[Harp-L] RE: Harp Depot
Danny G
I've bought several harmonicas from John Hall when he had Harp Depot. I met Doc and Richard when John sold the business.
I've bought thirteen Hohner Super 64X's , Three Suzuki SC64's, Two Suzuki Magic Gardens and two Suzuki SCT 128's from Harp Depot since Doc took over the business. These were one at a time purchases, I bought most of them at festivals but several I ordered online or over the phone. I've had problems with a few of the Hohner's but they were manufacturing problems which after sending them back to Hohner were quickly resolved.
I've become friends with Doc and Richard over the years but it became a friendship because they have been straight up guys and had treated me well when I did business with them.
Doc and Richard attended my last "Danny G's Harmonica Lovers Party" and donated several really nice harmonicas which were raffled off. I know of at least a dozen little kids and a few Vets who Doc gave "American Freedom Harps" to.
I don't want to discount Dave's problem but my experience tells me this is an isolated incident. With the way things are in the world today, Tom should probably contact Customs in Switzerland to see if his order is being held up there.
If Harp Depot or any business treated their customers the way he described his experience, they wouldn't be in business very long and certainly SPAH, Buckeye, Garden State or any other club would not have them as a vendor at their festivals.
I would think a call to Harp Depot leaving the message "have Doc or Richard call me at this number" or a letter to Harp Depot explaining what happened with a copy of the cancelled check and BBB complaint numbers along with "Attention Doc" written on the envelope would get a quicker response than calling them names and trashing them here where they can't defend themselves.
Danny G
_______________________________________________
Harp-L is sponsored by SPAH, http://www.spah.org
Har...@harp-l.org
http://harp-l.org/mailman/listinfo/harp-l
Ken Deifik
>calling them names and trashing them here where they can't defend themselves.
Frankly, the only reason I am interested in this story is because I believe
Harp-l is the perfect place to discuss harmonica vendors. I had a great
experience with Harp House and I let everyone here know that
immediately. Same with Suzuki. Where better to reward good behavior than
here? Where better to allow well-intentioned companies to fix serious,
possibly unique, customer service problems and let a huge pool of customers
know they did?
I'm not clear why the owners of Harp Depot can't defend themselves
here. If someone feels they are being wronged, let 'em know and offer to
either publish their defense here in a post or let them know how easy it is
sign on and make a post themselves. The net works both ways. But it works.
One very important aspect to this is that unlike in the big world, it'll
take very, very little for Harp Depot to regain their good reputation
here. Either give the guy his check or explain, convincingly, why they ain't.
My hope is that we'll hear from them, saying this was all a big
misunderstanding and David has gotten his full refund. Making him prove
that he paid them was the right thing to do, but then ignoring him for
months on end after that is the wrong thing to do. Stuff slips through the
cracks, now's the time to make sure they know it has and if they're the
good guys people say they are they'll hop to and make good.
Unless they can make a convincing argument that David is not owed any money
(he's made a pretty good case that he is) then tell them to just send him a
check and this all goes away. If one of their employees ripped him off,
it's their responsibility, and making it right is a cost of doing business.
K
fjm
the searchable archive, plus the google group, plus the yahoo archive.
A quick google search using the company in question as the search term
gets you through page one with only information regarding the company or
the former owner. Page 2 has some customer comments several of the
archived from a harmonica discussion group. So the potential audience
is really the entire internet. We index pretty high in a search. fjm
Danny G
>From the offline emails I've received in the few minutes since I made my first post here, It seems that I've opened a can of worms.
Bob wrote to tell me "Silence only works to feed the assumption of the negative"
Since I've only recently joined the list, I've been silent since Danny Wilson created Harp_L. (negative ?)
I wrote about my positive experiences dealing with Harp Depot because they were my experiences.
I paid for them and I know about them. If I'd have had a bad experiences I would have written about it.
I've never seen a post by Doc or Richard here (Harp-L) or on Slidemeister. I doubt that they subscribe but I don't know.
In my mind, not subscribing to the list would make them unaware that there is a problem and explain their not responding.
It wouldn't make them thieves.
I agree with Ken that this is a great place to air grievances and/or give credit to vendors.
However, a public forum is not a good place to be slanderous. That can land you in a ton of trouble.
I'm not disbelieving or discounting the problems other people say they've had. I don't blame anyone for being upset or vocal if they think they've been cheated, disrespected, or treated badly. I don't think that because I haven't had problems that other people have not had problems. I honestly do not believe that Doc Belcher is aware of the problems I'm reading about.
He's too good a person and too good of a business man to ignore or disrespect his customers. I hope you guys (Dave and Tom) get your harmonicas.
My part of this discussion is over, .
Returning now to "Silence is Golden"
Danny G
Bill Hines
I've seen too many complaints on this and other harmonica forums from
numerous individuals (I doubt they were all outside the US) in the past
year against this one particular vendor (and don't remember any
complaints against any others) to believe this.
