows what cover-plates don't do, it's what they do he's still a bit unsure of.
>
> To that end, I thought I'd post my thoughts on the subject. For the most part I wanted to focus on what covers don't do. For this I'm mostly focused on traditional style covers. Significantly different designs for cover-plates like the Hohner CBH and the Suzuki Overdrive are going to behave differently in some regards, and will mostly be used to highlight these differences from from the standard design.
>
> First, covers don't significantly affect the timbre of the harmonica. They don't do this in a variety of ways. The cover-plates don't enclose an area in such a way as to create a tuned resonant cavity which would effect either pitch or timbre. They don't vibrate in such a way as to effect the column of air moving through the instrument, not set of a resonant body of air which would then amplify their vibration with an audible effect. They don't reroute the air to the reed in such a way as to affect the timbre of the reed, nor to affect the reeds performance (with specific exceptions as mentioned above).
>
> So, let's take these in order and look at them in more depth. The area under the covers is not specifically tuned to any pitch--the covers don't create a resonant chamber or body. The openings in all traditional covers are way too large to create a Helmholtz style resonator. Even if they were, the resonator would be set at a very specific pitch, and that would cause mismatches with the pitch of the reeds--reeds at a related pitch to the resonator would interact with it and have their timbre altered, reeds that were not connected harmonically would either be unaffected or fight with this resonator. But this doesn't happen. Most cover-plates are the same size and shape for the entire range of the harmonica, from lowF to highG, and the timbre of the harps are the same throughout that range. There is no fighting due to pitch, no interference and no amplification. It doesn't happen because the area underneath the cover-plates doesn't function as a resonator.
>
> Next, consider vibration. Yes, covers vibrate. But the important question is not why they vibrate, but if that vibration has a significant effect on the timbre of the harmonica. There has been speculation on why covers vibrate, I would argue the most likely cause is that they are vibrating in sympathy with the vibrating column of air moving underneath them. But that's not particularly important. So the cover-plates vibrate, are they moving a large, enclosed body of air that would amplify that vibration? No. The air under the cover-plates is not enclosed and thus doesn't amplify the vibration. Tap the cover-plates. Unlike a guitar or other instrument where the sound is produced by a vibrating membrane over a resonant chamber of air, all you hear is a dull thud. Moreover, let's assume the vibration of the cover-plates is causing a body of air to be set in motion (it doesn't, but let's assume it), any sound that might emanate from them is masked by the massive colum!
> First, covers don't significantly affect the timbre of the harmonica. They don't do this in a variety of ways. The cover-plates don't enclose an area in such a way as to create a tuned resonant cavity which would effect either pitch or timbre. They don't vibrate in such a way as to effect the column of air moving through the instrument, not set of a resonant body of air which would then amplify their vibration with an audible effect. They don't reroute the air to the reed in such a way as to affect the timbre of the reed, nor to affect the reeds performance (with specific exceptions as mentioned above).
>
> So, let's take these in order and look at them in more depth. The area under the covers is not specifically tuned to any pitch--the covers don't create a resonant chamber or body. The openings in all traditional covers are way too large to create a Helmholtz style resonator. Even if they were, the resonator would be set at a very specific pitch, and that would cause mismatches with the pitch of the reeds--reeds at a related pitch to the resonator would interact with it and have their timbre altered, reeds that were not connected harmonically would either be unaffected or fight with this resonator. But this doesn't happen. Most cover-plates are the same size and shape for the entire range of the harmonica, from lowF to highG, and the timbre of the harps are the same throughout that range. There is no fighting due to pitch, no interference and no amplification. It doesn't happen because the area underneath the cover-plates doesn't function as a resonator.
>
n !
> of air moving being set into vibration by the reed. The vibration of the plates would need to be amplified to a volume where it would significantly affect the column of air and alter the timbre. But as pointed out, the vibrations aren't amplified and so can't have that affect.
