Schulmerich's New Parts Policy

[Nicholas Barnard]

Hello Fellow Musicians,

I'm not sure if you've ran across it but Schulmerich has changed their Spare Parts Policy:
http://www.schulmerichbells.com/products_hb_partlist.php

A few portions of that letter:

"In the short time I've owned the company, far too many handbells have arrived at our factory after being damaged by subpar third party workmanship. We have seen foreign parts not designed for our bells used to "improve" our products. We have seen castings that have been compromised beyond our tuning tolerances due to improper polishing. … Many of you have expressed a desire for more clarity around who can service Schulmerich™ instruments in a manner that preserves your instrument's integrity. It is for this reason that we are establishing a limited number of factory-authorized refurbishing facilities world-wide whose work will be performed under factory supervision. … We will no longer sell to any unauthorized repairer or refurbisher parts sufficient to undertake a complete refurbishment of our instruments, nor will we offer for retail sale full octaves of yoke assemblies, handles or other parts which our experience tells us require specialized training to repair or replace."

As much as this is a big change I really welcome this. I don't have the experience on Schulmerichs, but I know when I was working on my church's Malmarks I was a bit annoyed to discover the problem we had been having with the handle screws loosening and not holding the handle block properly wasn't due to any manufacturing fault, but somewhere along the line the handle screws had been replaced with the ones for the wrong bell, specifically the next size smaller.

I know this'll is especially a change for the Schulmerich representatives out there who also undertook refurbishings, but now are no longer allowed to…

Discuss.

Nick Barnard
Seattle, WA

[Daniel Reck]

Hi all,

I understand what Mr. Goldstein is getting at in the statement with his concern about Schlumerich bells being damaged by third party repairs, but this policy also effectively prevents users (even capable ones who carefully read the manual) from servicing their own instruments. It also shuts down or severely depress the prices in the used bell market.  Buying used bells--which aren't covered by any warranty--and not being able to service them yourself is a problem. There is no way that Schulmerich is going to provide factory service for small repairs as economically as the owner. And regardless of whether you're the original owner or not, what if you want to replace your 1980s handles and discs with modern ones? It's crazy to expect us to ship five octaves of bells to do that!

Concrete example: Right now, I need to replace a single broken handle disc. I can't order one (or at least, they're not online anymore). Is it REALLY worth Schulmerich's time OR my money for me to ship one of the 3s to them to have them replace a disc? Why can't I buy the disc? Why am I being punished for the foolishness of others?

This is like Toyota expecting me to ship my car back to Japan to replace a streaking windshield wiper with a new "factory authorized wiper." The only difference is that third party parts are readily available for Toyota wipers, so I don't have to send it to the factory in order to service the part. Yet apparently third party parts are EXACTLY what Schlumerich claims is at issue, and yet this policy basically encourages those of us on a budget (everyone) to seek less expensive and more convenient alternatives to factory parts and servicing.  It also encourages someone to figure out how to manufacture and market aftermarket parts. There might now be enough margin to make that a profitable enterprise once you factor the extra shipping and labor fees at Schulmerich.

I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT when companies treat their customers like they are incapable human beings. If someone breaks their bells, then that is their problem, and they lose their warranty. But it's their problem. And if then they want Schulmerich to fix it, they can pay Schulmerich to fix it. Either way, what does Schulmerich care? Schlumerich GETS PAID.

Up until now I've proudly noted that I play Schlumerich bells in my concert programs because I believed in the company and the product, but now they're just another product made by another company. And maybe I don't need to give them such an endorsement.

Perhaps I've misunderstood Mr. Goldstein's message. If so, I apologize and ask for clarification. Otherwise, I hope Schulmerich will refine their policy to be less punitive to its loyal customers--who actually spend the premium to buy original factory parts when fixing their own instruments--and that will restore my respect. Time will tell. 

Ring on! (But only if you can find the parts...)

Daniel

--

  Daniel M. Reck

  Director, Shadows of Bronze

  http://shadowsofbronze.org

[Nicholas Barnard]

Daniel,

I do understand where you're coming from, and at the moment I think the biggest thing hurting Schulmerich is the lack of clarity around the policy.

I had to replace the peeling handles for the bells owned by the church that I will no longer name (long story that I will not go into in public), they asked me to take photos and email them in before they would replace them, which was completely different from the handles we had to replace the year before. (Different handles, same problem.)

There is however a balance to be struck here. If I want warranty service on my computer I have to use a vendor that is approved by the computer manufacturer. Sure I can find parts outside of warranty, but if I do my own service I'm likely going to void the warranty…

I think the biggest thing is the number of people doing unauthorized refurbishments. It seems the biggest issue is people who haven't been trained properly refurbishing bells for money. I was a bit annoyed to find out that one of the people associated with the company who offered refurbishments was never authorized to perform them. Perhaps its a matter of properly branding authorized Schulmerich refurbishers?

Perhaps another part of the problem is that bells are sold with lifetime manufacturers warranties? I don't know of any other instruments that come with that.. (Although, I'm nowhere near as versed in the subject as I'd guess many of the folks on this list are.)

Nick
Seattle, WA

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>
>

[Thomas Simpson]

Malmark sells Shulmeric clapper conversation kits starting $20 folks!!




Thomas

Sent from my iPhone

[Nicholas Barnard]

Thomas,

First, shame on you for making this about Schulmerich vs. Malmark. That is what I expect from a 13 year old, not someone who is past the age of 25.

Second, that is a sure fire way to void your warranty with Schulmerich.

Nick

[Michele Sharik]

Handles???

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos or AutoCorrect weirdness

On Jan 18, 2013, at 12:23 PM, Nicholas Barnard <ni...@inmff.net> wrote:

[Mickey Johnson]

"nor will we offer for retail sale full octaves of yoke assemblies, handles or other parts" - the main word here is FULL. Customers can still order limited parts with a simple email or phone call - but not via the web-site.If it's a warranty issue, a photo may be needed where as in the past you had to mail in the broken warranty part.

[Teri & Tim Gregory]

You can still get repair kits for the bells so owners can replace springs and other limited life items without requiring a shipment to Schulmerich.   http://www.schulmerichbells.com/category.php?cat_id=111

 

Speaking of handles, the thing that irritates me with Schulmerich is that they have done away with black handles for the natural bells.  Previously, you had a choice between all black or gold braid handles.  Since I dislike the look of the gold braid, I bought my 3 ½ octaves with all black handles. 