Bill Hines
Hershey, PA
Bob Laughlin
The "silence" I was referring to in my OFFLIST post was not your silence,
but rather, the silence of Harp Depot in the face of the allegations that
have been leveled against them (it/her/him?) over the period of time I've
been reading harp-l. It seems most of the complaints I've heard on this
forum, and from what others have said, on other forums as well, have been
concerning the responsiveness, or rather the UN-responsiveness of Harp Depot
in terms of delivering what they've promised, or even answering honest
questions in a timely manner concerning customer expectations. Though I've
never dealt with them on a business level, I'd be one who wouldn't tend to
take the risk without having heard some answers to these allegations.
They've apparently (though reports of satisfaction in some cases have
weighed in their favor) both LOST customers as well as not having GAINED
new ones, through the present controversy, which seemingly hasn't just
recently developed. They couldn't possibly hope to profit from this reported
pattern of unresponsiveness, could they?
I don't doubt that this whole matter could be settled before too long, in a
good way, if communication is made, both privately, and publicly. That's
good business.
BL
Ken Deifik
>"my experience tells me this is an isolated incident"
>
And yet this is a huge opportunity for Harp Depot to look great in front of
all of us by resolving this quickly now.
When I worked for that mail order company I mentioned, things regularly got
screwed up. Management was very disorganized. (The main reason we
fulfilled and resolved issues ASAP was that the cracks through which things
could fall were positively gaping.)
When I got an angry call from a customer I'd first of all give the caller
my full name and direct phone line, and tell them to write it down as I was
taking full responsibility to resolve the issue. I then made sure the
resolution was my next order of business and would turn angry people into
loyal customers in a few minutes.
By the way, in terms of using the tools of the internet to get the
attention of companies, a few days ago Sony evidently announced that if you
wanted to buy one of their computers without all the preinstalled
"crapware" (i.e., all kinds of crippled software that you do not want) you
had to pay $50 extra. The social news websites lit up and Sony retracted
their $50 fee today.
Also in current web-osity, Seth Godin ran a story today in his blog where
he discussed how Microsoft resolved a screwup with a customer in a unique,
funny, satisfying fashion. Godin pays off his story in the following way:
"Do you know what most people [customers] want? They want you to care."
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2008/03/secret-shortcut.html
A paying customer emailed me recently to say that their copy of Music For
Small Audience was damaged in the mails. It was playable, but the jewel
case was busted. Could they send it back to me and get a new one? I told
them they could not do that, but that I would send them a new copy
immediately on the condition that they gave the other copy to someone who
might like it. Now I'm a hero.
Harp Depot would really look good if they'd resolve this quickly
now. Screwups happen to everybody. For smart companies they are an
opportunity.
Vern Smith
I have updated the www.Hands-Free-Chromatic.7p.com website to reflect recent
design improvements. There are also many added testimonials. All but one
of the pictures are new.
I would like to have your comments.
Vern
Bruce Lambert
trouble with them....at least at the time i ordered, which was close to a
year ago. that was then.
i've earned my living from my own very small businesses for over 40 years of
my life and know the real world situations that small businesses have to
deal with to exist and/or grow, as i'm sure many of you do. fortunately i
learned early that one of the most important issues for growth is open
communication with customers and potential customers. providing totally
honest information about a particular product, information about delayed
shipments, or about any aspect of business or product that relates to that
customer. integrity makes the difference.
it boils down to an often used phrase called 'customer service' , basically
it means that you actually function as though you care for and appreciate
your customer or potential customer. if you provide this you most likely
will succeed, if not, probably not. it takes only a few 'public'
discussions of your failings to stop potential customers from even risking
doing business with you, even if you have the lowest prices.....there are
many alternative business to buy from.
if i were in the harp business, i would be tuned to harp-l and ALL harp
related forums on a regular basis to find out what harp folks thought, what
they liked, what they didn't, etc...... and if i were in the harp business
and didn't pay any attention to harp-l and other harp forums, it would
probably be because i thought i didn't have the time to waste reading the
forums.....or....that maybe i thought i already knew all i needed to know.
however, in the current internet business style, forums can do a lot to make
or break a business in a specialty field such as harps....and quite quickly.
although i don't know the owners of harp depot, those on this forum who do,
speak highly of them. as though it is their belief the owners are honorable
people.....and i certainly hope so.
however, when a customer is so dissatisfied and feels as though they may
have been cheated and yet takes the time to get a copy of a cashed check,
etc and submit it to harp depot, and i'm assuming all of this is factual and
true, and still not receive any reply....this is completely un-businesslike
and not an acceptable action by any business in my opinion.
only harp depot can discuss or defend their action in this or any instance
relating to them and their business practices....and i hope we hear from
them soon on harp-l.
bruce
Bob Laughlin
Seems wisely worded so as to give the customer no guarantee of reliable service. Even "answers" are hard to come by, from the text.
Hmmm,,
http://www.harpdepot.com/email.cfm
G. E. Popenoe
out Zappos.com.
