Harmony Developer Fails to Disclose Gas Pipelines

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George Schiro

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Sep 15, 2013, 5:14:18 PM9/15/13
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Summary

A cell phone call from your child during a serious natural gas leak in
Harmony could spark a major explosion.

Starwood / Harmony Development Company failed to disclose the presence of 2
immense natural gas pipelines running through land donated for the
elementary school in Harmony.

The Harmony Community School (and much of Harmony) is in a "high consequence
area" (see attachment "HarmonyGasPipelines.bmp"), according to the natural
gas industry. The industry defined "safe evacuation distance" from these
pipelines is approximately 2163 feet (almost half a mile).

The Harmony Community School is 140 feet from one pipeline and 180 feet from
the other, the largest natural gas pipeline in Osceola County.

The Harmony Community School opened in 2008. Yet the principal there since
its inception did not know about these gas pipelines until 2 months ago.

Parents were finally informed only a few weeks ago.

Starwood never told anyone that nearly a half billion cubic feet of
explosive natural gas would be flowing right next to the Harmony elementary
school each and every day.


Details

What is the most natural thing for a child to do during an emergency these
days? While everyone is running out of the school and smelling gas
everywhere, what will Kaylee do? She will turn on her cell phone and call
her mother. If not Kaylee, another child will call or text a parent or a
sibling. This is inevitable.

Yet such a simple act - using a cell phone during a gas leak - may trigger
an explosion, killing or injuring many near the school (see attachment
"GasEmergencyResponse.pdf").

Did you know this?

According to Pipelines and Informed Planning Alliance guidelines (see "PIPA
Recommended Practice BL05", http://tinyurl.com/m28huqf ), the multi-billion
dollar Starwood Capital Group must have known this when they donated land
for the Harmony elementary school. Yet they told no one who lives in
Harmony, nor the principal, nor the school district, nor anyone with
children in the school.

But Starwood is just a thing. It has no heart. It has no soul. It does not
feel for your children or mine.

Starwood does not care about the safety of elementary school children. If it
did, the parents of these children would have been fully informed long ago.
Starwood cares only that an elementary school is useful for selling houses
in Harmony (see "Painting by Numbers", http://tinyurl.com/obw3tlx ).

Before getting into the meat of this matter I want to thank David Leeman for
being the first to bring Harmony's gas pipelines to public attention and
inspiring me to pursue a full investigation. Although he was dismissive of
their significance to our community at the time, Dave's willingness to at
least write openly about a gas pipeline in Harmony is commendable (he
apparently only knew about one, see "Request for Fred Hawkins 7-1-2013",
http://tinyurl.com/kvd78re ).

According to the Pipeline Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA),
natural gas pipelines alone accounted for more than 80 explosions and fires
in the US during 2012 (see "Pipeline Explosions Since 2001",
http://tinyurl.com/p3qfxlu ).

Two immense natural gas pipelines run right through the center of Harmony.
According to their owner, Florida Gas Transmission Company (FGTC), these
pipelines provide the bulk of the fuel for power generation in Florida.

The larger of the two pipelines is only 2 sizes smaller than the maximum
pipeline size available in the US for natural gas (42"). Together these
pipelines move nearly a half billion standard cubic feet of explosive
natural gas within 180 feet of the Harmony Community School every day.

Sheila Martin of the Smalley Foundation and the School Pipeline Safety
Partnership says "These schools [those less than 660 to 1000 feet or more
from a gas pipeline] are considered 'high consequence areas' (HCA) according
to pipeline regulatory agencies like PHMSA, DOT, RP1162, etc." Only 1 in 20
schools in the United States is located within a half-mile (2640 feet) of a
pipeline (see attachment "SchoolPipelineSafetyPartnership.pdf").

Harmony Community School is among the unlucky 5%.