 

Now, in their infinite wisdom, Schulmerich has decided to remove the option for black handles so when I have to replace a handle in my set, I will end up with an obnoxious looking gold braid in the middle of all of my black handles.  It will stand out like a sore thumb and will look so stupid.  I asked if I could order black replacement handles and was told no since they will no longer be manufactured.

 

Customer service does not seem to be a Schulmerich strong suit at the moment.

 

Teri

[TimR]

I have only repaired Schulmerich.  I've never had any of the other brands apart, though I've looked at the diagrams on the manufacturer's pages.

I'm not sure i see the problem with unauthorized repairs.  This isn't rocket science.  It's just take off the bad part, put in the new one.  With reasonable care, what goes wrong?  Bells are simple compared to any other user repairable product.  They're about on the same level as replacing a toilet flush valve, or maybe windshield wiper blades.  Work slow, check your work, use the right parts, follow directions.  Now try aligning a trombone slide, resoldering a trumpet brace, getting the neck rod right on a guitar, repadding a clarinet, etc.  

Now, I can understand some klutz dropping a screw or ball bearing and replacing it with the nearest fit from the bottom of the tool box.  But doesn't that problem get worse if Schulmerich isn't selling parts?  

Am I way off here?  

[Daniel Reck]

Hi all,

On Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:59:22 AM UTC-6, Mickey Johnson wrote:

Customers can still order limited parts with a simple email or phone call - but not via the web-site.If it's a warranty issue, a photo may be needed where as in the past you had to mail in the broken warranty part.

If that's is true, then Schulmerich should say so. Right now, for those of us who've gotten used to shopping online over the last 20 years, it simply appears that Schlumerich does not offer the parts in question. Period. Because there's nothing to the contrary on their website.

On Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:19:28 AM UTC-6, Nicholas Barnard wrote:

I think the biggest thing hurting Schulmerich is the lack of clarity around the policy. 

Yes, Nick. Unfortunately, in their attempt to clarify the policy, they dumped a bucket of mud in their customers' eyes. 

 

On Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:19:28 AM UTC-6, Nicholas Barnard wrote:

It seems the biggest issue is people who haven't been trained properly refurbishing bells for money.

Actually, I think the biggest issue is handbell owners not knowing who is authorized to service their bells under the warranty and who is not. If a handbell owner makes an informed decision to go with an unauthorized servicer, that's his problem. (This is why I have only Canon-authorized repair centers repair my Canon bodies and lenses even though there are a gazillion camera repair shops. And they make it easy to do: All the information is readily available on the Canon website.)

On Saturday, January 19, 2013 12:19:28 AM UTC-6, Nicholas Barnard wrote: 

Perhaps its a matter of properly branding authorized Schulmerich refurbishers? 

Nick, you've hit the nail on the head. The problem isn't that third party options exist. The problem is that Schulmerich doesn't educate (sell) their customers on options that preserve their warranty. In my previous Toyota example, if Toyota could convince me that shipping my entire car back to Japan to replace a wiper was going to be more cost efficient and have more benefits in the long run, then I'd do it. Obviously, that's not really a feasible business model in the automotive industry. 

But handbells are much smaller and simpler than cars. Schulmerich could pursue an avenue of treating its customers with respect and assuming that we can learn how properly care for our instruments, rather than taking away all the options and not telling us anything useful. You know who gets treated like that? Misbehaving children sent to stand in the corner for time-out because the adults don't want to invest the effort to actually have an educational moment. (And guess what? Kids treated that way don't learn anything in a time-out!)

Ring on! (But only if so authorized...)

Daniel

--

  Daniel M. Reck

  Creative Director, forzandoArts

  http://www.forzandoArts.com

[F Simpson]

Ah Nick, but it *is* all about Schulmerich vs. Malmark. Just like it's Mercedes vs. BMW, McDonalds vs. Burger King and Coke vs Pepsi.

The only difference here is both of these Handbells were invented by the same person - Jake Malta. And he had some very clear and defined reasons why he preferred one over the other. Now I have no argument over which bell sounds better or which bell rings better - BUT I do have an argument over which one is easier to replace parts on - and Malmark wins hands down.

Schulmerich now says on it's web site it's been wasting it's resources and time selling individual parts one and two at a time. So now if you break a spring, the cheapest you can get out the door is a $50 parts kit?? WTH? I've always buy spring in bulk for "just in case", but never in sets of 30+.

No thank you.



Thomas

[Nancy Hascall]

Is someone making sure the concerns being expressed here are seen by the "powers that be" at Schulmerich? Perhaps we should be directing our comments to THEM, not just each other. Just sayin'. I doubt they wanted to stir up a hornet's nest, or thumb their nose at Schully owners -- perhaps they just didn't adequately think this through.
:-) Nancy Hascall

[gj berg]

>>
Schulmerich now says on it's web site it's been wasting it's resources and time selling individual parts one and two at a time. So now if you break a spring, the cheapest you can get out the door is a $50 parts kit?? WTH? I've always buy spring in bulk for "just in case", but never in sets of 30+.
<<

Good thing I bought "two of each" size extra Schulmerich spring last year after I had a couple of bells' springs crack.

--
gj berg
Elasmobranchology hopeful

[Jennifer Vangolen]

Good point, Nancy.

What this sounds like to me, as someone who has been through 3
corporate acquisitions/restructurings in the past 10 years, is a new
company that is assessing its strengths and weaknesses and trying to
rebuild and grow their brand. Sometimes this means change, which is
hard for everyone, and even harder if all the whys and wherefores that
went into making these decisions aren't broadcast. And for many
reasons these can't be made public. But I am sure that they want to
know about their customers' frustrations and concerns, because without
you, they really have no future.

Some ideas about why they are putting tighter controls on repairs: if
an unskilled person works on Schulmerichs and negatively affects the
sound or ringing quality, that reflects on Schulmerich, even though
they didn't do the work. (This is true for any business - if my
clients chose to go with a third party for training, I still get
blamed for creating flawed software if that trainer doesn't know how
to configure it to do what the client needs!) In the past few years
Schulmerich has fallen behind Malmark in the market, and they need to
fix that. Ensuring they have a quality instrument in the field is one
way to do that.

