ppFMT#14 2020-09-15

[Black Michael]

Note...if you would send me your bearing and distance from me I will send you a ray trace of the 30M and 40M transmit for today to your direction.

I made a web page you can enter your lat/lon and then send me the bearing and distance.  Click the "presets" to load my location then enter your lat/lon, click Calculate, and send me dx(km) and bearing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxxgi0fxq98qd93/bearingdx.htm?dl=0

I'm using pharlap and can produce a ray trace like this one for 10.135MHz from me to VE3YX's bearing (53 degrees from me)

pharlap also shows why 20M wasn't working too well for us....this pattern is probably similar in all directions.

Makes me wonder about the homogeneity of the ionosphere at different heights and how it affects doppler and stability.

22:45 Netlogger start

23:00:00 CW ID -- start recording

23:01:00-23:02:00 -- 1 minute 10.135MHz +/- 100Hz -- Recommend set rig to 10.134, reference to 10.1345

23:02:00-23:04:00 -- Idle

23:04:00-23:05:00 -- 1 minute keydown again

23:06:01 -- test over -- stop recording

23:15:00  CW ID -- start recording

23:16:00-23:17:00 -- 1 minute 7.065MHz +/- 100Hz -- Recommend set rig to 7.064, reference to 7.0645

23:17:00-23:19:00 -- Idle

23:19:00-23:20:00 -- 1 minute keydown again

23:20:01 - test over -- stop recording

#1 Everybody make sure your computer time is correct.  http://time.is

#2 Rig should be on for at least 30 minutes without transmitting

#3 If you have a Ref you need to ensure your RX PPM is correct -- see the WWV codec PPM measurement Section 2.49 in http://www.w1hkj.com/files/fldigi/fldigi_4.1.15-help.pdf

This is necessary to ensure your audio linearity is correct between the Ref and Unk frequencies for a more accurate correction.

#4 Tune rig to frequency -- test frequency will be within +/-100Hz of announced frequency

#5 Set your data collection rate to 0.1 seconds in FLDigi -- easier for us to cross-analyze data

#6 Tune your reference to at least 300Hz away from the announced frequency  -- the test frequency will be on a non-100Hz interval to avoid harmonics so you can use a 100Hz internval for the Ref.

#7 Wait for the start and adjust the Unk offset using the controls to align close to the Unk freq...you just need to see it start tracking and you can stop adjusting.

#8 DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING WHILE COLLECTING -- unless you see an obvious error going on of course.

#8 When done send your results to the net control along with a description of your measurement setup.  We're particularly interested if you have a reference frequency close to the unknown.

#9 After the collection set your Ref offset to the Unk offset and ensure you see the same average error when the Ref was at the lower frequency.  You may see some small difference you can correct for.  For example, the reference may be a little bit high and you can subtract the difference or a little bit low and you can add it.  This is the audio linearity problem which should be solved with the PPM correction which I recommend you do.

Mike W9MDB

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Mike

Those are interesting plots.

67 degrees and 1213 miles. Taken from VOACAP.

Had family interruptions here so not focused on the ppFMT

73, Tom

On 9/15/2020 11:10 AM, 'Black Michael' via HamSCI wrote:
> Note...if you would send me your bearing and distance from me I will
> send you a ray trace of the 30M and 40M transmit for today to your
> direction.
> I made a web page you can enter your lat/lon and then send me the
> bearing and distance.  Click the "presets" to load my location then
> enter your lat/lon, click Calculate, and send me dx(km) and bearing.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxxgi0fxq98qd93/bearingdx.htm?dl=0
> I'm using pharlap and can produce a ray trace like this one for
> 10.135MHz from me to VE3YX's bearing (53 degrees from me)

> Inline image
> pharlap also shows why 20M wasn't working too well for us....this
> pattern is probably similar in all directions.
> Makes me wonder about the homogeneity of the ionosphere at different
> heights and how it affects doppler and stability.

> --
> Please follow the HamSCI Community Participation Guidelines at
> http://hamsci.org/hamsci-community-participation-guidelines.
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[Black Michael]

Hey Dan,

I deliberately did this test 1Hz lower than last time.

So this showed up the weakness in your FFT approach.  You are off by over 1Hz since the bin widths on your FFT are wider than that.

