HOW TO - REMOTE ACCESS TO A HARBOUR CONSOLE APPLICATION?

[SD]

Dear Group:

Have found Harbour (3.0) very helpful and powerful comparing to my Clipper know-how. Windows printing, OLE integration, no more memory issues, fast execution makes my earlier Clipper application a better application.under Harbour.

Now thinking if this entire application or at-least a part of it (a separate module can be developed) could be accessed REMOTELY using INTERNET. This can help other branches to have direct real-time access to certain reports, which will suffice the need to email those reports in soft copies or send printed hard copies. If needed ALWAYS CAN DEVELOP A SEPARATE SMALL MODULE FOR THIS PROJECT CALLING  SEPARATE DEPENDENCIES OTHER THEN HARBOUR SUPPLIED BINARIES/LIBS

Server site: - My Pc with the Harbour Application under Windows 7 and Novell Client network and  currently fetches data from a Novell Server (Novell Netware 5)

                 - Connected to a Proxy-internet 

Client site:  Branch offices at remote places/cities

                  Internet facility available at those sites.

Not Looking for Solutions like: TeamViewer which will access my entire pc and server/client user id and password has to be exchanged to establish a connection. Moreover they are slow... 

Perhaps I'm asking too much, but after able to generate MS-EXCEL reports directly from Harbour, can dream such things. May be there are certain ways to accomplish this remote access.and moreover I'm at present looking for only reports generation at client sites.

Would appreciate ideas, ways to accomplish this from the esteemed members here.....

Regards,

Swapan

[Mario H. Sabado]

Hi Swapan,

You can check WinFlector at https://www.winflector.com. There's a free
version for 2 concurrent users.

Regards,
Mario

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[SD]

On Thursday, 15 November 2012 13:30:31 UTC+5:30, mhsabado wrote:

You can check WinFlector at https://www.winflector.com.  There's a free
version for 2 concurrent users.

Thanks Mario for responding to this issue. Yes, I'm aware of the terminal solution "Winflector" as before creating this Post while looking for an answer to my issue, came up with this name. It would be great if anyone out here shares his/her experience who has tested it under similar scenario I'm looking for.

BTW, I started this thread to have more such leads/ideas other then winflector. If Winflector stands out to be the ONLY solution then definitely have to look into it....

I was thinking like OLE integration, if something can be found within Harbour only to tackle this issue!

[john s wolter]

Swapan,

Try the Back To The Future approach.  Make it a console application then you can serve it up from the Cloud.  Compile it as a LINUX console application.  Access it using Putty SSH.   It will be fast enough for a typist doing data entry.  Needs fast Internet services at offices.

The Cloud could be AWS or Rackspace to start for development phases.  Create a server with storage and virtual client servers.  The Harbour application runs on the client servers and accesses the storage servers  Create a virtual network with Firewall.

Internal virtual servers are inexpensive at 0.10 cents USD per hour for a basic unit.  You can hire backup/restore services.  

Your ready to go without spending a pile of money.  Watch costs to see if you can save $$s with dedicated servers.  Don't assume that is true.

Cheers
John S Wolter
------------------------

LinkedIn: johnswolter

- Mailto:johns...@wolterworks.com

- USA, Eastern Standard Time, -5 GMT, -4 GMT DST

[alci_soft]

Try Terminal console from http://www.otc.pl/index.asp?s=85&l=2

[alci_soft]

Try Terminal console from http://www.otc.pl/index.asp?s=85&l=2

----- Original Message -----

From: SD

To: harbou...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 8:28 AM

Subject: [harbour-users] HOW TO - REMOTE ACCESS TO A HARBOUR CONSOLE APPLICATION?

[SD]

Dear John S Wolter:

Thanks a lot for providing this know-how! To be honest, was not aware of Putty SSH. 

My current requirement (rather A FEATURE I'm looking for..) is not anything big. Am just looking for options (if any) to let share my site's data among other remote sites/branches in real-time in report formats.......

Hope your information could be a lead for others also who are looking for a solution in this regard.

Regards,

Swapan

[SD]

Asoft:

Long time ago been to OTC site, that time didn't read much on their product Terminal Console. Thanks for the reminder!

[SD]

Dear Group:

I've MODIFIED, the subject line.

As, the requirement could be solved with SHARING of DATA in real-time.

Application is in Harbour under Windows platform and data files are in DBF formats.

While replying to John S Wolter, was thinking why not think something OUT OF THE BOX (other then terminal solutions) until there's a solution from Harbour itself. Like the concerned dbf files ported to Google Docs and using its scripts generate the reports in spreadsheet formats. The whole procedure may be automated for real-time report viewing from client users! What say?!

I would love to hear from Klas Engwall about his suggestion on this whole issue considering all the options so far discussed/mentioned by fellow group members...(others are equally welcome..)

Regards,

Swapan

[john s wolter]

Swapan,

>> Thanks a lot for providing this know-how! To be honest, was not aware of Putty SSH. 