They sell shoes. Free delivery and free return. The product gets to
you in a couple of days max.
One time they sent the wrong size shoes in a box marked my size. I
returned the shoes with the comment describing what happened. When
they confirmed what I claimed, they immediately e-mailed me a discount
code for $20 off the next pair of shoes along with an apologetic note.
My dad would always say, "Son, the customer is always right!"
Even if there is some confusion and both parties feel they are in the
right, Harp Depot is potentially suffering damage to sales that far
exceed the value of the customer's purchase.
Gary Popenoe
Rubben Emmanuelli
I made an order thru internet, pay with my credit card, i recieve the
confirmation number...and then no more comunications, no response
emails...nothing/ THANKs they never charge anything to the card.
But comunication is a must with a new customer and now i wont buy anything
from them, i simply dont trust them...
Coast to Coast was great and Kevin's Harps are great too!
I'm using Bushman cause i bought one in F....and i love it , But the other
keys seem kind of low on volume...Anyone here use them? thats another topic
--
Comuna de Santos
www.santificate.net
www.myspace.com/comunadesantos
Este email no puede ser considerado SPAM mientras incluya una forma de
remocion, para ser removido permanentemente de nuestra base de datos, envie
un email con la palabra REMOVER a esta direccion.-
john
below..
Basically, it says "don't bother us". The policy of charging a credit card for an
item known to be not in stock (back-ordered) is not discussed here. I think most
folks would agree that no charge should be made until an item ships. This is
certainly not the first time a Harp Depot customer found it necessary to go to the
media (Harp-L) to try to get reasonable service from this company. Too bad it
has to come to that.
---------------- from Harp Depot website -------------------
Our aim is to ship all orders within 24 hours. Sometimes that doesn't happen. We are at the mercy of wholesalers, who also run out of produts from time to time. The best way to follow up on an order that has already been placed is to email Doc at Harp Depot. If you feel you need to call, call us at 740-382-0770, which is our regular telephone number, and recognize we usually do not start to do follow-ups until we close. However, we prefer email messages regarding your follow-up, and will generally respond to an email faster. Leave your name, telephone number, email address (if you have one), message, invoice number (if you have one), date of order, and what you ordered. Allow us 5 working days and we will get back in touch with you, most likely with the answer to your questions. Those answering our regular telephone are taking orders and do not have access to the information usually required for follow-up on orders. Do not send multiple emails in a day or week.
We are one of the largest suppliers of Harmonicas in the USA - a fact which keeps us very busy. It's not possible for us to answer every email or telephone number we receive immediately. If you have order changes or other questions, you're best off to email us immediately. If you still wish to email us click here. If we answer-ed every email or telephone call immediately, we would get very little done, so we work in batches of emails or messages, usually.
We do not have a walk-in store. If you want to come to our offices and warehouse, you need to call ahead of time so that we can schedule and appointment, which will assure that we have sufficient staff to serve you. If you show up without an appointment, we will be unable to serve you. To get an appointment, you must be prepared to spend at least $500 with us.
Payne David
Dave
____________________
Dave Payne Sr.
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Vern Smith <jev...@fea.net>
To: har...@harp-l.org
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:51:46 PM
Subject: [Harp-L] Hands-Free-Chromatic (HFC)
To friends, HFC owners, potential customers, and the curious:
I have updated the www.Hands-Free-Chromatic.7p.com website to reflect recent
design improvements. There are also many added testimonials. All but one
of the pictures are new.
I would like to have your comments.
Vern
steve abercrombie
Steve
Icem...@aol.com
You don't have to take a seminar in customer service/relations to own a
business.
Anyone can own a business. Some business owners have no business owning a
business. Some business owners run their business based on their own philosophy.
In a free market, choose a business who's philosophy is congruent with your
own.
Personally, I like to check "references" and the grapevine. More than three
complaints usually indicate a business running on a philosophy that is not
congruent with mine.
I, personally, won't do business with Harp Depot.
The Iceman
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Ken Deifik
>I think most folks would agree that no charge should be made until an item
>ships.
That's actually written into the contract with the card company. Yet
another reason my company shipped so quickly.
Jim Jospe
jj
The Iceman
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
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9:54 AM
joseph ginther
i feel i need to comment on mail orders from the intenet,,, i have been buying harps for many years at a store in new jersey(sold me many harps on the email and never had many problems), the one time i did they made it good and actually sent me a free harp worth about 25 bucks.... a great response,,,, with ebay i never had any problems that couldn't be settled easy, so i do think ebay is a great service and has great deals( used harps may need work so watch what you do there).....my worst experience was trying to buy hot tub parts,,,,they back order stuff so they can use your money and they do not give you real access to customer service,,in the end you waste so much energy that the buying process becomes a frustrating joke....my suggestion is to go straight to your credit card company and dispute the charge...it usually sends them a message that can hurt their income real fast and you get credit pretty quick,, the people on the phone know the system and the internet
compaints do not get reviewed,,, so the best thing is to not use anyone except merchants that are referred by someone you know...just like hiring a contractor or picking a dentist....take care... joe g
Vern Smith
----- Original Message -----
From: "Payne David" <da...@elkriverharmonicas.com>
To: "Harp L Harp L" <har...@harp-l.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Hands-Free-Chromatic (HFC)
> So, let me get this right, Vern, the player presses the mouthpiece down
> when he plays.
