[Harp-L] Re: Info for Original Song for Festival
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Jay Dougherty
May 15, 2014, 11:15:14 PM5/15/14
to har...@harp-l.org
Hi Hal. If you write original lyrics and/or melodies, and you "fix" it
in some tangible form of expression (e.g. write it out in notation or
record it), under U.S. law, you automatically own a copyright in a
"musical work". It is desirable to register it with the U.S. Copyright
Office, but not necessary in order to own the copyright. It's desirable
because if someone infringes your work after you register it, you have
the possibility to get some extra possible remedies (an important one
being possible attorneys fees if you win an infringement suit--it can be
expensive to pay one without that). I'm not sure what it is you're
trying to protect, but note that a "style" or "groove" or a simple
percussion pattern or general "ideas" and standard musical material
(e.g. a I-IV-V 12-bar blues progression) won't be copyrightable. Your
particular expression of that groove (i.e. your words, melody and other
musical expression) can be. You can get more information and register
your song (and your recording, for that matter) with the U.S. Copyright
Office: www.copyright.gov. There's lots of useful information about
copyright and registration there, as well as the possibility of doing an
online registration.
I hope this helps, but it does not constitute legal advice. If it did,
you'd have to get a bill!
Best,
Jay
Jay Dougherty
Professor of Law
Director, Entertainment/Media Law Institute & Concentration Program
Loyola Law School | Los Angeles
919 Albany St.
L.A., CA 90015
Ph: 213-736-1461
http://www.lls.edu/aboutus/facultyadministration/faculty/facultylistc-d/doughertyfjay/
On 5/15/2014 6:01 PM, harp-l-...@harp-l.org wrote:
> Send Harp-L mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: History of harp tuning - A "minor" correction (Robert Coble)
> 2. Re: History of harp tuning - A "minor" correction (Music Cal)
> 3. Re: History of harp tuning (Richard Hunter)
> 4. Re: History of harp tuning (Joseph Leone)
> 5. Harp-l search question (Buck Worley)
> 6. Re: History of harp tuning (Music Cal)
> 7. Re: chris reynolds' acrylic combs for chromatics (Joseph Leone)
> 8. Re: History of harp tuning (Joseph Leone)
> 9. Re: "harp-l lurkers" (Warren Bee)
> 10. Info for "original" song for festival (Hal Iwan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 17:11:43 -0400
> From: Robert Coble <robert...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning - A "minor" correction
> To: Harp-L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU176-W51F64465D...@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> >From Steve Baker:
>
> "*Lee has told me that all of them together make up less than 2% of his turnover.*"
>
> The "Lee" in that post would be Lee Oskar, the principal in the Lee Oskar Harmonica Co.,
> which actually sells Japanese-made Tombo brand harmonicas, relabeled for the USA market.
>
> Steve gave no numbers for Hohner, even though he is directly associated with Hohner.
>
> I hazard an educated guess that Hohner's numbers for altered tunings overall would be
> a smaller percentage of total sales than Lee Oskar. Why? Because there are only a couple
> of possibilities across the entire Hohner line for altered tunings.
>
> If you want to figure out what a large multinational corporation will do, follow the money.
>
> Back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
> Crazy Bob
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 14:31:24 -0700
> From: Music Cal <macaro...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning - A "minor" correction
> To: harp-L list <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAOn7XaODoOQvchVRUQSY3X6m...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Right, Robert. I should have said that my assumption is that the 2% number
> was a Lee Oskar number rather than a Seydel number.
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Robert Coble <robert...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> >From Steve Baker:
>>
>> "*Lee has told me that all of them together make up less than 2% of his
>> turnover.*"
>>
>> The "Lee" in that post would be Lee Oskar, the principal in the Lee Oskar
>> Harmonica Co.,
>> which actually sells Japanese-made Tombo brand harmonicas, relabeled for
>> the USA market.
>>
>> Steve gave no numbers for Hohner, even though he is directly associated
>> with Hohner.
>>
>> I hazard an educated guess that Hohner's numbers for altered tunings
>> overall would be
>> a smaller percentage of total sales than Lee Oskar. Why? Because there are
>> only a couple
>> of possibilities across the entire Hohner line for altered tunings.
>>
>> If you want to figure out what a large multinational corporation will do,
>> follow the money.
>>
>> Back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
>> Crazy Bob
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:04:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
> From: Richard Hunter <turtl...@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning
> To: har...@harp-l.org
> Message-ID:
> <33128431.140019508...@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> <Steve Baker wrote:
> <
> <"This would appear to refute claims that the introduction of new tuning
> <systems will increase the appeal of the harmonica (whether diatonic or
> <chromatic) and boost sales. Unfortunately the evidence all points the other
> <way. "
> <
> <I disagree with the claim you made. Consider these two customer groups:
> <etc...