According to the National Pipeline Mapping System (see
http://www.npms.phmsa.dot.gov ), there are only 2 natural gas pipelines in
Osceola County - running side-by-side - that are large enough to appear on
its map. As previously stated, they both run right through the center of
Harmony. Not only is the elementary school affected, but many homes in
Harmony are well within the "high consequence area" of these pipelines also.

Based on Harmony's natural gas pipeline diameter of 30" (the largest in
Osceola County, according to Osceola County Emergency Management Director
Richard Collins) and its maximum allowable operating pressure (according to
FGTC), the actual "Recommended Minimum Evacuation Distances For Natural Gas
Pipeline Leaks and Ruptures" is about 2163 feet in Harmony (almost half a
mile). This is according to the Pipeline Association for Public Awareness
(see attachment "EvacuationDistanceChart.pdf"). Like the school, most of the
homes in Harmony are also less than this distance from these pipelines.

The gas pipelines in Harmony are "odorized" with the chemical ethyl
mercaptan for the purposes of leak detection. That way normally odorless
natural gas will smell like propane (also odorless) which is very familiar
to barbecue enthusiasts everywhere.

The Harmony Community School Principal, Jon Davis, was completely unaware of
these pipelines next to his school. When told of the extremely high volume
of gas involved, Mr. Davis's secretary exclaimed "Oh my god!"

The school district reviewed the information available and quickly concluded
that it would be prudent to send letters to all parents of students who
attend the Harmony Community School informing them of these pipelines (see
attachment "SchoolLetter.jpg"). The school district could have been much
more informative, but at least they did something.

According to the Osceola School District's Director of Community Relations
as well as its Chief Facilities Officer, there is no documentation showing
disclosure of the gas pipelines on Harmony property by Starwood / Harmony
Development Company, land specifically donated for construction of the
elementary school in Harmony. The school district learned about the
pipelines only after doing its own inspections. Sadly, Mr. Davis was never
informed about the gas pipelines either by Starwood or the school district.

The land immediately adjacent (on the other side of the pipelines) will not
be developed for home construction either. Apparently the land donated for
the school was less valuable to the developer than more distant parcels. Yet
at the time, they issued a press release touting "Harmony Development
Company will donate the land (10 acres valued at $4,000,000)" (again see
"Painting by Numbers", http://tinyurl.com/obw3tlx ).

You will notice from the map (attachment "HarmonyGasPipelines.bmp") that the
area of Harmony shown in the upper right hand corner is the only set of
Harmony lots currently outside of the "safe evacuation distance".
Coincidentally, these are also the most expensive lots in Harmony.

As a Harmony resident myself, I was unable to find disclosure of any kind to
the hundreds of residents who have bought homes in Harmony and who now live
within the same "high consequence area" of these gas pipelines.

To date, Starwood / Harmony Development Company has offered no information
to existing home owners or to prospective home buyers about the potential
consequences of a gas pipeline accident. Nor have they offered any
educational programs on how Harmony home owners and their families can
prepare for such an accident. Nothing has been done to inform the public.

It is notable that these same gas pipelines were briefly discussed at a
Harmony CDD meeting in 2007 and quickly dismissed by a Starwood
representative as "not considered CDD business."

The recent fertilizer plant explosion in Texas resulted in 15 deaths.
Shortly thereafter oil train explosions in Quebec resulted in 42 deaths.
Osceola Commissioner Fred Hawkins was asked publicly about similar
potentially hazardous areas in Osceola County. He was explicitly asked about
gas pipelines (see "Request for Fred Hawkins - 2013-06-21",
http://tinyurl.com/pz3k2c8 ):

Are there any gas pipelines close to homes
or schools in Osceola County Fred?

Commissioner Hawkins' only answer was "Yes, we have gas lines." That was the
extent of his gas pipeline research on behalf of Osceola County citizens.
Commissioner Hawkins never hinted "You have giant gas pipelines in your own
backyard powering most of Florida."

