[Harp-L] Some observations on 12th position on the diatonic
Jim Rumbaugh
Some observations on 12th position on the diatonic
If you have not tried 12th position, here's the sales pitch of why and where. Keep in mind, all my opinions are based on a "lazy man's approach" to 12th position
1) It's good for playing the major pentatonic scale.
2) I use it as an octave scale, starting on 5 draw, with a half octave below (down to 4 blow) and a half octave above (up to 10 blow). You can play all these notes with no bending
3) The root note is a draw note that allows you to be expressive. Compare that to 1st position, where the root note is a blow note.
4) If you play the major pentatonic in 2nd position, your first note after that expressive 2 hole draw is a 3 draw bent a full step. If you don't want to bend in 2nd position, you gotta start on 6 blow, but then you've lost you're expressive root note.
5) When you play the major pentatonic in 1st position, the fifth scale tone below 4 blow is that same pesky 3 draw bent a full step.
6) So from #3, #4 and #5, we can say, 12th is the position where you can be expressive on the root, play below the root, and above the octave with no bents notes
7) On tunes that modulate to the relative minor, like Georgia On My Mind, you're set and ready to play in 3rd position.
That's it. There are some places, where 12th has an advantage over 1st, and 2nd when playing the major pentatonic scale. I still play most of my major pentatonic scales in 2nd position, but I'm enjoying using 12th more and more.
Steve Shaw
A couple of pentatonic tunes that work in 12th, no bends, are Auld Lang Syne (come on, chaps, it's Burns Night on Wednesday!!) and Dirty Old Town. They're both really good tunes for budding tune-players to use to get out of first position. You can play both these melodies, no bends, in first, second and twelfth. They make a great exercise for diatonic players to extend their skills in playing in different positions on the same harp. When I'm bored I can spend a happy quarter of an hour just playing the two tunes in all three positions on a D harp...or any harp really... I suppose I should add the health warning that my harps are Paddy Richter tuned.
Steve
Richard Hunter
Thanks, Richard Hunter
author, "Jazz Harp"
latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
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Mojo Red
Thanks offering for your perspective on the advantages of using 12th position. I'm using it more and more these days.
I'd like to add a few more observations:
1) 12th is great for tunes that are based in the I VI II V chord structure.
2) You mentioned that 12th is useful in tunes that modulate to the relative minor. Well the reverse is also true. Tunes that start in a minor and move to the relative major (if there is such a thing). Hesitation Blues is a good example. I'll start the tune in 3rd position and move to 12th.
3) If you are comfortable using bent notes as notes (rather than slurs), the first octave is also great in 12th, despite the fact that the tonic is a bent tone (2 draw, whole step bend). You can make that tonic very expressive indeed.
4) 12th is ideal for tin-pan alley type tunes such as "Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out." You can cleanly play the ~melody~ instead of just throwing licks over it, but you can also throw licks over it.
3) Blues that have a strong major feel work great in 12th... such as Cakewalk Into Town.
4) 12th is a great alternative to playing in 1st because you have 2 adjacent octaves that flow together nicely, whereas in 1st position the middle octave can be awkward for bluesy tunes (most guys jump from the 3rd octave down to the 1st octave and ignore the middle).
5) Despite the fact that the tonic in the 2nd octave (5 draw) is not a super expressive note, you can deliciously play around the tonic to get that expressiveness and use the tonic more as a passing tone. Who says you have to start your solo on the tonic?
6) The downside to 12th is that if you are not comfortable with hitting a bent note as a single notes (rather than a slur), then the first octave can be very challenging.
I encourage anyone who wants to open up their playing to explore 12th position. You'll be surprised how nicely things lay out there.
Harpin' in Colorado,
--Ken M.
________________________________
From: Jim Rumbaugh <jrum...@live.marshall.edu>
To: har...@harp-l.org
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 5:56 PM
Subject: [Harp-L] Some observations on 12th position on the diatonic
Larry Sandy
Awaiting answers from more experienced harmonicasts,
Lockjaw Larry
________________________________
From: Richard Hunter <turtl...@earthlink.net>
To: har...@harp-l.org
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 9:31 AM
Subject: [Harp-L] Re:Some observations on 12th position on the diatonic
Ben Bouman
ask yourself.. which harp would you use in 2nd position/song in C.... = F harp.
Think opposite: song in F = C harp 12 th position.
Or:
look one position counter clockwise in the circle of fifth. Start with the key of the harp...look one back , that's the key in which you play in 12 th position.
complicated... i don't think so ( ??) :-))
Ben Bouman
www.customharmonicashop.nl
www.harmonicainstituut.nl
www.marble-amps.com
Mike Rogers
the circle to completion.
Richard Hunter
Sridhar Rajagopalan
harp highlighting the notes and corresponding holes for the various
positions and scales. On looking up the 12th position on a C harp it came
up with F minor as the scale. Hope that's the answer.
Regards
Sridhar
On Monday, January 23, 2012, Richard Hunter <turtl...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Steve Shaw
> Hi! I use a small iPhone app BHarmonica that provides me schematics of the
> harp highlighting the notes and corresponding holes for the various
> positions and scales. On looking up the 12th position on a C harp it came
> up with F minor as the scale. Hope that's the answer.
> Regards
> Sridhar
F major by my reckoning, not minor.