>
> I have championed alternate tunings, beginning with the country tuning, since the publication of my book "Jazz Harp" in 1980 (which Steve Baker credited on this list as inspiring him to take up the country tuning, which he now uses by his own estimate on about 1/3 of his pieces--thanks Steve!). My two solo (as in unaccompanied) harmonica CDs, released in 1995 and 1998 respectively, both featured alternate tunings extensively. I'm certainly not the only player who's made extensive use of alternate tunings; as PT Gazell remarked to me when I asked him what instruments he and Brendan Power used on their duet CD, "who knows what Brendan was playing." (Indeed. Whatever Brendan is playing at any given point in time, you can bet that it's substantially different from what the rest of us are using, not to mention anything we've ever seen.)
>
> In other words, plenty of prominent players have made extensive use of alternate tunings, live and on record, but as per Steve's comments, only a small fraction of all harmonica sales represent these tunings. I've given up trying to figure out why so few players reach for this low-hanging fruit, but there it is.
>
> Past is not necessarily future, but I tend to agree with Steve that introducing new tuning systems, some of them radically different from traditional Richter systems, will not change the picture much, perhaps unless (or until) some dazzling player comes along who captures the imagination of millions with, say, a Powerbender in her hands. Until then, I think it's asking a lot of manufacturers to tool up and turn out millions of instruments that are very likely to sit on shelves worldwide forever.
>
> If you disagree, then do the only thing that will get those manufacturers to move: go out there and buy alternate tuned harmonicas, and encourage your friends to do the same.
>
> In the meantime, I'm just grateful that I can still get my hands on these instruments in a reasonable amount of time and at a reasonable cost, if not instantly and for free at every store in my neighborhood.
>
> Regards, Richard Hunter
>
>
>
>
>
> author, "Jazz Harp" (Oak Publications, NYC)
> Latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
> Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick
> Twitter: lightninrick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:09:48 -0400
> From: Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning
> To: Music Cal <macaro...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Harp L Harp L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <66208AF4-84B9-4597...@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Music Cal wrote:
>
>> Steve Baker wrote:
>>
>> "This would appear to refute claims that the introduction of new tuning
>> systems will increase the appeal of the harmonica (whether diatonic or
>> chromatic) and boost sales. Unfortunately the evidence all points the other
>> way. "
>>
>> I disagree with the claim you made. Consider these two customer groups:
>>
>> (1) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. Out of frustration
>> with the pitch layout they lose the desire to play the instrument. No
>> future sales follow.
> I would like to add group (1)a. To wit: Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. And out of, and I hesitate to call it frustration, but more likely annoyance
> with the pitch layout, they change something so that they don't loose the desire to play the instrument. And yes, although future sales follow, they do NOT register as
> sales of anything other than standard tunings.
>> (2) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. They accept the
>> pitch layout and continue to play the instrument. Future sales follow.
>>
>> The majority of those who would consider playing an alternate tuning would
>> be players who have already invested time and money in the playing of the
>> harp.
> This makes the most sense.
>
>> That is, they will belong to group (2). It would be a hard sell to
>> get a big fraction of group (2) to switch to an alternate tuning.
> This is logical.
>
>> Hence the
>> 2% market number that you gave (I am assuming these are Seydel's numbers
>> since Hohner and Suzuki do not offer alt tunings).
>>
>> So how does a manufacturer appeal to those in group (1)?
> Offer alternate tunings. (Such as done with 'so called' country tuning). Surharges commensurate with difficulty. Like, for country...no charge. Configurator tunings...noticable.
> AND I believe that Seydel, because they have come out from behind the 'curtain' only relatively recently, have, out of necessity, to (as Avis says), try harder.
>
> smo-joe
>
>> This is not an
>> easy question. Entrenchment of defacto standards have in the past been
>> considerable hurdles to change. But like Brendan I think that a number of
>> factors will change this inertia. I think the manufacturer that figures
>> this out will reap significant rewards. In the meantime the manufacturers
>> might benefit by offering (at extra cost as does Seydel) all of their harps
>> in alt tunings so that we can through experimentation play a significant
>> role in helping manufacturers figure this out while enabling us to take the
>> art in new directions.
>>
>> Daniel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 18:27:12 -0500
> From: Buck Worley <boog...@msn.com>
> Subject: [Harp-L] Harp-l search question
> To: "har...@harp-l.org" <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <SNT147-W1620C710F...@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am trying to use the harp-l archives for posts on 7 limit JI . Not getting any results. I know this subject has been discussed recently. Can someone give me a path or tips on what URL or anything that will help me. Thanks, Buck
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 16:28:48 -0700
> From: Music Cal <macaro...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning
> To: Harp L Harp L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAOn7XaMiLc9tGQrpRXof4SJqNibtPPQ_JeC=7PhVdCv...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Smo-joe
>
> Thank you. That is an excellent point you made about group 1a and the
> under-counting of alt tuning market by using sale figures alone.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On May 15, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Music Cal wrote:
>>
>>> Steve Baker wrote:
>>>
>>> "This would appear to refute claims that the introduction of new tuning
>>> systems will increase the appeal of the harmonica (whether diatonic or
>>> chromatic) and boost sales. Unfortunately the evidence all points the
>> other
>>> way. "
>>>
>>> I disagree with the claim you made. Consider these two customer groups:
>>>
>>> (1) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. Out of
>> frustration
>>> with the pitch layout they lose the desire to play the instrument. No
>>> future sales follow.
