Singing bell questions

[Kathleen Nickodemus]

I've used the singing bell technique but have some questions based on what I've seen others do.

I *hate* the "scraping" sound some ringers create trying to get the singing started.
How do/can you avoid it?

I have dowels dipped in plastic-cote and in the 5s range the "sing" comes out immediately.

I've seen you-tube video in which the bells are tapped with the dowel and then the "sing" is
continued with the technique.

What are the highest bells that can be effectively used?  I'm seeing music written for singing sixes,
which I don't quite understand.  How does one even create the sound with the smaller bells, let
alone for two beats?

Thoughts?
Thanks.....
Kathy Nickodemus

[Michele Sharik]

Bt "scraping" Do you mean the sound the bare wood makes on the metal or the "zing" of the stick bouncing on the bell? 

Sonos sings sevens. 

Fwiw

-Michèle

Sent from my iPhone

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[Kathleen Nickodemus]

I mean the bare wood sound on the metal as the stick is rubbed to get the singing sound started.
And the question about the sixes and smaller....how is the sound started?  Just rubbing or tapping/ringing
and then rubbing?

I watched (and subbed) for a group doing a piece that has a singing half note - with a six.  How?  ;)
Kathy

[mic...@thegoldendance.com]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:33:22 -0500, Kathleen Nickodemus wrote:
> I mean the bare wood sound on the metal as the stick is rubbed to get
> the singing sound started.

The only way around that is not to use bare wood. Always use
rubber-coated sticks. (FWIW, I hate that sound, too.)

> And the question about the sixes and smaller....how is the sound
> started?  Just rubbing or tapping/ringing
> and then rubbing?

Yep!

> I watched (and subbed) for a group doing a piece that has a singing
> half note - with a six.  How?  ;)

No idea - did they actually make it happen? I would think that's too
short a time to get the bell to adequately sing. I'd substitute a
suspended mallet roll for that one, unless the ringer had magic singing
technique or something (it's always possible). ???

-Michèle

[Kathleen Nickodemus]

You've confirmed some of what I figured out for myself.....  I use rubber-coated sticks, but more and more see the bare wood. ick.

and for the sixes...I was subbing for the part, and found it impossible to do.  It went by so quickly I just rang it softly. 
Thanks for the info!

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[Rob Meyer]

BTW - I have found that with our wc (that's whitechapels not water closet) the bare wood works better....
Rob in Northville, MI

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[Kathleen Nickodemus]

The scrape-y sound on the Schullies is almost unbearable! (to me).....  I'm ringing for Scott's concert Sunday night.  Rehearsal last night drove me NUTS.
:)

[Kevin Stewart]

So, what is the plastic coating and where do you get it?

 

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[Kathleen Nickodemus]

Kevin,
I'll attach a link.  I used the plastic coating dip for metal handled tools and such....found it at Lowe's (Home Improvement) store.  My son painted the sticks white, and then dipped 1/2 in black, hanging to "dry".
Kathy

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=plastic+coating+dip&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=UPW&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1467&bih=731&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=10688833302561512873&sa=X&ei=XzngTqOPL8rDgAeW8LyJBg&ved=0CHsQ8wIwAA

[Kathleen Nickodemus]

arg! - the whole URL didn't show as "linkable".  Copy and paste the whole thing....it should come up.

[Ann or Bob Frederking]

At 08:39 PM 07/12/2011, mic...@thegoldendance.com wrote:

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:33:22 -0500, Kathleen Nickodemus wrote:

I mean the bare wood sound on the metal as the stick is rubbed to get
the singing sound started.

The only way around that is not to use bare wood. Always use rubber-coated sticks.  (FWIW, I hate that
sound, too.)

I disagree. I think that sound is caused by moving the dowel around the bell too fast. When we slowed the motion down, we had little or no problem with it. Our dowels are just what was termed "hardwood" at Rona - a Canadian store  like Home Depot. They worked fine except for the low bass bells and for them I bought some rosewood claves. Not very expensive and the denser wood worked well.

Ann

Ann Frederking, Director
Emmanubells, http://www.emmanuelunited.ca/music/bells.php
Emmanuel United Church
Ottawa, Ontario  CANADA

[Michele Sharik]

It's the "zing" that's cause by moving it too fast. The wooden "scrape" happens no matter how fast you move the stick. 

FWIW, the farther away you are feom the bell, the leas noticeable the sound is. So, while ir bothers me as a performer (and on recordings), it's not bad from the audience's perspective. 

