[Harp-L] Dylan (and positions)

[drori hammer]

I was recently asked to join a Bob Dylan Tribute band. I am a fan of Dylans art and songwriting, but do not hold him in high esteem as a harmonica player. It seems to me that about 50% of the time he's missing, playing bum notes etc. The bandleader wants me to play "like Dylan". At first I felt bummed out about that, thinking "I can do so much better" and almost declined the gig.
However, I decided to go for it. I am a blues harmonica player, and I play mostly 2nd and 3rd position. I do some Dylan in my shows, but always in my own style. I suddenly realised that here is a chance to learn a style of playing that I have largely neglected : straight-ahead major-chord folk songsin 1st position. Also, some of the songs are in minor keys that really cry out for 4th position playing, something I've never done. So , I decided to take it as a challenge and a learning experience: to try to play "Dylan-style" but actually do it well (as well as I can, anyhow).
Should be interesting , anyhow

Dov Hammer
www.dovhammer.com
www.myspace.com/dovhammer
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[Vince Meghrouni]

Dylan orchestrates with the harmonica. I'd advise not to
underestimate what he does.

[Mark Russillo]

Drori -

I am inclined to agree with Vince. Dylan's harmonica playing is about the poetry and artistry of the song as a whole. The harmonica is more of a seasoning than a ingredient to those components, yet it is integral to the mix.

Mark Russillo
a.k.a. The Rhode Island Kid

[Sergei]

Agreed. Man in the Long Black Coat - greatest harmonica track, ever.

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[Garry Hodgson]

drori hammer <drori_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So , I decided to take it as a challenge and a learning experience: to try to
> play "Dylan-style" but actually do it well (as well as I can, anyhow).
> Should be interesting , anyhow

anything that gets you to play stuff you couldn't play before can't be all bad.

----
Garry Hodgson, Senior Software Geek, AT&T CSO

nobody can do everything, but everybody can do something.
do something.

[Jonathan Metts]

> Agreed. Man in the Long Black Coat - greatest harmonica track, ever.

It's definitely one of Dylan's best. He plays this song in F# minor on an A
harp... yes, Dylan plays 4th position! It's a great song to learn that
position, because he uses very few bends on it and you can pick it out by
ear.

As for normal Dylan-style 1st position playing, that will be a great
exercise in re-learning 1st position. His style is surprisingly hard to
imitate (though easily spoofed). One of his tricks is to play a single note
and, while holding it, widen his mouth to get a small chord. He also does
that in reverse, going from a chord to single note. You can learn a lot
about these techniques from the book "The Harp Styles of Bob Dylan" by Amy
Appleby. It's not a fakebook at all (only a dozen or so songs are tabbed
out), but the entire focus is on his harp playing and how to learn it. The
songs chosen by the author are quite diverse and include 1st, 2nd, and 4th
position playing. There are also detailed chord charts and guitar tabs for
those songs, which your guitar player might find useful.

The other excellent source I have found is Christer Svensson's list of the
harp key and position for just about every song Dylan ever played harp on.
You can find it here (bookmark it!):

http://www.dylanchords.com/harp/harpkeys.htm

Those two resources should help you tremendously in your tribute band!

Jonathan Metts, Official Harp-L Dylan Fanatic

[Dave Payne Sr.]

For those who can't read German, I translated the parts of the page. I had no clue what the German words "Dur" and "Moll" mean, but I found a cool page that translates music terms from a variety of languages. It is http://www.cadenza.org/glossary/search.cgi
"Dur" means "major" and "Moll" means "minor"
Here it is, I apologize ahead of time if I've translated something poorly.
Spiral tuning (also called circular letter tuning) means the arrangement of a scale on the usual blow and draw sequence without interuption. By removing interuptions, the circles from an octave change the blow/draw direction. If one visualizes this, the image of a spiral results.
Two characteristics arise as a result of the tone distrubution.
1_ The allocation of major and minor scale on the change results in that all scale chords are playable.

For example: Beispiel: C, C6, C7+, Dm, Dm7, Em, Em7, F, F6, F7+, G, G6, G7, Am, Am7, Hdim
Spiralstimmung Kanal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Blastöne c e g h d f a c e g Ziehtöne d f a c e g h d f a
2) Two patterns for each scale, which alternate from octave to octave, develops. Here, an example of the minor pentatonic scale: Pattern I Pattern II Pattern I Kanal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Blastöne 7 2 4 6 1 3 5 7 2 4 Ziehtöne 1 3 5 7 2 4 6 1 3 5 Pattern I Pattern II Pattern I

C.A. Seydel followed me with this structure, but decided on another designation: with Seydel the Spiral harmonica is called the circular. The Seydel arrangement here is called "Circular G" after the note designation of 1 blow. That says nothing about the scale it is based on. (Note from Dave, the G circular, is in the C scale).