So y'all should talk to Schulmerich! I am sure they would love this
feedback. Conspiracy theories and brand battles won't really help...

Jennifer Vangolen
Washington State Chair - Area 10
Bells of the Sound
Seattle, WA

On Jan 19, 2013, at 9:22 AM, Nancy Hascall <hascal...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is someone making sure the concerns being expressed here are seen by the "powers that be" at Schulmerich? Perhaps we should be directing our comments to THEM, not just each other. Just sayin'. I doubt they wanted to stir up a hornet's nest, or thumb their nose at Schully owners -- perhaps they just didn't adequately think this through.
> :-) Nancy Hascall
>

[Nicholas Barnard]

I have one datum on this matter, but I had to take photos of handles and email them in before getting the warranty replacement parts, then still mail in the defective handles once I had replaced them with the new handles.

Nick

Seattle, WA

[Nicholas Barnard]

Hi All,

I managed to email the power that is at Schulmerich on a completely unrelated issue. (His email was on the web page I was on..) I have informed him of this thread..

That being said, ignore the fact that he may be watching and lets have our normal vigorous conversation.

Nick
Seattle, WA

On Jan 19, 2013, at 9:22 AM, Nancy Hascall <hascal...@gmail.com> wrote:

[gj berg]

Cost is an issue.  IIRC, it's about $800/octave (plus parts) to have a "qualified" refurbisher come to my location to work on bells.  Contrast that with $1000+/octave+shipping to send to Pennsylvania (from California).  (Considering my annual budget for bells (music/equipment) is $500, it'll take an act of God or Congress to start the fund raising to get the funds to do a refurbishment any time soon, especially with major sanctuary refurbishment planned for this year.)

Now, if Schulmerich would release a list of qualified folks in my state, that would make my decision much easier.

[Nicholas Barnard]

Thomas,

You're doing two things:

Trolling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
Schadenfreude: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

Its rude, disrespectful, and not in line with the respect that I have learned in church and else where to treat others with.

I won't engage with you further on this matter.

Regards,
Nicholas Barnard
Seattle, WA

[Thomas Simpson]

Ok Nick, don't.




Thomas.

Sent from my iPhone

[Ruben Mendoza]

Gail, can I buy some springs from you?!?

Ruben :)

--

[Daniel Reck]

On Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:39:44 PM UTC-6, Ruben wrote:

Gail, can I buy some springs from you?!?

Ruben :)

And so begins the search for parts from third party sources.

-Daniel

[Thomas Simpson]

Maybe we should look into manufacturing them?

T

Sent from my iPhone

--

[gj berg]

Only if you come sub. ;-)

[Kevin Stewart]

Thank you for addressing this discussion on the “L” and for bringing to us Schulerich’s position and rationale on this subject.

 

Kevin Stewart

 

From: kjun...@gmail.com

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 3:36 PM

To: handb...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [HB-L] Re: Schulmerich's New Parts Policy

 

Kermit Junkert, Vice President of Sales and Marketing, on behalf of Mr. Goldstein, President,  Schulmerich Carillons, LLC

Effective 1/21/13

A number of customers have asked about the changes we made to our parts policy.  Let me offer a few clarifications:

The goal of the program is to stop unauthorized repair and refurbishment of our bells by 3rd party refurbishers.  When 3rd parties damage bells, or install parts incorrectly, customers ask us to fix their work.  We simply can't afford to do that at the rate we're asked to do it. 

The goal of the program is not to inconvenience our customers or to restrict customers from repairing their own instruments.  Customers will still be able to order parts for their own instruments.  We will reserve the right to limit the sale of parts that enable or support the disassembly of our Select-A-Strike™ and Quick-Adjust™ Clapper Assemblies.  If, after a conversation with our parts department, a customer wants to order parts sufficient to refurbish a set of bells, we may agree to sell those parts but, depending upon the work to be performed, we reserve the right to cancel the warranty covering the bells on which those parts will be used.  We will not enable or support individuals or businesses commercially engaged in the unauthorized repair or refurbishment of our instruments.

Importantly, at the same time we announced our new parts policy, we made it easier than ever for our customers to ship their bells to us.  We've negotiated deeply discounted rates ($80 per octave one way) with our shipping carrier.  We are offering to use our substantial buying power to insure our customers’ bells from the moment they leave our customers' facilities to the moment the bells are returned to our customers.  We provide boxes and labels and automated pickup and delivery of the bells.  It's never been easier to have your bells serviced by the people who made them. 

We've also expanded the number of trained, factory supervised facilities that can offer service on our bells.  We've backed their work with a factory warranty.  No third party repair or refurbishment facility can offer that.  If a third party flattens a bell, cracks a casting or damages a yoke assembly, you're out of luck.  If you want to send your bells to a third party, you'll pay more to ship them and more to insure them than you will by working directly with Schulmerich. 

By limiting the number of facilities, we are better able to control quality and were able to entice the very best refurbishers to join our program.  We've also made sure that these facilities are geographically distributed to be closer to many of our customers to hold down shipping costs and to increase turn-around time.  If our first outing with this programs is as successful ultimately as it appears to be initially, we may add more facilities in other geographies, if we believe the demand is there. 

Remember, this is a new program.  We've thought it through pretty thoroughly, but we may not have answers to every question right away.  That said, we are totally committed to preserving the integrity of all Schulmerich™ handbells and we will no longer allow our handbells to be compromised.

Please let us know if there are any other clarifications we can offer. 

 

Jonathan Goldstein

President

Schulmerich Carillons, LLC

[Michele Sharik]

Is there a list of these facilities? 

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos  or AutoCorrect weirdness 

[Daniel Reck]

Hello Kermit,

Thank you for posting these clarifying remarks from Mr. Goldstein. May I suggest that they be integrated into the Schulmerich website, and easily referred to at http://www.schulmerichbells.com/products_hb_partlist.php, the location of the policy letter from Mr. Goldstein?