>> I would like to add group (1)a. To wit: Those that purchase or borrow a
>> standard tuned harp. And out of, and I hesitate to call it frustration, but
>> more likely annoyance
>> with the pitch layout, they change something so that they don't loose the
>> desire to play the instrument. And yes, although future sales follow, they
>> do NOT register as
>> sales of anything other than standard tunings.
>>> (2) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. They accept the
>>> pitch layout and continue to play the instrument. Future sales follow.
>>>
>>> The majority of those who would consider playing an alternate tuning
>> would
>>> be players who have already invested time and money in the playing of the
>>> harp.
>> This makes the most sense.
>>
>>> That is, they will belong to group (2). It would be a hard sell to
>>> get a big fraction of group (2) to switch to an alternate tuning.
>> This is logical.
>>
>>> Hence the
>>> 2% market number that you gave (I am assuming these are Seydel's numbers
>>> since Hohner and Suzuki do not offer alt tunings).
>>>
>>> So how does a manufacturer appeal to those in group (1)?
>> Offer alternate tunings. (Such as done with 'so called' country tuning).
>> Surharges commensurate with difficulty. Like, for country...no charge.
>> Configurator tunings...noticable.
>> AND I believe that Seydel, because they have come out from behind the
>> 'curtain' only relatively recently, have, out of necessity, to (as Avis
>> says), try harder.
>>
>> smo-joe
>>
>>> This is not an
>>> easy question. Entrenchment of defacto standards have in the past been
>>> considerable hurdles to change. But like Brendan I think that a number of
>>> factors will change this inertia. I think the manufacturer that figures
>>> this out will reap significant rewards. In the meantime the manufacturers
>>> might benefit by offering (at extra cost as does Seydel) all of their
>> harps
>>> in alt tunings so that we can through experimentation play a significant
>>> role in helping manufacturers figure this out while enabling us to take
>> the
>>> art in new directions.
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:30:35 -0400
> From: Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] chris reynolds' acrylic combs for chromatics
> To: Harp L Harp L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <AFB188AA-4ECD-477A...@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>> There's a lot to be said for acrylic combs.
> I have sitting here in front of me a very old Hohner 270 in the key of F. The comb is walnut and the plates are on with wood screws. Not bolted all the way through plate to plate. Each side has it's own set of screws. About 1/2 inch (12.7m) from the spring end is a ragged crack. Obviously a flaw in the grain of the wood. A half inch farther from the right end is a clean crack (a seam between 2 pieces).
>
> The chromo needed a new spring. I happen to use #2 safety pins. Because they are chromed and not thin cadmium plated. When I took the cover plates and mouth piece assemblies off to get at the spring retaining pin. The entire end of the comb crumbled in my hand. I was able to change the spring, and holding the entire right end of the assembly together with what seemed like THREE hands, I was able to get it all back together..and straight..and operating well.
>
> It's only a matter of time before the whole thing goes south. An acrylic comb will (generally) cure all of this. Better than that crumbly old pink plastic that Hohner used to use on their 280s.
>
> smo-joe
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:49:06 -0400
> From: Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning
> To: Music Cal <macaro...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Harp L Harp L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <836E0B9F-CA01-40EB...@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Dan
> The reason why I brought it up was not to be a wise guy. I have been using what some might call an altered tuning since the fall of 1959. So, that's almost 55 years.
> Here's the deal. What happened is that I started on chromatic first. That was spring of 56. So I was already used to having all the notes..so to speak. When I came home from Paris, my old friends back here in the U.S. wanted me to join their doo-wop group. I was to be baritone/bass voice. And at times toss in some trumpet and harmonica.
>
> I was mildly annoyed that no matter what I did, there was a note I couldn't get. It seemed that when I played a tune in one key, and we got to the bridge, I needed the 5th note draw to be a sharp. Seemed to be like that on almost everything I played. And didn't matter the key, as the 5th or 7th or whatever it was...wasn't there. I proceeded to retune ONE reed. The 5 draw. So that would make the harp altered..no?
>
> In didn't do this to all my diatonics. Just a couple. Eventually I tried other things. Raising the 9 draw. Placing a wind saver on the 5 draw. Placing wind savers all over the place. Eventually I settled on only ONE wind saver. Having a bunch of them wasn't necessary for the stuff I was doing. Now the reason why I don't believe I was doing anything new is because the Egyptians were already shaving in 4241 bc, whereas most of the men during the civil war wore beards. 6,ooo years later. In other words, there isn't too much new under under the sun. Things have a way of coming around again. I ( personally ) believe that players have been modifying MOST instruments over the years.
>
> In the case of harmonicas, these were called 'stage tunings'. Tunings to facilitate a certain function that couldn't otherwise be gotten. At least at THAT time period. Levy wasn't around yet, lolol. The great Don Les used to call these trick tunings. A term I consider less genteel. lolol. What developed was that instead of (for example) using both a D crossed and an A straight to play Londonderry Aire (Oh Danny Boy), I was able to do the tune on only one harp. This is why I said that I am lazier than ...fill in a name... is lazy. Ha ha.
