Hilty method

[Michele Sharik]

Can anybody remind me of the particulars of the Hilty Method of bell assigning? Thanks!

-Michèle

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos or AutoCorrect weirdness

[Stephanie Wiltse]

As I recall, it was chromatic and in changing octaves. For example, one
assignment could include C3, C#4, D5, and D#6 as one assignment. Much
marking was needed.

Stevie

> particulars of the Hilty Method of bell
> assigning? Thanks!
>

> -Mich�le

>
> Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos or AutoCorrect weirdness
>

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[Michele Sharik]

There used to be a description here:

http://www.highplainsringers.org/Hilty_bell_assignment.html

But that page seems to be gone. :-(

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos  or AutoCorrect weirdness 

On Jan 8, 2013, at 9:45 PM, "Stephanie Wiltse" <wil...@iserv.net> wrote:

As I recall, it was chromatic and in changing octaves. For example, one
assignment could include C3, C#4, D5, and D#6 as one assignment. Much
marking was needed.

Stevie

particulars of the Hilty Method of bell

assigning? Thanks!

-Michèle

[Michele Sharik]

I love the Wayback Machine!!

http://web.archive.org/web/20080517135502/http://www.highplainsringers.org/Hilty_bell_assignment.html

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos  or AutoCorrect weirdness 

[Thomas Simpson]

So here's a question. Has Handbell music changed over the years that this method is now an easier or harder choice to make work? 

Thomas 

Sent from my iPhone

[Kjame...@aol.com]

Hilty makes for better bass runs.... like in Change Ring Prelude. 

#1 has C3, F3, B3

#2 has D3, G3, C4

#3 has E3, A3, D4

 

kj,
The meaning of life is to find your gift.  The purpose of life is to give it away.

[Rima Greer]

I agree, it's WAY more efficient to split up the bass section like this.   At least this is a great start.

The only problem with ANY "standardized" assignment, is that it is inherently unmusical.  It's always more musical to keep a musical phrase together, and when you adhere to any "standard", it's not necessarily going to line up with the musical lines of each piece.

We've had this discussion before….  But I feel like I need to say it.  Again.  Because I'm a PITA.  ;-D

Rima

www.campanilemusic.com

www.atlpublishing.com

[Jason Tiller]

Yo, Michele, :)

On Tue, 8 Jan 2013, Michele Sharik wrote:

> Can anybody remind me of the particulars of the Hilty Method of bell
> assigning? Thanks!

The Hilty "method" is simply mechanically assigning each ringer a set
number of bells that are spaced by a specific interval, usually major
7ths, minor 9ths, etc.

Given that Hilty's express goal with his scheme was to keep everybody
equally busy... it's not high on my list of useful tools. Rima
already said it - the scheme is inherently unmusical and leads to a
"music box" sound, the bane of handbell ensembles.

---Jason

[Rima Greer]

Oh yeah. And it makes it nearly impossible to memorize your music, since your bells are kinda random. Which, in my book, is a huge reason not to use it.

However, I still think splitting the bass line is a great way to go. It prevents "flapping" and is way more fun to play because you're not frantic.

Rima
blah blah blah

[Michele Sharik]

On Jan 9, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Rima Greer <rim...@mac.com> wrote:

> Oh yeah. And it makes it nearly impossible to memorize your music, since your bells are kinda random. Which, in my book, is a huge reason not to use it.

I know what you mean. I have no trouble memorizing tons of solo music, but find it nearly impossible to memorize group music in which I have a "standard" 2-bell assignment.

What I have found most successful for me in that endeavor is to think in terms of chord progressions and solfege. "Here's the dominant chord moving to one and I play ti, then the anticipation do do."

Still MUCH harder than learning a line!

-Michèle fa la la la la

[Rima Greer]

Exactly. It's way easier to memorize a sentence than random words. Music should be sentences in a paragraph (and maybe even part of a novel!) not individual notes/words. So, shouldn't we assign sentences if we want our music to make sense?

Actually, I'm really glad I was teaching assigning at National this past summer. Carlos Rivera was also teaching an assigning class, so I took his class (so I'd know what the heck to do in mine!)

In Carlos' class, I learned the Vivace secret behind all their crazy runs. He assigns "sentences", but he moves his ringers instead of moving the bells. In Vivace, you never have the "and" of any beat. You ALWAYS have the beginning of the beat, even if you have to play your neighbor's bell to do it.

Now, if you combine modular assigning (which is what I do - where you have a "part" that makes musical sense) and perform it using Carlos' secret, you end up with amazingly musical performances, which are easily memorized - all you have to do is "sing" in your head, and just "sing" your line with the bells.