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Kathleen Nickodemus]

Exactly -- the "zing" is controllable.  I've found that the plastic coat, at least on 4s and 5s (trying it with Malmarks) brings out the "sing" almost immediately which is lovely.  If memory serves me right this technique was first "discovered" using Malmark mallet handles, which would make sense.  I'm not sure it would be quite so popular if it had originated with bare wood scraping the bells.

I am curious about the clave comment though.  Think I might have to introduce my pair to the bells to see what difference that makes.  I'm sure there must be something to the density of the wood.
Kathy

[Ruben Mendoza]

Here is a video I made demonstrating the technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjrHv88hi9E&feature=g-upl

Ruben

Los Angeles, CA

[Wendi Levitt]

Michele is correct. Ringers need to slow down their movement around the bell as it starts that sound. And you shouldn’t need to tap the bell to get it started. Hard wood with a little texture works the best. Ends of mallets just end up torn up (an expensive lesson).

 

Bare wood works on all octaves.

 

Wendi

 

From: handb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:handb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michele Sharik
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 11:07 PM
To: handb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HB-L] Singing bell questions

 

It's the "zing" that's cause by moving it too fast. The wooden "scrape" happens no matter how fast you move the stick. 

[Mark Arnold]

I don’t know that there’s a “one size fits all” answer to this – I tried different woods, coated (tool dip from the well known music store “Lowes”) and uncoated,  in different sizes.  Different ringers had degrees of success with each, but in general, it seems that harder wood in fairly large sizes works best, maybe with a bit smaller as you get higher.  A double-dip did not yield a good result – way too sticky.  Bare wood is harder to learn to control, but once you practice it, can give you more ability to control the sound.  Most of the control problem is keeping the pressure constant on the bell, so the stick doesn’t “bounce”, while controlling the speed.

  

Claves are a very hard wood, and about the right size, so I think they might give you what you want, but it’s pretty hard on the clave – I also prefer a little bit longer stick.

 

Mark

 

From: handb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:handb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kathleen Nickodemus
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:10 AM
To: handb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HB-L] Singing bell questions

 

Exactly -- the "zing" is controllable.  I've found that the plastic coat, at least on 4s and 5s (trying it with Malmarks) brings out the "sing" almost immediately which is lovely.  If memory serves me right this technique was first "discovered" using Malmark mallet handles, which would make sense.  I'm not sure it would be quite so popular if it had originated with bare wood scraping the bells.

--

[janab...@aol.com]

I'm just joining the discussion late.  Sorry if it has already been answered.

 

We tried bare cedar dowels first.  Not so  good.  Then we tried bare oak dowels.  They worked great.  It is the inward pressure that makes it work.  The 'zing' means you're moving too fast.  It is lovely to hear at close range.  I don't know about the carrying capacity of the sound.

 

Janet Schafer

Mpls. MN

[David Engle]

We have been very successful on the mid 5's and below by using a rubber grip coated dowel and gripping the coated end.  We leave enough space to use the coating to get the bell singing with a light touch and slowly moving the dowel around the bell.  It usually take less than one turn to get the "singing" started.  Then we slowly raise the dowel to continue the "sing" with the uncoated portion of the dowel.  SLOW is the key as others have mentioned. 

David in Stafford, VA

[Ann or Bob Frederking]

Ruben,

With all due respect, it's not really necessary to hit the bell first unless you need sound IMMEDIATELY. And I'd still like to see you move it slower.

Ann

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
2011 pictures of Ann's Hostas - over 170 varieties - Updated August 2011
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Family site - Christmas letters and more - http://www.magma.ca/~fredrkng
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[Ruben Mendoza]

Yes I know that now. The video was taken about 3 years ago. Back then many ringers were struggling to get any type of sound!

Ruben

[mic...@thegoldendance.com]

Ruben wrote:
"3 years ago" ... "Back then"

I love our art!

-Michèle

[Stephanie Wiltse]

Ah yes, the Romantic Era. I remember it well.

Stevie

> Ruben wrote:
> "3 years ago" ... "Back then"
>
> I love our art!
>

> -Mich�le

[Thomas Simpson]

I'm surprised this is in color it's so long ago.