>
> As for the routing of the air--the air that goes through the reed comes from all around the reed. It doesn't matter what route the air takes to get there--as long as no interferences occur and the air is not blocked off it doesn't even matter if the cover-plates are there or not timbre-wise. Cover-plates can affect pitch and performance of the reeds, as can be seen by the CBH and Overdrive. But consider these plates. These covers are designed with specifically tuned and sized chambers which do act as resonant chambers (not majorly, but a bit--it's not like attaching the reed to a tube the length of the standing wave of the pitch of the reed). So the reeds react differently to having the covers removed. The pitch can change a bit with the covers and without, and the reeds can behave in odd ways (particularly the decoupling during bending which can occur with the Overdrive). And the timbre is a bit altered due to the interaction of the reed's pitch and the chamber's p!
> of air moving being set into vibration by the reed. The vibration of the plates would need to be amplified to a volume where it would significantly affect the column of air and alter the timbre. But as pointed out, the vibrations aren't amplified and so can't have that affect.
>
it!
> ch. A bit being the important point here--this difference can be (and usually is) overwhelmed by attaching the instrument to a larger, flexible resonant chamber, ie the player.
>
>
> So, cover-plates don't significantly affect the timbre of the harmonica (with noted exceptions which prove the rule for traditional designs).
>
> What do cover-plates do?
> ch. A bit being the important point here--this difference can be (and usually is) overwhelmed by attaching the instrument to a larger, flexible resonant chamber, ie the player.
>
>
> So, cover-plates don't significantly affect the timbre of the harmonica (with noted exceptions which prove the rule for traditional designs).
>
They keep your hands off of the reeds and valves. Otherwise they serve no useful purpose.
> I'm not really sure either. Certainly they can be comfortable or not, which is important--comfort being the most likely reason why they were introduced to the harmonica in the first place. Possibly they can have a directional impact to the sound of the harmonica, but I wouldn't overstate that and most likely the listener would be less effected than the player in these cases. But for the most part, it's easier to say what the covers don't do than what they actually do.
>
>
>
> JR Ross
>
>
jro...@comcast.net
Jan 16, 2013, 9:21:49 PM1/16/13
to har...@harp-l.org
> You can tape up half of the opening at the rear of a harp and not perceptibly change the sound. Small changes in the cover shapes...like bending out the flanges...have no perceptible effect.
Agreed, though they may have non-timbral affects. Reshaping covers may make them stronger, which is a definite benefit, for instance. Also, some alterations might affect the projection of the instrument, particularly away from the player. Note the words some and might in that statement. It may be that covers like the CX-12 or the Turbolid have a directional affect which leads the player to perceive a difference in volume, but unlikely that a listener would notice any difference. Again, note the word may.
>> Significantly different designs for cover-plates like the Hohner CBH and the Suzuki Overdrive are going to behave differently in some regards, and will mostly be used to highlight these differences from from the standard design.
>
> The partitions under the covers make it possible to cup some of the reeds separately. This can affect the timbre. Otherwise the timbre is unaffected.
>> What do cover-plates do?
>
> They keep your hands off of the reeds and valves. Otherwise they serve no useful purpose.
JR Ross
Mike
Jan 16, 2013, 10:03:22 PM1/16/13
to har...@googlegroups.com
If I play a harp minus cover plates it sounds different. The timbre and volume are different than when assembled. If I use different covers,that is also true. For example, Sp20 covers make a Marine Band sound different than stock. They also feel different and change my embochure.
John
Jan 17, 2013, 3:09:12 AM1/17/13
to har...@harp-l.org
----- Original Message -----
From: jumpjive65jive To: <har...@harp-l.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 1:12 AM
Subject: [Harp-L] What Cover-Plates Don't Do
> It would seem to me that what the covers of harps do ----
is to make them appealing to the onlooker and encourage them to buy
after all could you see that many beginners buy a set of plates
attached to a comb and think, my I fancy learning to play that ?