>
> smo-joe
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Music Cal wrote:
>
>> Smo-joe
>>
>> Thank you. That is an excellent point you made about group 1a and the
>> under-counting of alt tuning market by using sale figures alone.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On May 15, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Music Cal wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steve Baker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "This would appear to refute claims that the introduction of new tuning
>>>> systems will increase the appeal of the harmonica (whether diatonic or
>>>> chromatic) and boost sales. Unfortunately the evidence all points the
>>> other
>>>> way. "
>>>>
>>>> I disagree with the claim you made. Consider these two customer groups:
>>>>
>>>> (1) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. Out of
>>> frustration
>>>> with the pitch layout they lose the desire to play the instrument. No
>>>> future sales follow.
>>> I would like to add group (1)a. To wit: Those that purchase or borrow a
>>> standard tuned harp. And out of, and I hesitate to call it frustration, but
>>> more likely annoyance
>>> with the pitch layout, they change something so that they don't loose the
>>> desire to play the instrument. And yes, although future sales follow, they
>>> do NOT register as
>>> sales of anything other than standard tunings.
>>>> (2) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. They accept the
>>>> pitch layout and continue to play the instrument. Future sales follow.
>>>>
>>>> The majority of those who would consider playing an alternate tuning
>>> would
>>>> be players who have already invested time and money in the playing of the
>>>> harp.
>>> This makes the most sense.
>>>
>>>> That is, they will belong to group (2). It would be a hard sell to
>>>> get a big fraction of group (2) to switch to an alternate tuning.
>>> This is logical.
>>>
>>>> Hence the
>>>> 2% market number that you gave (I am assuming these are Seydel's numbers
>>>> since Hohner and Suzuki do not offer alt tunings).
>>>>
>>>> So how does a manufacturer appeal to those in group (1)?
>>> Offer alternate tunings. (Such as done with 'so called' country tuning).
>>> Surharges commensurate with difficulty. Like, for country...no charge.
>>> Configurator tunings...noticable.
>>> AND I believe that Seydel, because they have come out from behind the
>>> 'curtain' only relatively recently, have, out of necessity, to (as Avis
>>> says), try harder.
>>>
>>> smo-joe
>>>
>>>> This is not an
>>>> easy question. Entrenchment of defacto standards have in the past been
>>>> considerable hurdles to change. But like Brendan I think that a number of
>>>> factors will change this inertia. I think the manufacturer that figures
>>>> this out will reap significant rewards. In the meantime the manufacturers
>>>> might benefit by offering (at extra cost as does Seydel) all of their
>>> harps
>>>> in alt tunings so that we can through experimentation play a significant
>>>> role in helping manufacturers figure this out while enabling us to take
>>> the
>>>> art in new directions.
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 20:05:17 -0400
> From: Warren Bee <wbhar...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] "harp-l lurkers"
> To: "fssharp ." <fss...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: harp-l <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAFewmxzoHOyc9v9WyXxwKASE...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Fred! how are you?. I miss seeing you these last few years at the
> convention . Indeed you are an encourager here on line and in person! I
> remember a number of times that we were both in a small hallway group of
> "greenish" players and it morphed into a low-key and social lesson along
> with the jamming. I think we helped bridge the gap between "lost in space"
> and " 45 minute powerlifting seminars" many times. We helped make folks
> smile and relax and just play! .By the way you are a great player Fred,
> leave my tone alone!
>
> wb
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:44 PM, <fss...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> WB: “I also encourage the silent ones to speak out on occasion. No
>> question is too silly. No opinion (harmonica related) invalid.â€
>>
>> I found Warren’s post very compelling. Harmonica content – still working
>> to get Warren’s tone.
>> Fred S
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 21:43:43 -0400
> From: "Hal Iwan" <hal...@comcast.net>
> Subject: [Harp-L] Info for "original" song for festival
> To: <har...@harp-l.com>
> Message-ID: <008201cf70a8$4563f8b0$d02bea10$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello all
>
>
>
> I wrote a 4 verses to a groove that has blues harmonica in
> it. The original song that used this groove had 5 verses.
>
>
>
> A festival is requiring an original(sound file) be submitted with other
> pics, bios, average draw at gigs etc.
>
> I guess my basic question is what is needed to safely lay claim to an
> original song. For some time I have been
>
> under the opinion that grooves are safe or people cannot claim royalties for
> lets say a given melody or groove. Example: Big Boss Man groove or Mojo
> Workin' groove. These grooves now have different lyrics put to them. I have
> a completely different title to my lyrics.
>
> What is the wording requirement or where might one go to get a definitive
> answer. Time is drawing close for the entry deadline.
>
>
>
> I hope I said it in a way that will generate a solid response. Thanx for any
> light that comes this way.
