[Harp-L] Lone Wolf Harp break pedal and Sonny Jnr Super Cruncher comparison

[ian collard]

Hi,

I have made a short video comparing the Lone Wolf Harp Break pedal plugged direct into the P.A and a Sonny Jnr Super Cruncher, see if you can pick which is which?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWtQW2oTqs8

Ian


http://www.collardgreensandgravy.com/
http://onesheet.com/iancollard/splash/
http://onesheet.com/threekings/splash/

[Mike]

I liked tone number 1! I love my HarpBreak, btw!

[ian collard]

1st half is the Sonny Jnr and second the Harp Break.

http://onesheet.com/iancollard
http://collardgreensandgravy.com/
http://onesheet.com/threekings/splash/

[Mike Fugazzi]

The JR sounded great. The HB had a solid sound, but it was too dark, IMO.
I only play through the PA, and over the last couple of years have moved
more and more to just straight in. However, I use the HB for distorted
sounds. It can easily be set to have more cut, incase others were
wondering.
----------
Mike Fugazzi
vocals/harmonica
http://www.mikefugazzi.com
Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/MikeFugazziMusic>
YouTube <http://www.youtube.com.user/mikefugazzi>
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
<http://www.mikefugazzi.com/fr_customharmonicas.cfm>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:49 PM, ian collard <ianco...@optusnet.com.au>wrote:

> 1st half is the Sonny Jnr and second the Harp Break.
>
> http://onesheet.com/iancollard
> http://collardgreensandgravy.com/
> http://onesheet.com/threekings/splash/
>
> On 21/03/2013, at 1:58 PM, Mike <mikef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I liked tone number 1! I love my HarpBreak, btw!
>
> On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 5:33:09 PM UTC-5, ian collard wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have made a short video comparing the Lone Wolf Harp Break pedal
>> plugged direct into the P.A and a Sonny Jnr Super Cruncher, see if you can
>> pick which is which?
>>

>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=zWtQW2oTqs8<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWtQW2oTqs8>
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>> http://www.**collardgreensandgravy.com/<http://www.collardgreensandgravy.com/>
>> http://onesheet.com/**iancollard/splash/<http://onesheet.com/iancollard/splash/>
>> http://onesheet.com/**threekings/splash/<http://onesheet.com/threekings/splash/>
>>
>>

[Richard Hunter]

Both clips sound good--remarkably good for a harp on a rack, in fact. The first has a bit more high-midrange in the sound, the second more low-midrange. Either one would work in most bands. That said, the first sounds to me like the SJ, the second like the Harp Break to me. By the way Ian, are you still using the Digitech RP200?

Regards, Richard Hunter

author, "Jazz Harp"
latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
Myspace http://myspace.com/richardhunterharp
Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick
more mp3s at http://taxi.com/rhunter
Twitter: lightninrick

[ian collard]

Glad it helped,Lone Wolf Pedals are great and a more affordable and portable alternative to amps.

Ian

http://onesheet.com/iancollard
http://collardgreensandgravy.com/
http://onesheet.com/threekings/splash/

On 22/03/2013, at 6:27 AM, martin oldsberg <martino...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Many thanks to Ian for this demo. Useful and admirably concrete, and I must say, making a strong case for the Harp break, esp in view of the price difference of some several hundred percent (?). Nothing against the Sonny but for a poor boy favouring light travel in harmonica matters the case is closed.
> Cheers,
> /Martin
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> From: ian collard <

[ian collard]

Hi Richard,

very glad to hear you like the sound of the rack up setup that I am using and you are correct the Cruncher was used in the first half of the clip. I haven't tried RP 200 but I would love to give it a go one day,

Thanks,

Ian

http://onesheet.com/iancollard
http://collardgreensandgravy.com/
http://onesheet.com/threekings/splash/

[martin oldsberg]

[MARK BURNESS]

The "several hundred percent" price difference needs a bit more context really.
 
The Harp Break (or any other pedal/modeller) needs an amp (an output section, rated in Watts,  feeding speakers, whether it be SS/digital/tube) to make any sound at all. An "amp" may be heard from the back line, or also fed through a larger amp/PA..but it is a self contained unit capable of producing sound.
 
Preferences vary, of course, but they are different things & need each other, rather than being independent, mutually exclusive, entities/better/worse.
 
If you sell an "amp" to buy a pedal/modeller, then you need to buy/have access to another "amp" to make that device audible.

________________________________
From: martin oldsberg <martino...@yahoo.com>
To: "ianco...@optusnet.com.au" <ianco...@optusnet.com.au>; "har...@harp-l.org" <har...@harp-l.org>
Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2013, 19:27
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Lone Wolf Harp break pedal and Sonny Jnr Super Cruncher comparison

[Richard Hunter]

<MARK BURNESS wrote:
<The "several hundred percent" price difference needs a bit more context really.
<
<The Harp Break (or any other pedal/modeller) needs an amp (an output section, rated in Watts, feeding speakers, whether it be <SS/digital/tube) to make any sound at all. An "amp" may be heard from the back line, or also fed through a larger amp/PA..but it <is a self contained unit capable of producing sound.
<
<Preferences vary, of course, but they are different things & need each other, rather than being independent, mutually exclusive, <entities/better/worse.
<
<If you sell an "amp" to buy a pedal/modeller, then you need to buy/have access to another "amp" to make that device audible.