There is no more conscious "pressing down" on the mouthpiece than the player
does on a conventional chromatic. The mouthpiece stays in contact with the
comb without any deliberate action on the part of the player.
> Then he wants an accidental, he lightens the pressure,...
The player isn't conscious of any lightening of pressure, it just happens
with all players...part of the "magic" of the HFC.
>...drops down and plays.
The player deliberately nods, moving his lips and the mouthpiece down about
4mm to align the holes with the lower reed chambers of the harp. This
directs the air to the "black key" # & b reeds on the lower reedplate.
> It sounds like it could be interestingly tight if played right.
The tightness doesn't depend on player technique. It is leak-free for
everybody. The only player techniques that are important are generating a
nice throat vibrato without hand-cupping and the musical challenge of
playing harmonica simultaneously with another instrument. I lap the plastic
mouthpiece and the comb mating surfaces to a flatness tolerance of less than
.0005". Wood is too unstable to hold such a tolerance in the presence of
variable breath moisture.
> Very straightforward description. Also noticed you used a Seydel Chromatic
> DeLuxe for the base harp, that's a good choice...
The Seydel Chromatic Deluxe has nicely finished covers and comes very well
tuned and gapped from the factory. I used one as my main conventional harp
for a year before incorporating it into the HFC design. I have molded my
own polyurethane plastic combs since Farrell's injection-molded plastic
combs became unavailable.
> Dave
Thank you, Dave, for your for your questions and comments.
Vern
Visit my harmonica website www.Hands-Free-Chromatic.7p.com
Frank Evers
Am Sonntag, 23. März 2008 schrieb john:
> Allow us 5 working days and we will get back in touch with you,
> most likely with the answer to your questions.
Wow, reading that in fact convinces me never to order there.
My favorite retailer for "all things harmonica" recently missed one of
my orders due to internal problems. I'm used to receive a
confirmation email the same day i order (and more often than not
these confirmations are sent late at night which reads to me, that
they try not to let their customers wait).
When i didn't get that confirmation within two days i wrote an email
and got answer instantly. They apologizd many times in their answer,
sent my order the same day with a faster shipping service than they
usually do and when i opened the package only 20 hours (!) after my
request i found an extra goody added for free!
This is even a better service than i'd expect, but it's a great
example what great customer service can be.
Telling customers not to bother me on phone, better send an email and
shut up for at least a week before bugging me again or expecting
answer (let alone expecting me to deliver) is nothing to be
called "customer service" at all.
--
Gruß,Frank
Joe and Cass Leone
before I go into it, note the following:
I have NO rooster in this fight.
Harp Depot is giving a 40% discount. That means that an item that
they sell for $100.oo 'could' cost $166.67 (PLUS tax = $178.33) in a
music store. On a recent trip to Europe, I noticed that the same
chromatic was going for Eu 167.oo. When you add the VAT, the total
is EU 183.70. When you factor in the exchange rate, that's equiv to
$259.oo U.S.
Conclusion: Harp Depot is taking a lot of abuse for very little
profit. They need to work on this image problem. :)
So, first thing I noticed were the office hours (10-4). Ok, that's 6
hours..But WAIT, there's more. An hour off for lunch equals a 25 hour
week.
1.... I see this as 'Banking' hours
2.... I see this as a 'retirement' job
3.... It appears that 2 people handle everything
4.... On the one hand they say they are very busy and don't have time
for shenanigans
5.... On the other hand, they can't seem to handle the business they
DO have.
6.... Apparently they need another helper
7.... Problem 1 is that if they hire a helper, they have to cut the
profit ANOTHER slice
8.... Problem 2 is that I don't know too many people who would even
TAKE a job for 25 hours a week
9.... When I was a mail boy for Pittsburgh Plate Glass I did packing
(all day)
10.. I think I could average a package (out the door) per 5 min (tot
= 60 per day)
11.. I don't SEE a whole lot of profit on 60 orders
12.. I don't think BOTH people running the place are packing all day
13.. The site connects to MYRIAD other products and the impression IS
that they do ALL this stuff.
I can come up with another dozen factors but I don't want to drudge
everyone.
Conclusion: The operation isn't working enough hours. As a student of
automated business systems,
the glaring fact is that they have allocated NO time for customer
relations. The shame is that Doc and Richard are REALLY nice guys.