I do have a question, however, when Mr. Goldstein says "When 3rd parties damage bells, or install parts incorrectly, customers ask us to fix their work.  We simply can't afford to do that at the rate we're asked to do it."  Is there a reason why Schulmerich doesn't actually charge sufficiently for these services to cover its costs?  

Likewise, why not charge fees appropriate to cover the costs of excessively small parts orders?   (To be honest, you already stopped me with your base shipping rate... I simply refuse to pay $8 to have a single handle disc shipped via UPS. It would cost $1.50 via USPS.)

Finally, it was interesting to learn about your impressive buying power in shipping, especially given my previous comment. Is this something new? I ask because I bought a B7 from Schulmerich last year, and you yourself inspected it at National Seminar in Cincinnati and confirmed I should send it in for warranty service due to wildly insane tonal issues on the backring. I haven't done so, however, simply because at the time it was going to cost an arm and a leg to ship just one bell back and forth.

I have no desire to beat up on Schulmerich. I'm asking these questions precisely because I want the company that manufactures my favorite instruments to be around for a long time. Good communication from you improves customer service and raises my faith that my patronage is appreciated and worthwhile.

With appreciation,

Daniel

--

  Daniel M. Reck

  Artist and Educator

  http://danielreck.com

[gj berg]

Daniel -- please let me know where you get that USPS shipping rate.

First class parcel packages (one ounce) start at $1.95.  (5 ounces = $2.29) 

http://postcalc.usps.com/

(And that does not count the cost of packing materials!)  If it's thicker than 1/8 inch or has "hard item", a package ships at parcel rate, not letter rate.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Daniel Reck <danie...@gmail.com> wrote:

   (To be honest, you already stopped me with your base shipping rate... I simply refuse to pay $8 to have a single handle disc shipped via UPS. It would cost $1.50 via USPS.)

[Nicholas Barnard]

I'm not sure Daniel was being 100% specific with his example, but I have a concrete example.

I had six handles shipped out via (5s, 6s, and a 7) and I was charged $12.05 for the shipping. ($11.00 in shipping, and $1.05 in tax on the shipping.)

I shipped them back for $2.65 via USPS.

Nick

Seattle, WA

[Daniel Reck]

Hi gj,

I estimated a total First Class large envelope weight of 4 ounces.  When I recently mailed another object similar in size and shape to a handle disc, my local post office decided that it did not qualify as rigid.   It was in a #0 bubble envelope, so that somewhat hid the rigidity. I also did not vary by more than 1/4" in thickness, although it was certainly thicker than 1/8".

So, that gave me $1.50 as per http://postcalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?m=2&p=0&o=4&dz=60521&oz=52302

YOU ARE RIGHT, however, if the envelope is more rigid.  It is $2.12, as shown at http://postcalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?m=2&p=0&o=4&dz=60521&oz=52302

Even so, $2.12 is a lot less than $8.  And you are also correct to think about the cost of packing materials, etc. So...

I buy #0 envelopes in bulk, so they are $0.11 a piece. The shipping label is another $0.04, which we'll round up to $0.05 to cover the printer toner.

Therefore, at most, the actual shipping cost for a 4 ounce, rigid package via First Class Parcel in a #0 bubble envelope is $2.28.  

Let's not forget there is some personnel time.  Let's say it takes five minutes to pack this one item in one envelope and label it. So that's $0.60 in time, assuming Pennsylvania's minimum wage of $7.25.

Now we're up to $2.88 in actual costs to pack and ship a single handle disc, and that is why I am frustrated by an $8 shipping fee that is almost three times as much.

That said, I understand that Schulmerich could do many more profitable things with those five minutes, such as packing a large order instead of a small one.  This is why I asked why they do not charge an explicit fee--a small order fee--on these tiny orders.  As a customer, I'd value this honesty.   If your order is less than X dollars or Y ounces, or whatever, then a small order fee of Z dollars will be added.  Companies do this all the time.  And the customer understands exactly what is happening because they're being treated intelligently.

So, charge for the disc, $2.88 in shipping, and a small order fee.  If I don't want to pay that fee, I'll either not order at all, or find other things to add to my cart to avoid it.  It's the same enticement as Amazon's spend-$25-to-get-free-shipping promotion.  Guess what?  I NEVER, EVER, EVER spend less than $25 on Amazon. EVER.

Ring on,

[Daniel Reck]

On Monday, January 21, 2013 10:39:56 PM UTC-6, Nicholas Barnard wrote:

I'm not sure Daniel was being 100% specific with his example, but I have a concrete example.

 

I shipped them back for $2.65 via USPS.

Gee Nick, I did the exact same thing two years ago and COMPLETELY forgot.  Good example.  Wish I thought of it!

-D

[blanch...@cfl.rr.com]

As a "3rd party refurbisher" I resent the implication that someone's handbell will be damaged just because I worked on it. That is not true.
As a life-long musician with considerable dexterity, intellect, and integrity, not only do I repair handbells, but I also make adjustments to flutes and pianos. I have taken classes in all of the above and have many satisfied clients.
I do NOT represent Schulmerich OR Malmark OR WhiteChapel OR Petit-Fritsen . . . BUT I have successfully replaced parts and refurbished handbells and chimes for each of the above manufacturers.
If a 'broken' bell is brought to me, and I am unable to repair it, then I let my client know right away and recommend they send it to the factory.
Schulmerich's new policy is similar to Malmark in that Malmark will only sell replacement parts to original owners of their handbells or their own company reps. So when I refurbish Malmark handbells, I have to get the owner of the bells to call Malmark with the parts request. Generally, the owner of the bells has no idea what they are talking about and I have to spell it out in detail so that they can convey the message to the company. The company then takes that opportunity to try to convince the customer to send the bells to them instead of going through a local repair person, but my clients have generally stuck with me.
I have not had any complaints from my customers, and generally get referrals from them.
Sincerely,
Blanche Marie Lewis

---- kjun...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Kermit Junkert, Vice President of Sales and Marketing, on behalf of Mr.
> Goldstein, President, Schulmerich Carillons, LLC
>
> Effective 1/21/13
>
> A number of customers have asked about the changes we made to our parts
> policy. Let me offer a few clarifications:
>
> The goal of the program is to stop unauthorized repair and refurbishment of

