10M Meteor Scatter

[Joe Dzekevich]

Well, I am starting to do some 10M, MSK144, meteor scatter on 28.145 MHz.  I thought I would create a note so as other HamSCI folks get their toes into the either, they can also share some operating notes as well.

March 14 2025 around 1145 UTC

I put out a note onto Ping Jockey Central that said:  CQ 28.145  MSK144 Odd

Here I told them I was on, calling CQ, and I gave the mode as MSK144 so it would not be confused with JT9-G Fast which they use to work. On 6M and 2M, no need to mention the mode.  I am just using a TS590SG around 70W into a 135 FT OCF Dipole.

AD4TJ started calling me.  I received 4 nice pings at signals 03, 02, 00, 02

He never heard me, so no QSO.  He increased his power to 450W and called CQ.

I copied another 4 pings at signals -01, 00, 01, 07.

Pictures are attached of the decodes, some pings, his location.  More interesting, I made a picture comparing 10M ping bursts to 6M ping bursts.  Both band's pings show the decaying burst in their right hand tails, the 10M pings where much better than what I see on 6M.  A 10M ping burst looks to be 2x to 3x as wide as a 6M ping burst, which I expected to see, but just not that much.

When I posted my CQ note in Ping Jockey Central, there was immediate interest and some statins moved right down to 10M.  I also gave them a heads-up a few days ago that HamSCI is planning a meteor scatter event, and I think we are going to get some good interest.

So, feel free to get onto MSK144 meteor scatter and make some noise or just listen.  Even if you just listen, your PSK  Reporter export will tell other stations that you heard them, even if no QSO is done.

Joe, K1YOW

[Mark Phillips]

With 10M being wide open lately, how do you know you are being heard via MS? I could potentially hear you directly. One of your examples shows a path of about 450 miles. That's well within my average 10M range. 

Mark / NI2O

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[Joe Dzekevich]

Hi Mark,

 

Here is what I do - before going on, I check DX Maps.  There were no other QSOs shown on the 10M North American map, so no E layer, no F2, in North America.  The next thing is to look at the waterfall graphs in MSK144.  The graph only shows pings.  If there were E layer, F2 layer or Tropo, I usually see an extended MSK144 digital data line and there are usually multiple decodes of a station in the same 15S time slot as well.

 

What you are asking about is exactly a downfall of meteor scatter on 10M, and sometimes 6M as well - when there is E and F2 layer, Tropo, etc, those signals can QRM you when you are listening in your 15S slot.  If I see E or F2 layer stuff, I do not even bother with meteor scatter on the selected band.

 

So in this case - the graphs showed nice single meteor scatter pings for the decodes.

 

Joe, K1YOW

 

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[Joe Dzekevich]

Ah the joys of pictures, LOL. In the meteor scatter picture between 10M and 6M, I had labels in there, but black text on a black background, does not show up, LOL.

Here is an updated picture.

Joe, K1YOW

[Bruce Crandall]

Good answer, Joe.  Great process.  Thanks.  I was going to ask Mark what time of day he's referring to since we're focusing effort around early AM hours when 10M is normally fairly dead.  I'll add that the experiments over the next several weeks, which are now happening daily with PJC and FR6M coordination, word of mouth, etc., are helping to baseline 10M MS in the early hours; and when the Lyrids arrive we should expect to see more contacts.  Then we should have a much better baseline.

We need as many ops as we can get, so spread the word.

This is some PSK from the 8th - first day of experiments.

Bruce, KN4GDX

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73

[David Eckhardt]

I'm an old decrepit fossil (78.33.... YO) who used to get up around 0430 local (Mountain time) when working.  I'm now retired and those wee, dark, cold, and foreboding hours of the morning are no longer allowed in my awake and life patterns! 

All of us should know meteors are best from 0100 through roughly 0600 local time.  However, they randomly occur throughout the daytime hours.  I've been listening to meteors from "sources of opportunity" for some 30+ years and can confirm that statement.  Yes, I realize daytime hours are the best for E and F2, but......  If we listen as well as port the audio to a PC/laptop running MSK144, we can surely distinguish between E / F2 and a meteor ping.  If not, we haven't been listening to meteors long enough😗🙂🌝.  Sure, local noon to 1800 are the worst, but still, randoms occur all day.  