Reminds me of an old ethnic joke (my mother used to hate). These 2
guys have a truckoad of several hundred watermelons. They bought them
for a 98 cents apiece and are selling them for $1.oo. At the end of a
long day, they have an empty truck, and after buying a couple gallons
of gas, they have actually broken EVEN. One asks the other "How come
we didn't make any money"? The other one says "We need a bigger truck".
smokey-joe
rbee...@comcast.net
Bob Laughlin
I'm certain, that on a limited, personal, and selected basis, these two,
"Doc and Richard", are "REALLY" nice guys. Trouble is, "niceness" isn't what
they're selling (maybe they SHOULD be, from what some have stated here), and
secondarily, how "nice" can you be to leave your customers stranded with
questions unanswered? Neither of these men being omnipotent, omnipresent,
nor omniscient, "niceness" can only go so far, in the real world.
I would also say that further "niceness", further attributes such as
"answerability" and "timeliness" are necessary business characteristics, to
be called upon when the apparent "niceness" isn't readily available.
Since some here are responding that these two are indeed "nice", and others
are echoing the sentiments of those who feel, or have felt cheated in some
way, it becomes apparent that there comes a time when some, due to
constraints of time and resources, and human capacity, become victim to
these limits, in that they perceive a lack of care, or even of concern or
interest, inasfar as fulfilling their requests for product or even service
oriented timely response.
I've heard of this before, in some context,,"businesses that don't plan
adequately for the growth factor."
Maybe these guys are TOO nice, letting their personalities write checks
their available resources can't back up.
But then again, the website DOES seem to warn of disappointing possibilities
on the supply side.
BL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe and Cass Leone" <le...@ewol.com>
To: <har...@harp-l.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Harp Depot
David Payne
I was looking at the chromatics and saw a link for "Harmonica slide lubricant." I clicked on it and there was a bottle of Astroglide. Now, I'm just a poor West Virginia boy trying to make a living and not accustomed to y'all's mysterious, good-timin' city ways, but back home on the Elk River, folks usually don't put their Astroglide on a 270. ;)
If I can ever stop laughing, I'll come to the conclusion that it would probably work very well on a slide.
Dave
____________
Dave Payne
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
Joe and Cass Leone
secret way of lubricating the slide WHILE I'm playing.
smo-joe
Joe and Cass Leone
On Mar 23, 2008, at 8:47 PM, Bob Laughlin wrote:
> "The shame is that Doc and Richard are REALLY nice guys."
>
> I'm certain, that on a limited, personal, and selected basis, these
> two,
> "Doc and Richard", are "REALLY" nice guys. Trouble is, "niceness"
> isn't what
> they're selling (maybe they SHOULD be, from what some have stated
> here), and
> secondarily, how "nice" can you be to leave your customers stranded
> with
> questions unanswered?
Sure, I agree. I DID say that they needed some work. See, it's all a
numbers game here. In this automated world, there is less and less
personal human contact/inter actions. If a business sells to (let's
say) 886 customers and 6 get stung, that leaves 880. Actually, to be
perfectly frank, a business can still survive. Maybe they have to
move an awful lot of harmonicas to see daylight?
I like to call it the 'restaurant syndrome'. You can go into
restaurants in New York City and get a positively rotten meal. Your
complaint will likely be handled by 'Rocco'. So, best to just leave
and never come back. But OH....wait a minute. With 9 and some odd
MILLION people living in the area, they might could care less if you
EVER come back.
Same here in Fla. for different reasons. None of the locals go to
certain restaurants. They are pricey, fancy, have an impressive menu
BUT, the food is marginal. What with the snow birds and tourists, all
they have to catch you napping is ONCE. Then your money goes into
their 'cash flow'. (The idea being to always operate on YOUR money). :)
My (personal) feeling is that HD (like the commercial) are letting
their business paperwork get in the way of their business. In other
words, there IS no paperwork. Thusly, orders get fouled up. Example:
Richard Farrell (God rest his fine soul) ran a mom and pop business.
If you got him on the phone, you 'might' get your order placed
correctly. If you got his wife, this might happen:
1... I called and got his wife. She took my order. 2 days later
Richard called and said 'they' (the famous 'they) lost my order.
Sooo, he wanted me to tell HIM what I ordered.
2... Being a detective, the first question I asked was: "If you did
indeed loose my order, HOW did you know to call ME. After all, my
order was lost. That would mean that 'I' was also lost".
3... In any case, I repeated my order. A week later my order came.
But WAIT...it was my ORIGINAL order. How did I know? Because I had
added an EXTRA diatonic the second time. This order was sans the
diatonic. Right away I got suspicious and called. I was unable to
reach Richard on several tries. I was trying to make certain that
only ONE order was sent. He never returned my calls.
4... A week later a SECOND order came. It was my 're-order'. I tried
to return the first order and mailed it back to Ohio. It came right
back to me saying that "We do NOT take returned merchandise". To make
a long story short, I had my second order (worth $215.oo) and I was
now stuck with the FIRST order too ($201.oo) PLUS F O U R charges
for shipping. This was a lot of money back then.
