How many mumps programmers in the world?

[Kevin Toppenberg]

Hey all,

I was working with someone and they were looking over my shoulder at mumps code.  They asked an estimate for how many mumps programmers there were in the world.

Off the cuff, I guessed 200, but on reflection, that has to be way too low, right?

What do you all think?  2,000? 20,000?  2 million?

Thanks for your guesses in advance.

Kevin

[Rebecca Bennett]

I know 7 in Ada, OK!

Becky Bennett, RN BSN
Clinical Applications Coordinator
Sovereign Technology
IT -IT Health & Family Services
Dept of Commerce
the Chickasaw Nation

On Dec 18, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Kevin Toppenberg <kdt...@gmail.com> wrote:



--
--
http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats [groups.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats__;!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Mc2LfGU2LfWUXRLDj9D0AXC55WnvgHne9rRIk0PCkGNvLg7xZTO962am_lhg5P7XKu2_P5k$>
To unsubscribe, send email to Hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/716f80a1-06d6-494c-8c9c-abfa96891cben%40googlegroups.com [groups.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/716f80a1-06d6-494c-8c9c-abfa96891cben*40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer__;JQ!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Mc2LfGU2LfWUXRLDj9D0AXC55WnvgHne9rRIk0PCkGNvLg7xZTO962am_lhg5P7XQODcVg8$>.

[Kevin Toppenberg]

Becky,

Are you saying that you know 7 programmers who know the ADA language?  Or is Ada a location in Oklahoma, and you know 7 programmers living there who know mumps?  I suspect the later.

Thanks

Kevin

[Arthur Ingram]

Yes Ada small town Oklahoma 

[Rebecca Bennett]

Yes, we have 7 MUMPS programmers here.


On Dec 19, 2021, at 3:45 PM, Arthur Ingram <kg9...@aezbiz.com> wrote:

Yes Ada small town Oklahoma

On Sunday, December 19, 2021 at 8:14:18 AM UTC-6 kdt...@gmail.com wrote:
Becky,

Are you saying that you know 7 programmers who know the ADA language? Or is Ada a location in Oklahoma, and you know 7 programmers living there who know mumps? I suspect the later.

Thanks
Kevin

On Saturday, December 18, 2021 at 9:26:00 PM UTC-5 becky....@chickasaw.net wrote:
I know 7 in Ada, OK!

Becky Bennett, RN BSN
Clinical Applications Coordinator
Sovereign Technology
IT -IT Health & Family Services
Dept of Commerce
the Chickasaw Nation

On Dec 18, 2021, at 7:47 PM, Kevin Toppenberg <kdt...@gmail.com> wrote:


Hey all,

I was working with someone and they were looking over my shoulder at mumps code. They asked an estimate for how many mumps programmers there were in the world.

Off the cuff, I guessed 200, but on reflection, that has to be way too low, right?

What do you all think? 2,000? 20,000? 2 million?

Thanks for your guesses in advance.

Kevin

--
--

http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats [groups.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats__;!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Oukc1xFB9fX1pIU3fgHSz1CrbM0mORRMyZFgJNb7spscqRUWWfBJgdgBFtrPaitBwFAv_KM$> [groups.google.com [groups.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com__;!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Oukc1xFB9fX1pIU3fgHSz1CrbM0mORRMyZFgJNb7spscqRUWWfBJgdgBFtrPaitBXkPW83g$>]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats__;!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Mc2LfGU2LfWUXRLDj9D0AXC55WnvgHne9rRIk0PCkGNvLg7xZTO962am_lhg5P7XKu2_P5k$>

To unsubscribe, send email to Hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com>.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/716f80a1-06d6-494c-8c9c-abfa96891cben%40googlegroups.com [groups.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/716f80a1-06d6-494c-8c9c-abfa96891cben*40googlegroups.com__;JQ!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Oukc1xFB9fX1pIU3fgHSz1CrbM0mORRMyZFgJNb7spscqRUWWfBJgdgBFtrPaitB8zK2ia0$> [groups.google.com [groups.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com__;!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Oukc1xFB9fX1pIU3fgHSz1CrbM0mORRMyZFgJNb7spscqRUWWfBJgdgBFtrPaitBXkPW83g$>]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/716f80a1-06d6-494c-8c9c-abfa96891cben*40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer__;JQ!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Mc2LfGU2LfWUXRLDj9D0AXC55WnvgHne9rRIk0PCkGNvLg7xZTO962am_lhg5P7XQODcVg8$>.

--
--
http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats [groups.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats__;!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Oukc1xFB9fX1pIU3fgHSz1CrbM0mORRMyZFgJNb7spscqRUWWfBJgdgBFtrPaitBwFAv_KM$>

To unsubscribe, send email to Hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com>.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/1b23ec6d-07e1-4ef3-92f5-2b31c1b24c8fn%40googlegroups.com [groups.google.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/1b23ec6d-07e1-4ef3-92f5-2b31c1b24c8fn*40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer__;JQ!!IMeFMrRG1GeY!Oukc1xFB9fX1pIU3fgHSz1CrbM0mORRMyZFgJNb7spscqRUWWfBJgdgBFtrPaitB7OW5JbU$>.