Likewise, Commissioner Hawkins apparently asked no questions to anyone who
might know. The thought never crossed Commissioner Hawkins' mind to ask
about potential hazards under his watch in east Osceola or anywhere else in
Osceola County. Or if he had such thoughts, he was unwilling to share them.

Commissioner Hawkins never spoke a peep in public about the massive volumes
of potentially explosive natural gas running past Harmony's elementary
school every day. As an Osceola County Commissioner representing district 5
(where Harmony and the pipelines are located), how could he not have known?

Fred Hawkins may fear losing one of his biggest benefactors just by thinking
about gas pipelines in Harmony. So he refused to seriously answer questions
about gas pipelines or any other potential explosion hazard in Osceola
County. It should be noted that Starwood / Harmony Development folks were
Commissioner Hawkins' second largest campaign contributors during the recent
2012 election (after Disney).

Unwilling to look into the matter himself, it seems that Fred Hawkins along
with Starwood / Harmony Development (which also did not respond to
inquiries) would prefer that the general public be kept in the dark about
these pipelines. Getting nowhere with Starwood directly, my attempt to get
some reassurances from Brock Nicholas, current VP of Harmony Development
Company, also fell flat.

It seems that other than David Leeman, no one wants to talk about the
eye-popping reality of immense natural gas pipelines running through the
center of Harmony. Like the 3 monkeys, Starwood, Brock and Fred seem to want
to cover their eyes, ears and mouths when it comes to Harmony's pipelines.

While these same pipelines pass through St. Cloud, they veer away from the
densest areas of that city. Quite the opposite is true in Harmony. It would
seem that Starwood / Harmony Development Company went out of its way to cram
as many houses as close to these pipelines as possible.

Even the editor of the Osceola News Gazette, Brian McBride, (and apparently
its owner Dennis Wilkinson) so fears a lawsuit from the multi-billion dollar
Starwood company that he refused to publish this story after originally
saying he would. I asked him outright "Are you afraid of being sued by
Starwood?" McBride said "Yes." The sad truth is that little local newspapers
no longer have the wherewithal to properly investigate anything anymore.
Apparently their own financial safety is a higher priority to them than
investigating and keeping their readers informed of public safety issues at
home or in schools.

A Fox news piece from earlier this year illustrates the potential of what we
are talking about here:

Pipelines carry hazardous liquids underneath Colorado neighborhood
http://tinyurl.com/lh3m6b8

This section parallels the situation in Harmony:

Sinclair was so concerned about homes being built too
close to their pipeline, the company sent out a safety
brochure that says "no occupied dwellings within 100
feet." The diagram shows 50 feet on each side.

But some homes were built as close as 24 feet away.

Sinclair refused our request for an interview, but sent
us a statement which says in part, "...our pipeline was
originally installed in 1963 in what was then primarily
agricultural land..."

Still, Vaden doesn�t fault Sinclair, "The pipeline had
a right to be there, they were in there 50 years ago."
Instead he blames Rolling Hills Developer Bruce Gilliam
who built the homes much closer to the pipelines than
Sinclair recommended and the town that allowed him to
do it.

Gilliam also refused our repeated requests for an
interview. He referred us to town planner, John
Franklin.

Finally, it should be noted that The Smalley Foundation (mentioned earlier
in this article) was formed after the tragic death of 17 year-old Danielle
Smalley. She died in her valiant attempt to quickly notify others of a gas
leak in her own neighborhood. She died never knowing that merely starting
her car in the midst of a gas leak can cause an explosion.

Is the average Harmony resident aware of this?

I wasn't. Were you?
HarmonyGasPipelines.bmp
GasEmergencyResponse.pdf
SchoolPipelineSafetyPartnership.pdf
EvacuationDistanceChart.pdf
SchoolLetter.jpg

Stacy McCland

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Sep 15, 2013, 8:28:42 PM9/15/13
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I am really shocked! I always knew there was a gas line "somewhere" in Osceola. I looked at the national website, and it looks like it runs up and down 1-92 for the most part. It almost looks like Harmony was built around the gas lines. George -- do you know what their condition is? The lines in California that leaked, exploded and killed people were supposed to be updated in 2009, but that was put off on the schedule until 2013. And what does eventual maintenance entail? Probably a big mess right in the middle of Harmony. Not sounding very harmonious.....
 