>
>
>
> Hal
>
>
>
>
>
> End of Harp-L Digest, Vol 129, Issue 23
> ***************************************
in some tangible form of expression (e.g. write it out in notation or
record it), under U.S. law, you automatically own a copyright in a
"musical work". It is desirable to register it with the U.S. Copyright
Office, but not necessary in order to own the copyright. It's desirable
because if someone infringes your work after you register it, you have
the possibility to get some extra possible remedies (an important one
being possible attorneys fees if you win an infringement suit--it can be
expensive to pay one without that). I'm not sure what it is you're
trying to protect, but note that a "style" or "groove" or a simple
percussion pattern or general "ideas" and standard musical material
(e.g. a I-IV-V 12-bar blues progression) won't be copyrightable. Your
particular expression of that groove (i.e. your words, melody and other
musical expression) can be. You can get more information and register
your song (and your recording, for that matter) with the U.S. Copyright
Office: www.copyright.gov. There's lots of useful information about
copyright and registration there, as well as the possibility of doing an
online registration.
I hope this helps, but it does not constitute legal advice. If it did,
you'd have to get a bill!
Best,
Jay
Jay Dougherty
Professor of Law
Director, Entertainment/Media Law Institute & Concentration Program
Loyola Law School | Los Angeles
919 Albany St.
L.A., CA 90015
Ph: 213-736-1461
http://www.lls.edu/aboutus/facultyadministration/faculty/facultylistc-d/doughertyfjay/
On 5/15/2014 6:01 PM, harp-l-...@harp-l.org wrote:
> Send Harp-L mailing list submissions to
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: History of harp tuning - A "minor" correction (Robert Coble)
> 2. Re: History of harp tuning - A "minor" correction (Music Cal)
> 3. Re: History of harp tuning (Richard Hunter)
> 4. Re: History of harp tuning (Joseph Leone)
> 5. Harp-l search question (Buck Worley)
> 6. Re: History of harp tuning (Music Cal)
> 7. Re: chris reynolds' acrylic combs for chromatics (Joseph Leone)
> 8. Re: History of harp tuning (Joseph Leone)
> 9. Re: "harp-l lurkers" (Warren Bee)
> 10. Info for "original" song for festival (Hal Iwan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 17:11:43 -0400
> From: Robert Coble <robert...@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning - A "minor" correction
> To: Harp-L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU176-W51F64465D...@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> >From Steve Baker:
>
> "*Lee has told me that all of them together make up less than 2% of his turnover.*"
>
> The "Lee" in that post would be Lee Oskar, the principal in the Lee Oskar Harmonica Co.,
> which actually sells Japanese-made Tombo brand harmonicas, relabeled for the USA market.
>
> Steve gave no numbers for Hohner, even though he is directly associated with Hohner.
>
> I hazard an educated guess that Hohner's numbers for altered tunings overall would be
> a smaller percentage of total sales than Lee Oskar. Why? Because there are only a couple
> of possibilities across the entire Hohner line for altered tunings.
>
> If you want to figure out what a large multinational corporation will do, follow the money.
>
> Back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
> Crazy Bob
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 14:31:24 -0700
> From: Music Cal <macaro...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning - A "minor" correction
> To: harp-L list <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAOn7XaODoOQvchVRUQSY3X6m...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Right, Robert. I should have said that my assumption is that the 2% number
> was a Lee Oskar number rather than a Seydel number.
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Robert Coble <robert...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> >From Steve Baker:
>>
>> "*Lee has told me that all of them together make up less than 2% of his
>> turnover.*"
>>
>> The "Lee" in that post would be Lee Oskar, the principal in the Lee Oskar
>> Harmonica Co.,
>> which actually sells Japanese-made Tombo brand harmonicas, relabeled for
>> the USA market.
>>
>> Steve gave no numbers for Hohner, even though he is directly associated
>> with Hohner.
>>
>> I hazard an educated guess that Hohner's numbers for altered tunings
>> overall would be
>> a smaller percentage of total sales than Lee Oskar. Why? Because there are
>> only a couple
>> of possibilities across the entire Hohner line for altered tunings.
>>
>> If you want to figure out what a large multinational corporation will do,
>> follow the money.
>>
>> Back to your regularly scheduled discussion...
>> Crazy Bob
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:04:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
> From: Richard Hunter <turtl...@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning
> To: har...@harp-l.org
> Message-ID:
> <33128431.140019508...@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> <Steve Baker wrote:
> <
> <"This would appear to refute claims that the introduction of new tuning
> <systems will increase the appeal of the harmonica (whether diatonic or
> <chromatic) and boost sales. Unfortunately the evidence all points the other
> <way. "
> <
> <I disagree with the claim you made. Consider these two customer groups:
> <etc...
>
> I have championed alternate tunings, beginning with the country tuning, since the publication of my book "Jazz Harp" in 1980 (which Steve Baker credited on this list as inspiring him to take up the country tuning, which he now uses by his own estimate on about 1/3 of his pieces--thanks Steve!). My two solo (as in unaccompanied) harmonica CDs, released in 1995 and 1998 respectively, both featured alternate tunings extensively. I'm certainly not the only player who's made extensive use of alternate tunings; as PT Gazell remarked to me when I asked him what instruments he and Brendan Power used on their duet CD, "who knows what Brendan was playing." (Indeed. Whatever Brendan is playing at any given point in time, you can bet that it's substantially different from what the rest of us are using, not to mention anything we've ever seen.)