[ivaldes]

At least 11 including me. I know 3 people with first name George that program mumps that makes 14.  Is it a requirement that your first name be George to program mumps? Maybe I should change my first name to George?

Becky, I attend the Chickasha, Ok pre-war swap meet nearly every March to purchase Model T parts of which I have an affliction for. See attached before and after wedding car built out of my wife's Father's former hay wagon. It was a model T chassis and I returned it to being a model T as a wedding gift. It runs on mumps code but I am not going to call it George.

[mikeginsburg (null)]

How many mumps programmers do you think Intersystems, Epic and DSS have?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 20, 2021, at 1:30 PM, George Bennington <georgeben...@gmail.com> wrote:


I am a MUMPS and COS developer with the name ...

Our daughter in Europe says that she is always running into developer types that develop with MUMPS.  I think it is more prevalent in Europe and other countries.

--
--
http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats

To unsubscribe, send email to Hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/e74aa393-3571-4e2a-bcc6-f2f14bd54799n%40googlegroups.com.

[r...@rcresearch.us]

Mike;

I know many who know MUMPS and many who have programmed in MUMPS. When I
worked for Computer Science Corporation there was an opening for a MUMPS
programmer for the Navy at China Lake. I was one of about 13 in the whole
company who knew what MUMPS was and I got that position. I went out there
and started teaching others in the Navy and CSC to program in MUMPS. I ran
about 5 sessions of my classes including a reverse engineering class to
parallel an Ada project running on a Data General Eclipse that would run
for a couple of days and fall over and the Ada was difficult to pick up the
pieces from. Our MUMPS model when it stopped, we could examine the stack
and the symbol table, identify the problem and resume from where we had the
error. I think you will find many more MUMPS programmers in Europe where
there is no negative connotation to the work MUMPS. Also, you need to
expand your search to GTM and some of the older versions of MUMPS, like CSM,
DTM, and MSM. There are other close cousins to MUMPS as well, MIIS,
and Magic.
I also taught MUMPS at SAIC in San Diego and did an engineering study of a
Clothing Boxing and Distribution factory in Daito, Japan that was running DSM
to run the whole facility.

Best wishes; Chris Richardson

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/5E941420-88E2-4B53-8FFA-FDBF2981324B%40aol.com.

[mikeginsburg (null)]

Chris,
Now you’ve reminded me of Jon Diamond from the NHS that would attend MUG meetings. Anyone know if NHS still uses a Mumps based system?
Also remember Soyuz Diams the Russian rip off of DSM11. Lots of great Mumpsters from Russia.

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 20, 2021, at 2:48 PM, r...@rcresearch.us wrote:
>
> Mike;

> ---You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/20211220191554.Horde.71w_vc_hLKX0ahnwIWfBT-l%40webmail.rcresearch.us.

[Wolfgang Giere]

Could you please translate for me "DSS"?

 

Thanks

 

Wolfgang Giere

 

 

 

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [Hardhats] How many mumps programmers in the world?

Datum: 2021-12-20T19:40:34+0100

Von: "'mikeginsburg (null)' via Hardhats" <hard...@googlegroups.com>

An: "hard...@googlegroups.com" <hard...@googlegroups.com>

 

 

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/5E941420-88E2-4B53-8FFA-FDBF2981324B%40aol.com.



[mikeginsburg (null)]

Www.dssinc.com They have developed numerous enhancements to Vista for the VA and have a commercial version of Vista they call Juno EHR.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 20, 2021, at 4:25 PM, Wolfgang Giere <W.G...@t-online.de> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/1640035519029.3940925.f360019351b059ebeece73a29cec5f8382ce1af9%40spica.telekom.de.

[Joseph Dal Molin]

Document Storage Solutions

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/37E628B6-2B1C-42D4-B50E-56A32801CA11%40aol.com.

[Wolfgang Giere]

Thanks!

 

Wolfgang Giere

 

 

 

-----Original-Nachricht-----

Betreff: Re: [Hardhats] How many mumps programmers in the world?

Datum: 2021-12-20T22:33:44+0100

Von: "Joseph Dal Molin" <dalm...@e-cology.ca>

An: "hard...@googlegroups.com" <hard...@googlegroups.com>

 

 

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/a7d55f7c-c0de-4845-78f5-6e9d6d9bfe37%40e-cology.ca.



[Dave G]

Mumps programmer-----

I struggle with calling myself a programmer. I have used Mumps since 1995  at Sunquest, then IHS,  and now EPic/Cache. I can debug code, find and fix errors, but I have a hard time writing from scratch....

that is why I am reluctant to say I am a 'programmer"---but maybe I am?
Dave Gifford

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/1640036134412.3920219.d0a84a1549cf0d529546714204af241646db50e5%40spica.telekom.de.