Yes Putty is good quality and an open source package for Windoze.  I'm using TightVNC for remote Windows desktop access.  Lately I've been hearing about NX something as a viable alternative.  I always insist a software package prove itself.  I have to actually seen it work.  Many times the quicker way to to download and test different packages.

Another nice UNIX/LINUX like tools are Cygwin and GNUwin32.  They both have command-lines to run the well-known UNIX world tools.  Cygwin has a X-Window add-on to run LINUX only cross-compiled libraries and applications.  It works.  GNUwin32 is more Windozes like being as I recall compiled using the M$ tools set.  Cygwin uses more of the GNU gcc tool sets

Last but not least is the mingw a cross environment for windows.  It is more for C language which in your case may not be much help.

My current requirement (rather A FEATURE I'm looking for..) is not anything big. Am just looking for options (if any) to let share my site's data among other remote sites/branches in real-time in report formats.......

You can start with one server with shared Putty-SSH account sign-ons.  The users can then run the reports as needed and download them as Putty has a way to do that.  You will find that once this is working you will want to try other ideas.

You also only need to run the server during the business day hours.  So maybe 10 hours per day would be a couple of dollars or euros for the "instance", LINUX or Windoze.  An in-house server has much more cost with all the support, utilities, and security issues.  Consider just the electricity.

I have some LINUX servers at my apartment and have gotten the idea in my head to move their content to Cloud servers.  That includes virtual desktops.  AWS has Windoze virtual appliances as well.  I can also create special LINUX "instances" dedicated to particular software like engineering and web services development.  When I'm not using them they are not active and I'm not paying for running them.

AWS servers can be started in a few minutes.  It seems like I'm a Fan of AWS but I'm looking at Google's new offering as well as others.  Cloud services are the wave of the present.

 

Hope your information could be a lead for others also who are looking for a solution in this regard.

I'm working towards moving in the short run a Clipper application to LINUX but will run it from a Cloud server and access that using Putty SSH for a single customer's business to start.  They pay for the entire Cloud server instance, backup/recovery service, and support.  I don't even have to bill the server through my business.

The 20th century business model required me or someone to visit the customer's business to support the servers.  Even with remote support I've had to do that.  Here in the 21st century, Cloud servers and applications can be maintained entirely remotely.

Not only can customers access their Cloud server anytime from anywhere they will save money as I have described.  It will also be more reliable.  If it crashes I just restart the instance in seconds.  No computer rebuild is necessary.  I most likely will just have to reindex the tables.  

A MySQL database as a backup store will allow the dbf's to be reconstructed if necessary.  MySQL itself along with the dbf's have a backup done as well.

Once this Cloud version of the application is proven then I can create more private Cloud servers for other similar companies.

The important observation is that you do not have to spend much money while in development.  The customer only pays as they use it to do real money generating work.  No server investments.  You increase your revenues while lowering your capital cost.

From an accounting point of view the customer and yourself do not have to make a capital investment and the monthly costs are a straight expense.  When you buy your own hardware you in most countries can only expense a portion of your capital investment each year.  Here in the US it is 5-7 years.  You and I both know they go obsolete in as few as 3 years.

 

Swapan,

Try the Back To The Future approach.  Make it a console application then you can serve it up from the Cloud.  Compile it as a LINUX console application.  Access it using Putty SSH.   It will be fast enough for a typist doing data entry.  Needs fast Internet services at offices.

The Cloud could be AWS or Rackspace to start for development phases.  Create a server with storage and virtual client servers.  The Harbour application runs on the client servers and accesses the storage servers  Create a virtual network with Firewall.

Internal virtual servers are inexpensive at 0.10 cents USD per hour for a basic unit.  You can hire backup/restore services.  

Your ready to go without spending a pile of money.  Watch costs to see if you can save $$s with dedicated servers.  Don't assume that is true.

 

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:38 AM, SD <swapan...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Klas Engwall]

Hi Swapan,

There have been two widely publicised cloud service crashes in this
country in the last year or two with thousands and thousands of users in
government agencies, communities and private companies twiddling their
thumbs for a week or two while waiting for things to be restored, and
apparently there were tons of data that could not be recovered at all.
So I am a bit sceptical towards cloud services as such.

And besides that, I do not have any clients with branch offices, so the
question of outsourcing anything to simplify joint access has never been
on the table for me. The only remote access I do is VNC for myself and a
few home workers plus ftp uploads/downloads for a couple of web shops.

Sorry I could not be of more help on this topic.

Regards,
Klas

[SD]

Hello John Wolter!

Thanks a lot for such detailed insight into this issue. I came to know many things for the first time!

I too was thinking if we can keep DATA in cloud services like DropBox, GoogleDocs/Google Drive etc., and can access them from anywhere then, then can't we manage an option to keep our harbour (or any other) application(s) and data (if needed) in cloud and run the application remotely from anywhere using internet. 

1ce again thanks for the participation, and hope others too get a few leads from here....