Increasing the FFT size would improve that...but you'll never get to FLDigi's 2mHz 1 sigma level performance using the FFT method.

Mike W9MDB

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020, 06:05:02 AM CDT, ve9...@bellaliant.net <ve9...@bellaliant.net> wrote:

 

At 10 MHz, the reported frequency is  = [10134992.812] Hz

Higher noise floor, some QRM.

 

At  7 MHz, the reported frequency is  = [7064991.736] Hz

Lower noise floor, zero QRM.

 

 

 

At  7 MHz, the reported frequency is  = [7064991.753 7064991.753] Hz

Low noise, zero QRM.

 

 

In Python, I wrote these two lines of code:

 

stat = scipy.stats.describe(val2)
print (stat)

 

Slimy Skin responded with:

 

DescribeResult(nobs=4, minmax=(992.1617727771678, 992.1789242590559), mean=992.1703485181118, variance=9.805777698536452e-05, skewness=0.0, kurtosis=-2.0)

 

These are very nice long numbers. Apparently, Mike has 4 nobs that do not skew. Good job Mike -- I think.

The best part is the value of the word 'Kurtosis'. I like saying that word. It is allowed to be in the +/- 10 range.

I still don't understand the meaning.

 

 

The 992 numbers seem to pair with Senor Tom measurements.

I reported 991 after subtracting Rig Error.

 

I am finding that rig calibration is one of the key steps -- and the hardest -- to get Python to do.

Everything else falls nicely into place.

 

Hissy Fit Dan

[Black Michael]

What Dave is doing in FLDigi is not an FFT all nor a typical DFT.  WSJT-X does an FFT and the accuracy of FLDigi's approach is superior.

The algorithm is like this where DFT1 is the inner loop of a regular DFT.  Normally this inner loop would run over the entire frequency range but since we "know" the frequency to start with (our offset we pick) we don't need to check other frequencies.

This approach does 3 inner DFT loops and computes the ratio of one-half binwidth below and above the target frequency.

Freq = DFT1(Freq)

Freq2 = DFT1(Freq-halfbinwidth)

Freq3 = DFT1(Freq+halfbinwidth)

Ratio = (Freq2-Freq3)/(Freq2+Freq3)

dmK = tan(PI/(2*SampleRate)

srK = SampleRate/PI

DeltaF = srK * atan(Ratio*dmK)

Freq = Freq + DeltaF

The paper http://www.w1hkj.com/alpha/fldigi/DFT-based_parameter_estimator.pdf describes this as recursive until the DeltaF change stabilizes.  But we found you only need 2 iterations and 3 or more didn't help things much.  So it's run just twice.

The real trick here is the DFT isn't as it would normally be...it's O(6N) (6 calls to the inner loop at specific frequencies) so is linear with the size of the DFT which is now 51,200 points.  A complete DFT is O(N^2) and FFT is O(NlogN).  So this approach beats both of those in speed and superior accuracy.

For example here's my ANAN 100 (Bodnar Reference) measuring a 2nd BodNar set to 4999000.

An  FMT analysis gives 4999000.0008 with a standard deviation of 0.0012Hz

Mike W9MDB

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020, 07:04:41 AM CDT, ve9...@bellaliant.net <ve9...@bellaliant.net> wrote:

Very good Mike.

 

I don't mind being off at all, because I still don't have a handle on Rig Calibration.

This FFT stuff that then generates a DFT is exactly what Really Old Dave is doing with FLdigi - I think.

 

Thank you - on behalf of the Community - for providing these signals to play with.

You missed a TX #2 on 30M. Apparently you misread your own schedule. This error qualifies you as being a 'Nut'.

 

Send us all your numbers. Hiss Face is coiled up on my lap trying to stay warm, and reading the emails.

 

Quantum - is my on command typist. He never makes rerrors.

 

Dan

 

 

[Black Michael]

One more FMT analysis with the same setup I just sent but with the antenna disconnected.

So this shows more the limit of the accuracy and precision of FLDigi's FMT technique.

Not really any different when the noisy antenna was present.

Average 4999000.0008

1 Sigma 0.0011

Mike W9MDB

[David Kazdan]

Seconded.

The full algorithm of that paper uses even less computation than that describes because it starts with coarser samples and wider binwidths, then works its way in with the recursions.  It's a happy circumstance:  If you don't do that, the algorithm may "lock" onto a local amplitude maximum near the cursor frequency and miss the actual signal; if you do, there's less computation than there would be if you risk that error.