Therefore, could we establish a few windows for us old decrepit fossils to also give it a try - please?  I presently have the Icom 7300 parked on 28.145 using my 450-foot doublet fed with balanced line.  Once inside where it's warm here in Northern Colorado, I have a home brew differential matching network followed by a home brew common mode choke feeding the 7300 (listening only at present).  40  16  36.80 N,     105  13  0.16 W    (± a few 10's of feet per GPS).

Dave - WØLEV     

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Dave - WØLEV

[Bob Confrey]

Thank Joe!  Great info.  10M seems a lot more doable to me.  Watts are easier to come by on 10M.  

I'm also part of the QRSSKNIGHTS group.  Andy, G0FTD and friends in the UK have observed MS pings with powers in the 100mW range frequently on 10M.

I did not think that possible but they are doing it.  

I have a ringo for 10M up now so will give it a go. 

Keep us posted on your results.

Bob

WA1EDJ

EM83du

On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 11:43 AM Joe Dzekevich <joedze...@charter.net> wrote:

[Bruce Crandall]

Dave - if you can, follow the thread on Front Range Six Meter groups.io.

We're exchanging plans there.  Or watch PJC mornings.

The plan for March is to ramp up 10M operator interest, especially on Sat AM; and notionally 6-9EDT; 4-7MDT.  In mid April with the Lyrids, we should have enough operators to generate some stats on PSK Reporter; and help drive the plans for the HamSci project (hamsci.org) looking at MS comparisons of 10M and 6M for the Aug/Dec showers.  That's the current plan.

Contact me directly on kn4...@gmail.com if you have any questions or want further background.

Bruce KN4GDX

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73

[WILLIAM n SUSIE ENGELKE]

Has anyone worked a full QSO (signal reports in both directions) using meteor scatter on 10M yet?   -73- Bill, AB4EJ

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[Bill Engelke]

During Alabama's outbreak of tornadoes the other day, while I was at the HamSCI workshop, my tower had a brush with death!

I don't see any damage to the antennas (but have to take them off & inspect to know for sure) - I think the top section can be repaired or replaced.

The dock and boat were not so lucky:

Unbelievably, at our house, NO FATALITIES, NO INJURIES, NO DAMAGE TO HOUSE OR VEHICLES!  Lots of huge trees down though.

This one was almost 2 feet in diameter:

Missed the house by inches:

Missed the LRSC* by inches as well.   * Little Red Sports Car, not in the photo

Now we will find out how well Allstate's claims of great coverage hold up.... 

"You could end up payin' for this yourself!"

-73- Bill   AB4EJ

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From: ham...@googlegroups.com <ham...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of WILLIAM n SUSIE ENGELKE <enge...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2025 10:30 AM
To: ham...@googlegroups.com <ham...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [HamSCI] 10M Meteor Scatter

 

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[David G. McGaw]

Hi Bill,

So glad to hear that the damage was limited and no one was hurt.

73,

David N1HAC

On 3/17/25 12:39 PM, Bill Engelke wrote:

During Alabama's outbreak of tornadoes the other day, while I was at the HamSCI workshop, my tower had a brush with death!

I don't see any damage to the antennas (but have to take them off & inspect to know for sure) - I think the top section can be repaired or replaced.

The dock and boat were not so lucky:

Unbelievably, at our house, NO FATALITIES, NO INJURIES, NO DAMAGE TO HOUSE OR VEHICLES!  Lots of huge trees down though.

This one was almost 2 feet in diameter:

Missed the house by inches:

Missed the LRSC* by inches as well.   * Little Red Sports Car, not in the photo

Now we will find out how well Allstate's claims of great coverage hold up.... 

[Ron KF7ZN]

So sorry to see that damage but so glad that what matters most is safe. It gives all of us the chace to take a moment and reflect on the true gifts of our lives.

Have a nice day!

Ron Wilcox KF7ZN

RN, BHS, BSN, CCM

HamSCI/NASA Citizen Science

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[Bruce Crandall]

Yes.  K1HTV with several completed contacts into midwest.  He's using a yagi.  I've had copies-only to midwest in both directions, but no QSO, using an OCF.

The key is to get enough operators during the early morning hours to get data.

We continue to request 10M MSK ops on Saturday mornings leading to the Lyrids.

Bruce

KN4GDX

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73

[Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D.]

Hi Bill,

 

I am so sorry about your antenna and boat! But as others have said, I am so glad you, your family, and house are safe.

 

It was great seeing you this weekend. Good luck with everything!