Regards,

Swapan

[PS: Plz. do update in this thread, if anything more you achieve with respect to remote/web access]

[SD]

On Friday, November 16, 2012 6:33:01 AM UTC+5:30, Klas Engwall wrote:

So I am a bit sceptical towards cloud services as such.

Yes, can understand. But I think most of the big banks keep their data on rented servers on remote places. Actually cloud services makes the real-time data availability "Anywhere...Anytime ", yes may be at a premium cost.

And besides that, I do not have any clients with branch offices,.................

Sorry I could not be of more help on this topic.

Its very much Ok. You responded to my plea that's enough! Actually I love the way you address to an issue (I remember those discussions we had on clipper group). May be others could be more knowledgeable but all can't be good "teachers"..........

Regards,

Swapan

 

[Alex Strickland]

On 2012/11/15 01:40 PM, john s wolter wrote:

> Internal virtual servers are inexpensive at 0.10 cents USD per hour for
> a basic unit. You can hire backup/restore services.

Can you elaborate on what you might do for AWS?

--
Regards
Alex

[Lorenzo Fiorini]

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 7:50 PM, john s wolter <johns...@wolterworks.com> wrote:

I'm working towards moving in the short run a Clipper application to LINUX but will run it from a Cloud server and access that using Putty SSH for a single customer's business to start.  They pay for the entire Cloud server instance, backup/recovery service, and support.  I don't even have to bill the server through my business.

The 20th century business model required me or someone to visit the customer's business to support the servers.  Even with remote support I've had to do that.  Here in the 21st century, Cloud servers and applications can be maintained entirely remotely.

Swapan,

I'm running Harbour apps on Linux servers and using Putty as "Windows Client" since years. It's not that hard.

Note that Google Chrome has a "Secure Shell" app that can be replace putty,

You need only the Chrome browser to access your apps from every Linux, Mac or Windows box.

And if you create some sort of web interface for your data, your clients will have the "good old interface" for the data entry in one tab and the new fancy web interface for the Reports, Charts, Sale Force etc in another tab of the same Google Chrome instance.

best regards,

Lorenzo Fiorini

P.S. I think the only possible future for Harbour is the server side ( and probably only the Linux one ).

The now popular "only from our App Store" wave on the client side will be hard to ride for many OpenSouce tools.

[Swapan Das]

Dear Lorenzo Fiorini:

I'm running Harbour apps on Linux servers and using Putty as "Windows Client" since years. It's not that hard.

Since I've zero know-how on this web technology, I wonder if I've interpreted your reply correctly:

You mean the Harbour Apps uploaded on cloud (under Linux servers) and the end-users are RUNNING them from remote places using INTERNET  under PUTTY SSH??!! Can this be achieved under windows environment at server and client level? If this is what I understood then you've done a great job in making your apps web-enabled in this way at-least!

Thanks a lot for sharing your valuable info. in this regard, hope this will be helpful for many who are stuck with this issue.

 

Thanks & Regards,

Swapan Das

http://placentrex.blogspot.com/

Join me @ Google+

[Lorenzo Fiorini]

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Swapan Das <swapan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Lorenzo Fiorini:

I'm running Harbour apps on Linux servers and using Putty as "Windows Client" since years. It's not that hard.

Since I've zero know-how on this web technology, I wonder if I've interpreted your reply correctly:

You mean the Harbour Apps uploaded on cloud (under Linux servers) and the end-users are RUNNING them from remote places using INTERNET  under PUTTY SSH??!! Can this be achieved under windows environment at server and client level? If this is what I understood then you've done a great job in making your apps web-enabled in this way at-least!

Sorry I was not clear enough.

Let's suppose we are in this scenario: You have a working multiuser Harbour app ( likely ported from Clipper/DOS ) and you want to make it accessible to users around the country/world.

You have essentially two option: client/server or remote access.

1. Client/Server: part of the app runs on the client while data remains on the server

2. Remote access: the app runs "entirely" on the server and the user access to a session of the server to use the app

The case 1 usually require a major rewrite of the app since you need to separate client/UI code from backend/data code.

There is a "fast path" using contrib/hbnetio: the app runs on the client but DBFs remains on the server.

This also require some cleanup but surely less radical than a "full" case 2.

The case 2 is much simpler on the code side ( the app is already multiuser ) but the real plus here is that since the app and the data are on the same server, there aren't problems if the connection fails ( at least on *nix ).

Now you need only to decide which platform to use as server ( host ).

1. Windows

2. *nix ( Linux, Unix, BSD or OSX )

The option 1 simply requires the right Windows Server version and licenses and the Remote Desktop Connection on the client side.

The bottleneck in this case is the connection speed. Remote Desktop require an high connection speed since it has to exchange the entire GUI of the session.

The speed you need depends on the the numbers of the concurrent users and the performance you need.

In the case 2 you have 2 possibilities:

- you can use a similar approach like case 1 ( usually with VNC or similar ) but you have the same connection requirements

- or a less heavy approach like SSH/terminal emulation

SSH is the protocol to connect and the terminal emulation is the program that "renders" your UI on the client.