Mund...@aol.com
Jan 17, 2013, 4:22:11 AM1/17/13
to johnatjumpj...@ntlworld.com, har...@harp-l.com
I like Blues Harp MS cover plates... They are thin, and make the harmonica
feel ALIVE as I play it...
Just my 2c worth...
John "Whiteboy" Walden
Just now in snowy Scotland...
In a message dated 1/17/2013 8:09:35 A.M. GMT Standard Time,
feel ALIVE as I play it...
Just my 2c worth...
John "Whiteboy" Walden
Just now in snowy Scotland...
In a message dated 1/17/2013 8:09:35 A.M. GMT Standard Time,
Jonathan Ross
Jan 17, 2013, 7:13:05 AM1/17/13
to har...@harp-l.org
John Walden writes:
"I like Blues Harp MS cover plates... They are thin, and make the harmonica
feel ALIVE as I play it..."
Have you measured them? I have no MS-harps to measure, but I don't remember the cover-plates of the MS-Blues Harp as being particularly thin at all.
"I like Blues Harp MS cover plates... They are thin, and make the harmonica
feel ALIVE as I play it..."
Of course, even if they were thinner than standard, it would have no effect on timbre.
Mike writes:
"If I play a harp minus cover plates it sounds different. The timbre and volume are different than when assembled. "
JR Ross
Mike
Jan 17, 2013, 7:23:54 AM1/17/13
to har...@googlegroups.com
I have used volume measuring tools as well as frequency analysis, but it was all in real time, so I didn't have pics. I can see if I can record audio of this though.
Mike
Jan 17, 2013, 10:39:19 AM1/17/13
to har...@googlegroups.com, har...@harp-l.org, jro...@comcast.net
JR,
I am NOT being snarky, but have you experimented with this regarding
measurement? There have been a couple of threads recently where theory has
been applied to what can/can't happen with a harmonica, but I am unaware of
even any anecdotal evidence describing this in the real world.
I readily admit to trying to measure some of these things but with limited
expertise in using tools. Generally, I've used an iPad with apps or what I
can pull up from the tools in Audacity. When I did a coverplate test some
weeks ago, I used Sound View, Decibel 10th, RTA, and iStrobsoft. The con
here being I am at entry level with how the first three work. In testing,
I was able to see what the mic was picking up, but had no way of accurately
taking a snap shot from the app. I figured out how to do a screen capture,
but that required two hands and I couldn't figure out how to play and snap
at the same time.
The changes in volume were the most obvious, but the sound pictures were
different too. I used a stock A Crossover and rotated between stock MB,
XO, and SP20 covers. This was for my own amusement, so I didn't fret
recording things or logging pictures of the frequency responses, etc.
There are SO many variables to consider that at its most basic interest,
regardless of the how, I can personally conclude that open XO style covers
are my favorite. MB covers that are opened would work too.
While I felt SP20 covers felt more comfortable and solid, the sound I was
hearing when playing was warmer and less present at both the same playing
pressure and volumes. One think I loathe about the SUB30 is the covers.
They make the harp very muted and quiet. Switching to Manji covers adds
3+db of volume by my basic measures, but I concede to not checking the
frequency response. Simple enough for me with four hands, lol.
I am NOT being snarky, but have you experimented with this regarding
measurement? There have been a couple of threads recently where theory has
been applied to what can/can't happen with a harmonica, but I am unaware of
even any anecdotal evidence describing this in the real world.
I readily admit to trying to measure some of these things but with limited
expertise in using tools. Generally, I've used an iPad with apps or what I
can pull up from the tools in Audacity. When I did a coverplate test some
weeks ago, I used Sound View, Decibel 10th, RTA, and iStrobsoft. The con
here being I am at entry level with how the first three work. In testing,
I was able to see what the mic was picking up, but had no way of accurately
taking a snap shot from the app. I figured out how to do a screen capture,
but that required two hands and I couldn't figure out how to play and snap
at the same time.
The changes in volume were the most obvious, but the sound pictures were
different too. I used a stock A Crossover and rotated between stock MB,
XO, and SP20 covers. This was for my own amusement, so I didn't fret
recording things or logging pictures of the frequency responses, etc.
