Jim Warren Message

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Geo

unread,
Dec 1, 2010, 6:22:49 PM12/1/10
to HarmonyFL
Note: Please don't reply to this message unless you are Jim Warren or
you would like to respond to Jim.

Over the years Jim Warren has been the chief apologist posting on
behalf of Harmony Development Company in this forum. He has repeatedly
attempted to disrupt reasonable dialog here. He has also interfered
with the free flow of information through the use of invective and
personal attacks.

Jim's contributions have generally not been constructive. Neither have
they been conducive to getting meaningful answers to reasonable
questions.

I have repeatedly asked Jim to create his own threads so that other
threads don't get messed on, as has often been the case in the past,
yet he chooses to ignore this reasonable request.

Here are a few examples of Jim's contributions over the years:

http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/28efff953f41f7e9
http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/0c5d89777ed5e67b
http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/0ab81b15afc13f96
http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/6f72f6917a0b780b
http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/8bbfd21028227be1
http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/bca6b5eb5b9a8628

I believe that Jim should be free to speak his mind like anyone else,
but there are limits to this freedom, like yelling "Fire!" in a
crowded theater.

So please feel free to repost your message on this thread Jim.

James Warren

unread,
Dec 2, 2010, 11:02:21 AM12/2/10
to harm...@googlegroups.com
I hope everyone can see what George is all about now.

George yells "the fire station is closing, and There Mold at Harmomny school!"
but responds to my thread stating I shout FIRE!!

What a joke. And to be honest I hope the newbies here at elected level, realise
what a mistake they have made.

This is not the forum our community should be using to discuss issues that
affect the WHOLE community.

Having 6 or 7 people watching or posting is not in the interest of the Harmony
community. It is the interests of one resident (George).
George only wants to post here, as it is the only chance he gets to voice his
unwanted opinions. At real meetings he gets shouted down, becuase he is a
spiteful in his questions, and will not accept the fact when opinion goes
against him. He disrupts mneetings, and offends people , the community and the
developer whith his tirade of useless fact and rumour.

I posted a fair an factual post, and George has to begun his slanderous venemous
posts.

I am glad you did George, now Tom and company can get back to business and
communicating with the community the way he should...

Geo

unread,
Dec 2, 2010, 10:09:01 PM12/2/10
to HarmonyFL
I am all about getting meaningful answers to legitimate questions,
whether the questions are directed at the developer, public officials
or anyone else. This has been made abundantly clear from what I have
posted since 2006.

All who participate with the intention of asking legitimate questions
or answering questions openly and honestly are doing a service for the
community and should be commended for doing so.

This group now has 46 members, most of whom are Harmony residents.

Since this forum is open to everyone (residents and non-residents
alike, including the developer), I know that many more than the few
folks who have signed up for emails from this newsgroup (or who
actually post messages here) are also reading these messages. Some
weeks Google has reported hundreds of views to this newsgroup.

Everyone is welcome and all constructive contributions are
appreciated.

Jim, you neglected to include what you previously tried to post on the
other thread. Please feel free to repost your messages on this thread.
> http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/28efff953f41f7e9http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/0c5d89777ed5e67bhttp://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/0ab81b15afc13f96http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/6f72f6917a0b780bhttp://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/8bbfd21028227be1http://groups.google.com/group/harmonyfl/msg/bca6b5eb5b9a8628

James Warren

unread,
Dec 3, 2010, 8:13:49 AM12/3/10
to harm...@googlegroups.com
No george you are all about belittleing people who try to make open discussion,
especially when you are wrong, or a point is made you do not agree on.

That is not open nor fair.

46 member most of who are non contributers, beacuse they fear the nasty backlash
when they post their point of view.

Google rates the forum as low participation.

46 member from 1,000 residents, and possible 15 of those members are starwood
employees.....

 


----- Original Message ----
From: Geo <IIDIMG...@spammotel.com>
To: HarmonyFL <harm...@googlegroups.com>

>8

Geo

unread,
Dec 3, 2010, 6:52:06 PM12/3/10
to HarmonyFL
I think that your facts are a little off Jim. As of today the
developer is advertising this on its website:

Today, the thriving community of Harmony is home to
approximately 1,000 residents, many of them families.