Since what's exchanged between the client and the server are only the keystrokes and the characters of the RowXCol screen there is much less data involved and so it works well also on slow connections.

There are many options for SSH/Terminal under Windows. I use Putty or Chrome/SecureShell.

Putty has more options but it's not easy to install and configure by normal users.

Chrome/SecureShell is still a little bit "raw" ( it's still Beta 0.8.7 ) but every Chrome user can easily setup it.

Also Chrome/SecureShell can easily use the Linux's private/public keys while Putty has its own format for private/public keys.

I hope this could be useful also to the others interested in the topic.

best regards,

Lorenzo Fiorini

 

 

[Klas Engwall]

Hi Swapan,

> Yes, can understand. But I think most of the big banks keep their data
> on rented servers on remote places. Actually cloud services makes the
> real-time data availability "Anywhere...Anytime ", yes may be at a
> premium cost.

Yes, they are of course very convenient, but I think there is a big
difference between what, say, Dropbox, does and what the banks are doing
in their underground bomb shelters. The banks cannot afford the tiniest
glitch in the service, so they make sure they have several layers of
belts and suspenders in place. With general cloud services, especially
the cheap ones, you do not really know what kind of security is in
place, if backups are reliable, what happens when the power goes down or
there is a hurricane, or if they run out of money, etc. etc. Most of the
time you do not even know in which country the servers are located.

One of the data centers I was referring to yesterday is a high-profile
pin-stripe-suit corporation with decades in the business. Even that did
not help when accident hit them last year.

Regards,
Klas

[marek.h...@interia.pl]

"Swapan Das" <swapan...@gmail.com> pisze:

Dear Lorenzo Fiorini:

I'm running Harbour apps on Linux servers and using Putty as "Windows Client" since years. It's not that hard.

Since I've zero know-how on this web technology, I wonder if I've interpreted your reply correctly:

From the harbor, you can work the same way as with PHP, putting a web server (such as Apache, etc).

Regards,
Marek Horodyski

[john s wolter]

 Lorenzo,

I agree that Harbour has a great future on Cloud servers & servers in general.  Not only legacy programs but it opens the door for new programs.

Note that Google Chrome has a "Secure Shell" app that can be replace putty,

You need only the Chrome browser to access your apps from every Linux, Mac or Windows box.

And if you create some sort of web interface for your data, your clients will have the "good old interface" for the data entry in one tab and the new fancy web interface for the Reports, Charts, Sale Force etc in another tab of the same Google Chrome instance.

It appears many things are converging into the browser so it can access many new types of applications.  I'm going to test SSH from the browser immediately.

 

P.S. I think the only possible future for Harbour is the server side ( and probably only the Linux one ).

The now popular "only from our App Store" wave on the client side will be hard to ride for many OpenSouce tools.

Google was forced to move distribution of Apps because of credibility issues.  It is still possible to load apps but it is for the more technical.   If the SSH app works then it can be used for the short run, 1 year, then pressure Google for other types of solution distributions.  

Maybe an external certification service is needed to protect consumers.  This would certify and scan a distribution providing an independent MD5 for example to check the download.  Some cost would be there but the assurance would be returned with customer confidence.  Harbour has both MD5 & SHA1 available on sourceforge.  The service could be like a vending machine where the consumer pay the added cost.

Cheers
John S Wolter
------------------------

LinkedIn: johnswolter

- Mailto:johns...@wolterworks.com

- Desk: 734-408-1263

[john s wolter]

It's good to raise the Cloud reliability issues.  Let's handle that and "Put Our Heads In The Clouds".  Here are some links to news articles about individual events but they are not surveys.  Remember news is about selling advertising.  I found one survey by Ernst & Young.  It's a study but they are a consulting firm for large business and yes banks.  They survey issues at the larger scale.  You have to re-scale them to one or two online servers for Harbour applications.  Read the OpenStack.org items below...

News articles

Business Insider about Amazon failure

http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-outage-enters-its-second-day-lots-of-sites-still-down-2011-4

Forbes magazine

http://www.forbes.com/sites/reuvencohen/2012/07/02/cloud-computing-forecast-cloudy-with-a-chance-of-fail/

Forbes again...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/07/01/survey-of-effects-of-cloud-outage-shows-how-much-of-the-web-runs-on-amazon/

Lifehacker about online storage...

http://lifehacker.com/5961195/the-biggest-problems-with-each-cloud-storage-service-and-how-to-fix-them

NBC News article

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/amazons-cloud-crash-destroyed-many-customers-data-123632

Study by Ernst & Young consulting & financial accounting...

http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAssets/Cloud_computing_issues,_impacts_and_insights/$File/Cloud%20computing%20issues%20and%20impacts_14Apr11.pdf

Clouds and supporting information....

