Developer Censorship

[Geo]

Summary:

.) This newsgroup has been falsely accused of
censorship, yet there has been no censorship here.

.) The accusers are all developer advocates, yet in
Harmony the developer does all of the censorship.

.) What the advocates claim as censorship is simply
fair and impartial group moderation policy.

.) Almost anything (not spam or hate speech) that
does not at first appear in this forum can be
resubmitted in another context and appear.

.) 3 independent backup moderators guarantee fairness.

Detail:

We have a few conflicted parties who often shout "CENSORSHIP" whenever the
nonsense they post does not appear exactly when and where they think it
should. The two prominent examples of this are long-standing developer
advocates who I refer to as "Agents of Starwood" (see
http://tinyurl.com/79ff2a8 ). They are David Leeman and Jim Warren. Leeman
and Warren have been doing their shtick in this forum for years.

Whenever these guys cry "CENSORSHIP" they always fail to mention that we
have 3 independent backup moderators for this newsgroup, including two
attorneys and one former newspaper editor. To my understanding, Leeman and /
or Warren have complained to these moderators repeatedly. Yet the moderators
have not yet agreed with their baseless complaints. If any moderator does
agree with a complaint, Leeman's, Warren's or anyone else's, that moderator
is free to release the post. Thus no censorship.

If a moderator chooses not to release a post, it is for good reason. More
often than not such unreleased posts are spam. On rare occasions a post will
not be released because it does not adhere to the rather loose editorial
guidelines enforced in this newsgroup (guideline far more lax than any
newspaper).

The typical example of a post that does not appear is one that is obviously
unrelated to the topic of discussion. At such times the writer is always
free to start a new thread with their off-topic post. Such "reposts" have
always gone through except when the poster is attacking someone or using an
inappropriate subject title. The bottom line: all it takes is one moderator
to agree that the author's post should be released and it is released.

That's how it works in a fair and open forum like this, one that allows all
sides of every debate to have an equal voice. Now consider how it works on
the developer's websites.

Starwood / Harmony Development Company maintains several websites. Their
primary website ( http://HarmonyFL.com ), which seems to change with the
seasons, only includes so-called "testimonials" from residents. Yet these
testimonials are questionable at best since the "testimony" is from people
who can't be identified or questioned. There is no way for residents to
voice their concerns on the developer's primary website.

The one developer website which does allow for input from residents (
http://EventsAtHarmony.com ) has a moderation policy that, unlike this
forum, allows for the developer to edit posts before they are released (see
"Harmony Festivals", http://tinyurl.com/d86wbgh ). On top of that, anything
posted by residents can't be readily viewed by anyone else since casual
readers have no way to know the trick of clicking blog headers to see what
was posted.

Thus the only so-called "censorship" in Harmony is perpetrated by the
developer, not by the moderators of this newsgroup.

Here's another form of censorship. It is exercised by the developer's
advocates (again see "Agents of Starwood" http://tinyurl.com/79ff2a8 ).

Multiple times in the past, Leeman or Warren have responded to something
that I have written in this forum by posting their responses in another
forum, one that is private, closed and inaccessible to the public at large.
Even read-only access requires special permission from folks closely aligned
with the developer. I am referring to the Harmony group on Yahoo. These
developer agents copy my posts from here to there along with their
responses, responses that I can't subsequently refute in the closed Yahoo
group.

Here's a typical example. Jim Warren acknowledged this in a recent post (see
"Harmony with Nature?", http://tinyurl.com/arqbec3 ).

Warren apparently copied my post from here to the Yahoo group along with his
response. That begs the question. Did Warren then also copy my subsequent
response to the same closed Yahoo group so that all of his Yahoo readers
could see it? I am guessing that he didn't (as of this writing). Why?
Because, IMHO, he and his developer friends are hypocritically inclined to
practice the kind of censorship that he accuses of others.

[Jim Warren(Home)]

Your little dig at me leaves out one major flaw Schiro (since you are now
reverting to surnames), that my first post was blocked by you, yet it
contained nothing but facts. Facts you did not want to post.
You block posts at your whim, yet never respond to the poster as to the
reason why the posts were blocked. Again showing that your moderation is
totally biased to what you want to see posted.

Your attempt to discredit Harmony, myself or Dave Leeman falls on deaf ears
Schiro, and since you have tried to bring this up now, shows that you are
the only person that thinks this way, as I believe the community is tired of
you and your ranting. Never has one person come forward on this forum to say
that your right, and that the people you try and belittle here are wrong,
not once........