5... Over several conversations, it never WAS rectified, and I never
spoke to him again. Meanwhile I was barred..yes, that's right, I was
barred from ordering from him ever again.
> Neither of these men being omnipotent, omnipresent,
> nor omniscient, "niceness" can only go so far, in the real world.
For sure, I wasn't debating that. Not at all.
>
> I would also say that further "niceness", further attributes such as
> "answerability" and "timeliness" are necessary business
> characteristics, to
> be called upon when the apparent "niceness" isn't readily available.
>
> Since some here are responding that these two are indeed "nice",
> and others
> are echoing the sentiments of those who feel, or have felt cheated
> in some
> way, it becomes apparent that there comes a time when some, due to
> constraints of time and resources, and human capacity, become
> victim to
> these limits, in that they perceive a lack of care, or even of
> concern or
> interest, inasfar as fulfilling their requests for product or even
> service
> oriented timely response.
>
> I've heard of this before, in some context,,"businesses that don't
> plan
> adequately for the growth factor."
That's what I was sayne. There was no allowance in their time
for..what word should I use?...accuracy?
>
> Maybe these guys are TOO nice, letting their personalities write
> checks
> their available resources can't back up.
I think it's a time factor. Hopefully they can rectify this.
>
> But then again, the website DOES seem to warn of disappointing
> possibilities
> on the supply side.
And that has also been bothering me. I think that 'face sheet' may be
left over from when the business was in Indiana? I don't know,
because I don't remember.
Joey
>
> BL
David Payne
Dave
____________________
Dave Payne Sr.
Elk River Harmonicas
www.elkriverharmonicas.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Joe and Cass Leone <le...@ewol.com>
To: David Payne <da...@elkriverharmonicas.com>
Cc: har...@harp-l.com
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:14:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Harp Depot
smo-joe
Ken Deifik
>If a business sells to (let's say) 886 customers and 6 get stung, that
>leaves 880.
But a business where the 6 can speak to the 880 with the click of a button,
and where the 880 can go elsewhere, had better do some more math.
I am talking through my hat somewhat, but I've read over and over again
about how merchants who can stand to lose six customers like that thrived
in a time when the customer had 'imperfect information'.
Harp-l improves our information as customers with choices substantially,
has this weekend anyway.
I STILL want to moderate my judgement of Harp Depot, I still want to
believe that they're going to make good. Making good, along with an
apology - that rather than perfection is all we can expect.
I am especially excited about the idea that as a group we may well be
exerting pressure on Harp Depot to simply become a better citizen of the
harmonica community. I'd rather see more companies selling harmonicas than
fewer.
But unless our community represents a tiny subset of their customer base,
and it may well, then our community represents a SUBSTANTIAL part of their
customer base, and they have gotten in a bad odor with alot of us this
weekend. People have read their policy pages pretty carefully this weekend
and reported back to the rest of us. Those words sound pretty honest and
straightforward to me. They appear to admit that they may or may not work
hard for you as a customer. That's a really unique policy statement. It's
honest, but it doesn't make me want to give them my business. I'm glad
they're nice guys, but sheesh.
Zebulon's new post just makes them look that much worse.
In the end, as long as there is more than one place to buy harps one the
internet, I'm going to give my business to the vendors that treat their
customers as well as I try to treat mine.
I will repeat my experience with Harp House. I ordered a harp that they
said was available. They got back to me a couple of days later to tell me
that they had made a mistake, that it was not available, would I like to
purchase something else or simply cancel my order. I canceled my order
without any problem. They also apologized.
Then three months later, out of the blue, I won $450 worth of merchandise
in their summer giveaway, simply because I was still in their database.
THAT'S how to compete when the customer has excellent information.
Ken
ronnie
in the key of C and one in the key of low F.I was billed for both but received the C harp. I called a week later and asked about the low F.They said it was on back order and
would be shipped soon .About a week later I get the low F
the next week I get another low F and another the following week .Isent the two back I didnt order but never heard from them.Messed up way to do bidness! Ron
Roger A Gonzales
harmonica retailer gets a bad reputaion or any kind of bad press. I have ordered a couple of
Toots Hard Bopper from Harp Depot without any problems at all. I guess I should count
myself fortunate I haven't had any problem with them at all.
However, I have a suggestion. I didn't read this in any posts, someone may have offered this
suggestion, if so it probably bears repeating. Begin to develop a rapport with a music store
in your area that you feel you can trust. If they sell harmonicas, talk to them. Tell them your
a working harp player and you need someplace to deal with consistently that you can trust.
(But, don't try to do this at a Guitar Center.) Harmonicas are usually not one of the hottest
selling items and what they have in stock, they will probably want to bargain with you to
bring the price down a bit.
Even if you have to order something special from them they will usually order it for you and
will not charge you for it until they receive delivery of the item so your not paying for
something you don't have.
I do alot of business with a local music store for pretty much everything I need. Chords,
effects, amps, mics as well as harps. The prices are very competitive and most of the time
they will even match what price you see at mail order places like Harp Depot.