I have been collecting a literature of frequency estimation papers for W8EDU and HamSCI's WWV monitoring work.  I will upload or email them if there's interest, just let me know.

         David AD8Y

[David Kazdan]

Yes, that's correct in the sense that the fldigi user supplies the first guess.  I wasn't clear.  T&R uses less computation than even other DFT techniques that make fewer assumptions than it does.

The "guess" that T&R starts with as described is the highest amplitude frequency bin within the frequency range of interest.  Inherently, the computation has to start within a half bin-width of the frequency to be measured or it can spuriously identify a local maximum in noise.  It starts with a shorter sampling interval and therefore wider bins.  Part of the recursion is adding samples and narrowing the bins; the recursion terminator is diminished change from one set of estimations to the next.

By the way, I ran some timing tests with SciPy's fft module (linked from C) and a Goertzel algorithm I wrote in Python.  It was for a slightly different purpose but applies here.  For the five or ten frequency bins I wanted over a wide range of sample sizes, the computing a full DFT by fft was faster than computing a small number of bins by Goertzel or by direct vector multiplication.  The latter were fast for only one or two bins or for prime sample sizes.  The fft algorithms published these days are remarkably optimized even for sample lengths that are not maximally composite (a power of 2).  I was surprised.

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020, 09:25:45 AM EDT, w1hkj <w1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I think David, AD8Y, mean to say that the paper algorithm uses more computation than fldigi's modified algorithm.  The paper assumes a wideband sampled data set with a single frequency of interest.  Even using narrow band transceiver filtering we can expect to experience QRM.  The recursion described in the paper is bypassed by using the intelligent filter between the user's ears, and setting the cursor on the visible waterfall signal.  Every reset of the waterfall cursor is also a restart of the recursion in which the previous estimate is used as the starting value for the next estimation.

David, W1HKJ

[Black Michael]

And to put FLDigi's accuracy in the PPM vernacular.

At 5MHz it runs at 5^10PPM (2 sigma) which is a bit more than two orders of magnitude worse than the WWV typical error of 1^12 as AD8Y described in his TAPR talk.  The good news is it gets better for FLDigi as at 10MHz it is 2.5^10PPM.

Mike W9MDB

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020, 08:25:39 AM CDT, Dave <w1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I think David, AD8Y, mean to say that the paper algorithm uses more computation than fldigi's modified algorithm.  The paper assumes a wideband sampled data set with a single frequency of interest.  Even using narrow band transceiver filtering we can expect to experience QRM.  The recursion described in the paper is bypassed by using the intelligent filter between the user's ears, and setting the cursor on the visible waterfall signal.  Every reset of the waterfall cursor is also a restart of the recursion in which the previous estimate is used as the starting value for the next estimation.

David, W1HKJ

On 9/16/20 8:10 AM, David Kazdan wrote:

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[Black Michael]

The next thing to figure out is how to improve the T&R to detect the multimode propagation.  One of the things I noticed in David's TAPR presentation was that the FLDigi signal was 1-sided.  FLDigi was toggling between the low and high on the same side as the mode split.

One of the weaknesses of DFT/FFT is that it's discrete (quantized) so doesn't actually measure true frequency.

Ergo the techniques to determine the "real" frequency from the quantized bins.

Mike W9MDB

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[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Hi Dave,

I have been setting the unk waterfall cursor as soon as the CW call up
starts then tweaking it with the .1 Hz steps as soon as the steady
carrier starts to as close as I can to center on the unknown FMT signal.

Before the FMT I set the ref cursor on the sig gen freq - I usually see
my receiver offset then of 2-3 Hz but the ref filter and tracking loop
seems to be able to handle that just fine.

Then leaving all along until the FMT is done.

Thanks for your work on the FMT Modem.

73, tom w7sua

On 9/16/2020 6:25 AM, w1hkj wrote:
> I think David, AD8Y, mean to say that the paper algorithm uses /more/

> computation than fldigi's modified algorithm.  The paper assumes a
> wideband sampled data set with a single frequency of interest. Even
> using narrow band transceiver filtering we can expect to experience
> QRM.  The recursion described in the paper is bypassed by using the
> intelligent filter between the user's ears, and setting the cursor on
> the visible waterfall signal.  Every reset of the waterfall cursor is
> also a restart of the recursion in which the previous estimate is used
> as the starting value for the next estimation.
>
> David, W1HKJ
>
> On 9/16/20 8:10 AM, David Kazdan wrote:

[Black Michael]

You should adjust the offset during the CW period and leave it alone and not touch it (or the rig) during the key down.