> our bells by 3rd party refurbishers. When 3rd parties damage bells, or

> install parts incorrectly, customers ask us to fix their work. We simply
> can't afford to do that at the rate we're asked to do it.
>

> The goal of the program is not to inconvenience our customers or to
> restrict customers from repairing their own instruments. Customers will
> still be able to order parts for their own instruments. We will reserve
> the right to limit the sale of parts that enable or support the disassembly
> of our Select-A-Strike™ and Quick-Adjust™ Clapper Assemblies. If, after a
> conversation with our parts department, a customer wants to order parts
> sufficient to refurbish a set of bells, we may agree to sell those parts
> but, depending upon the work to be performed, we reserve the right to
> cancel the warranty covering the bells on which those parts will be used. We
> will not enable or support individuals or businesses commercially engaged
> in the unauthorized repair or refurbishment of our instruments.
>
> Importantly, at the same time we announced our new parts policy, we made it
> easier than ever for our customers to ship their bells to us. We've
> negotiated deeply discounted rates ($80 per octave one way) with our
> shipping carrier. We are offering to use our substantial buying power to
> insure our customers’ bells from the moment they leave our customers'
> facilities to the moment the bells are returned to our customers. We
> provide boxes and labels and automated pickup and delivery of the bells. It's
> never been easier to have your bells serviced by the people who made them.
>

> We've also expanded the number of trained, factory supervised facilities
> that can offer service on our bells. We've backed their work with a
> factory warranty. No third party repair or refurbishment facility can
> offer that. If a third party flattens a bell, cracks a casting or damages
> a yoke assembly, you're out of luck. If you want to send your bells to a
> third party, you'll pay more to ship them and more to insure them than you
> will by working directly with Schulmerich.
>
> By limiting the number of facilities, we are better able to control quality
> and were able to entice the very best refurbishers to join our program. We've
> also made sure that these facilities are geographically distributed to be
> closer to many of our customers to hold down shipping costs and to increase
> turn-around time. If our first outing with this programs is as successful
> ultimately as it appears to be initially, we may add more facilities in
> other geographies, if we believe the demand is there.
>

[Kathleen Nickodemus]

I've been catching up on this discussion in the last day or so, so I'm not sure what originally precipitated it, but I did read Kermit's explanation of Schulmerich's replacement/repair policy and then backed up to read a few other posts on the thread.

As I was reading Kermit's post the thought that kept popping into my mind is that this is not unlike the warranty on a car or many other products we use every day.  Most high-end product manufacturers have very strict policies for the work/repair done on their merchandise while under warranty.  I am free to call any repairman I'd like to work on my washing machine, but if I don't call a Whirlpool authorized repairman, the work done voids the warranty.  It doesn't mean the work won't be done properly, or isn't good, but the company has to have some control over their product while in warranty.

Just my thoughts.
Kathy Nickodemus

[Ann Habicht]

Blanche Marie also generously responded to an email question from me, and clearly explained how I could do a minor repair on a Malmark bell with a cracked handguard.  Malmark replaced the part for free.

 

Ann Habicht

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[gj berg]

While I agree those are the direct costs, you left out the overhead.  (I run a business and many folks forget there are other costs.)

What is the cost to purchase and store those envelopes, labels?  The electricity to illuminate the workspace, run the computer, printer? (And the heating/cooling costs?)  The computer, printer, maintenance, software to print that label, database, ordering, website/telephone?  Don't forget to include the cost of the person taking the order/entering in database too? 

Did you pay by credit card? Then there's a transaction fee deducted by the financial institution. PO? There's a cost to generate and track the purchase order/payment.

(Not to mention the indirect overhead costs of running a business, a portion of which should be allocated to your order?  Health care, pensions, debt servicing/interest, janitorial service, trash removal, etc.)

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 8:42 PM, Daniel Reck <danie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi gj,

I estimated a total First Class large envelope weight of 4 ounces.  When I recently mailed another object similar in size and shape to a handle disc, my local post office decided that it did not qualify as rigid.   It was in a #0 bubble envelope, so that somewhat hid the rigidity. I also did not vary by more than 1/4" in thickness, although it was certainly thicker than 1/8".

So, that gave me $1.50 as per http://postcalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?m=2&p=0&o=4&dz=60521&oz=52302

YOU ARE RIGHT, however, if the envelope is more rigid.  It is $2.12, as shown at http://postcalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?m=2&p=0&o=4&dz=60521&oz=52302

Even so, $2.12 is a lot less than $8.  And you are also correct to think about the cost of packing materials, etc. So...

I buy #0 envelopes in bulk, so they are $0.11 a piece. The shipping label is another $0.04, which we'll round up to $0.05 to cover the printer toner.

Therefore, at most, the actual shipping cost for a 4 ounce, rigid package via First Class Parcel in a #0 bubble envelope is $2.28.  

Let's not forget there is some personnel time.  Let's say it takes five minutes to pack this one item in one envelope and label it. So that's $0.60 in time, assuming Pennsylvania's minimum wage of $7.25.

Now we're up to $2.88 in actual costs to pack and ship a single handle disc, and that is why I am frustrated by an $8 shipping fee that is almost three times as much.

[Daniel Reck]

Hi gj, 

All excellent points. For me, I generally put most of my overhead costs into my product prices rather than my shipping rates, since anyone in the world can work out how much something costs to ship.  Of course, I could be influenced by the fact that 50% of what I sell is an electronically downloadable product. Customers would balk at paying ANY shipping for an electronic download, even though there is definitely an cost to delivering a virtual product.

In Schulmerich's case, I'd also put these overheads in the product prices, since there's really no place to comparison shop. How much does a handle disc really cost to make, with overhead? $2? $20? $220? Who knows besides the bean counters at Schulmerich? 

Yet customers can intuit when they're paying too much for the shipping. When they feel ripped off there, then they have reason to suspect they're being ripped off on the product, too. 

Ring on,

Daniel

--

  Daniel M. Reck

[kjun...@gmail.com]

Just a note to everyone interested in reading about our current position on the selling of handbell parts and our new refurbishment approach, we have updated (as of today) all information on our website.

We will be developing additional Authorized Refurbishments Centers across the US in future years.