There are SO many variables to consider that at its most basic interest,
regardless of the how, I can personally conclude that open XO style covers
are my favorite. MB covers that are opened would work too.
While I felt SP20 covers felt more comfortable and solid, the sound I was
hearing when playing was warmer and less present at both the same playing
pressure and volumes. One think I loathe about the SUB30 is the covers.
They make the harp very muted and quiet. Switching to Manji covers adds
3+db of volume by my basic measures, but I concede to not checking the
frequency response. Simple enough for me with four hands, lol.
Jonathan Ross
Jan 17, 2013, 12:42:57 PM1/17/13
to har...@harp-l.org
> I am NOT being snarky, but have you experimented with this regarding measurement? There have been a couple of threads recently where theory has been applied to what can/can't happen with a harmonica, but I am unaware of even any anecdotal evidence describing this in the real world.
> I readily admit to trying to measure some of these things but with limited expertise in using tools.
> The changes in volume were the most obvious, but the sound pictures were different too. I used a stock A Crossover and rotated between stock MB, XO, and SP20 covers. This was for my own amusement, so I didn't fret recording things or logging pictures of the frequency responses, etc. There are SO many variables to consider that at its most basic interest, regardless of the how, I can personally conclude that open XO style covers are my favorite. MB covers that are opened would work too.
> While I felt SP20 covers felt more comfortable and besolid, the sound I was hearing when playing was warmer and less present at both the same playing pressure and volumes.
I have a brass combed MB which I love. I often feel that it sounds different from a similar one with a composit comb. But, when I listen closely to the two and try to ignore feel issues, the timbre is unchanged. Granted we are discussing covers not combs, but the point is that my ears can be fooled into hearing what they want to, and I have to work hard to try and get around that. I would suggest that may be the case here.
However, if changes in timbre because of cover shape, material or the like can be tested and found to exist, that would be interesting. However, the hard part then would be to figure out why, since there are at present no reasons in theory as to why that would be the case. But I certainly encourage more testing--I would love an someone who actually works in acoustics to get involved.
JR Ross
Mike
Jan 17, 2013, 12:55:38 PM1/17/13
to har...@googlegroups.com, har...@harp-l.org, jro...@comcast.net
I don't have any, but it would be very interesting, IMO, to add to the
complex question the impact of things like powder coating on timbre. Are
you talking about the SPAH test? The best way to do any of these, IMO, is
to remove the human element. I need one of those music store testing
things.
complex question the impact of things like powder coating on timbre. Are
you talking about the SPAH test? The best way to do any of these, IMO, is
to remove the human element. I need one of those music store testing
things.
Jonathan Ross
Jan 17, 2013, 1:08:55 PM1/17/13
to har...@harp-l.org
> I don't have any, but it would be very interesting, IMO, to add to the complex question the impact of things like powder coating on timbre.
I doubt the coating would have any affect. There is certainly no good acoustic reason it would, and unless testing shows it then there is no reason I can see it would make any difference.
> Are you talking about the SPAH test?
> The best way to do any of these, IMO, is to remove the human element. I need one of those music store testing things.
JR Ross
Mund...@aol.com
Jan 17, 2013, 1:16:59 PM1/17/13
to jro...@comcast.net, har...@harp-l.com
I am not saying the projected sound is different! But it is just that I
find it nicer to play a harmonica that vibrates MORE rather than less when
I play it, that is... with thinner cover plates... OK, I don't think the
AUDIENCE will hear any difference at all. Also I like metal combs on my
harmonica, but again, the audience won't hear any difference! I simply like
the Hohner Blues Harp cover plates, which seem to vibrate MORE as I play...
I have no idea about the actual thickness.. But I know Hohner's Blues Harp
cover plates are much thinner than Hohner's "Meisterklasse" or than the
"Dannecker Blues" cover plates...