Mike Rogers
Jim Rumbaugh
===========================================================
some people call 12th "1st flat" , cause it represents the key with 1 flat, a.k.a. the key of F
==========================================================
I'll re-share a comment I made long ago. I personally have named 12th "reverse cross" because it's just the opposite of cross harp. In cross, you grab that C harp to play the key of G, but in 12th, you grab that G harp to play the key of C.
do or use whatever works for you :)
Jim Rumbaugh
James Conway
I believe both F Major and F minor played on a C harp are considered 12th position, also known as 1st flat.
cheers,
Jim Conway
harp...@hotmail.com
www.jamesconway.net
Arthur Jennings
key, on a C harp. However, if the question is "what scale do I get when I
play all the notes from draw five to draw eight without bends overblows or
overdraws," the answer is F Lydian. F Lydian is like F major except it has
an augmented fourth.
--
Arthur Jennings
http://www.timeistight.com
Tom Albanese
recorded this with the Willie Hayes Band last summer. The tune is Clean Up
Woman with Vivian Vance Kelly on vocals.
http://alonetone.com/ibblue2/tracks/clean-up-woman
tom albanese
Rob Paparozzi
Wow, very impressive and an excellent groove and style to use this position
on...Bravo and tasty work!
Ofcourse for the jazz player it opens up many possibilities on tunes like:,
"There Will Never Be Another You" and "Sweet Georgia Brown" to name a few
but you've used it here in a Soul context which works so well. I also think
it's an amazing Blues position.
I like to think of 12th as a "close cousin" to 3rd position (Dm on a C harp)
as it's the relative minor to the key of F.
The example I show my students is the excellent Howard Levy solo on the film
song "Bluestown" which Howard plays in 12th
(C on a G harp)
12th Position is an excellent way to strengthen your holes 2 & 3 draw bends
as they will be used alot in this position for sure!
I posted it on youtube so my students could hear it as it's only on a
soundtrack CD and hard to find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3Wbx5adQwo
Dig his opening 4 bars as he starts on hole 9 draw (C note) and ends up on a
2 draw bent to C which is the tonic note.
His placement is brilliant, but it shows what can be done in a blues vein
over these funky changes.
Here's a little map of the first four bars, observe how he starts on the
high C and weaves his way down to the last C...(and this is only the intro
!,-) anyway, thanx for posting your tune Tom you sound great!)
d=draw
b=blow
bb=blowbend ( he works this into a triplet figure on hole 8 blow)
ob=ob
'=1st bend
''=2nd bend
'''=3rd bend
Here is a crude mapping of the First four bars of Howard Levy's solo on
"Bluestown"
9d 8bb~ 7 6ob 6d~ 5d 4d 5d 4d 5d 6d~
4d 3d''' 3b 2d'' 2d (or 3b) 1d 2d'' 2d
3d'''------3d' 2d''---------
Now keep in mind this tune is NOT a standard blues but what I'd call
"Gospel-Funk Blues Changes"
these are your chords of the first first bars:
/ C Dm D#dim / F7 / C D7/ F,C-----/
for anyone wanting MORE Howard, sign up for his excellent lessons at:
http://www.howardlevyharmonicaschool.com/
enjoy,
Rob Paparozzi
Paul Messinger
Me Home' from 'Outside in the Redwoods' . the LIVE CD Howard recorded with
Kenny Loggins . a breathtaking solo . pretty much 'my' primer on 12th
position .
Paul Messinger/Chapel Hill NC
Peter Madcat Ruth
Madcat - Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1UyPh3Z3LI
The song is in the key of G. I played it on a D harp (12th position).
Peter Madcat Ruth
Musician - Grammy Award Winner
mad...@madcatmusic.net
www.madcatmusic.net
www.youtube.com/user/petermadcatruth
tacop...@comcast.net
expressive on that song in cross harp. It lays out perfect in G on a C
harmonica. Why did you choose 12th position?
I believe that many years ago I wrote on harp-l, to your chagrin, that
some of the best harmonica playing I've ever heard was Mad Cat with
"Sky King" and "Brubeck and Sons." Studying those records along with
Norton Buffalo's first two LP's helped me fluidly scale the harmonica
from holes one through ten. I may not have groked that without the
help of those LP's. As most of you know the harmonica changes between
holes 6 & 7 and it becomes a different instrument on the high end.
Madcat and Norton illuminated me on that.
In 1976 I saw an awesome San Diego PBS show of Brubeck & Sons with
Madcat, and when Dave introduced the band he said, "they're jazz
musicians trying to make a living playing funk rock 'n' roll in a band
called Sky King." Correct me if I'm wrong Madcat, it's been awhile.
The next day I went to Tower Records and they had one copy of Sky King
in the back room and I bought it. Only copy I've ever seen. It's one
of the best records and some of the best harmonica I've ever heard.
Once, in 1975 when I was rookie harmonica player, a guy came down the
Mission Beach boardwalk in San Diego, heard me attempt to play and
asked to play my harmonica. He then proceeded to riff from hole one
through ten over a 12-bar groove. To this day, I still believe it was
Madcat though I have no proof.
I still believe that Little Walter was the best ever and wrote the
book like Hendrix did on guitar but Madcat and Norton amongst others
helped pave the way.
TP
gnarl...@gmail.com
Gary
Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�
-----Original Message-----
From: tacop...@comcast.net
Sender: harp-l-...@harp-l.org
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:34:28
To: Peter Madcat Ruth<mad...@madcatmusic.net>
Cc: <har...@harp-l.org>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Some observations on 12th position on the diatonic
tacop...@comcast.net
same community college in San Diego and the details can be found in
Harp-l archives.
TP
On Jan 31, 2012, at 9:57 PM, gnarl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Probably Harmonica John Frazer.
> Gary
> Sent on the Sprint� Now Network from my BlackBerry