I am guessing that the developer's website is where you got your
information Jim, but Harmony is not yet thriving and I don't think
that it is home to that many people either. The number "1,000" may
have been close to accurate a few years ago (before all of the
foreclosures and repossessions), but I seriously doubt that it is true
today (although honestly I have not canvassed the neighborhood
recently).

According to the Osceola County Supervisor of elections, there are 628
registered voters in Harmony. Of those registered voters there is no
way to know how many are homeowners and how many are renters. Only 224
Harmony residents actually voted this year. I am inclined to believe
that homeowners are much more likely to vote than renters. So who
knows, there may be 500 or more renters living in Harmony. I am sure
that we can all agree that these folks would have little if any
interest in these discussions.

Here's an interesting fact that I picked up while speaking to the
folks at the elections office. Not only can renters vote for Harmony
CDD supervisors, but they can also run for CDD supervisor seats in
Harmony. I see nothing wrong with this, but it is surprising since
renters don't actually pay CDD taxes directly.

As the moderator of this group I have been very lax with the
journalistic standards applied here. Until now childish prater and
insults have been tolerated while often ignored. I am ashamed to admit
that I have at times succumbed to the temptation to participate in the
childishness myself, much Derek's chagrin.

Now that we have a few public officials in and around Harmony willing
to exchange ideas openly in a forum like this, I have no choice but to
try to limit interference with this activity by folks who want to
prevent open and honest online discourse about Harmony.

Using phrases like "our elected officials really that incompetent",
"No one contributes and no one wants to", "Are you trying to create
friction" and "newbies here at elected level" is not helpful to an
open and honest discussion about anything, let alone something as
important as the possible closing of the Harmony fire station. But
unlike the closed Yahoo group that Jim mentions in his other thread
(see http://tinyurl.com/27b3d69 ), no one is censored here. In this
forum you can continue to write whatever you like until your personal
attacks become excessive. But unless you have something constructive
to contribute, your contributions will have to reside on your own
threads so that you don't interfere with the serious discussions
happening on other threads.

Every word that you have ever posted to this forum has been published
here Jim (also including those you chose not to repost in your other
thread, see below). But in the future, please stick to your own
threads, unless you decide to choose civility over acrimony. You can
choose to continue your harassment on other threads, but that would be
a choice to censor yourself.

With freedom comes responsibility. You have the freedom, but now you
also have more structure and responsibility, and hopefully you will
have a little more civility Jim. If you cannot be civil, it will at
least be easier for folks to move on to other threads if they so
choose.

FYI, there's a group named "Dads and Moms" (Parenting Forum for Dads
and Moms) with several times more members than people who live in
Harmony (4031). But in your words Jim "Google rates the forum as low
participation" even though messages were posted there recently. So by
Google's standard, it looks like the 145 member closed Yahoo group
(which was started by the developer, has been advertised by the
developer for years and really does practice censorship with maybe a
dozen or so active posters) would also fall into the same "low
participation" category.

While this group actually includes only one Starwood employee and only
one Harmony Development employee as members (as far as I can tell), I
happen to know that several other Starwood folks have also been
reading these messages while not actually being members (as do various
other Harmony Development employees).

Finally, and contrary to what you wrote in your other thread Jim
(again see http://tinyurl.com/27b3d69 ), you actually attempted to
post 3 (not 2) non-constructive messages to the "Saving Harmony's Fire
Station" thread, including the one that starts "As you are sensoring
input and discussion, I will no longer particpate in the firum." Here
they are, verbatim (click "- Show quoted text -"):




-----Original Message-----
From: James Warren [mailto:jm_w...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 11:37 AM
To: harm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HarmonyFL:815] Re: Saving Harmony's Fire Station


Lets not get carried away here guys.

1. No one has stated that the Harmony station will be closed. Only
that A
station MAY have to close.
2. Would, or are our elected officials really that incompetent to want
to close
a brand new state of the art facility, close to 2 major schools, a
soon to be
built gas station, a soon to be built sports facility and one of the
most
affluent areas of this district, when there are older, less used
stations that
could be sacrificed? Really are they??? They should take a good look
in the
mirror if they are........
3. This forum is NOT the place for this discussion. No one contributes
and no
one wants to (also not everyone has or wants access). If you want the
residents
voice, then call a town hall meeting. You will get a higher turn out,
and better
feedback.