 

73 de Nathaniel W2NAF

 

From: ham...@googlegroups.com <ham...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ron KF7ZN
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2025 12:59 PM
To: ham...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [HamSCI] Alabama Tornadoes versus my tower

 

WARNING: This message originated from a source outside of the university.

 

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[Bob Confrey]

Joe,

I'm getting 10M MSK144 going.   WSJT-X is on 28.145, using a QDX-M 10M with Ringo Ranger.  For now I'm just trying to get some decodes

to see it work.  I've set WSJT-X according to the manual with Normal depth decoding, FTol 100 RX 1500.  I had to use auto level to see some waterfall.

Receiving is at about 30%.

Only got this going this afternoon so not getting decodes at this time of day.  Some blobs show up on the WF but maybe odd sigs.

I will have it running in the mornings to catch a decode.  My frequency accuracy should be good with the QDX-M using a TCXO.

if it looks promising, I can move over to the Yeasu 757 for better TX power.

Bob

WA1EDJ

EM83du

On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 11:43 AM Joe Dzekevich <joedze...@charter.net> wrote:

[AC4FD Randy]

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone is still monitoring this discussion and what success you've had.  My daughter and I are planning to participate on the 10M side, and it's only 2 weeks away for the Persids, as well as we have a minor peak today. I have been doing some testing with my long wire, but will have a new antenna up for the shower on the 11th/12th.

Good luck, everyone.

73

Randy

AC4FD

[Aldo Perich]

Hello everyone.
Have any of you heard something like this this morning?
Sometimes it is a clear signal and sometimes it is a low signal, but has the same time.

This is the time I heard this "bip"
Waiting your comments,

73 de OA4DPM
Aldo A. Perich

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[Bruce Crandall]

Aldo - nope, never seen anything like that; and it's definitely spooky, HI.  Aside from the audio, maybe some device RF nearby is hitting your Rx every two seconds.  I would suspect maybe an airport, or similar radar with enough power to overload your Rx frontend.  Looks like you are near the coast - maybe ship radar.

For Randy - definitely a) make CQs with your wire on 10M; and b) otherwise be in receive mode as much as possible to capture traffic and report it on PSK/R.  WE NEED MONITORS! to help other active hams on 10M MSK to know when their signals are getting out.  Do this as much as you can; as often as you can. Most active times are prior to sunrise and shortly after; until the F2 kicks in on 10M.  In August there were MSK hams active around midnite, as well.

73

KN4GDX

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73

[Gregory Urbiel]

I'll have my 10 meter and 6 meter MSK monitors up fulltime sometime after the FMT this week.

73

Greg

KD8RV

EN82mj92

[Aldo Perich]

Dear Bruce,
Thank you for your prompt reply. I am located approximately 20 km from the nearest airport and 24 km from the nearest seaport in the city of Lima. I would like to rule out the possibility of a radar entering my station with that pattern. I have ferrite filters and toroids on all the wiring in my station and surrounding equipment, and until yesterday, I didn't have this pattern. I hope it disappears soon.

73 from OA4DPM
Aldo

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[Bruce Crandall]

Hi, Aldo - the distances make it less likely.  I also wonder about radars that may be in the mountains.  Instead of airport-based radars, they would be regional control radars.  Also, perhaps weather radars.  The period suggests that.  But because you haven't seen it before yesterday, it's even more mysterious, unless it's a new installation.  Good hunting of the source! Let us know if it keeps up.  I thought about heavy equipment starting up, like in my house the heat pump.  But that wouldn't be periodic unless it was trying/failing to start a motor.

I'll ask around here for other ideas.

GL and 73.

Bruce 

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73

[Curt Nixon]

I was active during the last hansci event period on 10m aiming e and then se.  7 El lpda at 110ft about 6-800w.  Lit up psk reporter and could hear many out to 4-500 miles via troposphere.  Never heard a single 10m ping.  Hopefully the December period will offer more rocks.

KU8L

EN79

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[Aldo Perich]

Dear all,
a colleague from Spain told me that these are apparently fishing net beacons or buoys operating illegally in the 10-meter band, specifically around 28 MHz, which is causing the annoying beep I recently shared.

I'm going to look into it and file the corresponding report with the IARU Monitoring System (IARUMS) for illegal transmissions on amateur radio bands.

https://ei7gl.blogspot.com/2019/05/illegal-fishing-buoy-on-28029-mhz-3rd.html?m=1

73 de OA4DPM

Aldo

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