Stacy McCland



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George Schiro

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Sep 15, 2013, 8:46:58 PM9/15/13
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To my understanding, these pipelines were updated in 2007. I believe that's what the discussion was about during the 2007 CDD meeting mentioned in the article.

George Schiro

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Sep 20, 2013, 7:35:10 PM9/20/13
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I received a phone call today from Florida Gas Transmission Company (FGTC).

FGTC previously asked me for a short list of contacts in the area, people
who I thought might like more information about the Harmony gas pipelines
and ways to properly educate the public at large about gas pipeline safety.

Here's the email I sent to FGTC's Vice President of Technical Services, Eric
Amundsen earlier this week:

From: George Schiro
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 7:36 AM
To: Amundsen, Eric J.
Subject: Osceola Contacts


Eric,

Here are the contacts you requested:

Harmony Community School
Jon Davis, Principal
407-892-1655
dav...@osceola.k12.fl.us

Harmony High School
Buddy Butler, Principal
407-933-9916
but...@osceola.k12.fl.us

Osceola County Commissioner
Fred Hawkins
407-742-2384
fh...@osceola.org

Good luck!

'Geo

Mr. Amundsen called me today to follow-up with the results of his initial
contacts with these folks.

The school principals routed their calls to Dana Schafer, Osceola School
District's Director of Community Relations.

Ms. Schafer responded very favorably to FGTC's overtures to help better
educate the school district about these gas pipelines. She agreed to have
FGTC meet with Mr. Davis to discuss emergency planning in depth. Then they
will all meet with Harmony Community School (HCS) staff and teachers to
discuss more of the same. FGTC suggested one thing that the school district
passed on (for now): meeting with parents to help educate their children
about gas leaks and cell phones. Hopefully the school district will
reconsider this in the near future.

During my phone call today with FGTC I also learned that they actually
provided most of the text used in the letter sent to HCS parents last month.
It is FGTC's position that the letter was sufficiently informative. We will
have to disagree on that point for now.

According to Mr. Amundsen, Fred Hawkins' position was quite different. While
Mr. Amundsen couldn't remember his words verbatim, he recalls Commissioner
Hawkins saying "We [the Osceola Commission] have no interest at this time in
meeting with you." Fred Hawkins gave the impression that he and the county
commission were all well aware of Florida Gas and their immense pipelines
running through Harmony.

Fred Hawkins was given exactly the same opportunities as the school district
to help better educate Harmony residents about these immense gas pipelines
in Harmony. Yet he rejected all of them.

Considering Mr. Hawkins' total lack of interest, I asked Dana Schafer if the
school district could do more. She responded "We are doing whatever we can
to inform the people affected within the school district. It is county's
responsibility and the developer's responsibility [Starwood / Harmony
Development Company's] to inform the wider Harmony community about the
pipelines near the school."

So while the school district seems to be taking this matter seriously, we
can only wonder why Fred Hawkins and his benefactors are not.

Dave Leeman

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Sep 21, 2013, 9:25:19 PM9/21/13
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Let's start with Mr Schiro's claim that,
"A cell phone call from your child during a serious natural gas leak in
Harmony could spark a major explosion."

I beg to differ. While, if there is something WRONG with your cell phone and it causes a spark, you may cause gas fumes to ignite, normal cell phone usage will NOT ignite gas fumes. Here is the relevant info from fcc.gov

https://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-phones-gas-stations


The Federal Communications Commission has been alerted to reports and rumors that suggest it is dangerous to use a wireless phone while filling your vehicle with gas or in the presence of flammable materials.