__________________________________________________________________
Dave Payne Sr.
Harmonicas and music lessons
P.O. Box 3822
Parkersburg WV 26103

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[Richard Hunter]

"drori hammer" wrote:

> So , I decided to take it as a challenge and a learning experience: to try
>to

> play "Dylan-style" but actually do it well.

I'm not sure Dylan is really trying to make it sound like he's doing it well, and maybe he's not actually trying to do it well most of the time. So if you try to do Dylan-style but do it well, you're not playing Dylan-style.

I will explain what I mean by "do it well." Dylan's playing on his records through the 1980s is very limited. (I'm not familiar with his latest few releases.) He plays in different positions, but his basic sound and technique are very much the same from song to song. His sound isn't always the right sound for the song, either. His basic tone shaping techniques are few--he doesn't use a lot of different vibratos, he doesn't use his hands much to shape the tone (which seems obvious given that he's usually playing the harp from a rack), and he doesn't seem to be capable of producing a full tone from his gut. In terms of his note choices, he stays in the middle register a lot of the time, so he's usually missing the most expressive parts of the harmonica. This also is due in large part to the rack; when you're playing on a rack, you pretty much have to play the notes that are right in front of you, because the tone changes dramatically when you twist your head to play not!
es to either side. (You can hear that happening on a lot of John Mayall's records when he plays above the 5th hole; it's a completely different sound from his work in the low register, which is what he had positioned in front of his mouth on the rack.)

Partly because of the lack of variety in his technique, Dylan's harmonica sound is consistent, and I don't think he sounds like anyone else, though a number of people try to sound like him. In other words, the harmonica is part of what defines his sound. I think that's an achievement of sorts, but I tend to think that a lot more could have been made of the harmonica in his music. But maybe it wouldn't have sounded so individual if it had. Mere virtuosity isn't always as distinctive as something direct, personal, and even crude.

All that said, Dylan doesn't play the harp very well. I think a lot of players out there now could add something to Dylan's music with more expressive harp playing, and I think his audience would accept it as a deepening of the role of the instrument in his music. I doubt it'll ever happen, but who knows. He's certainly hired hot guitar players to back him up.

Regards, Richard Hunter
http:/hunterharp.com
harmonica blog at myspace.com/richardhunterharp
latest mp3s always at http://broadjam.com/rhunter

[Rick Dempster]

I always thought Dylan's harp playing on his very first album (1961, I think) was probably his most proficient. It always seemed to me that he became deliberately sloppier and more perverse as the years rolled on. I've actually been asked to 'sound like Dylan' on a session and politely told the producer (who was pefectly capable) to do it himself as he would have more success than I, having spent my career trying to be able to play the damned thing; to sound like Bob, it's best to just grab it and go. Disclaimer: I love everything about Bob, but not his harp playing particularly. However, without it, it wouldn't be Bob.
RD

>>> Richard Hunter <turtl...@earthlink.net> 23/10/2007 17:05 >>>

[Bradford Trainham]

Also... "Good"?
One might first define "goodness" and see if Dylan measures up to the
definition.
Dylan has seldom been about technical prowess with any instrument as
his emphasis has always been on behalf of "the song", that is, the
unity that comes about from lyrics, vocal delivery and musical
accompaniment.
People also take him to task for his vocals, his guitar chops, but as
one frequently complimented on singing and playing, I can tell you
Dylan was the one made me want to learn how to do it all.
Before I could sing without my voice cracking, being as it was only
recently to the "good" side of puberty, I could feel the energy of
Dylan's body of work drawing me in to sing, to write, to play guitar,
to play the harp.
I can sing now, play the guitar, play the harmonica and write songs,
but I have yet to get anywhere near him in his real element, lyrical
prowess.
Brad Trainham

[Bradford Trainham]

Glad you brought that one up as it constitutes an almost alchemical
treatment of harmonica, a singing voice hardly fit for singing in the
traditional sense and that wild production.
!!Mag-!!Nificent!!!
Brad Trainham