Rima
www.atlpublishing.com
www.campanilemusic.com

[Michele Sharik]

Yep. We do much the same with crazy runs in Sonos, especially in the bass (tho treble does it too).

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos or AutoCorrect weirdness

[Heitz Handbells]

The last time I was singing with my bells, I got yelled at!!!

I actually memorize very easily and "hear" my part and those around me (in my head) for weeks ahead of time.

Carol

 

Carol A. Scheel, Norm P. Heitz
Heitz Handbells and Music LLC
612-208-1741
1 (877 or 866) 426-3235
www.heitzhandbells.com

From: Michele Sharik <mic...@thegoldendance.com>
To: "handb...@googlegroups.com" <handb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Memorizing (was Re: [HB-L] Hilty method)

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[Rima Greer]

LOL!  Yeah, that's what I meant…. "sing" in your head…

Rima

must learn to say my WHOLE thought, because, darn it, other people can't read my mind!  ;-D

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[Michele Sharik]

And I must admit to being alternately miffed and pleased that Carlos' class is receiving such high praise. Pleased because it really does make it much easier to play musically (YAY!!), but miffed because Sonos has been doing this - and talking about it and teaching it - for years.

Kathie Fink and Jason Tiller have both taught that same method at many conferences, but were always met with "yeah, that works for Sonos because you guys are pros, but us normal people can't do that!" (And I suspect that Carlos gets some of the "kids can do anything" reaction too.)

I have used this method with my church groups for years and once they get used to the idea of (gasp!) putting a bell down, they usually like it better.

Speaking of putting a bell down -- One of my catchphrases when teaching bells is this: the bells live on the table, not in your hand (and definitely not at your shoulder). You pick them up when you need them & put them down when you don't.

-Michèle

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos or AutoCorrect weirdness

[Rima Greer]

Yes, I have changed the subject line…. Read on! It'll make sense by the end.

On Jan 9, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Michele Sharik <mic...@TheGoldenDance.com> wrote:

> And I must admit to being alternately miffed and pleased that Carlos' class is receiving such high praise. Pleased because it really does make it much easier to play musically (YAY!!), but miffed because Sonos has been doing this - and talking about it and teaching it - for years.

Dang it. I'm usually teaching when you're teaching, so I didn't know that. Of COURSE you do it. It makes sense. What I thought was interesting is that, for Vivace, it's almost a RULE.

Now you know how it feels when people are all excited about groups that play with no table skirts, or memorize, or (gasp!) dance. Hello? Campanile 1990. ;-D

> Kathie Fink and Jason Tiller have both taught that same method at many conferences, but were always met with "yeah, that works for Sonos because you guys are pros, but us normal people can't do that!" (And I suspect that Carlos gets some of the "kids can do anything" reaction too.)

That is absolutely true. "you guys are Campanile, so that's fine for you, but we're just a "fill in the blank"." I've heard that WAY too many times. Hell, if we can do it, you can do it. It just takes - wait for it - PRACTICE.

> I have used this method with my church groups for years and once they get used to the idea of (gasp!) putting a bell down, they usually like it better.

Gasp indeed! We call this Bad Bell. Bell must leave your hand as soon as you play it, unless you KNOW that's the one you're playing next!

> Speaking of putting a bell down -- One of my catchphrases when teaching bells is this: the bells live on the table, not in your hand (and definitely not at your shoulder). You pick them up when you need them & put them down when you don't.

Yup. Leaves you time to…. um….. dance! Or sip your merlot. ;-D

Thanks for saying that about the shoulder thing. I absolutely HATE HATE HATE the shoulder thing. It makes even a supermodel look like a sleeping chicken.

XXX
Rima

[F Simpson]

"Thanks for saying that about the shoulder thing. I absolutely HATE HATE HATE the shoulder thing. It makes even a supermodel look like a sleeping chicken."

Don Allured had been saying that for 40 years!




Thomas

[Charles Peery]

I understood what you said about no ringer beginning on an "and", but could you say more about "sentences?"  I think I know what you mean but I want to be sure.  Thanks!

Chuck in St. Louis

On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:43 PM, Rima Greer wrote:

 He assigns "sentences"

[Rima Greer]

Hi Chuck

Let's say you have to remember these words:

now

the

of

dis

glor

this

Would you know it's Shakespeare?   Isn't it much easier to remember:

Now is the winter

or

of our discontent

Can't you say "now is the winter" with much more meaning, than you can "now-the-of-etc…"

So rather than assigning notes (words) to people, we should be assigning the people to groups of notes (sentences) that play together often.