The rumors and reports may be fueled by warnings posted at gas stations or included in wireless phone owners’ manuals suggesting that wireless phones should not be used around fuel vapors.
There Is No Evidence That These Reports Are True

Me again.
Let me reiterate. "There Is No Evidence That These Reports Are True".
You can read the rest on the FCC website. Two things can cause fumes to ignite. If your cell phone battery explodes, or if you strike it hard enough against a metal object to cause a spark. (Which, by the way, is even less probable these days, since most kids have plastic cases for their phones.)

Can Mr Schiro provide the documentation of fatalities from normal use?

Second is Mr Schiro over the top fear mongering about everyone running from the school. Really? On what planet does "everyone run from the school"? Mr Schiro has exhibited faulty memory before, so let me remind him of how schools operate.

In the event of an emergency, NO ONE RUNS FROM THE SCHOOL.

Does Mr Schiro not remember fire drills from when he was in school? They simulate the building on fire. So even if the building is on fire, the teachers maintain order and kids line up and evacuate under close supervision.
Does Mr Schiro not remember bomb threats? That's when the school receives a call that there's a bomb in the school. So even when a bomb could explode any second, the kids line up and evacuate the school in good order.
And , of course, anyone as old as I am remembers the cold war nuclear explosion drills. That's when students stay in the school and "Duck and Cover" under the, again, close supervision of teachers.


So let's see if I have this straight. When a bomb might explode any second, when the building is actually on fire, when we are facing Nuclear Armageddon, no one runs from the building. Yet Mr Schiro would have us believe that everyone would totally lose control and run from the building because someone smells gas? ROTFL!!
> Still, Vaden doesn�t fault Sinclair, "The pipeline had

George Schiro

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Sep 21, 2013, 9:40:24 PM9/21/13
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Jim's link was essentially the same content as yours Dave. His was from a NY
Daily News article while yours is from the FCC website. Yours is definitely
a more credible source (not to say that Jim's reference was not credible).

Clearly, Jim's contention was that the gas in his car is equivalent to the
gas running through the pipelines in Harmony.

That would appear to be your contention as well Dave. Is that correct?


-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com]On
Behalf Of Dave Leeman
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:25 PM
To: harm...@googlegroups.com
Cc: gg
Subject: Re: Harmony Developer Fails to Disclose Gas Pipelines


> Still, Vaden doesn�t fault Sinclair, "The pipeline had
>
> a right to be there, they were in there 50 years ago."
>
> Instead he blames Rolling Hills Developer Bruce Gilliam
>
> who built the homes much closer to the pipelines than
>
> Sinclair recommended and the town that allowed him to
>
> do it.
>
>
>
> Gilliam also refused our repeated requests for an
>
> interview. He referred us to town planner, John
>
> Franklin.
>
>
>
> Finally, it should be noted that The Smalley Foundation (mentioned earlier
>
> in this article) was formed after the tragic death of 17 year-old Danielle
>
> Smalley. She died in her valiant attempt to quickly notify others of a gas
>
> leak in her own neighborhood. She died never knowing that merely starting
>
> her car in the midst of a gas leak can cause an explosion.
>
>
>
> Is the average Harmony resident aware of this?
>
>
>
> I wasn't. Were you?

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Dave Leeman

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Sep 22, 2013, 9:22:24 PM9/22/13
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You know, forum readers, Mr Schiro continues to amaze me. On what planet do you not post Mr Warren's comments and then ask me if I agree with those comments? Since many things are "clear" to Mr Schiro and not to me (and vice versa), perhaps Mr Schiro will be kind enough to post Jim Warren's comments so I can read what I'm agreeing or disagreeing with.
If he feels that it is necessary to edit Mr Warren's post to leave out the invective, so be it. Mr Warren claims to have left the group and won't care.

Of course, it shouldn't matter what Mr Warren wrote. It is clear from the FCC web site that only a MALFUNCTIONING (as in battery exploding) cell phone will cause fumes (of whatever kind) to ignite.