>
> In other words, plenty of prominent players have made extensive use of alternate tunings, live and on record, but as per Steve's comments, only a small fraction of all harmonica sales represent these tunings. I've given up trying to figure out why so few players reach for this low-hanging fruit, but there it is.
>
> Past is not necessarily future, but I tend to agree with Steve that introducing new tuning systems, some of them radically different from traditional Richter systems, will not change the picture much, perhaps unless (or until) some dazzling player comes along who captures the imagination of millions with, say, a Powerbender in her hands. Until then, I think it's asking a lot of manufacturers to tool up and turn out millions of instruments that are very likely to sit on shelves worldwide forever.
>
> If you disagree, then do the only thing that will get those manufacturers to move: go out there and buy alternate tuned harmonicas, and encourage your friends to do the same.
>
> In the meantime, I'm just grateful that I can still get my hands on these instruments in a reasonable amount of time and at a reasonable cost, if not instantly and for free at every store in my neighborhood.
>
> Regards, Richard Hunter
>
>
>
>
>
> author, "Jazz Harp" (Oak Publications, NYC)
> Latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
> Vids at http://www.youtube.com/user/lightninrick
> Twitter: lightninrick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:09:48 -0400
> From: Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning
> To: Music Cal <macaro...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Harp L Harp L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <66208AF4-84B9-4597...@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Music Cal wrote:
>
>> Steve Baker wrote:
>>
>> "This would appear to refute claims that the introduction of new tuning
>> systems will increase the appeal of the harmonica (whether diatonic or
>> chromatic) and boost sales. Unfortunately the evidence all points the other
>> way. "
>>
>> I disagree with the claim you made. Consider these two customer groups:
>>
>> (1) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. Out of frustration
>> with the pitch layout they lose the desire to play the instrument. No
>> future sales follow.
> I would like to add group (1)a. To wit: Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. And out of, and I hesitate to call it frustration, but more likely annoyance
> with the pitch layout, they change something so that they don't loose the desire to play the instrument. And yes, although future sales follow, they do NOT register as
> sales of anything other than standard tunings.
>> (2) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. They accept the
>> pitch layout and continue to play the instrument. Future sales follow.
>>
>> The majority of those who would consider playing an alternate tuning would
>> be players who have already invested time and money in the playing of the
>> harp.
> This makes the most sense.
>
>> That is, they will belong to group (2). It would be a hard sell to
>> get a big fraction of group (2) to switch to an alternate tuning.
> This is logical.
>
>> Hence the
>> 2% market number that you gave (I am assuming these are Seydel's numbers
>> since Hohner and Suzuki do not offer alt tunings).
>>
>> So how does a manufacturer appeal to those in group (1)?
> Offer alternate tunings. (Such as done with 'so called' country tuning). Surharges commensurate with difficulty. Like, for country...no charge. Configurator tunings...noticable.
> AND I believe that Seydel, because they have come out from behind the 'curtain' only relatively recently, have, out of necessity, to (as Avis says), try harder.
>
> smo-joe
>
>> This is not an
>> easy question. Entrenchment of defacto standards have in the past been
>> considerable hurdles to change. But like Brendan I think that a number of
>> factors will change this inertia. I think the manufacturer that figures
>> this out will reap significant rewards. In the meantime the manufacturers
>> might benefit by offering (at extra cost as does Seydel) all of their harps
>> in alt tunings so that we can through experimentation play a significant
>> role in helping manufacturers figure this out while enabling us to take the
>> art in new directions.
>>
>> Daniel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 18:27:12 -0500
> From: Buck Worley <boog...@msn.com>
> Subject: [Harp-L] Harp-l search question
> To: "har...@harp-l.org" <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <SNT147-W1620C710F...@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am trying to use the harp-l archives for posts on 7 limit JI . Not getting any results. I know this subject has been discussed recently. Can someone give me a path or tips on what URL or anything that will help me. Thanks, Buck
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 16:28:48 -0700
> From: Music Cal <macaro...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning
> To: Harp L Harp L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAOn7XaMiLc9tGQrpRXof4SJqNibtPPQ_JeC=7PhVdCv...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Smo-joe
>
> Thank you. That is an excellent point you made about group 1a and the
> under-counting of alt tuning market by using sale figures alone.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On May 15, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Music Cal wrote:
>>
>>> Steve Baker wrote:
>>>
>>> "This would appear to refute claims that the introduction of new tuning
>>> systems will increase the appeal of the harmonica (whether diatonic or
>>> chromatic) and boost sales. Unfortunately the evidence all points the
>> other
>>> way. "
>>>
>>> I disagree with the claim you made. Consider these two customer groups:
>>>
>>> (1) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. Out of
>> frustration
>>> with the pitch layout they lose the desire to play the instrument. No
>>> future sales follow.