[ivaldes]

Q How many mumps programmer's does it take to change a lightbulb? 

. A Only one but you have to use the $D(lightbulb) function to see if it exists first. 

[Nancy Anthracite]

:)

 

--

Nancy Anthracite

[M Susaanti Follingstad]

Or you could use the $G(lightbulb)...

--
--
http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats
To unsubscribe, send email to Hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/4d0101d9-ceeb-43a6-ac32-a528a3b6c508n%40googlegroups.com.

[OldMster]

Sigh, it can't be replaced by a programmer - it's a hardware problem.  A ticket must be opened with hardware support.  They will come investigate, and determine the entire building must be rewired before it can be verified the light bulb is the problem.

[K.S. Bhaskar]

If you are a MUMPS programmer, there are either 10 or 11 MUMPS programmers in the world: 10 if you have no one under you, and 11 if you do.

Regards

– Bhaskar

[Mark Dawson]

On linkedin, there are just over 3,000 members of the MUMPS and Cache Development Group. Searching for 'mumps developers', there were about 3,600 results. Not all of those are still working in Mumps.

Here's a related question -- What is the average age of the Mumps programmer? I know of only one younger than myself (~50), though there must be younger developers at Epic and Intersystems (and newer MIIS developers at Meditech). My guess is the average age is around 60.

In the eight years I've done VA/VistA work, there has been only one (maybe two) conference calls which seemed to attempt to include all developers, and the one call I remember was about 200 people. (I used to be shocked at the absence of all-developer communication there is at the VA. No effort at all to provide ongoing training, coaching, reminders of standards -- nothing. The management of VistA development, at a high level, is really a joke. There are pockets where support and development is managed well, and maybe that's the norm, but there seems to be zero coordination at a higher level. I'll be quiet now.)

 

-- Mark

[John P. Willis]

I was first exposed to M by LD Landis at age 17, in August of 1998.

I began doing M programming professionally in April of 2010.

I am 41 now, and M is and shall likely remain my favorite programming language of all time. I believe the true power of M is neither in the language itself nor the database itself, but in the elegant marriage of both.

To be sure, the language sorely needs updates and modernization, and through my work on FreeM, I hope to achieve some of this. The world desperately needs a modern dialect of M to lead us out of the quagmire of overly-complex, labyrinthine, trend-hopping, and rapidly-shifting web frameworks and languages, both within medical IT and without.

/*
 * John P. Willis, CEO
 * Coherent Logic Development LLC
 *  Solutions: Everywhere
 *
 * j...@coherent-logic.com
 * http://www.coherent-logic.com/
 *
 */

--
--
http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats
To unsubscribe, send email to Hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/850039e9-5f1e-4b27-a328-384a88d6534fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Joseph Dal Molin]

I'm quite certain there are several (I don't know how many) who are 40 and under in Jordan's EHS.

--
--
http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats
To unsubscribe, send email to Hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/850039e9-5f1e-4b27-a328-384a88d6534fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Arthur Ingram]

Well growing I have introduced 2 young men and they are learning MUMPS using both VA and Sam’s training material on yottadb.

So that makes 3 

Art

[rrichards]

Over half of the primcary care information systems in the NHS England  (population: 80 million) run on the UK-developed EMIS.

All of the health information systems in the NHS Scotland  (population 6 million) run on the Australian-developed TrakCare.

Nearly 30% of hospitals (Nearly 50% of all hospital beds) in the US are running on an an Epic

In summary:  over 50% of the UK and US population has at least some componenet of their health record managed by MUMPS.

Epic hires over 1500 new staff each year (they hire exclusivelyyoung fresh college grads) and train a good portion how to program Epic in ISO/ANSI MUMPS in three months, and then they become productive Epic developers.  Epic runs on ISO/ANSI MUMPS, not any proprietary mumps transpiled langugae  (Cache Object Script, Magic, ...).  These computer science grads think their career will dead-end if they stay at Epic  doing 'legacy' language programming, so typically leave after two years.   SO Epic is churning out a lot of MUMPS programmers. They just wont admit it to their future employers as they think that will make them unmarketable.  Quite the contrary: There are lot of Epic systems now to maintain in the US.

Rafael

[Raman Sailopal]

I actually worked at EMIS when their market leading primary care system was based on MSM MUMPS. Unfortunately today, they don't use MUMPS at all and have opted for SQL. 

There is none the less a significant proportion of the NHS secondary care sector Laboratory Information Systems, running on MUMPS. After a fair few takeovers involving CSC and IBM the systems (renamed from iLab and iLab TP) are now being run by Dedalus.

--

--
http://groups.google.com/group/Hardhats
To unsubscribe, send email to Hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com

---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Hardhats" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to hardhats+u...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hardhats/d6db08c7-73df-4870-b3e5-9c2d1763cb6bn%40googlegroups.com.