Lets not cause unnecessary panic and rumour. Lets hear facts and
truth.

Jim




-----Original Message-----
From: James Warren [mailto:jm_w...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 11:08 AM
To: harm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HarmonyFL:818] RE: Saving Harmony's Fire Station


George,

Where do you get the information that says Harmony Fire Station is to
close?

On all the information I have seen, it states A fire Station COULD
close?

Why do you interpret that as Harmony will close?
Are you trying to create friction between the Union , the community
and the
commissioners?

Jim




-----Original Message-----
From: James Warren [mailto:jm_w...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 7:42 AM
To: harm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HarmonyFL:821] Re: Saving Harmony's Fire Station


George,

As you are sensoring input and discussion, I will no longer particpate
in the
firum.

I will also let everyone know this fact, and show them that you post
what YOU
wnat to hear, and have no concern for others.

You have been found out.

Free and open discussion ny ars!!!

Jim

James Warren

unread,
Dec 4, 2010, 1:13:06 PM12/4/10
to harm...@googlegroups.com
I dont see that my facts are off at all George. Around 1,000 residents is not a
bad guess. And since you state you have not canvassed the area, you have no
facts to back up your disagreement of the figures.

But my point is that 46 members of which 50% are probably non residents of
Harmony is hardly a fair % to discuss Harmony issues is it?

Maybe you have not noticed but a lot of the foreclosures are now occupied by
residents / renters now, and that I believe our numbers are up from last year in
terms of residents.
I am sure one of our local realtors could provide a figure.

Your assumption that renters would not be interested in Harmony and it's issues
is a little insulting to renters I think. I know a lot of renters here that are
very passionate about the community, so again your presumption is incorrect, and
I'd like to see your facts backing this up.

It's interesting that your stance on moderation has now changed since the
inclusion of Tom, Adam and the CDD officials don't you think?
But I have to disagree with your view that my post breached any rules, or
insulted anyone.

My post was factual, and asked the question, where did you get the information
that "harmony Fire Station" specifically was to close? This is a valid question
is it not?
My feelings that if it was correct and did close, that in my heart this was be a
grand error of judgement by people elected to support our community, and is also
just my opinion, and I do not see how it could insult anyone. But you did not
allow it to be posted. This was my point.... Yet in your response below you act
like you did not block it.


BUT YOU DID twice!! So please dont confuse the official Harmony YAHOO group with
your pretend resident group.

George says "Every word that you have ever posted to this forum has been
published
here Jim "
I have 2 posts Dec 1st and 2nd, that I listed in this last email, that did not
make the board George. I see the discussion, and I have my response kept on
file, yet they did not appear, and other post were posted after those
dates...... Maybe you have a technical issue?


George, the only reason your group gets posts, is because you start them, insult
a resident, and it starts a big arguement like you are doing now. It does not
mean it represents the community, nor mean it is popular.
I stand by my post to the elected officials here, and suggest they dont get
involved. It will not be conduscive to their interests. If they want to reach
out to the community they should do it, via media or town hall meetings. It's
just my opinion but I believe it is an opinion based on past and present history
of this forum. But they are free to go back through the history on the site to
see how the forum has been in the past, and ask themselves the question, "Do I
really want my posts to become embroiled in this type of activity". Again IMHO.

In your last paragraph, you are again wrong. I attempted to post twice, which
you block, and the 3rd is a post you allowed which included the first 2 posts.
(seems a little starnge, since you also state you did block as part of you new
Non lax standards...
Again I see nothing wrong in those posts, as they ask a valid question in all of
them, which you have failed to answer

Where do you get the information that the Harmony Fire Station is to close
George?? where?? That's all the post wanted to know.
No insults no name calling, just honest discussion following on from your
scaremongering to try and entice certain individuals to comment on your lame
forum.

But I guess you will disagree, and post more rubbish about me personally, of
which if anyone knows or talks to me, will know is not true.. Only you belive
that I am a bad guy George. But I guess it's because I dont like you, that you
see me that way. Your loss, I guess you don't like me too.

Jim

 


----- Original Message ----
From: Geo <IIDIMG...@spammotel.com>
To: HarmonyFL <harm...@googlegroups.com>

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