>> I would like to add group (1)a. To wit: Those that purchase or borrow a
>> standard tuned harp. And out of, and I hesitate to call it frustration, but
>> more likely annoyance
>> with the pitch layout, they change something so that they don't loose the
>> desire to play the instrument. And yes, although future sales follow, they
>> do NOT register as
>> sales of anything other than standard tunings.
>>> (2) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. They accept the
>>> pitch layout and continue to play the instrument. Future sales follow.
>>>
>>> The majority of those who would consider playing an alternate tuning
>> would
>>> be players who have already invested time and money in the playing of the
>>> harp.
>> This makes the most sense.
>>
>>> That is, they will belong to group (2). It would be a hard sell to
>>> get a big fraction of group (2) to switch to an alternate tuning.
>> This is logical.
>>
>>> Hence the
>>> 2% market number that you gave (I am assuming these are Seydel's numbers
>>> since Hohner and Suzuki do not offer alt tunings).
>>>
>>> So how does a manufacturer appeal to those in group (1)?
>> Offer alternate tunings. (Such as done with 'so called' country tuning).
>> Surharges commensurate with difficulty. Like, for country...no charge.
>> Configurator tunings...noticable.
>> AND I believe that Seydel, because they have come out from behind the
>> 'curtain' only relatively recently, have, out of necessity, to (as Avis
>> says), try harder.
>>
>> smo-joe
>>
>>> This is not an
>>> easy question. Entrenchment of defacto standards have in the past been
>>> considerable hurdles to change. But like Brendan I think that a number of
>>> factors will change this inertia. I think the manufacturer that figures
>>> this out will reap significant rewards. In the meantime the manufacturers
>>> might benefit by offering (at extra cost as does Seydel) all of their
>> harps
>>> in alt tunings so that we can through experimentation play a significant
>>> role in helping manufacturers figure this out while enabling us to take
>> the
>>> art in new directions.
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:30:35 -0400
> From: Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] chris reynolds' acrylic combs for chromatics
> To: Harp L Harp L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <AFB188AA-4ECD-477A...@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>> There's a lot to be said for acrylic combs.
> I have sitting here in front of me a very old Hohner 270 in the key of F. The comb is walnut and the plates are on with wood screws. Not bolted all the way through plate to plate. Each side has it's own set of screws. About 1/2 inch (12.7m) from the spring end is a ragged crack. Obviously a flaw in the grain of the wood. A half inch farther from the right end is a clean crack (a seam between 2 pieces).
>
> The chromo needed a new spring. I happen to use #2 safety pins. Because they are chromed and not thin cadmium plated. When I took the cover plates and mouth piece assemblies off to get at the spring retaining pin. The entire end of the comb crumbled in my hand. I was able to change the spring, and holding the entire right end of the assembly together with what seemed like THREE hands, I was able to get it all back together..and straight..and operating well.
>
> It's only a matter of time before the whole thing goes south. An acrylic comb will (generally) cure all of this. Better than that crumbly old pink plastic that Hohner used to use on their 280s.
>
> smo-joe
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 19:49:06 -0400
> From: Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] History of harp tuning
> To: Music Cal <macaro...@gmail.com>
> Cc: Harp L Harp L <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID: <836E0B9F-CA01-40EB...@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Dan
> The reason why I brought it up was not to be a wise guy. I have been using what some might call an altered tuning since the fall of 1959. So, that's almost 55 years.
> Here's the deal. What happened is that I started on chromatic first. That was spring of 56. So I was already used to having all the notes..so to speak. When I came home from Paris, my old friends back here in the U.S. wanted me to join their doo-wop group. I was to be baritone/bass voice. And at times toss in some trumpet and harmonica.
>
> I was mildly annoyed that no matter what I did, there was a note I couldn't get. It seemed that when I played a tune in one key, and we got to the bridge, I needed the 5th note draw to be a sharp. Seemed to be like that on almost everything I played. And didn't matter the key, as the 5th or 7th or whatever it was...wasn't there. I proceeded to retune ONE reed. The 5 draw. So that would make the harp altered..no?
>
> In didn't do this to all my diatonics. Just a couple. Eventually I tried other things. Raising the 9 draw. Placing a wind saver on the 5 draw. Placing wind savers all over the place. Eventually I settled on only ONE wind saver. Having a bunch of them wasn't necessary for the stuff I was doing. Now the reason why I don't believe I was doing anything new is because the Egyptians were already shaving in 4241 bc, whereas most of the men during the civil war wore beards. 6,ooo years later. In other words, there isn't too much new under under the sun. Things have a way of coming around again. I ( personally ) believe that players have been modifying MOST instruments over the years.
>
> In the case of harmonicas, these were called 'stage tunings'. Tunings to facilitate a certain function that couldn't otherwise be gotten. At least at THAT time period. Levy wasn't around yet, lolol. The great Don Les used to call these trick tunings. A term I consider less genteel. lolol. What developed was that instead of (for example) using both a D crossed and an A straight to play Londonderry Aire (Oh Danny Boy), I was able to do the tune on only one harp. This is why I said that I am lazier than ...fill in a name... is lazy. Ha ha.