Google Compute Engine...still early in the game but a good offering...

http://cloud.google.com/pricing/compute-engine

Google Compute Developers site....

https://developers.google.com/compute/

Here's a Google code project for cross Cloud service administration with interesting links....

http://code.google.com/p/koalacloud/

Amazon AWS..there is a catalog of pre-configured UNIX/LINUX distros & Windows server "Appliances" instances

http://aws.amazon.com/

Rackspace Open Cloud...

http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/

Rackspace Open Cloud pricing...

http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/public/servers/pricing/

OpenStack...you need to learn about this...

http://www.openstack.org/

http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/openstack/

See Below this section...

----------

I'm not so concerned about their fashion as I'm about the Service Level that can be offered to customers.  Added data backup appears easy and competitive.  Operational backup is another issue.  Note the actual down-times have been short compared to run-times.

Operational redundancy is first handled by using a reliable services. Second a standby "hot spare" can be handled on the cheap by using an idle instance on different service.  I can imagine creating a hot spare using Googles Compute lookalike or Rackspace's OpenCloud service if that is required.  The customer needs to decide if their situation justifies this added service purchase.

Amazon for its part is now working to segment its data centers into "Availability Clusters".  Competitors are doing similar things.  These are separated and stand alone areas in a given data center where you can place a separated "hot spare"  Hot spares do require data replication which implies copying of an in-use data tables.   Hot spares are a value added service which a customer must purchase.

As time move on the Cloud services will solve these problems if they have not already put in place measures to reduce this issue.

Clearly this just starts the discussion of Harbour on the Clouds.  It is a good start.

Cheers
John S Wolter
------------------------

LinkedIn: johnswolter

[SD]

Dear Lorenzo Fiorini:

Let's suppose we are in this scenario: You have a working multiuser Harbour app ( likely ported from Clipper/DOS ) and you want to make it accessible to users around the country/world.

You have essentially two option: client/server or remote access.

1. Client/Server: part of the app runs on the client while data remains on the server

2. Remote access: the app runs "entirely" on the server and the user access to a session of the server to use the app

Lorenzo Fiorini

Yes, you have hit the bull's eye! 

Saying "Thanks" will be a very little way to reciprocate for your this wonderful post. It did enlightened me on this subject. I could have goggled for days but still couldn't have achieved what your post did. And am sure its not me only, for many the perception about this subject has become a bit clearer now.      

1ce again thanks a lot for this wonderful post........Harbour users Group Rocks!

Regards,

Swapan

[SD]

On Saturday, November 17, 2012 12:02:41 AM UTC+5:30, homar wrote:
From the harbor, you can work the same way as with PHP, putting a web server (such as Apache, etc).

Regards,
Marek Horodyski

 Thanks a lot Marek Horodyski for your valuable input. Hope you've went through this kind of setup........ 

[SD]

On Friday, November 16, 2012 11:55:14 AM UTC+5:30, Alex Strickland wrote:
Can you elaborate on what you might do for AWS?

@Alex: In case you've missed the following note supplied by John S Wolter:

[marek.h...@interia.pl]

"SD" <swapan...@gmail.com> pisze:

Yes. It's not easy, but the transition to PHP is too not easy. You should also (in both cases) get to know html and JavaScript. But after going to this, on the server side, you can still use the familiar dialect. Examples are in folders cotrib and ekstras. I do not undertake to describe this in English (google translate :) ), but considering the source it can be mastered.

Regards,
Marek Horodyski

[Clippero]

[Eng Google]

I have carefully read the whole thread
Many of the things he had to say were explained in the previous post.

What I can offer is my experience since I have systems running Harbour remote users (at least in another city)

In my case the server where the. Dbf is Win2003 Server
The application Harbour (migrated from Clipper 5.02d) is on that server and console mode obviously.
There are users on the local network working in the same place where the server (approx. 20 terminals)
And there are users working remotely connected by VPN + Remote Desktop to the server (running the same application that users of the local network)
The ADSL is in the place where the server has a fixed IP, and a symmetrical bandwidth of 2 mb
The ADSL where the remote terminal is also a symmetric 2 mb fixed IP.

The good thing about this work is that both users of the local network and the remote network are jobs that enter the system in real time.
Remote users can print to their local printers.
Lowering the quality of the graphics in the Remote Desktop connection is achieved very good performance as it travels over the Internet are screenshots and keystrokes.
In short with this method are as remote terminals over a terminal within the local network, using the same system, accessing the same data and uncomplicated.

Needless to say, there are other alternatives and solutions such as client / server but need to touch the code which is already developed.
With respect to other solutions such as web theme or work with data in the cloud I have no experience.

And unfortunately I have no linux client yet but I guess when you have them could reach a solution similar to the one I have now, using tools like Puty

Regarding the use of DBF's true that there are engines database much more optimal for handling large amounts of data and with much more security than DBF's but again the same as before, you have to touch the code and change the mentality development and this takes time and money.

I hope my comments are helpful.

[Esp]

He leido cuidadosamente todo el hilo
Muchas de las cosas que tenía para decir la fueron explicadas en post anteriores.