Also, it shouldn't matter what Mr Warren wrote if Mr Schiro has the documentation of deaths caused by explosions during NORMAL cell phone usage. He can just post that info and win the argument. Remember, striking a cell phone against an object hard enough to cause a spark is NOT normal usage.

Here is a Snopes article which buttresses my claim.

http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

Claim: Cellular phones have touched off explosions at gas stations.

FALSE

Does Mr Schiro have any evidence to back up his statement that "everyone" would be "running from the building"? (If gas is detected?)
> included in wireless phone owners� manuals suggesting that wireless phones
> > Still, Vaden doesn�t fault Sinclair, "The pipeline had

George Schiro

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Sep 23, 2013, 1:46:28 PM9/23/13
to gg
Summary


David Leeman and Jim Warren are just plain wrong. Don't believe them. They
are either woefully misinformed or unconscionably deceptive.

Do not use a cell phone during a serious natural gas leak.

Please make sure your children understand this, especially if they attend
the Harmony Community School.


Details


What a way to spend lunch!

We'll pretend for the moment that Dave and Jim don't know each other and
they are not really working together on this.

Here's what you asked for Dave, the NY Daily News link Jim wanted to post:

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/cell-phones-don-pump-fires-experts-article-
1.1123228

The link is long and may get fragmented depending on your email reader.

As you can see, Jim attempted to make exactly the same point that you did
Dave.

Anyway, as I stated on Jim's thread (see "Jim Warren Message",
http://tinyurl.com/prznlpd ), developer advocates are not capable of
rational discourse (see Jim Warren "Full Disclosure",
http://tinyurl.com/p5oectb and David Leeman "Full Disclosure",
http://tinyurl.com/7gvcu3j ).

I asked a simple question which Dave ignored (as he often does):

Jim's contention was that the gas in his car is
equivalent to the gas running through the pipelines in
Harmony.

That would appear to be your contention as well Dave.
Is that correct?

Jim and Dave think that Harmony's immense natural gas pipelines together are
like a gas station where we can fill-up our cars. I know these guys aren't
that ignorant. The only explanation for this bizarre counterpoint is an
attempt to distract readers from the truth in their misguided efforts to
protect their multi-billion dollar Starwood friends from the criticism they
most assuredly deserve.

For the record, gasoline (a flammable liquid) is not the same thing as
natural gas (an actual gas - as "state of matter": solid, liquid, gas).

The vapor emanating from gasoline (a liquid) is not the same thing as
methane gas (the primary component of natural gas).

Here's what Wikipedia says about the safety of gasoline (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Safety ):

Like other alkanes, gasoline burns in a limited range
of its vapor phase and, coupled with its volatility,
this makes leaks highly dangerous when sources of
ignition are present.

Here's what it says about the safety of methane (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Safety ):

Methane is not toxic; however, it is extremely
flammable and may form explosive mixtures with air.
Methane is violently reactive with oxidizers, halogens,
and some halogen-containing compounds.

This is why Dave's FCC link is irrelevant. Here's what it says (see
https://www.fcc.gov/guides/wireless-phones-gas-stations ):

Wireless Devices at Gas Stations

Background

The Federal Communications Commission has been alerted
to reports and rumors that suggest it is dangerous to
use a wireless phone while filling your vehicle with
gas or in the presence of flammable materials.

The rumors and reports may be fueled by warnings posted
at gas stations or included in wireless phone owners�
manuals suggesting that wireless phones should not be
used around fuel vapors.

The term "gas" above means "gasoline" not "natural gas" or "methane". And if
you think "natural gas" falls within the FCC's category of "flammable
materials" you would also be mistaken.

Neither natural gas nor methane appears on Wikipedia's list of flammable
materials (see http://tinyurl.com/na5a5nc ), all of which are liquids or
solids.

Why doesn't natural gas appear on the "flammable" list? Most likely because
natural gas is not merely flammable. It is explosive.