So keep posting Schiro, if that makes you happy. No one cares about your
opinion anymore.

The community has moved on, and seems to be doing OK as far as I can see.

Ta ta

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[Geo]

As is typical of you and the other developer agents, what you write is false
and unsupported by the facts.

Did you post my response to you in the Yahoo group Jim?

[Jim Warren(Home)]

No, why should I? It's your post, you post it

[Geo]

Don't play dumb Jim.

I have been prevented from posting in the Yahoo group for at least 5 years
now. You and your developer buddies know that. Why am I prevented from
posting there Jim? Because the group is run by good friends of Starwood /
Harmony Development Company like you.

[Jim Warren(Home)]

Yeah your right. Friends...I see no problem with dealing and meeting with
anyone from the development company because they are good people. They have
done a pretty good job here, I think IMHO.

I don't know why you are prevented exactly, but I guess it's because you are
not nice to anyone when you have posted there. That's why you set up your
own forum, with just you on here that posts...
Would that be an accurate assumption?

[Geo]

Good people? Good people don't make up outrageous lies about their customers
for the purpose of sending armed police officers to their homes to
intimidate them into silence. But then again, as you have said before Jim,
lying is OK. Everyone does it, right?

Jim wrote:

I guess it's because you are not nice to anyone when
you have posted there.

Why do you have to guess Jim? All the messages are still there, unless they
were deleted by your friends who moderate that forum. Search through the
messages and produce some evidence to support your claim.

On the contrary, all I did is write the truth about Harmony Development
Company, like I do here.

Jim wrote:

That's why you set up your own forum, with just you on
here that posts... Would that be an accurate
assumption?

Here are some of the people besides myself who have posted here:

Adam Seithel, Osceola Firefighters President
Bob Geimer, VP of Starwood Capital
Fred Hawkins, Osceola County Commissioner
Gary Moyer, Harmony CDD Manager
Jay Wheeler, Osceola County School Board
Kelvin Soto, Osceola County School Board Elect
Mary Guidone, Spokesperson for Toho Water Authority
Nancy Smith, Vice Chair Osceola Democratic Party
Ray Walls, Harmony CDD Supervisor
Shad Tome, President of Harmony Development Company
Stacy McCland, Florida Senate Candidate
Steve Berube, Harmony CDD Supervisor
Tom Long, Osceola County School Board

Posters have come and gone while many still remain. And they continue to
post as needed.

No. As is typical Jim, your assumptions are not accurate.

[Jim Warren(Home)]

Yeah you do George.
If you were actually a little more courteous to people you would not see
such severe reactions.
As I've said before you reap what you sow...

Your little list means nothing George, how many of these people no longer
post or respond?

13 names from a community of 1,000 and only 2 are residents.... yeah my
assumptions are way off... Reality check Mr. Schiro!!!!!

[Geo]

You couldn't find even a single example to support your claims Jim? Are you
just making things up?

The 13 posters listed are just those with some notoriety. Many others have
posted in this forum over the years. What is sad is that you know all of
that Jim, yet you are just being dishonest, as developer agents are oft
inclined to be.

I am guessing that you still haven't posted my final manatee response in the
Yahoo group Jim. You seem to think that having only one side of a debate
(the developer's side) fully expressed in that closed forum is perfectly
fair , thereby giving your readers the false impression that nothing more
was said from the other side of that debate.

The reality is that while you regularly scream "CENSORSHIP", your rights to
post your unsupported bunk are not infringed in the slightest in this fair
and open forum. Yet you, Leeman and Starwood / Harmony Development Company
seem perfectly OK limiting the rights of others at every opportunity.

Can you see the irony in any of this Jim?

[Jim Warren(Home)]

No George I don't see it.

You have your opinion. I have mine. Don't you see it?

Perhaps if you stopped shouting "fire" all the time, or trying to change the
subject you might be taken seriously. Na, who am I kidding, those bridges
are well and truly burnt... never mind.

PS what examples to what claim??? Again you read something that just is not
there....
You are nasty, you do insult people, and you are a pretentious pompous ass.
Again my opinion. No example necessary. No irony, just how I see it. Again
you try and make an issue when there is none.

The fact is, I posted, you blocked. The post I have a copy of if you need
it. That is the only thing that should be discussed in the post , but as
usual you try and change the subject, and begin a tiresome rhetoric of
hating the developer.
It's tiresome , it's boring, and you show once again you are not the person
to mediate a forum.

Get ready for some white noise.................