If you are a working musician its always a good thing to develop a good rapport with a local
music store anyway. Its also a great place to network, get your name out there and meet
some other musicians and even get more gigs.
This beats having to deal with the "where's my harp" stuff. I do have to agree that there is
nothing more frustrating than to have to deal with a voice on the phone or an email when
your money is at stake.
Hope this helps.
regards,
Roger Gonzales
Fresno, CA.
Icem...@aol.com
When I began teaching in the Orlando area, the local Sam Ash store worked
with me on a special harmonica deal for new students. New student would go to
Sam Ash, choose a harmonica, say "The Iceman Sent Me", and receive it at a
small discount.
In a message dated 3/24/2008 12:09:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
go...@csufresno.edu writes:
Begin to develop a rapport with a music store
in your area that you feel you can trust. If they sell harmonicas, talk to
them.
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Roger A Gonzales
gets a bit of a discount the music store gets a new customer and you get a thanks you when
you go back into the music store. I even have a couple of music stores that will refer me for
lessons or gigs when someone is in need of a harmonica for studio work or whatever. If you
keep the rapport up, you will consistently get discounts competitive with mail order outfits.
Thanks Iceman!!
regards
Roger Gonzales
Fresno, CA.
----- Original Message -----
From: Icem...@aol.com
Date: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:57 am
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Harp Depot
Joe and Cass Leone
On Mar 24, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Icem...@aol.com wrote:
> Not a bad idea - if you don't ask, you'll never know.
>
> When I began teaching in the Orlando area, the local Sam Ash store
> worked
> with me on a special harmonica deal for new students. New student
> would go to
> Sam Ash, choose a harmonica, say "The Iceman Sent Me", and receive
> it at a
> small discount.
>
>
Hmmmm, "The Iceman sent me". That's rather chilling. lol
smo-joe
D Berger
It works for me at Steve's Music in Rock Hill, NY.
-Dan
Mund...@aol.com
Shipped across the Atlantic.
Their service was first class!
NO COMPLAINTS, just PRAISE for a job well done...
>From my experiance they are a very good supplier of harmonica goods.
John Walden
London
England
Garry Hodgson
> Hmmmm, "The Iceman sent me". That's rather chilling. lol
yeah, if you say, "The Angel Of Death sent me" you get a bigger discount...
:-)
--
Optimism and pessimism don't exist for me.
I'm a blues man. I am a prisoner of hope.
I'm going to die full of hope.
- Cornel West
ms...@optonline.net
Loved the Suzuki Promaster, and to a lesser extent, the Bluesmaster. I found the Special 20 to be more airtight than the the Bushman Delta Frost or Soul's Voice.
Anyway, Harp Depot... The original order arrived so fast I was amazed, but the Soul's Voice A I ordered (and as listed on the packing slip) was an A flat.
I called the next morning and the gentleman I spoke to said he would send the correct harp with a return authorization DHL label. I received it two days later, sent the other harp back, and case solved.
Mark Moldowsky
Shawn
here on harp-l. If they have what you ordered in stock, or you ordered in
person, great! When they are back ordered, have problems (on-line), etc...NO
Communication. I have not heard one person say, I had a problem with them
and they handled it quickly and favorably. It's either, "they sent my order
promptly", or "they never sent or said a thing". I have been reading about
them here for at least 3 years. I won't give them my business based on what
I have read here and other forums, based on frequency of problems. That's
several hundred $ they have missed out on. Coast2Coast has always called me
the next day at minimum when messages are left, and keep their website up to
date on what's in stock. I had 1 problem with them and it was handled
quickly with great communication(initiated by them). Rupert Oysler/Seydel
has been awesome/quick to deal with too and I've emailed him a few times. I
have friends that recommend Harp House. Never heard a complaint about any of
those. There are more out there that I have not heard complaints about.
Where I live, there ain't much choice for harp sales in music stores. I have
almost always ordered on-line. For those that are newer on the -L, check the
archives. This is NOT a new discussion. I am surprised they are still in
business. Bushman has had supply issues for a while (my opinion), but Harp
Depot's communication problem can't be blamed anywhere else.
I just ordered again from Rupert 2 days ago for $150, and will be making a
Coast2Coast order soon. :-) Thanks for the good service!
Shawn Williams
http://code29band.com
http://www.myspace.com/bosqueblues
Robert Ross
that leaves 880.
That is the old-word (pre Internet) short sighted thinking that is a
major reason why most online businesses are not successful
financially. You see, as I said in my earlier post on this, the issue
is Cost of Acquisition (COA). It can cost hundreds of dollars in some
fields to acquire a new customer online, but say in the harmonica
business it costs only $30 (not an unusual number). 6 x 30 =
180...which is more than the money they are saving by ignoring the
six customers you seem to think don't make a difference, and more
than their average sale in all likelihood. In the overall schemes of
things on a small website, that could be a good part of the NET
profit for a month or week or day or whatever). It isn't
insignificant.