Lo que puedo aportar es mi experiencia ya que yo tengo sistemas Harbour funcionando con usuarios remotos (al menos en otra ciudad)

En mi caso el servidor donde están las .dbf es Win2003 Server
La aplicación Harbour (migrada desde Clipper 5.02d) está en dicho servidor y obviamente es modo consola.
Hay usuarios trabajando en la red local en el mismo sitio donde está el servidor (aprox. 20 terminales)
Y hay usuarios trabajando remotamente conectados por VPN+Escritorio Remoto al servidor (corriendo la misma aplicación que los usuarios de la red local)
El ADSL que hay en el lugar donde está el servidor tiene IP fija, y un ancho de banda simétrico de 2 mb
El ADSL donde están las terminales remotas es también un simetrico de 2 mb con IP fija.

Lo bueno de este trabajo es que tanto los usuarios de la red local como los de la red remota ven los trabajos que se ingresan al sistema en tiempo real.
Los usuarios remotos pueden imprimir en sus impresoras locales.
Bajando la calidad de los gráficos en la conexión por Escritorio Remoto se logra una perfomance muy buena ya que lo que viaja por internet son pantallazos y teclazos.
En resumen con ese método las terminales remotas son como una terminal mas dentro de la red local, usando el mismo sistema, accediendo a los mismos datos y sin complicaciones.

Demás está decir que hay otras alternativas y soluciones como por ejemplo la estructura cliente/servidor pero requieren tocar el código de lo que ya hay desarrollado.
Con respecto a otras soluciones como por ejemplo el tema web o trabajar con datos en la nube no tengo experiencia.

Y lamentablemente no tengo aún clientes linux pero supongo que cuando los tenga podría llegar a una solución parecida a la que tengo actualmente, usando herramientas como Puty

Con respecto al uso de DBF's es cierto que hay motores de base de datos mucho mas optimos para manejo de grandes cantidades de datos y con mucha mas seguridad que las DBF's pero vuelvo a lo mismo de antes, hay que tocar el código y cambiar la mentalidad de desarrollo y esto lleva tiempo y dinero.

Espero mis comentarios sean de utilidad.

Fermín

[SD]

Dear Fermin:

Thanks a lot for sharing your real-life experience in this regard.

Your requirement of harbour application running over a network and handling LOCAL+REMOTE ACCESS simultaneously is a very much real-life situation now-a-days.

This thread started with my one small query but attracted many valuable ideas and the things our fellow group members are doing to cater to this issue - yes on a large scale. I'm and hope many like me are now more enriched then before about this subject/topic.

Fermin, since you are able to establish this setup with a very limited resources and no drastic changes to existing setup (source code & hardware) would request you to please go through the 1st post written by me in this thread - my requirement which is a small one at-least for now. 

My basic initial requirement was/is:

I just want to share a specific harbour compiled module (data-dbfs are from my branch's novell server, harbour app will be supplied & updated by my branch ) and demonstrate how it could be accessed/shared with at-least one person from the top management sitting at a different remote location - he/she can use office pc/laptop (while travelling). The companies who are running on ERP solutions, I assume must be having VPN, but in my case there's NO VPN right now. And for this demonstration VPN service can't be purchased. And yes like you I too don't have scope of linux in current scenario. You are saying REMOTE DESKTOP, but that calls for engaging the whole pc virtually to the other person at the remote site. I'm looking for a solution like what happens in our LAN with multi-user application (formerly clipper now harbour) - just taking help of internet and free/open source tools in this regard. I just thought a bit more exporting dbfs to clouds (google docs/zoho reports) and then create fresh reports in those cloud services - but don't want to make things unnecessary complicated and do "repeat" programming (re-writing). You may share your opinion in this regard....

Regards,

Swapan

 

[Eng Google]

On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:11:56 PM UTC+5:30, Clippero wrote: 

I have carefully read the whole thread
Many of the things he had to say were explained in the previous post.

What I can offer is my experience since I have systems running Harbour remote users (at least in another city)

In my case the server where the. Dbf is Win2003 Server
The application Harbour (migrated from Clipper 5.02d) is on that server and console mode obviously.
There are users on the local network working in the same place where the server (approx. 20 terminals)
And there are users working remotely connected by VPN + Remote Desktop to the server (running the same application that users of the local network)
The ADSL is in the place where the server has a fixed IP, and a symmetrical bandwidth of 2 mb
The ADSL where the remote terminal is also a symmetric 2 mb fixed IP.

Fermín

[SD]

On exploring further possibilities......

Does using VPN (Virtual Private Network) can solve this issue of sharing a harbour console application (or any) over internet? 

Actually Fermin mentioned that he is using VPN, and on a quick check about VPN on Google, I understand that by using VPN we can share data/apps through internet like the way we do locally between computers on a LAN. We would need VPN Server and VPN Clients for it. Has anyone gone through such using free/open source VPN services for a solution I'm looking for my issue? What about open source program like OpenVPN? Does it has VPN Server and VPN Client both?