If you look at the video of Rumeurs, you'll see what I mean.   FF all the way to 4:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM52hJUoPdU

I've got:

D6/E6  (L)

G6/A6  (R)

Roger has:

B6/C7 (and I dunno what else - stuff for whatever line he plays next.)

Why?   Because that means we can play it with two people, and because it's easy to remember, and more musical to play that way.   I've got the entire melody, except the BCB thing, which is in Roger's hands.   I don't have to count, I know how the song goes, I just "sing" in my head and play along.  Also, notice that Roger has almost nothing to do, however he is not emulating  somnambulant poultry.  ;-D  Not only can we play it smoothly, but it LOOKS better, and we can have more fun with it.

In a "standard assignment" the same sequence would look like this:

(C) D

E (F)

G A

B C

It would take TWO extra people - a total of four.  Two people would have ONE note to play each, and probably look like sleeping chickens.  Worse, they'd have to stand there and count, probably stressing about missing their one note.   And the D-E eigth-note combination would be awkward to play, and much less musical.  

Sentences:

D6/E6 

G6/A6

and

B6/C7

Words:

(C) D

and

E (F)

and

G A

and

B C

Does that help?

There are a zillion examples I could give you, but because we're all alone out there at that moment, it's really easy to see.

XXX

Rima

[Charles Peery]

ThanksI   I got the overall concept, I just didn't know if "sentences" meant something other than what I thought it meant.

Chuck

[Charles Peery]

OK, so... does this mean nobody does "bells up together" at the beginning of a piece? Just trying to carry this out to all of its ramifications.
Chuck

[Heitz Handbells]

lol!!  I knew what you meant but had to add that.

 

Carol A. Scheel, Norm P. Heitz
Heitz Handbells and Music LLC
612-208-1741
1 (877 or 866) 426-3235
www.heitzhandbells.com

From: Rima Greer <rim...@mac.com>
To: handb...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:53 PM

Subject: Re: Memorizing (was Re: [HB-L] Hilty method)

LOL!  Yeah, that's what I meant…. "sing" in your head…

Rima

must learn to say my WHOLE thought, because, darn it, other people can't read my mind!  ;-D

On Jan 9, 2013, at 1:51 PM, Heitz Handbells <heitzha...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The last time I was singing with my bells, I got yelled at!!!

I actually memorize very easily and "hear" my part and those around me (in my head) for weeks ahead of time.

Carol

 

Carol A. Scheel, Norm P. Heitz
Heitz Handbells and Music LLC
612-208-1741
1 (877 or 866) 426-3235

http://www.heitzhandbells.com/

From: Michele Sharik <mic...@thegoldendance.com>
To: "handb...@googlegroups.com" <handb...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: Memorizing (was Re: [HB-L] Hilty method)

Yep. We do much the same with crazy runs in Sonos, especially in the bass (tho treble does it too).

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos  or AutoCorrect weirdness

On Jan 9, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Rima Greer <rim...@mac.com> wrote:

> In Carlos' class, I learned the Vivace secret behind all their crazy runs.  He assigns "sentences", but he moves his ringers instead of moving the bells.  In Vivace, you  never have the "and" of any beat.  You ALWAYS have the beginning of the beat, even if you have to play your neighbor's bell to do it. 
>
> Now, if you combine modular assigning (which is what I do - where you have a "part" that makes musical sense) and perform it using Carlos' secret, you end up with amazingly musical performances, which are easily memorized - all you have to do is "sing" in your head, and just "sing" your line with the bells.

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[F Simpson]

Yes. It does.

[Rima Greer]

Sure, you can do that. But that doesn't mean you have to have chicken wings. And if you don't play right away, you can lift your eyes, lift your rib cage, and generally look ready. If you're playing, instead of chicken wings, you can lift your arms to a graceful handbell version of ballet 1st position. It looks lovely, and actually is MORE of a preparation. After all, you don't ring from your shoulder, do you?

Rima
Ah, just like the old days, mouthing off on the L when I should be doing other stuff, like taxes… ;-D

[Rima Greer]

Hello Thomas darling.

Not taking the bait. See my response. ;-D
XXX
Rima

[F Simpson]

No bait to take, sweetie . . .

I'm serious. I don't do "bells up" with my groups.

Half the time they are doing something other than ringing, or they just stand there waiting to ring. Looks crazy to me. Those that need it, bring up their bells with the need to play - or on my upbeat.


Plenty of time.



Thomas

[Rima Greer]

Yeah, I'm not a "bells up" fan in general. You don't see the 2nd violins with their fiddles under their chins and bows on strings waiting for five measures either. ;-D

But just because you're not doing the Sleeping Chicken, doesn't mean you can't do bells up if you want to.