Thomas

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 8, 2011, at 10:16 PM, "Stephanie Wiltse" <wil...@iserv.net> wrote:

> Ah yes, the Romantic Era. I remember it well.
>
> Stevie
>
>> Ruben wrote:
>> "3 years ago" ... "Back then"
>>
>> I love our art!
>>

>> -Michèle

[Marg Trethewey]

When I tried your link I got a shopping site rather than details of  the plastic coating product you described.  Would you please reply with the brand name and other details of the product you used?  Is this spray or a can of liquid into which items can be dipped?  What are the more usual uses for this product?  (When trying to explain to store clerks it is often helpful to know this as otherwise, when asking for something be used for an atypical purpose, I find I get weird looks, as sort of "there, there" patronizing cluck and redirection to something that isn't at all what I need!)  When I searched the PlastiKote site I couldn't find a product description that matched yours.  Here in Canada we now have Lowe's stores so there is hope that I may find the same product here. 

Marg

[Mark Arnold]

This is what I’ve used – although I prefer bare wood (unpainted, and harder wood is better, so buy the more expensive dowels).   Typical use is to coat tool handles.

 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_42518-61158-11603-6_0__?productId=3543512&Ntt=plasti+dip&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dplasti%2Bdip&facetInfo=

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[Wendi Levitt]

www.singinghandbells.com

 

We don’t coat our dowels and I do ship to Canada. I use only hardwood (walnut, oak, beech, maple) and right now I have a few walnut dowels in my stock.

 

From: handb...@googlegroups.com [mailto:handb...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Arnold
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 10:22 PM
To: handb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [HB-L] Singing bell questions

 

This is what I’ve used – although I prefer bare wood (unpainted, and harder wood is better, so buy the more expensive dowels).   Typical use is to coat tool handles.

[Ken and Linda Lamb]

My favorite dowels are covered with suede, DYI.

Linda Lamb

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From: we...@heartlandringers.com

To: handb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [HB-L] Singing bell questions

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:10:16 -0500

[Clairedenver]

I successfully made my own sticks from a hardwood dowel cut into the right sized lengths. We dipped half of them halfway but the ringers prefer the bare side for singing the bell. 

Another wonderful piece using the SB is Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence by Julie Turner - an easy level 1+ but with amazing chords and techniques.   My church group is rehearsing now to play in Dec but last year my community group played this and all loved the ethereal sound of the SB. Such fun for ringers and audiences. 

Happy singing and ringing!  Claire

Sent from my iPhone

[Nick Hanson]

I concur with Linda's suggestion of using suede.  It's a hard enough material that it will get the vibration going, but still soft enough that you will not get the skipping to occur.

I haven't had a chance to do this for my groups, but I will someday.

One question, Linda, if you have bells with nicks in the lip, does that cause any issues with the technique?

Nick H.

[Ken and Linda Lamb]

Hi Nick,

Yes, the nicks (nothing personal, you understand...) cause the zing.  I think our G4 has a spot in the lip which causes problems.  I guess there's nothing that can be done about that?

LindaL

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From: tintinn...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:40:35 -0400

Subject: Re: [HB-L] Singing bell questions

To: handb...@googlegroups.com

[Ann F]

I saw some suede covered dowels being used in singing bowls at a concert last summer. Very interesting.

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Emmanubells Handbell Team - http://www.emmanuelunited.ca/worship_renewal/bells.php
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[Ann F]

We also made our own out of (unspecified) hardwood dowel. They work fine on the smaller bells. For the big bass bells, I was able to get a couple of rosewood claves - 2 in a package for about $10 and they work really well too.

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Clairedenver <claire...@comcast.net> wrote:

--

[Silver Woodbury]

If you have a set of bells that have several nicks around the rims, it will make doing the singing bell technique more difficult.  Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no fix for the nicks. 

 

Moving the dowel around the rim too quickly also causes the “zing.”  Once the bell starts singing, slow your motion down.  It just takes a little practice to learn how fast you need to “stir” to maintain the tone and volume you want.

 

Happy Ringing (and Singing)!

Silver

 

Silver Woodbury | Artistic Director | Oklahoma City Handbell Ensemble, Inc.
PO Box 721578 | Oklahoma City, OK 73172-1578

Mobile: 405-519-0331 | Fax: 405-212-4899

sil...@okcbells.com | www.okcbells.com

 

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[TimR]

I used two singing bells to accompany a vocal quartet this summer. Soprano, alto, tenor, and bass sang When Jesus Wept as a round, while the bells sang a D minor chord. To the singers's ears it was plenty loud but the recording barely picked up any singing bells. I think I have an mp3 of it, I'll post if anybody is interested. These maybe don't project as well as we think. I did a sopranino recorder/singing bell duet a couple years ago and the same thing happened.