Regards,

Swapan

[Eng Google]
On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:11:56 PM UTC+5:30, Clippero wrote: 

And there are users working remotely connected by VPN + Remote Desktop to the server (running the same application that users of the local network)

Fermín

[john s wolter]

SD,

VPNs add secure remote/external connections.  Trusted internal LAN connections could run without secured connections.

For more open source choices go to sourceforge.net and enter VPN as a search.  There are both LINUX/UNIX & Windows choices.  OpenVPN is one choice that does work.  There are as you can see in the search different clients and managers available.

A second way to secure connections is to use port forwarding with SSH.  This is a manual way to setup a secure connection.

A third way is a tunnel.  Again search sourceforge.net.

NOTE: Adding connection encryption will always run slower.  You must test to see if it is fast enough.

Question: Is your Novell server the old...really old Novell server or is it Novell SUSE LINUX.?  If it is SUSE then you have options to upgrade to OpenSUSE.  Upgrades however do require some experience as it is not automatic.

Cheers
John S Wolter
------------------------

LinkedIn: johnswolter

- Mailto:johns...@wolterworks.com

- Desk: 734-408-1263

- USA, Eastern Standard Time, -5 GMT, -4 GMT DST

--

[Giuseppe Paternò]

Hi all!

<vendor>
You can also harden your Linux or Windows server using our SecurePass service, so that the user must use strong authentication to access the server via standard SSH or RDP.
 
Windows -> http://support.secure-pass.net/wiki/index.php/Help:ConfigureWindows
CentOS/RedHat -> http://www.gvarisco.com/2011/12/15/create-a-secure-dmz-linux-host-with-centos-and-securepass/
Ubuntu/Debian -> http://www.nolabs.it/2011/12/02/eng-how-to-setup-an-easy-otp-access-on-ubuntu-with-secure-pass/

Open a free account here: http://www.secure-pass.net/open
</vendor>

Hope it helps!
Cheers,
    Giuseppe

[SD]

On Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:45:46 PM UTC+5:30, johnswolter wrote:

Question: Is your Novell server the old...really old Novell server or is it Novell SUSE LINUX.?  If it is SUSE then you have options to upgrade to OpenSUSE.  Upgrades however do require some experience as it is not automatic.

Yes the Novell Server I'm using is quite old one. The Server ver.: Netware 5.00 (year 1998)

The clients with Windows 7 system uses the Novell Client for Windows 7.

--Swapan

 

[Clippero]

[Esp]

SD

Mi experiencia es muy sencilla y concreta.

Un sistema ahora Harbour, migrado de Clipper en modo consola, que usa DBF/NTX ubicado en una carpeta del servidor que permite el acceso remoto (lo de la VPN es un plus que agrega seguridad) a cualquier usuario, ya sea en la red local o remotamente.

Nada mas y nada menos.

Para otros ambientes como es tu caso, habría que ver como se puede hacer para que el servidor con NOVELL no complique lo que querés hacer.

Se me ocurre que poner un equipo con Win2003 Server en tu red pueda a travéz de Terminal Server brindar el servicio de acceso remoto a los usuarios de afuera.

Desde mi punto de vista es la mejor solución dado el software que ya hay, sin tocar código y permitiendo abrir el acceso a usuarios fuera de la red local.

También es la solución mas económica.

Si se quiere agregar algo de seguridad se puede usar algún tipo de VPN, que bien puede ser la que los servidores Windows traen de fábrica.

Un tema que puede complicar son las IP dinámicas que cambian y complican el acceso desde afuera (usuarios que no conocen la IP pública en todo momento) para eso yo uso NO-IP que te genera direcciones como empresa.zapto.org que apuntan siempre a la IP pública

Cualquier duda estoy a las ordenes.

[SD]

Dear Fermin/Clippero:

Thanks a lot for your reply and re-confirming that it can be achieved the way you've described.

para eso yo uso NO-IP que te genera direcciones como empresa.zapto.org que apuntan siempre a la IP pública

This url is not working.... 

Cualquier duda estoy a las ordenes.

I've sent you one private mail regarding this. I didn't wanted this thread to become unnecessary lengthy with repetitive discussion. If anything concrete comes out from our discussion, then can post here for the benefits of the interested members.

Hope you will attend my mail.

Regards,

Swapan  

[john s wolter]

SD,

You should stick with the Novell 5.0.x for the time being.

The firewall could be IPCop(simple) or pfsense which has features you might put to work.  It is BSD UNIX based & supports many technical uses.

At a later time you can change OS to LINUXOpenSUSE.  I have done this by installing another disk where I installed the Open SUSE and configured it in my spare time.  I also found a way to share the disk to allow data to transfers between drives.  

Cheers
John S Wolter
------------------------

LinkedIn: johnswolter

- Mailto:johns...@wolterworks.com

- Desk: 734-408-1263

- USA, Eastern Standard Time, -5 GMT, -4 GMT DST

p

[SD]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:54:07 AM UTC+5:30, johnswolter wrote:

SD,

You should stick with the Novell 5.0.x for the time being.

