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bluesmandan

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Aug 23, 2012, 10:28:22 AM8/23/12
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Type Harp-L in the Facebook search line. Request to join. Easy.

El Rey de los Super Mochomos

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Aug 23, 2012, 8:53:50 PM8/23/12
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I'm sure not finding it and I don't see any reference to it on your personal FB page.  Chris Pierce the original listowner of harp-l 19 plus years ago recently tried a FB presence for harp-l.  Nobody joined and now it's gone.  If you search harmonica under the groups category the largest group I could find was harmonica jam and it only has 1200 members.  If you close the group it's antithetical to how harp-l has been run historically anyhow.  Yes it might be simple to just start a harp-l FB group but the only thing harp-l about it would be the name and only if you don't cap the l and the h.  Oddly I'd like to get back to the core discussion here.  I'm looking for a spare moment to get back with some thought s and answers.  No Bill they won't be entirely nuts and bolts but I'll try to leans towrds the pragmatic i.e. what's the solution.  Part of that has to be however what the solution isn't.  More on that asap.  p.s  want to talk about an interface that sucks on a smart phone, FB is it until iOS6 releases this fall.  

bluesmandan

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Aug 24, 2012, 8:14:18 AM8/24/12
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I'm not sure why you can't find it. Capital H. Capital L. Harp-L. Should pop up as a closed group and be the first listing shown.

If the same group of people join the group, it will be the same group, carrying on the same discussion about harmonica. I don't get the "we don't want a forum" argument. For me, Harp-L functions just like any other forum I'm on except it doesn't have a dedicated webpage to check updates. A bunch of people converse about a topic. You read. Every once in a while ask a question or contribute if you have something hopefully useful (or humorous) to add.

first last

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Aug 24, 2012, 8:54:24 AM8/24/12
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I can't find it because FB's search sucks. If you want people to get
to it reliably you'll need to post a direct url.
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Seth Galitzer

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Aug 24, 2012, 10:31:03 AM8/24/12
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Doesn't come up in my search either. I think they do some fuzzy
searching based on your own FB history. FWIW, I'm not a big FB (or
really any other so-called social networking) fan and would much rather
keep a mailing list.

Seems like what we need here is somebody willing to take the time and
effort to heavily moderate the list, nothing more. Other management
issues, like subbing/unsubbing people who can't do it themselves,
pruning spam, etc, are pretty trivial. I don't see any point in
changing technology. If the current moderator has been paying for
hosting out of their own pocket, then I suspect we'll need an angel
investor to take that over, too.

This is probably a silly question, but could we get SPAH to pay the
$10/mo for this? Basically just write a check to whoever volunteers to
be in the barrel, let them take care of the details. If not, throw it
back to the list, start up a fund drive.

I did this with another similar (in character) list many years back. It
worked out rather nicely. We incorporated so there was a way to handle
the money, and got people to buy "shares" to kickstart it. Since then,
it continues entirely on donations via PayPal. I'm technically still a
shareholder, but haven't been involved in a very long time, but that
list is still going strong. Harp-L might not need to go as far as
incorporating, but it keeps the taxman happy.

I'm just saying I think there are options to pursue here and no need to
think the sky is falling, or the curtain, or black night, or whatever
your personal favorite metaphor is.

Seth
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Seth Galitzer
The beatings will continue until morale has improved.

first last

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Aug 24, 2012, 10:53:38 AM8/24/12
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To reiterate, I am working on the funding issue. It's more than $10 a
month. Just hang tight for a moment. I think the money part can be
dealt with. I appreciate that people are coming up with 11th hour
solutions and perhaps the time will come when that's the mode we're
operating in but we aren't there yet and my hope is that's not where
we're headed. My goal is for the 2300 plus users of harp-l to never
notice that there has been a change. That's where I'd like to leave
it, seamless.

I'm kinda sorta pretty busy on other fronts at the moment. I'm hoping
to get back to the group with something some details about what I
envision for the future.

John Concilus

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Aug 24, 2012, 11:44:39 AM8/24/12
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Hi,

I think Mailman is the best solution for the specific "problem" this list has. The Harp-L membership is not looking for social networking, nor clamoring for new features. Mailman is a mail list, and compared to Majordomo (ugh) and the other dedicated tools I've used, Mailman rocks and is stable as can be. It's free, Open Source, very stable since the 90s, runs on Linux like a champ, is actively being developed (latest version is June, 2012), plays well with others (like Google and the various MTA tools), and is very well documented.  Those are the very things I look for in a solution when I get paid to choose one for an organization...which is largely what I do for a living.

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/docs.html

http://lists.ucla.edu/docs/mailman-admin/

I'd recommend getting someone to take superadmin role (anonymous or not...I don't see the need for secrecy, but whatever...)  who can understand it's archiving connections, how it is set up and can realistically host it (or manage the VPS it's on through WHM/CPanel interface), and get some other members trained as moderators. There seems to me to be no need to solve problems the list doesn't have, so to speak, by looking at new ways to fix something is not broken. Mailman is a tool. It does one thing - manage mail lists lilke Harp-L - exceedingly well. 

Just my two cents.

Johncn

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first last

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Aug 24, 2012, 6:11:24 PM8/24/12
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harp-l is a Mailman list already. We like Mailman just fine.

John Concilus

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Aug 24, 2012, 6:33:01 PM8/24/12
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Yes, I know you use Mailman...that was my point in the last email.  ;-)

Johncn

bluesmandan

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Aug 25, 2012, 10:55:45 AM8/25/12
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Hopefully there will be no need for it. But here's the direct link:



Seth Galitzer

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Aug 25, 2012, 3:11:49 PM8/25/12
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Closed group, which means joining must be approved by a group owner.
Not terribly useful, IMHO. Though I find Facebook in general not
terribly useful, either.

Seth
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bluesmandan

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Aug 26, 2012, 8:32:47 AM8/26/12
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As I recall, the Harp-L mailing list is a closed group, too. As is this meta-discussion group. I suppose almost all requests to join are approved, but the request still has to be made...

first last

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Aug 26, 2012, 9:33:03 AM8/26/12
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harp-l is not a closed group. Meta is because a google group quickly
gets spammed if it isn't. Only members can post to harp-l but anyone
can join and there is no approval needed to do so. The 2 alternate
harp-l groups are also open. Anyone can join no approval needed.
Those are the google group and the yahoo group. All of the harp-l
groups including meta are readable from the outside meaning being a
member is not required to access the content. You've hit upon why
harp-l is currently a Mailman e-mail list. If you don't allow html
posting or attachments in posts you can just let anyone join because
the risks are so low.
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