It does not have to be that close to Unk signal at all...it can be several Hz off.  As long as you see it is tracking correctly the FMT CSV file will have the needed correction.

By moving the offset during the key down you are potentially creating more innaccuracies at the start of key down.

Mike W9MDB

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[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

OK, Thanks Mike

Tom w7sua

> >> ve9...@bellaliant.net <mailto:ve9...@bellaliant.net>

> <ve9...@bellaliant.net <mailto:ve9...@bellaliant.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Very good Mike.
> >> I don't mind being off at all, because I still don't have a handle on
> >> Rig Calibration.
> >> This FFT stuff that then generates a DFT is exactly what Really Old
> >> Dave is doing with FLdigi - I think.
> >> Thank you - on behalf of the Community - for providing these signals
> >> to play with.
> >> You missed a TX #2 on 30M. Apparently you misread your own schedule.
> >> This error qualifies you as being a 'Nut'.
> >> Send us all your numbers. Hiss Face is coiled up on my lap trying to
> >> stay warm, and reading the emails.
> >> Quantum - is my on command typist. He never makes rerrors.
> >> Dan
>
>
> --
> Please follow the HamSCI Community Participation Guidelines at
> http://hamsci.org/hamsci-community-participation-guidelines.
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[Black Michael]

Results.

I only got two reports

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Thanks Mike!

Very much appreciate your efforts to let us test our stations and
practice the FMT.

Were you able to do any ray tracing? I did look up the PHaRLAP toolbox
for MatLab.

I will not be able to participate in any ppFMT tonight.

Bob, will join the Ontario Olivia net as soon as I can.

73, tom w7sua

On 9/17/2020 8:21 AM, Michael Black via groups.io wrote:
> Results.
> I only got two reports
>

> Inline image
>
> Mike W9MDB

[Black Michael]

That's a good thing to know Bob.

Mike W9MDB

On Thursday, September 17, 2020, 11:40:01 AM CDT, Bob Howard <how...@magma.ca> wrote:

Something I have done a few times if the Unk is fairly weak:
It can be difficult to find the beginning and end of the key down period just looking at the Unk error data.
I have opened the .wav file in Goldwave (or Audacity) and filtered it with a bandpass filter set to say 970 to 1040 Hz.  The resultant graph shows the timing of the key down very clearly.

Original .wav for the 30 m test:



Filtered:



I didn't attach my .csv file to the last email - here they are.

73 de Bob

On 2020-09-17 9:55 AM, Bob Howard wrote:

Finally got around to looking at Tuesday's ppFMT data:

Average:	10134993.927
Std Dev:	0.044

1st 40 m

Average:	7064992.726
Std Dev:	0.052

2nd 40 m

Average:	7064992.786
Std Dev:	0.031

Thanks Mike.

73 de Bob

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Hi Mike,

I am looking into using pharlap but also see I need to have MatLab on hand.

Would it be possible for you do do two PHaRLAP runs for myself W7SUA and
Dave AJ4CO? We are working on analysis of the HAARP lunar echo
experiment last week with a 30 KHz wide sweeping signal centered at 9.6
MHz from HAARP.

Please could you one ray trace run from HAARP to my QTH in AZ and one
ray trace run from HAARP to Dave's QTH in Florida? We are interested in
the number of hops and the travel time from HAARP to our QTHs.