The firewall could be IPCop(simple) or pfsense which has features you might put to work.  It is BSD UNIX based & supports many technical uses.

At a later time you can change OS to LINUXOpenSUSE.  I have done this by installing another disk where I installed the Open SUSE and configured it in my spare time.  I also found a way to share the disk to allow data to transfers between drives.  

Ok...thanks. Noted! 

[Reinaldo]

Hi.

I do this all the time with my current harbour apps.  Simply have a server (linux or windows) running ADS server version.  Connect from anywhere.  Or have that server replicate to another server.  ADS does real-time replication.  You may have n-tier replication.  It is transparent and it works great.

Again (1) connect from your harbour apps via internet to the ads server, (2) have two- or more- ads servers replicating data to each other.

It works, and you don't have to implement a lot of technology other than what you already know and use.

Reinaldo.

On Thursday, November 15, 2012 12:56:11 PM UTC-5, SD wrote:

Dear Group:

I've MODIFIED, the subject line.

As, the requirement could be solved with SHARING of DATA in real-time.

Application is in Harbour under Windows platform and data files are in DBF formats.

While replying to John S Wolter, was thinking why not think something OUT OF THE BOX (other then terminal solutions) until there's a solution from Harbour itself. Like the concerned dbf files ported to Google Docs and using its scripts generate the reports in spreadsheet formats. The whole procedure may be automated for real-time report viewing from client users! What say?!

I would love to hear from Klas Engwall about his suggestion on this whole issue considering all the options so far discussed/mentioned by fellow group members...(others are equally welcome..)

Regards,

Swapan

[john s wolter]

SD,

If you have some interest in learning LINUX there are several distros that are LiveCDs as CD/DVD iso's.  I believe OpenSUSE.org's DVD download is a LiveCD.  There are others for Debian, Ubuntu, maybe CentOS, Knoppix, and more.

Just put an iso in the CD/DVD drive of a desktop or laptop, boot, and it runs without using the existing harddrive.  You casn setup Samba file sharing, test SSH and RDP connections, and see how the printing works. 

Command-line mount program can attach the Windows partitions, usually under /mnt/windows directory, and browse that with a LINUX desktop.  Most common is KDE but Gnome is catching on lately.

ls -l is like dir
cd is like cd
mkdir is like md
rm is like delete
logout is logout
Some distros alias or translate simple MS-DOS commands

Cheers
John S Wolter
------------------------

LinkedIn: johnswolter

- Mailto:johns...@wolterworks.com

- Desk: 734-408-1263

- USA, Eastern Standard Time, -5 GMT, -4 GMT DST

[SD]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:34:16 PM UTC+5:30, Reinaldo wrote:

I do this all the time with my current harbour apps.  Simply have a server (linux or windows) running ADS server version.  Connect from anywhere.  Or have that server replicate to another server.  ADS does real-time replication.  You may have n-tier replication.  It is transparent and it works great.

Again (1) connect from your harbour apps via internet to the ads server, (2) have two- or more- ads servers replicating data to each other.

Thanks Reinaldo for this info. about ADS. BTW, you mean Advantage Database Server - right? Then its a commercial product, but still its good to know that it can support the "from anywhere" feature. And I assume dbfs can be used here....anyway this thread is not meant to discuss ADS in detail here...but thanks for the pointer.

[SD]

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:30:18 PM UTC+5:30, johnswolter wrote:

SD,

If you have some interest in learning LINUX 

Sorry, right now no way to think about it! Daily work pressure allows even very little time to experiment with harbour under windows!

Please let us remain stick to the subject of this thread only, as the content of this thread may matter to many...btw, appreciate you for the concern.. 

[Richard Acosta]

You can make a module/separete program to check those reports, while the remote computer in wich it'll be running may be connected to the host's network using a VPN

This would be as i can see, the easiest way to achieve what you want.

You can also put/install the application on the remote computer, connect that computer via VPN no the server's network, then the program could access the files and or databases on the server as if it were local.

And off course, you could make an application that instead of calling a local server or a local shared folder, could call a remote server by it's IP or dyndns name.

[Swapan Das]

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Richard Acosta <gyo...@gmail.com> wrote:

And off course, you could make an application that instead of calling a local server or a local shared folder, could call a remote server by it's IP or dyndns name.

Dear Richard: 

Just wondering, there's so much to learn! Looks Harbour 3.0 is enough for me for another couple of years!!

On serious note, thanks a lot for sharing your valuable feedback with respect to this thread.

[Itamar M. Lins Jr. Lins]

Hi!

Best option  "console mode" for me is LINUX + SSH + Harbour. IMBATIBLE!

NOVELL return of medieval age!

 

Best regards,

Itamar M. Lins Jr.

2012/11/20 Richard Acosta <gyo...@gmail.com>