- Robert
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Mund...@aol.com
I've bought from Harp Depot, and have never had any problems at all!
John Walden
Dennis Fischette
I have done business with Harp Depot on a number of occasions and Richard has always gone out of his way to accommodate my needs. They are A-1 in my book.
Dennis Fischette
_________________________________________________________________
In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008_______________________________________________
rbee...@comcast.net
Robert Ross
a problem with them. Although it is considerate of you to share those
stories to balance the equation, please remember that doing so is a
bit like defending your next door neighbor who beats his wife, then
on the 6:00 news saying something like "well, he was such a nice guy,
I never had a problem with him." Explain how nice a guy he was to his
wife in the hospital.
You see, I have followed this thread closely and can assure you there
are many more complaints that haven't even been posted. When it comes
to complaints, statistically (this is a known phenomenon) each
complaint represents many incidents that have not been reported.
Whereas the converse is not true. So in fact several positive stories
do NOT counter the negatives posted so far, not by a long shot. Of
course, given the nature of the Harp-L community, I am assuming that
nobody is trying intentionally to trash a business with phony stories
for personal gain.
I actually had a bad experience with a different harmonica dealer
last year, placing an order and waiting ages for delivery without
communication despite my numerous calls and emails. I did eventually
get what I ordered months after the fact. However, I never complained
on Harp-L, or anywhere, about it since the subject never came up, so
perhaps it was an isolated incident. In the case of HD, one complaint
and rebuttal led to a series of people coming out and sharing a
common experience, showing a pattern of policy and behavior that is
not acceptable.
If 3 people complain, then 7 people share a positive note, that
doesn't mean that the business is just fine. It means that they have
a track record of 30% problems. If you are running a business that is
wrong 30% of the time, your customers will not want to to business
with you and you will probably fail eventually. If you were an
employer and had a worker who screwed up 30% of the time, or even
20%, how long would you put up with that before firing him or her?
So all the defending arguments ultimately hold little water,
especially since the complaints represent a larger pool of unvoiced
problems.
That is why customer service is so much more important than the
product. It has to do with another online business concept that I
haven't shared yet, called Customer Retention. The cost of customer
retention is far lower than the cost of acquisition, so it makes more
sense to bend over backwards to keep a customer.
Also, each customer you lose is potentially a land mine. In the
online community customers you mistreat and lose often share those
experiences, damaging your business credibility and trust. There are
places in the world that have had terrible wars, where the opponents
filled the landscape literally with land mines. Today, those wars are
long over, but those economies may never recover since many of them
were tourist economies and tourists are reticent about going places
that they have heard are filled with land mines. Even though
statistically very few people have had a leg blown off by a land mine
in recent years, tourists understandably get nervous about things
like that. Long after the land mines are gone, tourists will remember
them.
On the internet, where a dozen competitors are just a mouse click
away, customer service, not BRAND, may be all that differentiates you
(more business concepts, branding and differentiation) from the
competition, and even branding ultimately requires building brand
confidence and brand loyalty based on trust, i.e., good customer
service. So your bottom line is not measured in dollars, it is
measured in the value of your "house list." A house list (OK, one
more business concept) is your customer mailing list. A house list is
so valuable that if it is a good one you can rent it to other
businesses for thousands of dollars. Your house list is more
valuable to you than any other list you can buy - but ONLY if you
have credibility and trust with your previous customers. Repeat
customers, brand loyalty, is one of the most valuable assets a
business can have.
I guess I've made my point. That'll be my last lecture on my online
business theories for awhile - it's just that I not only am a
stickler for great customer service in my own businesses, I demand it
as a customer.
Thanks,
Robert
www.rawfoodlife.com
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Bill Rossoll
I bought a lot of things from him and talked to him on the phone a
couple times.
He always provided great service and seemed to have a top notch spin on
how to run a business.
Then, I had an order take a turn for the worst.(can't even remember now
what it was.)
I got the old run around.
"It's on back-order" or "your order got lost" and so on
I like to think I was polite and patient in resolving the matter.
Finally, after much follow-up, the order arrived.
Not long after, I ran into someone who was also a customer and inquired
what was going on at F&R Farrell.
She informed me that Mrs. Farrell had passed away and that this was the
cause of the difficulties I experienced.
I felt like kind of a heel. Not that I did or said anything to warrant
that. I just did.
Well, OK, I know this has nothing to do with Harp Depot but, I figured,
if he's looking down on this from somewhere, I would use it as an
opportunity to say "I'm sorry for bugging you at a time that must have
been awfully trying".
.
Mund...@aol.com
They shipped very quickly, and at very competitive prices, despite being on
a different continent from me. Even with the extra tax/VAT, from buying from
a non EU country, it was about 30% cheaper than by buying from a European
supplier. I recommend them as an excellent source of harmonicas and accessories.
John Walden
London
England
Robert Koch free
Please, contact me off list... I have info for you from Steve Baker.
Thank you.
Sunnyside in France