I find that as a harmonicist I PREFER a harp that vibrates MORE as I play
it... The cover plates make a VAST diference... Not to the "timbre" but to
the joy of playing!
The sound produced will probably sound the same, whatever....
Just my 2c worth!
John "Whiteboy" Walden
Just now, shivering in a wintry Scotland.
In a message dated 1/17/2013 12:13:34 P.M. GMT Standard Time,
find it nicer to play a harmonica that vibrates MORE rather than less when
I play it, that is... with thinner cover plates... OK, I don't think the
AUDIENCE will hear any difference at all. Also I like metal combs on my
harmonica, but again, the audience won't hear any difference! I simply like
the Hohner Blues Harp cover plates, which seem to vibrate MORE as I play...
I have no idea about the actual thickness.. But I know Hohner's Blues Harp
cover plates are much thinner than Hohner's "Meisterklasse" or than the
"Dannecker Blues" cover plates...
I find that as a harmonicist I PREFER a harp that vibrates MORE as I play
it... The cover plates make a VAST diference... Not to the "timbre" but to
the joy of playing!
The sound produced will probably sound the same, whatever....
Just my 2c worth!
John "Whiteboy" Walden
Just now, shivering in a wintry Scotland.
In a message dated 1/17/2013 12:13:34 P.M. GMT Standard Time,
brian.irving
Jan 17, 2013, 1:33:16 PM1/17/13
to Jonathan Ross, har...@harp-l.org
I've had a number of different types of covers powder coated and it doesn't
seem (to my admittedly aging ears!) to make any difference to the sound or
timbre! But they look great!
Brian
seem (to my admittedly aging ears!) to make any difference to the sound or
timbre! But they look great!
Brian
Larry Sandy
Jan 17, 2013, 6:57:51 PM1/17/13
to Jonathan Ross, har...@harp-l.org
Hi JR,
No disagreement here. I have read others' posts and just want to toss in my 2 cents, which are not worth a nickel. I am loving brass combs after I seal them perfectly but with the covers off of course they don't sound so great to me- haven't tried recording yet.
As for the covers themselves, some customizers open them and reshape them more open sometimes for better projection, and open the ends a little so the player can hear his playing better... but the audience likely does not hear any difference with them, unless the tones are not picked up by the mic as clearly.
However, having agreed with most of the posts I still have beliefs that wood and plastic covers sound differently to the audience than do metal covers. My wife says she can hear a difference when I pull out my Turbo covers... they're warmer she says, without knowing I am playing through them.
Regarding more or less rigid metal combs.... Sure we feel the vibrations with our hands and mouth but tight cupping surely would dull any tone the vibrations would have possibly projected. Not so sure on racked harps.
This is an interesting post and I hope it yields even more information before it retires.
Lockjaw Larry
No disagreement here. I have read others' posts and just want to toss in my 2 cents, which are not worth a nickel. I am loving brass combs after I seal them perfectly but with the covers off of course they don't sound so great to me- haven't tried recording yet.
As for the covers themselves, some customizers open them and reshape them more open sometimes for better projection, and open the ends a little so the player can hear his playing better... but the audience likely does not hear any difference with them, unless the tones are not picked up by the mic as clearly.
However, having agreed with most of the posts I still have beliefs that wood and plastic covers sound differently to the audience than do metal covers. My wife says she can hear a difference when I pull out my Turbo covers... they're warmer she says, without knowing I am playing through them.
Regarding more or less rigid metal combs.... Sure we feel the vibrations with our hands and mouth but tight cupping surely would dull any tone the vibrations would have possibly projected. Not so sure on racked harps.
This is an interesting post and I hope it yields even more information before it retires.
Lockjaw Larry
Tom Martin
Jan 17, 2013, 12:58:51 PM1/17/13
to Mike, har...@harp-l.org, jro...@comcast.net, har...@googlegroups.com
I have a question about cover-plates...does anybody know of any place that
will customize a cover-plate?
Tom
will customize a cover-plate?
Tom
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