#1
N Lat (°) E Lon (°) Alt (m) - distance
HAARP 62.3925 -145.1506 574
W7SUA 34.7710 -112.5326 1524 3820 Km

#2
N Lat (°) E Lon (°) Alt (m) - distance
HAARP 62.3925 -145.1506 574
AJ4CO 29.8369 -82.6214 18 4316 Km

Thanks very much, Tom Azlin W7SUA
703 967-0304

On 9/15/2020 11:10 AM, 'Black Michael' via HamSCI wrote:

> Note...if you would send me your bearing and distance from me I will
> send you a ray trace of the 30M and 40M transmit for today to your
> direction.
> I made a web page you can enter your lat/lon and then send me the
> bearing and distance.  Click the "presets" to load my location then
> enter your lat/lon, click Calculate, and send me dx(km) and bearing.
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxxgi0fxq98qd93/bearingdx.htm?dl=0
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxxgi0fxq98qd93/bearingdx.htm?dl=0>
> I'm using pharlap and can produce a ray trace like this one for
> 10.135MHz from me to VE3YX's bearing (53 degrees from me)

> Inline image
> pharlap also shows why 20M wasn't working too well for us....this
> pattern is probably similar in all directions.
> Makes me wonder about the homogeneity of the ionosphere at different
> heights and how it affects doppler and stability.

> --
> Please follow the HamSCI Community Participation Guidelines at
> http://hamsci.org/hamsci-community-participation-guidelines

> <http://hamsci.org/hamsci-community-participation-guidelines>.

> ---
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/593423314.2462396.1600193416728%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Sorry Mike. That was not meant to be on this list. 73, Tom

[David Eckhardt]

When I checked PHARLAP yesterday, it appeared it was freeware, or at least an evaluation copy.  But, then, there is a learning curve.  If we're going to use that, someone in the group should learn how to use it.  Please, not me, as I've got too many other projects going.

Dave - WØLEV

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Just Let Darwin Work

[David Eckhardt]

Several decades ago, HAARP asked us hams to do a reception trial on or near 10 MHz off the moon.  I had to get up at 0200 or 0300 in N. Colorado, but I had absolutely no problem receiving their echo off the moon.  At the time, I filed a report as requested.  Unlike 2-meters and 70-cm, the lack of libation fading surprised me.  But considering the much longer wavelength, it should have not been a surprise, just what my ear had been trained to hear.

Dave - WØLEV

[James Secan]

A couple of years ago there was a short discussion of PhaRLAP on this group and a question was raised as to whether it could be run using the free-ware Octave app. I don’t recall seeing a final yes or no on that, but it could save the cost of a MatLab license.

Jim
3222 NE 89th St
Seattle, WA 98115
(206) 430-0109

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/CAODdWWFq2STE9w75RTn1HUvubQySd5v9%2BCcCdBSekA5-brdVJQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gerald Creager]

From what I found at the time, "No."

gerry n5jxs

Capt Gerry Creager, CAP

SWR Health Services Officer

Weather and Environmental Support Officer -- Incident Management Team

OKWG Asst Dir Communications Planning

(C) 979.229.5301
Civil Air Patrol, U.S. Air Force Auxiliary
gocivilairpatrol.com

Southwest Region -- Civil Air Patrolhttps://swrcap.com/

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/949B72F9-922F-476D-AB5C-FBC2911B49E0%40gmail.com.

[Kristina Collins]

I can do some runs for you guys if W9MDB can't. It'll take me a few days, though. Let me know if it's needed. 

-KC

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/CAG3zga5_R_ugXxJsLH1uAUqmj5kppBM_iqs7Dh6bJCB9MstomQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tom Azlin W7SUA]

Thanks Kristina. I will let you know.

Tom

On 1/19/2022 4:36 PM, Kristina Collins wrote:
> I can do some runs for you guys if W9MDB can't. It'll take me a few
> days, though. Let me know if it's needed.
> -KC
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 6:33 PM Gerald Creager <gcre...@cap.gov
> <mailto:gcre...@cap.gov>> wrote:
>
> From what I found at the time, "No."
>
> gerry n5jxs
>

> **
>
> *Capt Gerry Creager, CAP*

>
> SWR Health Services Officer
> Weather and Environmental Support Officer -- Incident Management Team
> OKWG Asst Dir Communications Planning
>
> (C) 979.229.5301
> Civil Air Patrol, U.S. Air Force Auxiliary

> gocivilairpatrol.com <http://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/>

>
> Southwest Region -- Civil Air Patrolhttps://swrcap.com/
> <https://swrcap.com/>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 4:57 PM James Secan <james...@gmail.com
> <mailto:james...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> A couple of years ago there was a short discussion of PhaRLAP on
> this group and a question was raised as to whether it could be
> run using the free-ware Octave app.  I don’t recall seeing a
> final yes or no on that, but it could save the cost of a MatLab
> license.
>
> Jim
> 3222 NE 89th St
> Seattle, WA 98115
> (206) 430-0109
>
> > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:17 PM, David Eckhardt

> http://time.is <http://time.is>

> <mailto:hamsci%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > > <mailto:hamsci+un...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:hamsci%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.

> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/593423314.2462396.1600193416728%40mail.yahoo.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/593423314.2462396.1600193416728%40mail.yahoo.com>
>
> > >

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/593423314.2462396.1600193416728%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/593423314.2462396.1600193416728%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Dave - WØLEV
> > Just Let Darwin Work
> >
> >
> > --
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[Ethan Miller K8GU]

I'm looking forward to hearing about how well the results line up with what I sketched!  I am currently PHaRLaP-less or I would have offered to also run it as well.

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Repair.  Re-use.  Re-purpose.  Recycle.   

[Ethan Miller K8GU]

Jim,

PHaRLaP is distributed as pre-compiled .mex binary extensions to MATLAB.  Unless the Octave development team have faithfully reproduced the ability to dynamically link .mex* files, I'm guessing the answer is "no."  There was some movement on working with the PHaRLaP developer (DSTG) to build a Python equivalent version, but I do not know the status of that.

--Ethan.

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[James Secan]

Ethan,

I just downloaded the code from the DSTG website and the README file claims the pieces are there to build a python version. It includes a dislaimer that “support for any non-Matlab version of PHaRLAP will be very limited”, but it’s not clear if that means a python version will have less capabilities or if they’re saying support from DSTG in debugging a non-Matlab version will be limited.

I’m going to see if I can make this work on a Mac.

Jim
3222 NE 89th St
Seattle, WA 98115
(206) 430-0109

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[Bill Liles]

Nathaniel has a student at the University of Scranton working on the conversion to Python. Due to semester break I do not know the current status if the project but should know by next week. 

Bill NQ6Z

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[James Secan]

Ethan,

Ah, the key sentence in the README file is “Using the C wrappers and makefiles as examples it should be possible to build non-Matlab versions (e.g. Python versions) of PHaRLAP with the supplied libraries.” So (1) there’s a certain amount of DIY code development needed, perhaps a large amount, and (2) you need to use compilers that are compatible (if not identical to) the compilers used to build the libraries.

So, perhaps possible, but by no means a slam-dunk.

Jim
3222 NE 89th St
Seattle, WA 98115
(206) 430-0109

> On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:14 AM, Ethan Miller K8GU <et...@k8gu.com> wrote:
>

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/hamsci/CAFkosZ%2BJY%2BDLgP%2BTgJy_a%2Bww9oSEF0Ea-6Akaosv7c8F9Yc7xw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D.]

I have a graduate student working on making PHaRLAP work with Python for his master's thesis. He has been able to get the 2D raytrace to work, and he will be working on the 3D this semester. He will be defending his master's this Spring, so we should be able to release the python libraries by this summer.

73 Nathaniel W2NAF

> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > www.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fpxxgi0fxq98qd93%2Fbearingdx.htm%3Fdl%3D0&amp
> > > ;data=04%7C01%7Cnathaniel.frissell%40scranton.edu%7Caf992270f02e40
> > > 17ce7208d9dc27ef00%7Ca8edc49a41f14c699768a7f6d7c3b8c3%7C0%7C0%7C63
> > > 7782887549874883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
> > > joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=FUBinsu
> > > WCfk4ZL8%2BKq%2F6m55%2Btg5iirAK4U2jZBl39C0%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> > > Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fpxxgi0fxq98qd93%2Fbearingdx.htm%3Fdl%3D0&am
> > > p;data=04%7C01%7Cnathaniel.frissell%40scranton.edu%7Caf992270f02e4
> > > 017ce7208d9dc27ef00%7Ca8edc49a41f14c699768a7f6d7c3b8c3%7C0%7C0%7C6
> > > 37782887549874883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQ
> > > IjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=FUBins
> > > uWCfk4ZL8%2BKq%2F6m55%2Btg5iirAK4U2jZBl39C0%3D&amp;reserved=0>