OMG, we agree! Will wonders never cease!

XXXOOO

Rima

[F Simpson]

We agree?

Oh then forget it.

I am TOTALLY for Bells up. Everyone, every time. Period.



Thomas

[Michele Sharik]

I don't. I don't pick my flute at the beginning of a piece if I don't play right away, either.

Marching bands do because that's part of their "thing". If a bell group wants to look like a marching band, then more power to them. But don't do it because it's the "only" or "right" way. Do it because that's the way you WANT your group to look.

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos or AutoCorrect weirdness

On Jan 9, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Charles Peery <cep...@earthlink.net> wrote:

[Michele Sharik]

Plus, what Rima said.

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos or AutoCorrect weirdness

[Heitz Handbells]

uh.  Rima??? I'm not a ballet person (sorry).  What's 1st position?

 

Carol A. Scheel, Norm P. Heitz
Heitz Handbells and Music LLC
612-208-1741
1 (877 or 866) 426-3235
www.heitzhandbells.com

From: Rima Greer <rim...@mac.com>
To: handb...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [HB-L] Know your handbell history - are we chickens or musicians????

Sure, you can do that.  But that doesn't mean you have to have chicken wings.  And if you don't play right away, you can lift your eyes, lift your rib cage, and generally look ready.  If you're playing, instead of chicken wings, you can lift your arms to a graceful handbell version of ballet 1st position.  It looks lovely, and actually is MORE of a preparation.  After all, you don't ring from your shoulder, do you?

Rima
Ah, just like the old days, mouthing off on the L when I should be doing other stuff, like taxes… ;-D


On Jan 9, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Charles Peery <cep...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> OK, so... does this mean nobody does "bells up together" at the beginning of a piece?  Just trying to carry this out to all of its ramifications.
> Chuck
>
> On Jan 9, 2013, at 3:19 PM, F Simpson wrote:
>
>> "Thanks for saying that about the shoulder thing.  I absolutely HATE HATE HATE the shoulder thing.  It makes even a supermodel look like a sleeping chicken."
>>
>>
>> Don Allured had been saying that for 40 years!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
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>>
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[Rima Greer]

Sorry…. shorthand.  Here are the ballet arm positions:

http://kids.britannica.com/elementary/art-88149/Ballet-dancers-use-five-basic-positions-of-the-feet-and

First position in handbells (in my universe) would be in front of you, slightly below shoulder level, with your elbow very slightly bent.   It's the starting position you see in Michele's techniques video.   Or first position in this ballet chart, only with your arms less rounded and hands pointing forward

Rima

sorry.  bun head.

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[TimR]

On Wednesday, January 9, 2013 6:54:10 PM UTC-5, Rima Greer wrote:

Sorry…. shorthand.  Here are the ballet arm positions:

http://kids.britannica.com/elementary/art-88149/Ballet-dancers-use-five-basic-positions-of-the-feet-and

First position in handbells (in my universe) would be in front of you, slightly below shoulder level, with your elbow very slightly bent.   It's the starting position you see in Michele's techniques video.   Or first position in this ballet chart, only with your arms less rounded and hands pointing forward

But emulate the arm position, not the hands themselves.  Well, maybe that's obvious.  But the awkward appearing hand position common to ballet nowadays came about for a reason you may not have suspected.  A few early ballet stars had severe arthritis, which eventually ended their careers, but in the early stages affected their hands first.  That stiff wrist bend then was copied by the rest, and has become tradition. 

[Michele Sharik]

What stiff wrist bend? Are you looking at the same pictures I am?

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos or AutoCorrect weirdness

On Jan 10, 2013, at 5:24 AM, TimR <timot...@aol.com> wrote:

> That stiff wrist bend

[Rima Greer]

Nothing should be stiff. Everything should be strong, but relaxed, with energy flowing through….

Rima
yeah, I know, very funny… thanks for not saying it.

[TimR]

Usually I can post a link, today I couldn't.  google "ballerina hands"  and click images.  They all have titles like graceful, elegant, etc., but I disagree.  Most look awkward and distorted.  (and that's what I thought when I briefly studied ballet with Makarov, formerly of the Moscow Ballet;  unfortunately I broke my ankle skydiving after about a week so I never achieved much skill.  He refunded my tuition cheerfully and, it seemed, with a sense of relief, which gave me cause to suspect I hadn't been doing well.) 

[Michele Sharik]

I was looking at the pics in the link Rima sent. No stiff wrist bend in those. The wrist was neutral.

-Mè (took a semester of ballet back in 1988. I am HORRIBLE at ballet!)

Sent from my iPad so please excuse any typos  or AutoCorrect weirdness 

--