 

[Colin Walker]

How do you attach the suede?  Spray glue?

Colin

[Ken and Linda Lamb]

Oh dear, it's been so long I don't remember.  Maybe you're right - spray glue.  Whatever it was, they've stayed glued.

LL

---

From: colin...@gmail.com

To: handb...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [HB-L] Singing bell questions

Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 11:34:31 -0700

[Clairedenver]

Ann, how low do you sing your bells?  Where do you get the redwood claves? C

Sent from my iPhone

[Clairedenver]

I'd be interested in hearing the recording of your round. This may be a piece to do for a processional with groups of singing bells around the church. C

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2014, at 12:25 PM, "'TimR' via Handbell-l" <handb...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I used two singing bells to accompany a vocal quartet this summer. Soprano, alto, tenor, and bass sang When Jesus Wept as a round, while the bells sang a D minor chord. To the singers's ears it was plenty loud but the recording barely picked up any singing bells. I think I have an mp3 of it, I'll post if anybody is interested. These maybe don't project as well as we think. I did a sopranino recorder/singing bell duet a couple years ago and the same thing happened.

 

--

[Colin Walker]

I’m not Ann, but I’ve sung bells as low as C2… for those I usually use the handle of one of the old Q-tip mallets that has had the head cut off.  I’ve also sung a C3, and have used both rubberized and non-rubberized dowels.  I’m going to have to try suede, though… that intrigues me.

 

Colin

[Nicholas Barnard]

Well we just have to change the name of the zing inducing defect to Maria, and we’ll get a Rodgers and Hammerstein song out of it.

But I’m curious if anyone has contacted the manufacturers or their local metal worker to grind out pieces of metal that hang over the edge of the lip? Its not a problem I have, but it might be worth thinking about.. 

Nick

(Yes, I know there is no fix for the Nicks.)

[Ann F]

Claire - I think the lowest we have sung is an F3 or C3. It's been awhile since we did the piece that required them that low; so I'd have to look it up. I got the claves at Long and McQuade  which is a Canadian music store chain. But I should think most decent music stores would carry them.

Ann

[Ann F]

I think it was the F3. I just looked at the YouTube video. We have only 2 bells of the lower 5th and it appears that the C3 is still on the table.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglvUaf1ZN4

[Ann Wood]

Regarding the small nicks in the rims of bells, I’m certain I was told in a maintenance class at National Seminar several years ago (can’t even remember who was teaching the class, so it has been a while) that one could take a tool with a round shaft (like a nut driver, for instance) and roll it carefully over those small nicks to smooth them out.  I haven’t tried it myself, but I have a couple of bells that could use the treatment if it works.  Any wisdom from the collective –L mind?

Ann Wood

[Thomas Simpson]

Sounds like a sure way to void your warranty to me! 

:-)

Thomas. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2014, at 3:47 PM, Ann Wood <daw...@charter.net> wrote:

Regarding the small nicks in the rims of bells, I’m certain I was told in a maintenance class at National Seminar several years ago (can’t even remember who was teaching the class, so it has been a while) that one could take a tool with a round shaft (like a nut driver, for instance) and roll it carefully over those small nicks to smooth them out.  I haven’t tried it myself, but I have a couple of bells that could use the treatment if it works.  Any wisdom from the collective –L mind?

Ann Wood

--

[TimR]

Our church has light attendance during the summer and the choir and handbells take a break. 

I usually program at least one amateur group during that downtime.  There isn't a lot of pressure so nerves aren't a factor, I can get people to play or sing that normally would be hesitant.

This round is a quartet with two male singers from the choir and two women who are not.  I am the second male voice to enter, not the nice clean tenor of the 20 something who starts, but the 60+ year old darker voice on part 3.  I am playing one of the singing bells and one of my ringers is playing the other.  We are just doing D and F, making a d minor chord which fits with the entire piece.  I did not realize how much the bells would be overpowered by the voices and if i did it again i would definitely have more than two, probably the whole chord (D-F-A) doubled at least. 

https://app.box.com/s/zn9jet9qi4jebmaie2u8

It is a pain in the butt to ring and sing at the same time and I plead that as my excuse for the occasional scrape. 

I really like the combination of mellow low singing bells and a high bright instrument or voice.  I've done a couple of singing bell and sopranino recorder pieces and they have worked well 

I made the sticks with a hardwood dowel from home depot, and a can of tool dip.  My ringers have universally decided to hold the tool dip and ring with the bare wood.