Should anyone care to reach out to me personally, please find my email address:  kjun...@schulmerichbells.com

We wish to thank those who have voiced their opinions on these matters.  Obviously, it is impossible to create a policy that finds favor with everyone.

We have a renewed passion about the integrity of our instruments...now Celebrating our 50th year in handbells.

Most Sincerely,

Kermit Junkert
Vice President, Sales and Marketing
Schulmerich Bells

[Michele Sharik]

Thanks, Kermit. 

For those wondering, there are 3 authorized repair facilities. The list is here: 

http://www.schulmerichbells.com/services_handbell_refurbish.php

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos  or AutoCorrect weirdness 

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[Doug Jones]

All east of the Mississippi.� How lovely.

On 1/23/2013 2:26 PM, Michele Sharik wrote:

Thanks, Kermit.�

For those wondering, there are 3 authorized repair facilities. The list is here:�

http://www.schulmerichbells.com/services_handbell_refurbish.php

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos �or AutoCorrect weirdness�

On Jan 23, 2013, at 2:17 PM, kjun...@gmail.com wrote:

Just a note to everyone interested in reading about our current position on the selling of handbell parts and our new refurbishment approach, we have updated (as of today) all information on our website.

We will be developing additional Authorized Refurbishments Centers across the US in future years.

Should anyone care to reach out to me personally, please find my email address:� kjun...@schulmerichbells.com

We wish to thank those who have voiced their opinions on these matters.� Obviously, it is impossible to create a policy that finds favor with everyone.

We have a renewed passion about the integrity of our instruments...now Celebrating our 50th year in handbells.

Most Sincerely,

Kermit Junkert
Vice President, Sales and Marketing
Schulmerich Bells

On Friday, January 18, 2013 3:23:29 PM UTC-5, Nicholas Barnard wrote:

Hello Fellow Musicians,

I'm not sure if you've ran across it but Schulmerich has changed their Spare Parts Policy:
http://www.schulmerichbells.com/products_hb_partlist.php

A few portions of that letter:

"In the short time I've owned the company, far too many handbells have arrived at our factory after being damaged by subpar third party workmanship. We have seen foreign parts not designed for our bells used to "improve" our products. We have seen castings that have been compromised beyond our tuning tolerances due to improper polishing. � Many of you have expressed a desire for more clarity around who can service Schulmerich� instruments in a manner that preserves your instrument's integrity. It is for this reason that we are establishing a limited number of factory-authorized refurbishing facilities world-wide whose work will be performed under factory supervision. � We will no longer sell to any unauthorized repairer or refurbisher parts sufficient to undertake a complete refurbishment of our instruments, nor will we offer for retail sale full octaves of yoke assemblies, handles or other parts which our experience tells us require specialized training to repair or replace."

As much as this is a big change I really welcome this. I don't have the experience on Schulmerichs, but I know when I was working on my church's Malmarks I was a bit annoyed to discover the problem we had been having with the handle screws loosening and not holding the handle block properly wasn't due to any manufacturing fault, but somewhere along the line the handle screws had been replaced with the ones for the wrong bell, specifically the next size smaller.

I know this'll is especially a change for the Schulmerich representatives out there who also undertook refurbishings, but now are no longer allowed to�

Discuss.

Nick Barnard
Seattle, WA

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�

[Kari Daelke]

Minnesota is West of the Mississippi. 

Kari

On Jan 23, 2013, at 9:55 PM, Doug Jones <li...@panix.com> wrote:

All east of the Mississippi.  How lovely.

On 1/23/2013 2:26 PM, Michele Sharik wrote:

Thanks, Kermit. 

For those wondering, there are 3 authorized repair facilities. The list is here: 

http://www.schulmerichbells.com/services_handbell_refurbish.php

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos  or AutoCorrect weirdness 

On Jan 23, 2013, at 2:17 PM, kjun...@gmail.com wrote:

Just a note to everyone interested in reading about our current position on the selling of handbell parts and our new refurbishment approach, we have updated (as of today) all information on our website.

We will be developing additional Authorized Refurbishments Centers across the US in future years.

Should anyone care to reach out to me personally, please find my email address:  kjun...@schulmerichbells.com

We wish to thank those who have voiced their opinions on these matters.  Obviously, it is impossible to create a policy that finds favor with everyone.

We have a renewed passion about the integrity of our instruments...now Celebrating our 50th year in handbells.

Most Sincerely,

Kermit Junkert
Vice President, Sales and Marketing
Schulmerich Bells

On Friday, January 18, 2013 3:23:29 PM UTC-5, Nicholas Barnard wrote:

Hello Fellow Musicians,

I'm not sure if you've ran across it but Schulmerich has changed their Spare Parts Policy:
http://www.schulmerichbells.com/products_hb_partlist.php

A few portions of that letter:

"In the short time I've owned the company, far too many handbells have arrived at our factory after being damaged by subpar third party workmanship. We have seen foreign parts not designed for our bells used to "improve" our products. We have seen castings that have been compromised beyond our tuning tolerances due to improper polishing. … Many of you have expressed a desire for more clarity around who can service Schulmerich™ instruments in a manner that preserves your instrument's integrity. It is for this reason that we are establishing a limited number of factory-authorized refurbishing facilities world-wide whose work will be performed under factory supervision. … We will no longer sell to any unauthorized repairer or refurbisher parts sufficient to undertake a complete refurbishment of our instruments, nor will we offer for retail sale full octaves of yoke assemblies, handles or other parts which our experience tells us require specialized training to repair or replace."

As much as this is a big change I really welcome this. I don't have the experience on Schulmerichs, but I know when I was working on my church's Malmarks I was a bit annoyed to discover the problem we had been having with the handle screws loosening and not holding the handle block properly wasn't due to any manufacturing fault, but somewhere along the line the handle screws had been replaced with the ones for the wrong bell, specifically the next size smaller.

I know this'll is especially a change for the Schulmerich representatives out there who also undertook refurbishings, but now are no longer allowed to…

Discuss.

Nick Barnard
Seattle, WA

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[gj berg]

Only because the Mississippi River actually starts in Minnesota. ;-)

Nothing in Mountain or Pacific Time Zones.  (Or 8 of the AGEHR/HMA regions)

gj berg
Elasmobranchology hopeful

[Ruben Mendoza]

Area 12 has ringers in Guam.  What are they suppose to do for parts?!?