This is all correct, but it doesn't change the validity of the point: the "several hundred percent" figure is thoroughly accurate even when the amp is included. Here's the breakdown:

Assuming you purchase everything new at typical discounted retail prices, an amp modeler (like the Digitech RP355 or the Lone wolf Harp Break) runs between $100-$200. (You can get a used RP355 easily at Guitarcenter.com for less than $100, which is certainly what I'd do, but let's stick to the normal retail price for new for an accurate comparison.) A Peavey KB2 keyboard amp will run another $250; similar prices apply to mid-range powered speakers like the Mackie Thump (under $300) and Behringer B212D (about $250)--both well-regarded units with enough power for a wide range of gigs. The total for the setup is therefore between $450-500. (I suppose we can add another $20 for a guitar cable to connect the pedal to the amp, which you don't need when you're just running a mic to the amp.) So the total for an amp modeling setup that includes everything needed to gig (excluding the microphone, which is presumably the same price no matter what amp you're running behind it) is !
between $470-520 (again, assuming you buy everything new, which I wouldn't).

I bought my SJ Super Sonny at a considerable discount when Sonny was phasing out the Super Sonny in favor of the Cruncher and its newer siblings. Even so, the fully loaded cost of an amp modeling-based setup is just about 1/3 of the cost of what I paid for the Super Sonny. At normal prices, it would be about 1/4 the price.

In short, there is indeed a "several hundred percent" (specifically, 300%-400%)price difference between an amp modeler-based setup and a traditional big harp amp. If you ONLY include the amp modeler--which is feasible if you've got access to a PA for gigs--then the difference is closer to 1,000 percent (i.e. a factor of 10).

"Price" is only part of the "price for performance" calculation, and you can't compare rigs without comparing their performance in terms of volume, sound quality, etc., etc. I won't claim that my RP setups sound "better" than a Sonny Junior. I only claim that they sound damn good, and Ian Collard's side by side clips with an SJ and a Harp Break (not to mention the clips of Steve Baker, Marcos Coll, and myself playing through RPs at my site) obviously make the point. And that's just at the basic amp-plus-mic level. If you want to get freaky with your sounds--say, with the kind of FX that a John Popper or a Jason Ricci or myself use--then the price difference between a multi-FX box like a Digitech RP and a traditional rig augmented with a dozen traditional FX pedals on the floor is even steeper.

Plenty of the people reading this have a good-sounding traditional rig, and I wouldn't advise anyone to sell a rig that makes sounds they like. (I've done that, and I have regretted it, every time.) But when you want to add a big pile of new sounds to your rig, the fastest and least expensive route to that outcome by far is an amp modeler/multi-FX device.

I have no doubt that most harp players will eventually use amp modeling gear, as most guitarists already do. It is by far the least expensive route to a great amped sound. In every way that matters--price, sound quality and flexibility, ease of use, portability--the stuff just works. And in some of these ways, it is obviously far superior to traditional gear. I wouldn't put my Sonny Junior on an airplane unless I was ready to see it come off the plane in pieces--and that's even before we consider the expense of shipping an amp in an anvil case. But I can carry an amp modeler on board in my hand luggage, and when I get to the gig, I know exactly what I'm going to sound like: good.

Final comment: I presume we know that there's a difference between a Lone Wolf harp Break and a Digitech RP. The Lone Wolf (and other single purpose amp modelers like the Tech 21 Blonde, the Boss Fender Bassman FBM-1 pedal, and so on) emulates the sound of an amp; the RP emulates the sounds of a number of amps, plus pitch FX, modulation FX, delay, reverb, etc. In other words, the LW is an amp modeler; the RP is an amp modeler plus multi-FX. The key advantage of the former is simplicity in operation (because it does one thing); the key advantage of the latter is the variety of sound and FX (because it does many things). (I do what I can with my patch sets to make the RPs easy to operate.) We're all lucky to have these kinds of choices. People talk a lot about vintage gear, but I can tell you for sure that the stuff we get now is better in EVERY, repeat EVERY way--better sounding, more durable, MUCH less expensive--than the gear we struggled with in the 60s and 70s.

Thanks and regards, Richard Hunter

[Mike]

LW Harp Break with power supply $163
RCF 310a (I use a QSC K10 which is overpriced) $549.99

I've used just the K10 with full bands - up to 10 pieces and have competed
with guitar stacks and bass stacks. If you are gigging, then odds are
there are vocals. Vocals require amplification through a PA and odds are
there is an extra channel to line out to for FOH sound. If there isn't, it
is a small enough room where a powered speaker will probably work turned
towards the audience.

I probably won't have one tonight of just the HB, but here is a clip of the
HB with other pedals straight into my mixer.
http://mikefugazzi.com/files/Blues_Pedals.mp3 The HB by itself sound a
bit rattier and has more highs.

I am NOT a super strong blues player, but paired with a bullet mic, I think
this is a very convincing sound. I played over most the harp and did some
tongue blocking, etc. The song is 5min long and even I get bored listening
after the first few turns, lol, but you'll get the point. The entire rig
was a HB into a Flat Cat into a MXR Carbon Copy into a BBE Sonic Maximizer
into a custom bullet from Greg Heumann (99S556 element).

[Mike]

I paid full price for the mic, but bought everything else on sale or new:

K10: $500 used
HarpBreak: $100 used
FlatCat: $115, I think...got it on sale from Jason Ricci...was cheaper than list price anyways
MXR: $100 new via best offer on eBay
Sonic Stomp: $40 used
Pedal Board: $25 used
Power Supply: $20 new

I could, and maybe should, just as easily use only the HB. I sing too, so a good floor wedge was a must...and technically that is why I bought it to begin with. So really, for me, the K10 was already paid for.