>
> smo-joe
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 7:28 PM, Music Cal wrote:
>
>> Smo-joe
>>
>> Thank you. That is an excellent point you made about group 1a and the
>> under-counting of alt tuning market by using sale figures alone.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Joseph Leone <3n...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On May 15, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Music Cal wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steve Baker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "This would appear to refute claims that the introduction of new tuning
>>>> systems will increase the appeal of the harmonica (whether diatonic or
>>>> chromatic) and boost sales. Unfortunately the evidence all points the
>>> other
>>>> way. "
>>>>
>>>> I disagree with the claim you made. Consider these two customer groups:
>>>>
>>>> (1) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. Out of
>>> frustration
>>>> with the pitch layout they lose the desire to play the instrument. No
>>>> future sales follow.
>>> I would like to add group (1)a. To wit: Those that purchase or borrow a
>>> standard tuned harp. And out of, and I hesitate to call it frustration, but
>>> more likely annoyance
>>> with the pitch layout, they change something so that they don't loose the
>>> desire to play the instrument. And yes, although future sales follow, they
>>> do NOT register as
>>> sales of anything other than standard tunings.
>>>> (2) Those that purchase or borrow a standard tuned harp. They accept the
>>>> pitch layout and continue to play the instrument. Future sales follow.
>>>>
>>>> The majority of those who would consider playing an alternate tuning
>>> would
>>>> be players who have already invested time and money in the playing of the
>>>> harp.
>>> This makes the most sense.
>>>
>>>> That is, they will belong to group (2). It would be a hard sell to
>>>> get a big fraction of group (2) to switch to an alternate tuning.
>>> This is logical.
>>>
>>>> Hence the
>>>> 2% market number that you gave (I am assuming these are Seydel's numbers
>>>> since Hohner and Suzuki do not offer alt tunings).
>>>>
>>>> So how does a manufacturer appeal to those in group (1)?
>>> Offer alternate tunings. (Such as done with 'so called' country tuning).
>>> Surharges commensurate with difficulty. Like, for country...no charge.
>>> Configurator tunings...noticable.
>>> AND I believe that Seydel, because they have come out from behind the
>>> 'curtain' only relatively recently, have, out of necessity, to (as Avis
>>> says), try harder.
>>>
>>> smo-joe
>>>
>>>> This is not an
>>>> easy question. Entrenchment of defacto standards have in the past been
>>>> considerable hurdles to change. But like Brendan I think that a number of
>>>> factors will change this inertia. I think the manufacturer that figures
>>>> this out will reap significant rewards. In the meantime the manufacturers
>>>> might benefit by offering (at extra cost as does Seydel) all of their
>>> harps
>>>> in alt tunings so that we can through experimentation play a significant
>>>> role in helping manufacturers figure this out while enabling us to take
>>> the
>>>> art in new directions.
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 20:05:17 -0400
> From: Warren Bee <wbhar...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] "harp-l lurkers"
> To: "fssharp ." <fss...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: harp-l <har...@harp-l.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAFewmxzoHOyc9v9WyXxwKASE...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Fred! how are you?. I miss seeing you these last few years at the
> convention . Indeed you are an encourager here on line and in person! I
> remember a number of times that we were both in a small hallway group of
> "greenish" players and it morphed into a low-key and social lesson along
> with the jamming. I think we helped bridge the gap between "lost in space"
> and " 45 minute powerlifting seminars" many times. We helped make folks
> smile and relax and just play! .By the way you are a great player Fred,
> leave my tone alone!
>
> wb
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:44 PM, <fss...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> WB: “I also encourage the silent ones to speak out on occasion. No
>> question is too silly. No opinion (harmonica related) invalid.â€
>>
>> I found Warren’s post very compelling. Harmonica content – still working
>> to get Warren’s tone.
>> Fred S
>>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 21:43:43 -0400
> From: "Hal Iwan" <hal...@comcast.net>
> Subject: [Harp-L] Info for "original" song for festival
> To: <har...@harp-l.com>
> Message-ID: <008201cf70a8$4563f8b0$d02bea10$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello all
>
>
>
> I wrote a 4 verses to a groove that has blues harmonica in
> it. The original song that used this groove had 5 verses.
>
>
>
> A festival is requiring an original(sound file) be submitted with other
> pics, bios, average draw at gigs etc.
>
> I guess my basic question is what is needed to safely lay claim to an
> original song. For some time I have been
>
> under the opinion that grooves are safe or people cannot claim royalties for
> lets say a given melody or groove. Example: Big Boss Man groove or Mojo
> Workin' groove. These grooves now have different lyrics put to them. I have
> a completely different title to my lyrics.
>
> What is the wording requirement or where might one go to get a definitive
> answer. Time is drawing close for the entry deadline.
>
>
>
> I hope I said it in a way that will generate a solid response. Thanx for any
> light that comes this way.
>
>
>
> Hal
>
>
>
>
>
> End of Harp-L Digest, Vol 129, Issue 23
> ***************************************
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