Ruben :)

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[F Simpson]

I guess it's no soup for you Guam. 

:-(

Thomas

[Kermit Junkert]

Pick up the phone and order the parts like all other customers.

Our website has our most current updates on these matters.

You may contact me personally if you required additional information.

--
Kermit Junkert

Artistic Director

Philadelphia Handbell Ensemble

www.PhillyBells.org

[Silver Woodbury]

Don’t forget about your regional Schulmerich reps.  We can help you order your parts kits, too!

 

Mrs. Silver D. Woodbury
Silverbell Enterprises
Regional Independent Sales Representative for Schulmerich Bells
Oklahoma - Kansas - Arkansas - Northern Texas
Authorized Dealer for Murphy Robes in Oklahoma
10012 Carnie Circle, Yukon, OK  73099
405-519-0331 mobile
888-735-5407 toll-free voice and fax
silve...@cox.net or SWoo...@SchulmerichBells.com

From: handb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:handb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ruben Mendoza
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:10 PM
To: handb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HB-L] Re: Schulmerich's New Parts Policy

 

Area 12 has ringers in Guam.  What are they suppose to do for parts?!?

[TimR]

I've been meaning to order a parts kit for some time, so I'd be ready for the next broken spring, etc.

Of course I procrastinated, and of course Bb4 broke its spring this week.  

So I ordered one today.  The website is different from what i remembered, but I always check the website, make my choices, then call and talk to a human anyway.  

The sales rep was knowledgeable and helpful, and I had no trouble ordering what I needed.  For me this policy doesn't seem to be a problem, at least not yet.  

[Nicholas Barnard]

Hi Rick,

I'd give the employees at Schulmerich a bit of slack, I'm sure they've had lots of change recently and they'll get back to their Bronze level customer service soon. (there isn't anything higher when it comes to bells!)

As for the parts policy, from what I understand this brings it closer in line to Malmark's policy.

Nick

Seattle, WA

On Feb 5, 2013, at 11:04 AM, rickyp...@gmail.com wrote:

   I've talked to Schulmerich customer service, and just like Kermit said we are out of luck?!? It's time to switch over to Malmark. It seems in the last few months Schulmerich is just crashing. The company used to be a place you could trust and they would bend over backward for us, now we are just out of luck!! My church is currently switching out Schulmerich bells with Malmark and I think thats smart. I've had tours of the building years ago and it was a great experience and a couple months ago did another tour (with a group this time) and did not like it one bit! The person giving the tour did not seem interested in doing what he was doing, employees seem to not want to be there which was not the case in my first tours.The place is gloomy and if they treat their employees like their customers then the product that they build will suffer.  So not only has the repair kits change been a problem, I've noticed everything and Schulmerich just doesn't have the same feel as it once used to. Would George Schulmerich turn me down for springs? I don't think so, this place is more worried about money then its customers.

Rick Inland  

[Thomas Simpson]

Hi. 

I've always been able to order amy parts from Malmark. Be it one spring or a gross of them with no restrictions. 

They've always been happy to send me any parts I needed. Now if I were refurbishing bells as a profession - like Jeffers for example - they might deal with me differently. 

Thomas 

Sent from my iPhone

[kjun...@gmail.com]

That’s what’s great about America.  Regardless of your perspective you have a right to express your thoughts and make choices every day.  God Bless America.

As far as the artisan craftsman and lifelong employees at Schulmerich, I’ll stand by their side any day and will defend their passion for what they do. 

·         Lena in accounting (41 years);

·         Frank, large bell lathe master (40 years);

·         Don, our Controller (38 years);

·         Greg, head of Engineering (37 years);

·         Nancy, handbell sales and carillon contract management (34 years);

·         Norm, handbell lathes (29 years),

·         Barb, handbell lathes (28 years);

·         Alan, carillon assembly and large bell lathes (23 years);

·         Joe, handbell assembly and tuning (16 years);

·         Gene, handbell machine shop (15 years);

·         Donna, handbell assembly (15 years);

·         Brenda, handbell sales (15 years);

·         Tony, handbell polisher (13 years);

·         Wendy, handbell assembly and tuning (14 years);

·         Johanna, handbell sales (12 years); and there are more. 

 

Personally, I’ve been with the company for more than 26 years.

 

Demand for our handbells, MelodyChime® Instruments, and carillons has outstripped our supply every month for the past six months.  We’ve added 5 new people in the factory in the last two months just to meet increased demand.

 

I’m sorry you had a bad experience, but you can rest assured that Schulmerich is growing and thriving every day by focusing on our customers and on our employees. 

[rickyp...@gmail.com]

Kermit,

Sounds like you have a some very dedicated people employed. Perhaps it was just a bad day (it happens). God Bless America. I still do not feel comfortable with the change in the new parts policy. 

Rick Inland

[Daniel M. Reck]

Kermit,

Maybe this is a silly question, but if the concern was that it is "too
expensive" for Schulmerich to ship small orders of replacement parts,
why doesn't Schulmerich just charge an appropriate "small order fee"
to cover the expense?

If someone really wants to buy a single handle disc to replace a
broken one, and is willing to pay a reasonable extra fee for the
convenience of doing so, then why not allow it?

Thank you,

Daniel

--
Daniel M. Reck

Director, Shadows of Bronze
http://shadowsofbronze.org

[TimR]

On Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:48:13 AM UTC-5, kjun...@gmail.com wrote:

 

·         Brenda, handbell sales (15 years);

 

Brenda is the one I usually end up talking to, and she's always been excellent.  That includes last week when I placed my last order.   

[TimR]

 

I just looked at the website today.

 

It seems as if they have become even more restrictive, even telling us not to call the sales department for small orders, and reducing what you can order to either a spring kit or a springless parts kit.   I can't even buy the $100 kit I just bought a couple months back (and am glad I did.) 

 

You can't buy a clapper head at all, and apparently not send in one bell for refurbishment.  I'd have to send in at least one octave, at $1330, if I had one broken bell that needed more than a spring. 

 

I've read the concerns about improper repair and refurbishment, but I don't understand them.