> > > I'm using pharlap and can produce a ray trace like this one for
> > > 10.135MHz from me to VE3YX's bearing (53 degrees from me) Inline
> > > image pharlap also shows why 20M wasn't working too well for
> > > us....this pattern is probably similar in all directions.
> > > Makes me wonder about the homogeneity of the ionosphere at
> > > different heights and how it affects doppler and stability.
> > > Inline image
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 22:45 Netlogger start
> > > 23:00:00 CW ID -- start recording
> > > 23:01:00-23:02:00 -- 1 minute 10.135MHz +/- 100Hz -- Recommend set
> > > rig to 10.134, reference to 10.1345
> > > 23:02:00-23:04:00 -- Idle
> > > 23:04:00-23:05:00 -- 1 minute keydown again
> > > 23:06:01 -- test over -- stop recording
> > >
> > > 23:15:00 CW ID -- start recording
> > > 23:16:00-23:17:00 -- 1 minute 7.065MHz +/- 100Hz -- Recommend set
> > > rig to 7.064, reference to 7.0645
> > > 23:17:00-23:19:00 -- Idle
> > > 23:19:00-23:20:00 -- 1 minute keydown again
> > > 23:20:01 - test over -- stop recording
> > >
> > > #1 Everybody make sure your computer time is correct.

> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft
> > > ime.is%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cnathaniel.frissell%40scranton.edu%7Ca
> > > f992270f02e4017ce7208d9dc27ef00%7Ca8edc49a41f14c699768a7f6d7c3b8c3
> > > %7C0%7C0%7C637782887549874883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4w
> > > LjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;
> > > sdata=CVMNBDK1csH%2FamJ2Tk%2BKSZMslz%2FlV9fFEKFs4jF%2B7N8%3D&amp;r
> > > eserved=0

> > > #2 Rig should be on for at least 30 minutes without transmitting
> > > #3 If you have a Ref you need to ensure your RX PPM is correct --
> > > see the WWV codec PPM measurement Section 2.49 in

> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw
> > > ww.w1hkj.com%2Ffiles%2Ffldigi%2Ffldigi_4.1.15-help.pdf&amp;data=04
> > > %7C01%7Cnathaniel.frissell%40scranton.edu%7Caf992270f02e4017ce7208
> > > d9dc27ef00%7Ca8edc49a41f14c699768a7f6d7c3b8c3%7C0%7C0%7C6377828875
> > > 49874883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM
> > > zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=4dozxkf11dYAoV3
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> > > 9874883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMz
> > > IiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=Wn%2BiIu5g%2BMgH
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Dave - WØLEV
> > Just Let Darwin Work
> >
> >
> > --

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> Repair. Re-use. Re-purpose. Recycle.
>
> --

> Please follow the HamSCI Community Participation Guidelines at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhamsci.org%2Fhamsci-community-participation-guidelines&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cnathaniel.frissell%40scranton.edu%7Caf992270f02e4017ce7208d9dc27ef00%7Ca8edc49a41f14c699768a7f6d7c3b8c3%7C0%7C0%7C637782887549874883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=Wn%2BiIu5g%2BMgHizsUOgpr6xy4NGbV%2BnLrUvMlIP9n16U%3D&amp;reserved=0.

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[Gerald Creager]

Great news, Nathaniel. Looking forward to seeing the product!

gerry

Capt Gerry Creager, CAP

National Health Services Advisory Group 

(C) 979.229.5301
Civil Air Patrol, U.S. Air Force Auxiliary
gocivilairpatrol.com

Southwest Region -- Civil Air Patrol  https://swrcap.com/

[Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D.]

You’re welcome! I’m hoping we can have a talk about it at the HamSCI workshop.

 

73 Nathaniel

 

From: ham...@googlegroups.com <ham...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Gerald Creager
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:31 AM
To: Unknown <ham...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: ray trace request [was: [HamSCI] ppFMT#14 2020-09-15]

 

Great news, Nathaniel. Looking forward to seeing the product!

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[Steve Kaeppler]

Hi All-

I have stayed quiet on this since I have been busy as of late with
work. However, I could also do some ray tracing simulations with
Phalarp. I have a matlab license and Phalarp working on my computer.
The question is the start location, date and time, and frequencies of
interest. I could do some runs through IRI.

Excited to hear about the progress Nathaniel!

73,
Steve
AD0AE

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 10:33 AM Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D.

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Steve Kaeppler
steve.k...@gmail.com
cell: 262-707-0932
Amateur Radio Call: AD0AE/6