Again, Harmony's gas pipelines transport natural gas that powers most of the
state of Florida. It's not a gas station.

While the FCC (one department of the federal government) regards using a
cell phone near gas stations as safe, it says nothing about using cell
phones near a serious natural gas leak.

The DOT, another department of the federal government, takes the opposite
position about using cell phones near a natural gas leak (see
http://tinyurl.com/lkdadya ):

Recognizing and Responding to Natural Gas Emergencies
in Your Home or Workplace:

If you notice the distinctive "rotten egg" smell of
odorized natural gas, follow these DO's and DONT's.

DO NOT!

Start an engine of any kind;

Strike matches or create a flame of any kind;

Use a telephone or cell phone
(these can ignite airborne gases);

Turn on or off any light switches, garage door
openers or other electrical switches (these also
can ignite airborne gases).

This eHow link sums up the difference between cell phone usage at gas
stations versus cell phone usage during natural gas leaks:

Use of Cell Phones in Explosive Areas
http://tinyurl.com/osmzzxa

Finally, here's something that anyone can do at home. Google this (quotation
marks included):

"cell phone" "natural gas"

Here are the relevant links I found on the very first page:

LG&E - Natural Gas Safety Information
http://tinyurl.com/mokwpfe

City Utilities
Playing it Safe Around Natural Gas
http://tinyurl.com/7qurm7r

conEdison - Natural Gas safety
http://tinyurl.com/6uzpw9c

Atmos Energy - FAQ: Safety Information
http://tinyurl.com/lno92ub

Richmond, VA - Natural Gas Safety
What You Need to Know
http://tinyurl.com/kzpckcd

PSNC Energy - Gas Safety Awareness
http://tinyurl.com/q6zb28h

Maine - MPUC Encourages the
Safe Use of Propane and Natural Gas
http://tinyurl.com/pkqdbfa

Rock Energy Coop - Natural Gas
Stay safe during natural gas emergencies
http://tinyurl.com/o6fg3f9

PSE&G - EDUCATION & SAFETY
NATURAL GAS SAFETY
http://tinyurl.com/o3buedp

Each and every one of the pages above warns people in the strongest possible
terms to get out of the area of a natural gas leak before using a cell
phone. Do not use a cell phone near a natural gas leak! And don't start your
car either!

All we can do is scratch our heads and wonder how anyone with access to all
this information would continue to pretend that using cell phones during a
serious natural gas leak is safe.

What kind of a person would try to persuade parents with children at the
Harmony Community School that cell phone use by their child is the proper
thing to do during a natural gas emergency?

Here's one last link to consider. It is a documented explosion at another
30" section of the Florida Gas Transmission pipeline in Louisiana (same size
as in Harmony).

Gas line explodes in Washington Parish
http://tinyurl.com/l4dbfr5

Dallas-based Energy Transfer Partners owns Florida Gas
Transmission. The company has thousands of miles of
pipelines along the Gulf Coast.

This is not the first time a part of the Florida Gas
Transmission in Louisiana exploded. At 3 a.m. on Feb.
13, 2012, a pipe segment in an unpopulated wooded area
just east of Zachary blew out, causing no injuries,
according to records filed with the Department of
Transportation's Pipeline & Hazardous Materials Safety
Administration.

Of course, David Leeman will say "No one died! Therefore cell phones must be
safe!". How does one respond to such logic?

All I can say is that there were 25 successful space shuttle missions before
Challenger exploded. NASA engineers provided many warnings in advance about
what could go wrong.

Reasonable people don't argue that rational precautions are unnecessary
since nothing has gone wrong yet. Doing so is not only irrational, it is
irresponsible.


-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com]On
Behalf Of Dave Leeman
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:22 PM
To: harm...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Harmony Developer Fails to Disclose Gas Pipelines


George Schiro

unread,
Sep 24, 2013, 10:29:50 PM9/24/13
to gg
Neither David Leeman nor Jim Warren nor Ray Walls can have any rational
rebuttal here. So I will finally put this topic to rest.

If you are still inclined to believe the misinformation offered by Starwood
/ Harmony Development Company's spokesmen in this forum (ie. Dave, Jim and
now Ray), please read on.

I just received another document from Sheila Martin of the Smalley
Foundation / School Pipeline Safety Partnership (you can contact Sheila
directly at 972-472-6500).

See page 12 of attachment ("NENA56-007Pipelines.pdf"):

2. If the caller is within two city blocks
or approximately 1000 feet (300 meters) of:

...

.) Dirt blowing from a small hole in the ground
with a hissing or whistling noise

.) A large outside area where the odor of
rotten eggs or a burnt match is strong

THE CALLER IS IN IMMEDIATE DANGER!

An immediate directive shall be given to
evacuate the area. Tell the caller to:

.) Avoid any action that might create a spark:

Do NOT start a vehicle
- abandon all vehicles and equipment
Do NOT turn on or off lights
Do NOT open or close windows
Do NOT attempt to shut any valves
Do NOT hang up the phone � just set it down
Do NOT carry a cordless phone with you
� just set it down
Do NOT use a cell phone until you are in a
safe location away from the leak

.) Evacuate the area on foot and move away from
the leak (in an upwind and uphill direction
if possible) at least four city blocks or
approximately 2500 feet (750 meters)

.) Alert others to evacuate the area
and keep people away

.) Wait for responders to arrive

.) If the situation worsens or changes in any way,
and it is safe to do so, call 9-1-1 again

If your children or other children that you know attend Harmony Community
School, please don't withhold this information from them or their parents.

Likewise, if you or someone you know has a home within 600 to 1000 feet of
these pipelines (see attachment "HarmonyGasPipelines.jpg"), at least make
them aware of the facts. Don't make their decision for them.

While the likelihood of an accident is low, the likelihood of a disaster is
high if there IS an accident and even a few people are unaware of these
guidelines.


-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com]On
Behalf Of George Schiro
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 1:46 PM
To: gg
Subject: RE: Harmony Developer Fails to Disclose Gas Pipelines


Summary


David Leeman and Jim Warren are just plain wrong. Don't believe them. They
are either woefully misinformed or unconscionably deceptive.

Do not use a cell phone during a serious natural gas leak.

Please make sure your children understand this, especially if they attend
the Harmony Community School.


Details


What a way to spend lunch!

We'll pretend for the moment that Dave and Jim don't know each other and
they are not really working together on this.

...
NENA56-007Pipelines.pdf
HarmonyGasPipelines.jpg

Dave Leeman

unread,
Sep 25, 2013, 10:29:16 AM9/25/13
to harm...@googlegroups.com, gg
OK. Let's indeed put this issue to rest. Mr Schiro is right. I was wrong. It is indeed wrong to use a cell phone (or anything else) when experiencing a natural gas leak. End of story.

Now that Mr Schiro has proven himself right on the cell phone issue, now he should back up his other claim. That "everyone" will be "running from the building" during a NG emergency. I still say baloney, but I've just been proven wrong on the cell phone thing. Can Mr Schiro back up his other claim?
> Do NOT hang up the phone � just set it down
>
> Do NOT carry a cordless phone with you
>
> � just set it down

George Schiro

unread,
Sep 25, 2013, 11:59:54 AM9/25/13
to harm...@googlegroups.com
Well that was uncharacteristically magnanimous of you Dave. I thank you for
that.

Regarding "running from the building", I was only able to find your use of
that phrase Dave. So I'm not sure what you are referring to. On that basis,
we can continue this line of discussion on the "Jim Warren Message" thread
if you like.

This topic is now closed.


-----Original Message-----
From: harm...@googlegroups.com [mailto:harm...@googlegroups.com]On
Behalf Of Dave Leeman
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 10:29 AM
To: harm...@googlegroups.com
Cc: gg
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