 

Seems to me there are only two things you can do wrong fixing a bell:  use an inferior part, or polish with power tools.  Bells just aren't all that complicated. 

 

If it's not cost effective to sell small parts orders, double the cost.  These things are reasonably cheap anyway.  If you somehow manage to damage the thing fixing it, then they can charge extra when you do send it in. 

 

Had another thought though.  I bought an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner for $3 at a thrift store.  It does a fair job on a ring or earring, will just barely fit a trombone mouthpiece so I've cleaned up the collection.  Would a larger model be a good bell cleaner?  Disassembled of course. 

[Cyndy]

In defense of Schulmerich - I just ordered a collection of specific springs - they were very helpful - just call them!

Cyndy in southern Oregon

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Silver Woodbury]

Please, please, PLEASE call your Schulmerich rep (if there is one designated for your area).  We are happy to help!

 

Silver

 

Mrs. Silver D. Woodbury
Silverbell Enterprises
Regional Independent Sales Representative for Schulmerich Bells
Oklahoma - Kansas - Arkansas - Northern Texas
Authorized Dealer for Murphy Robes in Oklahoma
10012 Carnie Circle, Yukon, OK  73099
405-519-0331 mobile
888-735-5407 toll-free voice and fax
silve...@cox.net or SWoo...@SchulmerichBells.com

From: handb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:handb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cyndy
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 9:54 AM
To: handb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HB-L] Re: Schulmerich's New Parts Policy

 

In defense of Schulmerich - I just ordered a collection of specific springs - they were very helpful - just call them!

[Nicholas Barnard]

Hello Everyone,

I wasn't going to resurrect this thread, but both manufacturers have a similar policy. I received a mailer from Malmark on refurbishing and they very clearly stated that if you had someone other than a Malmark Authorized refurbishment it would void your warranty.

You'd be amazed what people can screw up when they don't know what they're doing.

Nick

Seattle, WA

On Apr 26, 2013, at 6:16 AM, TimR <timot...@aol.com> wrote:

[Thomas Simpson]

This is true.

And Malmark encourages you do minor repairs yourself - they even sell a video that shows you how (I think it's even on youtube for free now) AND they will sell you parts in any quantity you need or ask for. I've ordered 2 springs before, a clapper head here and there, ect. They are the nicest people ever too! 


Thomas

Sent from my iPad

[Daniel Reck]

Hi Nick and all,

I suspect most people understand that both Malmark and Schulmerich have policies which, in effect, say "if you don't have a manufacturer-authorized person or facility do the repair work, you loose your warranty and any new repair costs down the road are the customer's responsibility."

The frustration here is that Schulmerich has adopted a policy restricting customers from even performing minor repairs using factory parts. They are almost encouraging customers to void their warranties by using unauthorized repair facilities or inappropriate parts.  In practice, are almost encouraging customers to void their own warranties, which is precisely what they say they are trying to avoid.

I have privately contacted an independent Schulmerich rep in hopes that I might be able to get an audience with someone who is making these policies. It IS possible for them to run their business profitably without alienating their customers. (Of course, if they continue to alienate their customers, they will eventually have no business to run.) Indeed, with better service policies, I believe Schulmerich could turn a tidy profit while making its customers feel prized and well-cared for. 

Ring on,

Daniel

--

  Daniel M. Reck

  Director and Controller-of-handbell-related-expenditures, Shadows of Bronze

  http://shadowsofbronze.org

[TimR]

On Friday, April 26, 2013 4:39:27 PM UTC-4, Daniel Reck wrote:

 It IS possible for them to run their business profitably without alienating their customers. (Of course, if they continue to alienate their customers, they will eventually have no business to run.) Indeed, with better service policies, I believe Schulmerich could turn a tidy profit while making its customers feel prized and well-cared for. 

Ring on,

Daniel

I have been very happy with Schulmerich customer service.  When I called I always reached a knowledgeable sales rep who helped me order the right parts, got them in the mail immediately, billed me correctly, etc.  Everything I could wish for - they seemed to genuinely want to help me.  

I'm finding the current website rather unfriendly, and if that were my only experience with the company i would have a very different perception.   

[Daniel Reck]

Hi Tim,

As a business owner--and I suppose as a business customer--I look at service as an all-inclusive package. Yes, the people who answer the phones at Schulmerich are friendly and helpful, but unfortunately their good work is being undone by the website and the recent policy statements which do not exactly embrace customers or our needs.  Like every good company, Schulmerich needs to care for its customers consistently across the entire spectrum of interactions: phone, internet, face-to-face, telegraph, smoke signal, etc.

Ring on!

Daniel

--

  Daniel M. Reck

  Guarantor of Customer Satisfaction, forzandoArts

  http://www.forzandoArts.com

[Thomas Simpson]

Personally, I have found their smoke signal ordering to be highly unreliable. Once I ordered a C#7 though smoke signal and received a C4. 

Terribly disappointed. And they wouldn't take it back either. All smoke signal sales are final - I thought I had a copy of their smoke signal policy, but somehow it blew away. Oh well. 

Thomas 

:-) 

Sent from my iPhone

--

[TimR]

On Saturday, April 27, 2013 12:16:33 AM UTC-4, Thomas Simpson wrote:

Personally, I have found their smoke signal ordering to be highly unreliable. Once I ordered a C#7 though smoke signal and received a C4. 

Terribly disappointed. And they wouldn't take it back either. All smoke signal sales are final - I thought I had a copy of their smoke signal policy, but somehow it blew away. Oh well. 

Thomas,

Clearly you have the same problem I have - the urge to post after a couple of beers.

Resist.  It's better in the long run.

Or not, I've seen it work both ways.   

 

[Thomas Simpson]

If you only knew me. I'm a tea-toodler! 

Thomas 

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Tom Cowley]

I Recently ordered parts for my bells and had no problems getting what I needed and the sales person couldn't have been nicer.

I did not need a yoke assembly, just discs, springs and a handle. I got exactly what I needed  and they even sent parts They anticipated that I would need without an order that's good business! All of my bells are now perfect and have a few of each spring

for spares.

            Thank You,

                              Schulmerich

                              Tom Cowley

                               Lents SDA Portland,Oregon

On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 12:23:29 PM UTC-8, Nicholas Barnard wrote: