« Inégalités vécues : des constantes à redresser» par Teddy Thomas

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Pierre Montès

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Apr 1, 2009, 12:35:44 PM4/1/09
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Bonjour Monsieur Thomas,
 
Votre texte me touche.
Je l'ai posté sur mon blog, Le Coin de Pierre-Économie générale:
 
//
//
 
Cordialement,
 
Dr. Pierre Montès
1er avril 2009
______________________________________-


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Envoyé le : Mercredi, 1 Avril 2009, 10h38mn 29s
Objet : Merci d'aider a diffuser ce texte

Inégalités vécues : des constantes à redresser

 

par Teddy Thomas

 

Un correspondant m'a écrit, photos à l'appui, après la lecture de mon dernier article sur les inégalités sociales, pour me faire part de son indignation face à l'incurie des dirigeants haïtiens actuels. Les vues qu'il avait lui-même prises sur la route de Pétionville présentaient un spectacle écologique frappant. Il dit qu'il n'avait « pas de mots pour exprimer [sa] tristesse et [sa] colère... contre ce gouvernement de laisser-aller ». Presque en même temps, un autre lecteur m'a retransmis un courriel reçu d'un visiteur étranger récemment rentré d'Haïti. Ce voyageur déclarait combien il avait été choqué par ce qu'il y avait vu. Paradoxalement, il s'était attendu au spectacle de misère, mais ce qui l'avait vraiment étonné, c'étaient les richesses qui s'étalaient à côté de la pauvreté.

 

Non loin de nous, en Guadeloupe et en Martinique , les images de ces derniers mois ont mis en avant la colère des descendants d'esclaves, fatigués d'être exploités par les Békés, descendant des anciens maîtres blancs constituant encore les couches les plus fortunées de ces départements d'outre-mer français. Notons qu'en 1848, lors de l'abolition de l'esclavage dans ces îles voisines d'Haïti, la France avait dédommagé les propriétaires pour la perte de leurs esclaves sans octroyer la moindre compensation à ces derniers, laissés comme main-d'oeuvre dont l'exploitation était à continuer. Rappelons aussi qu'en Haïti, après avoir été envoyée au diable par Christophe, la France avait fini par obtenir du gouvernement Boyer qu'il accepte de payer une indemnité de 150 millions de francs. Ce montant était destiné au dédommagement des anciens colons dépossédés par la victoire de l'armée indigène sur les troupes napoléoniennes. Les mouvements indépendantistes en Guadeloupe et en Martinique semblent gagner du terrain et la France s'est, cette fois, empressée de dépêcher, avec les gendarmes, des négociateurs. Les Guadeloupéens se rappellent qu'en 1967, ce sont les balles françaises qui avaient noyé leurs revendications quand une centaine d'entre eux furent mitraillés dans les rues...

 

Un philosophe du nom de Parménide, précurseur du célèbre Socrate, soutenait que plus les choses changent, plus elles restent les mêmes. L'observation répétée de certains faits courants ou d'événements mondiaux, échelonnée sur plusieurs décennies, me donne parfois l'impression de vivre dans un présent continu. Je ne prétends rien apporter ici de bien nouveau, mais, dans ces lignes, je revisiterai quelques incidents dont les premiers datent de ma lointaine enfance. Ils me sont revenus en mémoire au constat de situations récentes concernant les inégalités économiques et sociales.

 

Le premier de ces incidents s'est déroulé un soir de Noël quand mon père, ma mère et moi rentrions de la messe de minuit. J'avais alors environ dix ans. Nous venions de traverser le Champ de Mars et longions à pied la Rue Capois lorsque nous rencontrâmes un homme qui balayait les rues. Mon père travaillait comme mécanicien au Service d'Hygiène et de Santé publique, dont le balayeur était aussi un salarié. Les deux hommes se reconnurent et mon père s'arrêta pour échanger le salut et les voeux de Noël. Après nous être séparés du balayeur, je demandai à mon père combien il devait gagner pour faire ce travail à cette heure, la nuit de Noël, pensant en moi-même qu'il aurait sans doute préféré la passer en famille. Il gagnait, dit mon père, le salaire minimum de l'époque, trois gourdes et demie par jour, soit un peu plus de 100 gourdes par mois. Une heure plus tôt, à la sortie de l'église, nous avions aussi rencontré et échangé des voeux avec le directeur du Service d'Hygiène et de Santé Publique, qui regagnait sa voiture avec sa femme et ses enfants. Ayant en tête la réponse obtenue au sujet du balayeur de rue, je posai la même question à mon père sur les appointements de ce haut fonctionnaire rencontré après la messe : trois cent cinquante dollars par mois. Avec le taux de change alors en vigueur (un dollar U.S. équivalant à cinq gourdes haïtiennes), cela représentait 1 750 gourdes, ou plus de dix-sept fois la rémunération du balayeur de rue ! Ces écarts me paraissaient déjà époustouflants, mais pensons un moment à ce qu'on entend dans le monde d'aujourd'hui. Chaque jour révèle, à l'échelle planétaire, de nouveaux excès des milliardaires de la finance et de l'industrie.

 

La question du garçonnet de dix ans que j'étais lors de cette rencontre-là peut paraître à première vue atypique. Elle s'explique par une prise de conscience antérieure même à ce soir de Noël, due à des circonstances plutôt particulières de mon enfance. Price Mars écrivait vers cette époque que la nation haïtienne était une société à deux vitesses. Pour ce que j'ai pu observer en Haïti,  je serais tenté d'ajouter que c'est un pays où se côtoient deux cultures, et je peux dire avoir grandi à cheval sur les deux.

 

J'ai été fils unique. Ma mère engageait d'habitude, pour la cuisine et l'entretien de la maison que nous occupions alors, des personnes qu'elle disait de confiance. Nous n'avions pas encore la télé et la radio était, en ce temps-là, un passe-temps des plus âgés. Quand je n'étais pas occupé à faire mes devoirs scolaires ou à jouer avec les rares enfants du voisinage, en dehors des moments passés avec mes parents, c'est en compagnie des employé(e)s de maison que je passais le plus clair de mon temps. C'était pour moi comme une famille de substitution et je me souviens particulièrement de deux femmes d'âge mûr qui m'ont, chacune à son tour, affectionné comme une seconde maman. Elles gagnaient un salaire de misère. Bien que le plus souvent nourries et logées, ces employées de maison s'organisaient, entre elles ou avec des collègues du voisinage, en mini-coopératives d'achat pour arriver à se payer un article vestimentaire de prix moyen. Groupées par trois ou quatre, elles recevaient chacune, à tour de rôle, la quasi-totalité de la paie mensuelle des autres partenaires, devant ainsi travailler deux ou trois mois pour réunir assez d'argent pour une paire de chaussures. Elles s'appelaient entre elles des associées. Selon des témoignages d'immigrés africains que j'ai eu l'occasion d'entendre, cette coutume existe encore en Afrique.

 

J'accompagnais souvent ces femmes au marché quand j'étais en vacances. Le dimanche après-midi, elles m'emmenaient parfois en visite chez leurs parents ou amies vivant dans les bidonvilles du Poste-Marchand, de Fort St -Clair (remplacé plus tard par la Cité du Bicentenaire), Sans-Fil et Saint-Martin. Le soir, on s'asseyait en groupe dans la cour pour se raconter des histoires folkloriques et jouer aux devinettes populaires (tire kont). En fin de semaine, je les rejoignais à la cuisine pour aider à préparer les repas et, quand il faisait beau, on m'apprenait à travailler dans un jardin potager au fond de la cour, à construire des tanbou marengwen (instrument musical de nos campagnes), à jouer au petit tambour rustique, à cirer les parquets, à balayer la cour, à manger du poisson salé reçu de la campagne et à élever des poulets. Les hommes m'amenaient parfois assister aux combats de coqs. Trop jeune pour qu'il me fût permis de miser dans les gadyè (locaux aménagés pour les combats de coqs), je possédais quand même un ou deux coqs kalite dont je m'occupais chaque matin, pendant les vacances, sous le regard attentif et amusé du personnel de maison, avec les soins qui étaient de rigueur pour ces futurs athlètes, et ce, doté du savoir-faire d'un vrai professionnel.

 

Plus tard, devenu officier, j'ai suivi à titre privé une formation de tire manchèt (forme d'escrime pratiquée dans les campagnes haïtiennes) étalée sur plusieurs mois. Deux instructeurs originaires de l'Artibonite, mais travaillant à Port-au-Prince , venaient chez moi pour les cours particuliers, qui ne manquaient pas d'attirer l'attention des badauds du quartier. Une fois par mois, le maître d'armes voyageait à mes frais de Desdunes, haut lieu du tire manchèt, pour vérifier mes progrès. Étant moi-même instructeur militaire, je comptais adapter et intégrer cet art dans le cursus des recrues à ma charge, pensant ainsi reconduire dans l'armée une partie du savoir-faire de nos valeureux combattants d'autrefois. Ce projet est resté un rêve de jeunesse.

 

C'est en vivant près de ces Haïtiens d'un autre monde, en apprenant leur mode de vie et en écoutant attentivement les conversations que j'ai pu apprécier leurs qualités, leur acceptation des autres, de la vie et de la nature, l'importance du travail manuel, le rôle central de la mère dans la vie affective (se manman ki fè pitit), ainsi que la primauté de l'être sur le paraître. Je peux encore dire que j'ai découvert chez eux un génie propre, malheureusement inhibé... Leur culture était celle des descendants d'anciens esclaves refoulés vers le pays profond, ceux-là qui ne revendiquent pas les Gaulois comme ancêtres. L'autre culture était celle adoptée par les descendants des anciens affranchis, et il n'est plus nécessaire d'en dire ici grand-chose. Elle offrait en priorité les chances économiques et sociales à ceux qui y étaient nés ou y accédaient. D'où la société à deux vitesses de Price Mars.

 

Un peu plus de dix ans après cette nuit de Noël, j'ai vécu un autre incident encore plus triste. Enseigne de vaisseau aux Garde-Côtes d'Haïti, j'étais invité à un pique-nique par un de nos collaborateurs, employé civil du Centre d'entraînement, qui habitait à Carrefour à environ quinze minutes de notre base de Bizoton. On se rencontrait ce samedi-là après le travail. J'étais l'un des premiers invités sur les lieux. La fête n'avait pas encore commencé quand j'entendis arriver en trombe un petit groupe de gamins qui m'exhortèrent à les suivre immédiatement. Un enrôlé des Garde-Côtes venait de se pendre à un arbre au pied de la colline. La route n'étant pas carrossable, je leur emboîtai le pas et nous nous précipitâmes en courant sur le lieu du drame. Je reconnus tout de suite l'homme qui gisait par terre, ivre mort, et ne réagissait pas à notre présence. Il avait le noeud coulant autour du cou, mais semblait avoir mal attaché l'autre extrémité de la corde à la branche dont il avait dû tomber. Il respirait encore, avec le regard dans le vide. Je le soulève, le charge sur mes épaules et redescends la pente aussi vite que possible jusqu'à ma voiture stationnée sur la grand-route. Transport d'urgence à l'infirmerie de la base, où l'on m'apprend qu'il n'est plus en danger. Je ramène les gamins qui avaient pris place dans ma voiture et c'est pour eux la fin de l'incident.

 

De retour au travail le lundi matin, je me rends à l'infirmerie pour avoir des nouvelles. L'homme y est encore en observation, et je l'interroge sur les motifs de son geste. Il s'explique : « J'ai été recevoir ma paie au service du personnel (appelé couramment "la Compagnie"). Après les énièmes déductions pour des articles d'uniforme que j'ai depuis longtemps payés, ils m'ont remis une gourde et vingt centimes. Je n'ai pas pu rentrer à la maison pour faire face à ma femme et à mes enfants. J'ai donc acheté du kleren pour me soûler et une corde pour me pendre. »

 

J'avais depuis longtemps eu vent de ce problème endémique dans l'armée, mais jamais encore je n'avais été témoin d'un cas aussi réel. Les coupables de ces vols bénéficiaient de la loi du silence, car dans l'armée il est très difficile de porter plainte contre un supérieur. C'est avec raison qu'on accuse François Duvalier d'avoir corrompu l'armée afin de l'affaiblir, se sentant menacé par cette institution. Je pense toutefois qu'une certaine forme de corruption y existait déjà avant Duvalier et aurait continué sans lui. C'était le détournement des fonds destinés à l'entretien des casernes, à la paie des enrôlés et à l'alimentation des prisonniers de droit commun présents à de nombreux postes de l'armée. Schéma aujourd'hui familier, où ceux qui possèdent davantage volent l'argent de ceux qui en ont moins. Exemple d'actualité aux États-Unis : les victimes de saisies immobilières, gravement induites en erreur par les banques américaines.

 

Ce type de corruption, comme on le sait bien, existait ailleurs dans la fonction publique en Haïti, mais son effet était particulièrement nocif et dangereux dans l'armée. En plus des conséquences économiques et sanitaires pour ceux qui ne pouvaient bénéficier pleinement des maigres ressources qui leur étaient allouées, cette forme de vol entraînait aussi la méfiance et le ressentiment des enrôlés à l'égard des supérieurs en cause, avec un potentiel de vengeance personnelle, voire de mutinerie. Je n'étais plus en Haïti lorsqu'éclata le mouvement dit des « petits soldats ». Bien qu'il fût essentiellement à caractère politique, je ne m'étonnerais pas d'apprendre qu'il se trouvait de ces officiers malhonnêtes parmi ceux qui furent ligotés par les enrôlés pour être livrés pieds et poings liés au Grand Quartier-Général, dont les soldats semblaient réclamer justice. Je dois préciser que la plupart des officiers que j'ai connus condamnaient ces détournements d'argent, même si d'autres s'arrangeaient pour se faire affecter à des postes où ils pourraient s'enrichir par ces moyens illicites. Si l'armée devait être un jour rétablie, une vigilance particulière devrait être exercée en ce sens.

 

Un jour, je me suis fait rabrouer à l'occasion d'un échange d'idées entre camarades. Nous étions une demi-douzaine d'officiers du même grade en train de converser sur des sujets divers, quand la question de solde fut abordée. J'ai alors évoqué l'injustice que je pensais voir dans les inégalités de salaires au sein même de l'armée. Nous côtoyions chaque jour des subalternes ayant deux fois notre âge, avec femme et enfants, qui arrivaient à peine à joindre les deux bouts. Mon opinion fut qu'il faudrait revaloriser le salaire des enrôlés, même si cela devait entraîner une réduction de la paie des officiers. L'un de mes collègues me prit à partie. Personnalisant la discussion, il me dit que je n'opinais de la sorte que parce que je n'avais pas de « responsabilités ». Plus tard, j'ai compris sa remarque en apprenant qu'il était l'aîné d'une famille orpheline de père, où ses jeunes frères et soeurs dépendaient de lui pour poursuivre leurs études. La vérité est néanmoins que nombre d'enrôlés devaient faire face à des situations familiales tout aussi difficiles.

 

Aujourd'hui, près de cinquante ans plus tard et père d'enfants déjà adultes, je n'ai pas changé d'avis sur la question. Sans préconiser une égalité rigoureuse des revenus, je pense encore nécessaire une réforme de salaires visant à réduire les inégalités, surtout dans les pays capitalistes. C'est une question qui devrait être étudiée et débattue de façon exhaustive par des personnes qualifiées et des parlementaires, à condition que ces derniers acceptent le principe pour eux-mêmes. Alors que disparaîtraient les disproportions de revenus jusqu'à présent entretenues, on continuerait d'avoir de bons médecins, de bons avocats, de bons ouvriers et de bons balayeurs de rue. La différence est qu'ils seraient animés tout d'abord de la volonté de servir et de leur conscience professionnelle.

 

Certaines avancées ont eu lieu au cours du demi-siècle dernier, mais malgré et peut-être à cause d'elles, la corruption et le crime subsistent par des moyens plus raffinés et les mains criminelles arrivent à se faire de plus en plus invisibles. Ce qu'on a observé pendant cette période dans le monde, c'est que même avec une augmentation en valeur absolue des revenus les plus bas, les écarts se sont creusés de façon exponentielle et l'inflation qui a résulté du gonflement des grandes fortunes a grignoté le pouvoir d'achat de la majorité. Tandis qu'augmentait la productivité des travailleurs, les patrons devenus de plus en plus gourmands empochaient la plus-value. À entendre les slogans des manifestations de rues aux Antilles, en Europe, aux États-Unis, et même les discours du nouveau président américain quant aux redressements nécessaires dans son propre pays, les lignes commenceront peut-être bientôt à bouger dans le monde. Une remise en question de la disparité des revenus est clairement à l'ordre du jour. Le temps des véritables réformes n'est peut-être pas si loin qu'on le pense.

 

Un monde plus juste et plus égalitaire n'est pas irréalisable. Il est important de garder les yeux sur les objectifs de justice et d'équité. Tel l'arbre qui ne saurait pousser vers le ciel sans le soleil, un peuple qui abandonne ses idéaux renonce du même coup à son épanouissement et à sa grandeur. Concluons, en ce qui se rapporte à l'avenir Haïti, avec ces mots d'un très dynamique lecteur et interlocuteur, qui m'écrivait dans un récent courriel : « Nous devons dénoncer de manière scientifique... nos pesanteurs historiques et culturelles, causes fondamentales de notre sous-développement. » Merci, mon ami.

 

Teddy Thomas

Adresse électronique : teddy...@msn.com

 

 

 

 


Antonio Pinchinat

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Apr 1, 2009, 3:45:15 PM4/1/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
 
Yet, talking about Martinique (and other french territories), so  many  haitians are proud to
 
speak " french " !
 
BECAUSE they have seen and/or met "un franc*ais".
 
Is slavery the cause of what just happened to Martinique?

 
Dramp


--- On Wed, 4/1/09, Pierre Montès <jfj...@yahoo.fr> wrote:

Granneg Latortue

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Apr 2, 2009, 9:51:43 PM4/2/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com

20 leaders who are mortal ennemies and killed millions of each other's soldiers and people.

 

Commusnist China sitting at table with ultra-Capitalist USA.

UK, France, sitting at table with Germany, Japan.

 

They sit down at a table, and in 48 hours, change the World's financial system.

Called co-operation for a better future.

 

Did they talk about past killings of millions???  NO

Did they wallow in 1994, 2004, and other past divisive events???  NO

 

Colonial Negative people look at the past. Claim they are victims, were killed en masse.  Need reparations.  Bring back old leaders.   Beggars.  Divisiveness.

 

Positive people look at the present and the future, do things in the present for a better future for the children and grandchildren!

 

No way to get around this. You either move forward with your best contributions, or you remain in 1804 1492 with your victim colonial attitude that has gotten

you NO WHERE since 1990.  Since 1915?  Since 1791?

 

Where are your plans???  What POSITIVE contributions have you done for the hungry????

 

Dont forget your past, remember it, but MOVE ON TO THE FUTURE.  The past dont make no bread for tomorrow's table!

 

Granneg

==================================

BEIJING, China (CNN) -- If money is power, China is now in a powerful position to play a critical role at the Group of 20 summit in London.

U.S. President Barack Obama meets with Chinese President Hu Jintao in London on April 1.

U.S. President Barack Obama meets with Chinese President Hu Jintao in London on April 1.

So powerful, in fact, that some analysts speak of a "G-2", referring to the first meeting between the new U.S. president and his Chinese counterpart on the sidelines of the G-20. What matters most in the G-20, some say, is Barack Obama and Hu Jintao's meeting on the eve of the summit. "This is a summit of symbolism, where the meeting itself is the message," said China analyst Victor Gao.

To be sure, the closest U.S. allies are Great Britain in Europe and Japan in Asia. But with its growing economic and military clout, China is now a major player at the G-20.

China "appears to be actively setting the agenda," said Glenn Maguire, economist at the investment bank Societe Generale. China is awash with cash, its economy is still growing and its banking system is solvent. It is seeking a bigger role as global powers seek to reshape the economic and financial framework.

The global economic crisis has shown just how codependent the U.S. has become with China. Video Watch how China is throwing its weight around before the summit »

For years, China has exported far more than it has imported, racking up a huge trade surplus and accumulating nearly US$2 trillion in foreign currency reserves. More than half of that money has gone to buying U.S. government debt. It's partly those Chinese dollars that have enabled the United States to keep its interest rates, including home mortgages, so low, helping create the housing bubble that burst late last year.

As America's biggest creditor, Beijing is now worried about its over-investment in U.S. Treasury debts. "We have lent a huge amount of money to the U.S.," Premier Wen Jiabao said last month. "Of course, we are concerned about the safety of our assets." He called on the Obama administration to "maintain its good credit, honor its promises and guarantee the safety of China's assets."

Washington has tried to reassure Beijing. "Not just the Chinese government, but every investor can have absolute confidence in the soundness of investments in the United States," President Obama said in response to Wen's worries. Still, Victor Gao said, "China is concerned that the massive printing of money by the United States will lead to massive inflation, which will decimate the underlying value of China's massive dollar holdings. Each dollar China holds now is hard-earned money mostly from the exports." Video Watch Gao relate China's perspective at the summit »

With some 40 percent of its growth reliant on the exports of its products, China's economy has been hit hard since late 2008, as U.S. and Western markets for Chinese goods shrank. Annual economic growth dropped from nearly 12 percent in 2007 to 9 percent last year. This year's growth rate could slump to 8 percent or lower -- potentially leading to even more factory closures and widespread job layoffs.

Fact Box

This week's London Summit brings together the leaders of the world's 20 largest economic powers, known as the Group of 20, to discuss the global financial crisis and decide new measures to set the world on a more stable economic footing.

To cope with this downturn, Beijing in November announced its own $586 billion stimulus package. It aims to encourage spending by Chinese consumers and businesses and create millions of jobs. But analysts say China cannot do it alone.

"It's almost impossible for China to engineer enough of an increase in domestic consumption to make up for the contraction in demand that we're seeing in Europe and the United States," said Michael Pettis, who teaches economics at Peking University. Put simply, Hu Jintao needs President Obama to succeed with his economic prescriptions -- and vice versa.

Such a congruence of goals is viewed positively in Beijing. "The degree of close U.S.-China cooperation in the process of coping with the global financial crisis will directly affect how fast the global economy can extricate from the difficult time," said a commentary in Global Times, a state-run Chinese newspaper.

Before the G-20 meeting, China's central bank chief, Zhou Xiaochuan, floated the idea of dumping the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency, replacing it with a super-sovereign international reserve currency. Zhou's proposal has received extensive support from other countries, according to political analyst Gao, who's also a key player in the private equity business in China.

Gao said: "It shows that the defects in using the U.S. dollar as the main reserve currency in the world are becoming more and more obvious, and more countries in the world are becoming more and more unhappy with the United States in its irresponsible way of handling its financial and budgetary matters, often at the expense of other countries."

But Peking University professor Zha Daojiong cautions against "over-interpreting" what Zhou seems to be saying. Instead of reducing the role of the U.S. dollar, Zhou may be asking for a greater role of the Chinese currency in "special drawing rights" (SDRs), an international type of reserve currency established in 1969 by the International Monetary Fund. SDRs operate as supplements to the existing reserves of IMF member nations.

"Rather than alluding to a goodbye to the U.S. dollar, Zhou may as well be making a case -- implicitly -- for including the (Chinese) renminbi into the list of currencies when the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank work on the SDR in the future," Zha explained.

Meanwhile, China hopes the G-20 meeting will reach a consensus on how to deal with the global crisis.

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Said Victor Gao: "It is equally important to identify the root causes, and make fundamental changes to the international financial system, including cross-border financial regulation, increasing transparency, bringing the hedge funds into the regulatory framework, enhancing risk management, and preventing countries from excessive and irresponsible financial and budgetary activities," Gao said. Pointing the finger squarely at the United States, he said China hopes the U.S. will learn from its mistakes to avoid a repeat of the crisis.

Before leaving Beijing for London, President Hu Jintao remained circumspect. "We will continue our contribution to international economic development," he said in an interview with Xinhua News Agency. He called for efforts to resist trade protectionism while also calling for a revamp of the international financial system.



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Francisque Jean-Charles

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Apr 2, 2009, 10:28:42 PM4/2/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Granneg,
I couldn't have said it a better. We are in 2009, were will Ayiti be in 2020?
Francisque
KNO

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:

zili danto

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Apr 3, 2009, 2:00:02 AM4/3/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com, grands...@yahoogroups.com, debana...@yahoogroups.com
The Truth Of Trickle-Down Economics
by Nicole Lee
NNPA Columnist
Originally posted 4/1/2009

http://www.seattlemedium.com/news/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=95460&sID=34&ItemSource=L

This week, the G-20, the 20 countries with the largest Gross Domestic Product, will meet to discuss the implications of the economic crisis. Both in the suites and on the streets, uncertainty and downright skepticism loom over the talks. President Lula of Brazil has already stated that the financial crisis has been caused by greedy profiteers from the U.S. and Europe.

Last Thursday, the Guardian reported him saying, “This crisis was caused by no black man or woman or by no indigenous person or by no poor person...this crisis was fostered and boosted by irrational behavior of some people that are white, blue-eyed. Before the crisis they looked like they knew everything about economics, and they have demonstrated they know nothing about economics.”

If that is true, it is ironic to me that those that have the least will suffer the greatest. Those countries whose businesses do not even trade on the stock market will reap the devastation of the market collapse even more harshly than those countries who have allowed the market to go unregulated for years.

NW Kidney AA Health Fest



Haiti is the perfect example of this paternalism and poor judgment. For decades, the U.S. and Europe have meddled in Haitian political and economic affairs. None of that meddling has resulted in prosperity for any sector of the society, and has only put basic necessities out of the reach of the world’s poorest people. Eighty percent of Haiti’s people are forced to live on $2 a day, 50 percent survive on a $1 a day or less. One in four children is chronically malnourished. Despite these grim statistics, Haiti is still forced to pay the World Bank, an institution that was supposedly founded for poverty alleviation, one million dollars per week in debt payments. These debts were incurred because Haiti was forced to adopt many neo-liberal programs, programs designed to liberalize trade and put basic services (e.g., water, utilities) into the hands of big business. Like many countries, the loans to Haiti were put into the hands of dictators who supported the interests of big business and had no interest in servicing the poor.

Dr. Paul Farmer, who lived in Haiti for over twenty years providing healthcare to the poorest of the poor stated clearly, “Haiti’s debt is both onerous and odious...[t]he payments are literally killing people, as every dollar sent to Washington is a dollar Haiti could spend on healthcare, nutrition and feeding programs, desperately needed infrastructure and clean water. Half of the loans were given to the Duvaliers and other dictatorships, and spent on Presidential luxuries, not development programs for the poor.”

Other countries have also suffered from the double speak and the purely ideological embrace of rabid unregulated capitalism. Around the world, the markets have been used to keep poor countries poor.

Vulture Funds, a term coined to describe hedge funds that buy the debt of poor countries in Africa and Latin America, are feasting from the inequalities of the world financial system. Simply put, Vulture Funds are extortionists who prey on the vulnerabilities of economically deprived countries who want to be able to enter the world market.

Vulture Funds have sued countries like Zambia for the full value of the debt plus ballooned interest and penalty payments. Like unscrupulous mortgage brokers, Vulture Funds have used both legal and illegal methods to coerce poor countries into payments that for many countries decimate their entire budgets for healthcare, sanitation and water.

While Lula’s comments may be politically incorrect, they embody the frustration of so many countries who have been intimidated into following the neo-liberal model, only to see it crumble at their feet. Instead of distracting from the failures of predictable paternalistic approaches, the West would be wise to listen to the voices from Brazil, South Africa, and beyond just the G-20, to find a solution with global recovery and benefits.

Nicole C. Lee is the Executive Director of TransAfrica Forum.


--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4595] G20 meeting and Haiti!
To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com

Granneg Latortue

unread,
Apr 3, 2009, 9:02:23 AM4/3/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
THEME OF G20 MEETING: Stability, Growth, Jobs.  Look for it behind Obama's head, or behind group picture.  THAT is what makes ennemies sit at the table.
 
Zili,
 
I did not say anything about trickle down economics.  It is a far right republican failed idea.
 
I said: If 20 ennemies who have killed each other in the past, and are as different as Communist China and Capitalist USA can sit down and agree on something,
 
WHY CANT STUPID HAITIANS SIT DOWN AT A TABLE AND AGREE?
NO PRECONTIONS.  NO PAST EVENTS AT TABLE, JUST THE PRESENT AND FUTURE.

 
These ennemies are past killers of each other, past colonies and colonizers of each other, past haters of each other.
 
USA killed millions of Chinese soldiers in Korea War 1950-1953.
China loans USA $2 Trillion 1990-2000
 
THEY SAT DOWN AT THE TABLE FOR 48 HOURS AND CAME UP WITH A COMMON PLAN.
Barack to visit China in 2009. Welcomed by the people.
 
Barack mediated between China and France to the last minute!
China is 1/2 happy, France is 1/2 happy.   Move on.
 
They did not spend wasted hours pointing out that this is what you did in 1492-1802-1915-
1991-1994-2004.   Looking for blame in the past is BS.  Looking to correct actions of the past is insane. You cant fix any incorrect past.
 
Dont forget the past, it guides you today, but dont regurgitate the past on the table.
 
LETS MOVE TO THE TABLE AND AGREE ON A DEVELOPMENT AGENDA. HAITI'S GREATEST ENNEMY IS COLONIAL EDUCATION THAT MAKE HAITIANS FEEL LIKE THE VICTIM.
"THEY" did this to "us".  We are weak victims, coui in hand.
 
Haiti is the recognized World leader in begging for foreign aid because we are the oldest "victim".  THAT is the educational and attitudinal change needed.
 
Granneg

Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:00:02 -0700
From: erzil...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4599] G20 meeting and Haiti!
To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com; grands...@yahoogroups.com; debana...@yahoogroups.com

</table

laure...@aol.com

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Apr 3, 2009, 9:28:14 AM4/3/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
LETS MOVE TO THE TABLE AND AGREE ON A DEVELOPMENT AGENDA. HAITI'S GREATEST ENNEMY IS COLONIAL EDUCATION THAT MAKE HAITIANS FEEL LIKE THE VICTIM.

I agree that we all need to sit on the table , set aside the colonial (master) teaching of hatred to start crafting an apolitic and non self-centered development plan for Haiti. Here is the beginning at www.haitiandiasporacongress.org

Best regards,

Bernier Lauredan, MD
Haiti is the perfect example of this paternalism and poor judgment. For decades, the U.S. and Europe have meddled in Haitian political and economic affairs. None of that meddling has resulted in prosperity for any sector of the society, and has only put basic necessities out of the reach of th e world’s poorest people. Eighty percent of Haiti’s people are forced to live on $2 a day, 50 percent survive on a $1 a day or less. One in four children is chronically malnourished. Despite these grim statistics, Haiti is still forced to pay the World Bank, an institution that was supposedly founded for poverty alleviation, one million dollars per week in debt payments. These debts were incurred because Haiti was forced to adopt many neo-liberal programs, programs designed to liberalize trade and put basic services (e.g., water, utilities) into the hands of big business. Like many countries, the loans to Haiti were put into the hands of dictators who supported the interests of big business and had no interest in servicing the poor.


Dr. Paul Farmer, who lived in Haiti for over twenty years providing healthcare to the poorest of the poor stated clearly, “Haiti’s debt is both onerous and odious...[t]he payments are literally killing people, as every dollar sent to Washington is a dollar Haiti could spend on healthcare, nutrition and feeding programs, desperately needed infrastructure and clean water. Half of the loans were given to the Duvaliers and other dictatorships, and spent on Presidential luxuries, not development programs for the poor.”

Other countries have also suffered from the double speak and the purely ideological embrace of rabid unregulated capitalism. Around the world, the markets have been used to keep poor countries poor.

Vulture Funds, a term coined to20describe hedge funds that buy the debt of poor countries in Africa and Latin America, are feasting from the inequalities of the world financial system. Simply put, Vulture Funds are extortionists who prey on the vulnerabilities of economically deprived countries who want to be able to enter the world market.

Vulture Funds have sued countries like Zambia for the full value of the debt plus ballooned interest and penalty payments. Like unscrupulous mortgage brokers, Vulture Funds have used both legal and illegal methods to coerce poor countries into payments that for many countries decimate their entire budgets for healthcare, sanitation and water.

While Lula’s comments may be politically incorrect, they embody the frustration of so many countries who have been intimidated into following the neo-liberal model, only to see it crumble at their feet. Instead of distracting from the failures of predictable paternalistic approaches, the West would be wise to listen to the voices from Brazil, South Africa, and beyond just the G-20, to find a solution with global recovery and benefits.

Nicole C. Lee is the Executive Director of TransAfrica Forum.

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4595] G20 meeting and Haiti!
To: hait i-na...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 9:51 PM

20 leaders who are mortal ennemies and killed millions of each other's soldiers and people.
 
Commusnist China sitting at table with ultra-Capitalist USA.
UK, France, sitting at table with Germany, Japan.
 
They sit down at a table, and in 48 hours, change the World's financial system.
Called co-operation for a better future.
 
Did they talk about past killings of millions???  NO
Did they wallow in 1994, 2004, and other past divisive events???  NO
 
Colonial Negative people look at the past. Claim they are victims, were killed en masse.  Need reparations.  Bring back old leaders.   Beggars.  Divisiveness.
 
Positive people look at the present and the future, do things in the present for a better future for the children and grandchildren!
 
No way to get around this. You either move forward with your best contributions, or you remain in 1804 1492 with your victim colonial attitude that has gotten
0A you NO WHERE since 1990.  Since 1915?  Since 1791?

 
Where are your plans???  What POSITIVE contributions have you done for the hungry????
 
Dont forget your past, remember it, but MOVE ON TO THE FUTURE.  The past dont make no bread for tomorrow's table!
 
Granneg
==================================
BEIJING, China (CNN) -- If money is power, China is now in a powerful position to play a critical role at the Group of 20 summit in London.
U.S. President Barack Obama meets with Chinese President Hu Jintao in London on April 1.
U.S. President Barack Obama meets with Chinese President Hu Jintao in London on April 1.
So powerful, in fact, that some analysts speak of a "G-2", referring20to the first meeting between the new U.S. president and his Chinese counterpart on the sidelines of the G-20. What matters most in the G-20, some say, is Barack Obama and Hu Jintao's meeting on the eve of the summit. "This is a summit of symbolism, where the meeting itself is the message," said China analyst Victor Gao.

To be sure, the closest U.S. allies are Great Britain in Europe and Japan in Asia. But with its growing economic and military clout, China is now a major player at the G-20.
China "appears to be actively setting the agenda," said Glenn Maguire, economist at the investment bank Societe Generale. China is awash with cash, its economy is still growing and its banking system is solvent. It is seeking a bigger role as global powers seek to reshape the economic and financial framework.
The global economic crisis has shown just how codependent the U.S. has become with China. Video Watch how China is throwing its weight around before the summit »
For years, China has exported far more than it has imported, racking up a huge trade surplus and accumulating nearly US$2 trillion in foreign currency reserves. More than half of that money has gone to buying U.S. gove rnment debt. It's partly those Chinese dollars that have enabled the United States to keep its interest rates, including home mortgages, so low, helping create the housing bubble that burst late last year.
As America's biggest creditor, Beijing is now worried about its over-investment in U.S. Treasury debts. "We have lent a huge amount of money to the U.S.," Premier Wen Jiabao said last month. "Of course, we are concerned about the safety of our assets." He called on the Obama administration to "maintain its good credit, honor its promises and guarantee the safety of China's assets."
Washington has tried to reassure Beijing. "Not just the Chinese government, but every investor can have absolute confidence in the=2 0soundness of investments in the United States," President Obama said in response to Wen's worries. Still, Victor Gao said, "China is concerned that the massive printing of money by the United States will lead to massive inflation, which will decimate the underlying value of China's massive dollar holdings. Each dollar China holds now is hard-earned money mostly from the exports." Video Watch Gao relate China's perspective at the summit »

With some 40 percent of its growth reliant on the exports of its products, China's economy has been hit hard since late 2008, as U.S. and Western markets for Chinese goods shrank. Annual economic growth dropped from nearly 12 percent in 2007 to 9 percent last year. This year's growth rate could slump to 8 percent or lower -- potentially leading to even more factory closures and widespread job layoffs.

Fact Box

This week's London Summit brings together the leaders of the world's 20 largest economic powers, known as the Group of 20, to discuss the global financial crisis and decide new measures to set the world on a more stable economic footing.
To cope with this downturn, Beijing in November announced its own $586 billion stimulus package. It aims to encourage spending by Chinese consumers and businesses and create millions of jobs. But analysts say China cannot do it alone.
"It's almost impossible for China to engineer enough of an increase in domestic consumption to make up for the contraction in demand that we're seeing in Europe and the United States," said Michael Pettis, who teaches economics at Peking University. Put simply, Hu Jintao needs President Obama to succeed with his economic prescriptions -- and vice versa.
Such a congruence of goals is viewed positively in Beijing. "The degree of close U.S.-China cooperation in the process of coping with the global financial crisis will directly affect how fast the global economy can extricate from the difficult time," said a commentary in Global Times, a state-run Chinese newspaper.
Before the G-20 meeting, China's central bank chief, Zhou Xiaochuan, floated the idea of dumping the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency, replacing it with a super-sovereign international reserve currency. Zhou's proposal has received extensive support from other countries, according to political analyst Gao, who's also a key player in the private equity business in China.
Gao said: "It shows that the defects in using the U.S. dollar as the main reserve currency in the world are becoming more and more obvious, and more countries in the world are becoming more and more unhappy with the United States in its irresponsible way of handling its financial and budgetary mat ters, often at the expense of other countries."

But Peking University professor Zha Daojiong cautions against "over-interpreting" what Zhou seems to be saying. Instead of reducing the role of the U.S. dollar, Zhou may be asking for a greater role of the Chinese currency in "special drawing rights" (SDRs), an international type of reserve currency established in 1969 by the International Monetary Fund. SDRs operate as supplements to the existing reserves of IMF member nations.
"Rather than alluding to a goodbye to the U.S. dollar, Zhou may as well be making a case -- implicitly -- for including the (Chinese) renminbi into the list of currencies when the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank work on the SDR in the future," Zha explained.
Meanwhile, China hopes the G-20 meeting will reach a consensus on how to deal with the global crisis.
advertisement
Said Victor Gao: "It is equally important to identify the root causes, and make fundamental changes to the international financial system, including cross-border financial regulation, increasing transparency, bringing the hedge funds into the regulatory framework, enhancing risk management, and preventing countries from excessive and irrespo nsible financial and budgetary activities," Gao said. Pointing the finger squarely at the United States, he said China hopes the U.S. will learn from its mistakes to avoid a repeat of the crisis.

Before leaving Beijing for London, President Hu Jintao remained circumspect. "We will continue our contribution to international economic development," he said in an interview with Xinhua News Agency. He called for efforts to resist trade protectionism while also calling for a revamp of the international financial system.


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</table




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Francisque Jean-Charles

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Apr 3, 2009, 12:12:50 PM4/3/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Dr. Lauredan,
Colonial education has not made me a victim. Perhaps, it has caused me for awhile to be a bit prejudicial among my peers and fellowcitizens. However, my love for God Almighty and my understanding for what is patriotism, humanism, indigenism, ayitianism and cultural roots have helped me reject those inferiority complexes such as stereotypes, prejudices, hatred, xenophobia, and jalousy for my countrymen and countrywomen and for humankind. I love and respect all humnan being because they are all God's creatures but I am entitled to be in disagreement with them without wishing them dead. Jean Bertrand Aristide has done horrible things to Ayiti. Politically, I do not share his views and categorically refuse to accept his as a good president to Ayiti. But I love, respect him and want to see him home. I do not share lots of Mr. Obama political views (gay marriage, taxpayers' dollars for avortment, etc) but I want him to be a great U.S. president. I'll praise him when he does great things like keeping Bush's policy on Irak but I will stand against him when I believe his policies will cause harms to the U.S., a country which I carry its citizenship in my heart.
However, Dr. Lauredan, Let's build a 50-year development plan for Ayiti. Agronomist Jean Erich Rene believes that we should nourish first. I add that we must stand against gratuity and mendicity. Yes, let's feed our people but they must plant trees in return. As you know, Dr. Lauredan, I have written a document which I believe is A National Plan of Education. Need it to be reviewed, make it better, etc.
With love
Francisque
KNO 

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, laure...@aol.com <laure...@aol.com> wrote:

sstf...@aol.com

unread,
Apr 3, 2009, 12:16:11 PM4/3/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Granneg,
When will you understand that people don't sit with people who don't have respect one for the other.  If I am uneducated and stupid why on earth would I want to sit at a table with you the educated and intelligent.  One sister who wish to remain anonymous said just because one has book knowledge, that does not mean he/she is educated. 

Sometimes I wonder about you Granneg.

Those people at G20 who are sitting at the table respect each other even when they are ideologically at different end of the spectrum.  Bush was a lot like you.  He did not sit with the NAACP for most of his tenure as president.  He would rather use his big guns rather than use diplomacy.  As a result, thousand of young Americans are dead.

Sometimes I wonder about you Granneg

Even if are Haitian by birth, I don't think you have a license to call Haitians stupid.  Having this negative attitude about a people does not qualify you to defend their cause.  Interestingly, many Haitians feel like you and try to fight the good fight for the Haitian people.  I say Haiti needs you like Haiti needs cancer.

Sometimes I wonder about you Granneg

Respectfully yours,
James
Dr. Paul Farmer, who lived in Haiti for over twenty years providing healthcare to the poorest of the poor stated clearly, “Haiti’s debt is both onerous and odious...[t]he payments are literally kil ling people, as every dollar sent to Washington is a dollar Haiti could spend on healthcare, nutrition and feeding programs, desperately needed infrastructure and clean water. Half of the loans were given to the Duvaliers and other dictatorships, and spent on Presidential luxuries, not development programs for the poor.”


Other countries have also suffered from the double speak and the purely ideological embrace of rabid unregulated capitalism. Around the world, the markets have been used to keep poor countries poor.

Vulture Funds, a term coined to20describe hedge funds that buy the debt of poor countries in Africa and Latin America, are feasting from the inequalities of the world financial system. Simply put, Vulture Funds are extortionists who prey on the vulnerabilities of economically deprived countries who want to be able to enter the world market.

Vulture Funds have sued countries like Zambia for the full value of the debt plus ballooned interest and penalty payments. Like unscrupulous mortgage brokers, Vulture Funds have used both legal and illegal methods to coerce poor countries into payments that for many countries decimate their entire budgets for healthcare, sanitation and water.

While Lula’s comments may be politically incorrect, they embody the frustration of so many countries who have been intimidated into following the neo-liberal model, only to see it crumble at their feet. Instead of distracting from the failures of predictable paternalistic approaches, the W est would be wise to listen to the voices from Brazil, South Africa, and beyond just the G-20, to find a solution with global recovery and benefits.


Nicole C. Lee is the Executive Director of TransAfrica Forum.

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4595] G20 meeting and Haiti!
To: hait i-na...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 9:51 PM

20 leaders who are mortal ennemies and killed millions of each other's soldiers and people.
 
Commusnist China sitting at table with ultra-Capitalist USA.
UK, France, sitting at table with Germany, Japan.
 
They sit down at a table, and in 48 hours, change the World's financial system.
Called co-operation for a better future.
 
Did they talk about past killings of millions???&n bsp; NO
</table


Francisque Jean-Charles

unread,
Apr 3, 2009, 12:28:51 PM4/3/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Granneg,
Why can't Ayitians sit down and plan somehting for Ayiti? sounds better. I am not really sure that Ayitians are stupid, most of us refuse to place Ayiti above their little pitty interests. Macoutes refuse to sit with lavalas. Lavalas won't accept military attaches on their table. The rightists (capitalism) and leftists (communism or populism) hate each other guts. Neither capitalism nor communism is good for Ayiti. Our motherland needs a social democrary (democracy through free honest elections between three political courants), a free market economy with a regulatory state, and massive investment in the social (basic needs for all like Maslow's Pyramid (Theory of needs).
We are not stupid, we suffer inferiority complexes. The US still offers a colonial-based education. The educational system was written for middle class white men. Desegragation (place a black boy near a white boy in class) has not helped. Obama is the president of the United States.
Francisque
KNO
Francisque
KNO


--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4605] G20 meeting & Haiti! Attitude change needed!!!!!!!!!
Haiti is the perfect example of this paternalism and poor judgment. For decades, the U.S. and Europe have meddled in Haitian political and economic affairs. None of that meddling has resulted in prosperity for any sector of the society, and has only put basic necessities out of the reach of the world’s poorest people. Eighty percent of Haiti’s people are forced to live on $2 a day, 50 percent survive on a $1 a day or less. One in four children is chronically malnourished. Despite these grim statistics, Haiti is still forced to pay the World Bank, an institution that was supposedly founded for poverty alleviation, one million dollars per week in debt payments. These debts were incurred because Haiti was forced to adopt many neo-liberal programs, programs designed to liberalize trade and put basic services (e.g., water, utilities) into the hands of big business. Like many countries, the loans to Haiti were put into the hands of dictators who supported the interests of big business and had no interest in servicing the poor.

Dr. Paul Farmer, who lived in Haiti for over twenty years providing healthcare to the poorest of the poor stated clearly, “Haiti’s debt is both onerous and odious...[t]he payments are literally killing people, as every dollar sent to Washington is a dollar Haiti could spend on healthcare, nutrition and feeding programs, desperately needed infrastructure and clean water. Half of the loans were given to the Duvaliers and other dictatorships, and spent on Presidential luxuries, not development programs for the poor.”


Other countries have also suffered from the double speak and the purely ideological embrace of rabid unregulated capitalism. Around the world, the markets have been used to keep poor countries poor.

Vulture Funds, a term coined to describe hedge funds that buy the debt of poor countries in Africa and Latin America, are feasting from the inequalities of the world financial system. Simply put, Vulture Funds are extortionists who prey on the vulnerabilities of economically deprived countries who want to be able to enter the world market.

Vulture Funds have sued countries like Zambia for the full value of the debt plus ballooned interest and penalty payments. Like unscrupulous mortgage brokers, Vulture Funds have used both legal and illegal methods to coerce poor countries into payments that for many countries decimate their entire budgets for healthcare, sanitation and water.

While Lula’s comments may be politically incorrect, they embody the frustration of so many countries who have been intimidated into following the neo-liberal model, only to see it crumble at their feet. Instead of distracting from the failures of predictable paternalistic approaches, the West would be wise to listen to the voices from Brazil, South Africa, and beyond just the G-20, to find a solution with global recovery and benefits.


Nicole C. Lee is the Executive Director of TransAfrica Forum.

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4595] G20 meeting and Haiti!
To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 9:51 PM

20 leaders who are mortal ennemies and killed millions of each other's soldiers and people.
 
Commusnist China sitting at table with ultra-Capitalist USA.
UK, France, sitting at table with Germany, Japan.
 
They sit down at a table, and in 48 hours, change the World's financial system.
Called co-operation for a better future.
 
Did they talk about past killings of millions???  NO

Did they wallow in 1994, 2004, and other past divisive events???  NO
 
Colonial Negative people look at the past. Claim they are victims, were killed en masse.  Need reparations.  Bring back old leaders.   Beggars.  Divisiveness.
 
Positive people look at the present and the future, do things in the present for a better future for the children and grandchildren!
 
No way to get around this. You either move forward with your best contributions, or you remain in 1804 1492 with your victim colonial attitude that has gotten
you NO WHERE since 1990.  Since 1915?  Since 1791?
 
Where are your plans???  What POSITIVE contributions have you done for the hungry????
 
Dont forget your past, remember it, but MOVE ON TO THE FUTURE.  The past dont make no bread for tomorrow's table!
 
Granneg
==================================
BEIJING, China (CNN) -- If money is power, China is now in a powerful position to play a critical role at the Group of 20 summit in London.
U.S. President Barack Obama meets with Chinese President Hu Jintao in London on April 1.
U.S. President Barack Obama meets with Chinese President Hu Jintao in London on April 1.
So powerful, in fact, that some analysts speak of a "G-2", referring to the first meeting between the new U.S. president and his Chinese counterpart on the sidelines of the G-20. What matters most in the G-20, some say, is Barack Obama and Hu Jintao's meeting on the eve of the summit. "This is a summit of symbolism, where the meeting itself is the message," said China analyst Victor Gao.

To be sure, the closest U.S. allies are Great Britain in Europe and Japan in Asia. But with its growing economic and military clout, China is now a major player at the G-20.
China "appears to be actively setting the agenda," said Glenn Maguire, economist at the investment bank Societe Generale. China is awash with cash, its economy is still growing and its banking system is solvent. It is seeking a bigger role as global powers seek to reshape the economic and financial framework.
The global economic crisis has shown just how codependent the U.S. has become with China. Video Watch how China is throwing its weight around before the summit »
For years, China has exported far more than it has imported, racking up a huge trade surplus and accumulating nearly US$2 trillion in foreign currency reserves. More than half of that money has gone to buying U.S. government debt. It's partly those Chinese dollars that have enabled the United States to keep its interest rates, including home mortgages, so low, helping create the housing bubble that burst late last year.
As America's biggest creditor, Beijing is now worried about its over-investment in U.S. Treasury debts. "We have lent a huge amount of money to the U.S.," Premier Wen Jiabao said last month. "Of course, we are concerned about the safety of our assets." He called on the Obama administration to "maintain its good credit, honor its promises and guarantee the safety of China's assets."
Washington has tried to reassure Beijing. "Not just the Chinese government, but every investor can have absolute confidence in the soundness of investments in the United States," President Obama said in response to Wen's worries. Still, Victor Gao said, "China is concerned that the massive printing of money by the United States will lead to massive inflation, which will decimate the underlying value of China's massive dollar holdings. Each dollar China holds now is hard-earned money mostly from the exports." Video Watch Gao relate China's perspective at the summit »

With some 40 percent of its growth reliant on the exports of its products, China's economy has been hit hard since late 2008, as U.S. and Western markets for Chinese goods shrank. Annual economic growth dropped from nearly 12 percent in 2007 to 9 percent last year. This year's growth rate could slump to 8 percent or lower -- potentially leading to even more factory closures and widespread job layoffs.

Fact Box

This week's London Summit brings together the leaders of the world's 20 largest economic powers, known as the Group of 20, to discuss the global financial crisis and decide new measures to set the world on a more stable economic footing.
To cope with this downturn, Beijing in November announced its own $586 billion stimulus package. It aims to encourage spending by Chinese consumers and businesses and create millions of jobs. But analysts say China cannot do it alone.
"It's almost impossible for China to engineer enough of an increase in domestic consumption to make up for the contraction in demand that we're seeing in Europe and the United States," said Michael Pettis, who teaches economics at Peking University. Put simply, Hu Jintao needs President Obama to succeed with his economic prescriptions -- and vice versa.
Such a congruence of goals is viewed positively in Beijing. "The degree of close U.S.-China cooperation in the process of coping with the global financial crisis will directly affect how fast the global economy can extricate from the difficult time," said a commentary in Global Times, a state-run Chinese newspaper.
Before the G-20 meeting, China's central bank chief, Zhou Xiaochuan, floated the idea of dumping the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency, replacing it with a super-sovereign international reserve currency. Zhou's proposal has received extensive support from other countries, according to political analyst Gao, who's also a key player in the private equity business in China.
Gao said: "It shows that the defects in using the U.S. dollar as the main reserve currency in the world are becoming more and more obvious, and more countries in the world are becoming more and more unhappy with the United States in its irresponsible way of handling its financial and budgetary matters, often at the expense of other countries."

But Peking University professor Zha Daojiong cautions against "over-interpreting" what Zhou seems to be saying. Instead of reducing the role of the U.S. dollar, Zhou may be asking for a greater role of the Chinese currency in "special drawing rights" (SDRs), an international type of reserve currency established in 1969 by the International Monetary Fund. SDRs operate as supplements to the existing reserves of IMF member nations.
"Rather than alluding to a goodbye to the U.S. dollar, Zhou may as well be making a case -- implicitly -- for including the (Chinese) renminbi into the list of currencies when the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank work on the SDR in the future," Zha explained.
Meanwhile, China hopes the G-20 meeting will reach a consensus on how to deal with the global crisis.
advertisement
Said Victor Gao: "It is equally important to identify the root causes, and make fundamental changes to the international financial system, including cross-border financial regulation, increasing transparency, bringing the hedge funds into the regulatory framework, enhancing risk management, and preventing countries from excessive and irresponsible financial and budgetary activities," Gao said. Pointing the finger squarely at the United States, he said China hopes the U.S. will learn from its mistakes to avoid a repeat of the crisis.

Before leaving Beijing for London, President Hu Jintao remained circumspect. "We will continue our contribution to international economic development," he said in an interview with Xinhua News Agency. He called for efforts to resist trade protectionism while also calling for a revamp of the international financial system.



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sstf...@aol.com

unread,
Apr 3, 2009, 5:12:50 PM4/3/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
"WHY CANT STUPID HAITIANS SIT DOWN AT A TABLE AND AGREE?"
                                                                                           Granneg
"
I am not really sure that Ayitians are stupid, most of us refuse to place Ayiti above their little pitty interests"                                                                                                                             Francisque Jean-Charles

Fellow readers do you see the level of self hatred ness that exist among some Haitians.  Mind you these are Haitians who claim they want the best for Haiti and the Haitian people.  One says Haitians are stupid the other one says, he is not sure Haitians are stupid.  Keep in mind this is a public forum.  People all over the globe are reading these posts.  How can I in good faith sit down with people like this to solve Haiti's problems?
What bothers me is the fact that the rest of you read this garbage and say nothing.  However if a negative comment is made about the Jewish people then Haitians become hot and bothered.
Am I in the wrong forum?

Respectfully yours,
James
In all fairness, Mr Jean-Charles did say later on Haitians were not stupid.


-----Original Message-----
From: Francisque Jean-Charles <lenov...@yahoo.com>
To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 12:28 pm
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4609] Re: G20 meeting & Haiti! Attitude change needed!!!!!!!!!

Granneg,
Why can't Ayitians sit down and plan something for Ayiti? sounds better. I am not really sure that Ayitians are stupid, most of us refuse to place Ayiti above their little pitty interests. Macoutes refuse to sit with lavalas. Lavalas won't accept military attaches on their table. The rightists (capitalism) and leftists (communism or populism) hate each other guts. Neither capitalism nor communism is good for Ayiti. Our motherland needs a social democrary (democracy through free honest elections between three political courants), a free market economy with a regulatory state, and massive investment in the social (basic needs for all like Maslow's Pyramid (Theory of needs).
We are not stupid, we suffer inferiority complexes. The US still offers a colonial-based education. The educational system was written for middle class white men. Desegregation (place a black boy near a white boy in class) has not helped. Obama is the president of the United States.
Francisque
KNO
Francisque
KNO

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4605] G20 meeting & Haiti! Attitude change needed!!!!!!!!!
To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 6:02 AM

THEME OF G20 MEETING: Stability, Growth, Jobs.  Look for it behind Obama's head, or behind group picture.  THAT is what makes enemies sit at the table.

 
Zili,
 
I did not say anything about trickle down economics.  It is a far right republican failed idea.
 
I said: If 20 enemies who have killed each other in the past, and are as different as Communist China and Capitalist USA can sit down and agree on something,

 
WHY CANT STUPID HAITIANS SIT DOWN AT A TABLE AND AGREE?
NO PRECONTIONS.  NO PAST EVENTS AT TABLE, JUST THE PRESENT AND FUTURE.

 
These enemies are past killers of each other, past colonies and colonizers of each other, past haters of each other.
 
USA killed millions of Chinese soldiers in Korea War 1950-1953.
China loans USA $2 Trillion 1990-2000
 
THEY SAT DOWN AT THE TABLE FOR 48 HOURS AND CAME UP WITH A C OMMON PLAN.

Barack to visit China in 2009. Welcomed by the people.
 
Barack mediated between China and France to the last minute!
China is 1/2 happy, France is 1/2 happy.   Move on.
 
They did not spend wasted hours pointing out that this is what you did in 1492-1802-1915-
1991-1994-2004.   Looking for blame in the past is BS.  Looking to correct actions of the past is insane. You cant fix any incorrect past.
 
Don't forget the past, it guides you today, but don't regurgitate the past on the table.
 
LETS MOVE TO THE TABLE AND AGREE ON A DEVELOPMENT AGENDA. HAITI'S GREATEST ENEMY IS COLONIAL EDUCATION THAT MAKE HAITIANS FEEL LIKE THE VICTIM.

"THEY" did this to "us".  We are weak victims, coui in hand.
 
Haiti is the recognized World leader in begging for foreign aid because we are the oldest "victim".  THAT is the educational and attitudinal change needed.
 
Granneg

Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:00:02 -0700
From: erzil...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4599] G20 meeting and Haiti!
To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com; grands...@yahoogroups.com; debana...@yahoogroups.com

The Truth Of Trickle-Down Economics
by Nicole Lee
NNPA Columnist
Originally posted 4/1/2009

http://www.seattlemedium.com/news/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=95460&sID=34&ItemSource=L

This week, the G-20, the 20 countries with the largest Gross Domestic Product, will meet to discuss the implications of the economic crisis. Both in the suites and on the streets, uncertainty and downright skepticism loom over the talks. President Lula of Brazil has already stated that the financial crisis has been caused by greedy profiteers from the U.S. and Europe.

Last Thursday, the Guardian reported him saying, “This crisis was caused by no black man or woman or by no indigenous person or by no poor person...this crisis was fostered and boosted by irrational behavior of some people that are white, blue-eyed. Before the crisis they looked like they knew everything about economics, and they have demonstrated they know nothing about economics.”

If that is true, it is ironic to me that those that have the least will suffer the greatest. Those countries whose businesses do not even trade on the stock market will reap the devastation of the market collapse even more harshly than those countries who hav e allowed the market to go unregulated for years.

NW Kidney AA Health Fest

Haiti is the perfect example of this paternalism and poor judgment. For decades, the U.S. and Europe have meddled in Haitian political and economic affairs. None of that meddling has resulted in prosperity for any sector of the society, and has only put basic necessities out of the reach of the world’s poorest people. Eighty percent of Haiti’s people are forced to live on $2 a day, 50 percent survive on a $1 a day or less. One in four children is chronically malnourished. Despite these grim statistics, Haiti is still forced to pay the World Bank, an institution that was supposedly founded for poverty alleviation, one million dollars per week in debt payments. These debts were incurred because Haiti was forced to adopt many neo-liberal programs, programs designed to liberalize trade and put basic services (e.g., water, utilities) into the hands of big business. Like many countries, the loans to Haiti were put into the hands of dictators who supported the interests of big business and had no interest in servicing the poor.

Dr. Paul Farmer, who lived in Haiti for over twenty years providing healthcare to the poorest of the poor stated clearly, “Haiti’s=2 0debt is both onerous and odious...[t]he payments are literally killing people, as every dollar sent to Washington is a dollar Haiti could spend on healthcare, nutrition and feeding programs, desperately needed infrastructure and clean water. Half of the loans were given to the Duvaliers and other dictatorships, and spent on Presidential luxuries, not development programs for the poor.”


Other countries have also suffered from the double speak and the purely ideological embrace of rabid unregulated capitalism. Around the world, the markets have been used to keep poor countries poor.

Vulture Funds, a term coined to describe hedge funds that buy the debt of poor countries in Africa and Latin America, are feasting from the inequalities of the world financial system. Simply put, Vulture Funds are extortionists who prey on the vulnerabilities of economically deprived countries who want to be able to enter the world market.

Vulture Funds have sued countries like Zambia for the full value of the debt plus ballooned interest and penalty payments. Like unscrupulous mortgage brokers, Vulture Funds have used both legal and illegal methods to coerce poor countries into payments that for many countries decimate their entire budgets for healthcare, sanitation and water.

While Lula’s comments may be politically incorrect, they embody the frustration of so many countries who have been intimidated into following the neo-liberal model, only to see it crumble at their feet. Instead of distracting from the=2 0failures of predictable paternalistic approaches, the West would be wise to listen to the voices from Brazil, South Africa, and beyond just the G-20, to find a solution with global recovery and benefits.


Nicole C. Lee is the Executive Director of TransAfrica Forum.

--- On Thu, 4/2/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4595] G20 meeting and Haiti!
To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 9:51 PM

20 leaders who are mortal ennemies and killed millions of each other's soldiers and people.
 
Commusnist China sitting at table with ultra-Capitalist USA.
UK, France, sitting at table with Germany, Japan.
 
They sit down at a table, and in 48 hours, change the World's financial system.
Called co-operation for a better future.
 
Did they talk about past killings of millions???  NO
Did they wallow in 1994, 2004, and ot her past divisive events???  NO
With some 40 percent of its growth reliant on the exports of its products, China's economy has been hit hard since late 2008, as U.S. and Western markets for Chinese goods shrank. A nnual economic growth dropped from nearly 12 percent in 2007 to 9 percent last year. This year's growth rate could slump to 8 percent or lower -- potentially leading to even more factory closures and widespread job layoffs.

Fact Box

This week's London Summit brings together the leaders of the world's 20 largest economic powers, known as the Group of 20, to discuss the global financial crisis and decide new measures to set the world on a more stable economic footing.
To cope with this downturn, Beijing in November announced its own $586 billion stimulus package. It aims to encourage spending by Chinese consumers and businesses and create millions of jobs. But analysts say China cannot do it alone.
"It's almost impossible for China to engineer enough of an increase in domestic consumption to make up for the contraction in demand that we're seeing in Europe and the United States," said Michael Pettis, who teaches economics at Peking University. Put simply, Hu Jintao needs President Obama to succeed with his economic prescriptions -- and vice versa.
Such a congruence of goals is viewed positively in Beijing. "The degree of close U.S.-China cooperation in the process of coping with the global financial crisis will directly affect how fast the global economy can extricate from the difficult time," said a commentary in Global Times, a state-run Chinese newspaper.
Before the G-20 meeting, China's central bank chief, Zhou Xiaochuan, floated the idea of dum ping the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency, replacing it with a super-sovereign international reserve currency. Zhou's proposal has received extensive support from other countries, according to political analyst Gao, who's also a key player in the private equity business in China.

Gao said: "It shows that the defects in using the U.S. dollar as the main reserve currency in the world are becoming more and more obvious, and more countries in the world are becoming more and more unhappy with the United States in its irresponsible way of handling its financial and budgetary matters, often at the expense of other countries."
But Peking University professor Zha Daojiong cautions against "over-interpreting" what Zhou seems to be saying. Instead of reducing the role of the U.S. dollar, Zhou may be asking for a greater role of the Chinese currency in "special drawing rights" (SDRs), an international type of reserve currency established in 1969 by the International Monetary Fund. SDRs operate as supplements to the existing reserves of IMF member nations.
"Rather than alluding to a goodbye to the U.S. dollar, Zhou may as well be making a case -- implicitly -- for including the (Chinese) renminbi into the list of currencies when the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank work on the SDR in the future," Zha explained.
Meanwhile, China hopes the G-20 meeting will reach a consensus on how to deal with the global crisis.
advertisement
Said Victor Gao: "It is equally important to identify the root causes, and make fundamental changes to the international financial system, including cross-border financial regulation, increasing transparency, bringing the hedge funds into the regulatory framework, enhancing risk management, and preventing countries from excessive and irresponsible financial and budgetary activities," Gao said. Pointing the finger squarely at the United States, he said China hopes the U.S. will learn from its mistakes to avoid a repeat of the crisis.
Before leaving Beijing for London, President Hu Jintao remained circumspect. "We will continue our contribution to international economic development," he said in an interview with Xinhua News Agency. He called for efforts to resist trade protectionism while also calling for a revamp of the international financial system.


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Michel Portal

unread,
Apr 4, 2009, 3:20:53 AM4/4/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Bonjour Granneg, bonjour à Toutes et à Tous

Votre analyse est juste, mais il ne faut pas confondre les dirigeants de 20 pays avec la volonte de leurs peuples colonises de l'interieur, comme vous l'avez ete de l'exterieur.

A mon avis, la voie la plus courte vers l'independance passe, avec l'education et le jardinage, par la creation, dans les banques centrales et commerciales locales, d'un reel pouvoir citoyen independant des politiciens de metier et des grands argentiers.
L'humanite a certes besoin de democratie politique veritable, elle a aussi un urgent besoin de democratie economique.

La crise porte un coup au systeme financier mondial, mais les chefs anonymes cherchent surtout je crois, a laisser passer l'orage, a creer des dettes, des tensions et des guerres car ils vendent les armes et ce qui va avec.
Je vous envoie l'etat actuel de ce travail en esperant qu'il vous sera de quelque utilite.

Michel Portal

CRISE et BANQUE  6.8    Pour une democratie pas seulement politique, mais economique

Un constat: deux voies sans issue:
- Dans leur ensemble les banques ont montre leur incapacite a gerer seules une liberte sans limites offerte par le systeme.
- Nous savons par ailleurs que mettre le systeme bancaire sous la coupe des etats et des gouvernements est une impasse.

Une proposition: Actuellement il n'y a presqu'aucune intervention democratique dans le systeme financier.
Des jurys de citoyens volontaires tires au sort pourraient constituer la colonne vertebrale d'un pouvoir economique enfin citoyen. Ils seraient plus efficaces pour veiller au bien commun et surveiller la finance que les agences de notation bancaires a la fois juges et parties. 
 Le nouveau pouvoir a creer s'interposerait entre celui des grands argentiers et celui des politiciens de metier en place. Je fais reference a la ligne suivie par la Deutsche Bank avec le DM du temps de la Republique Federale d'Allemagne.

Une opportunite:
L'image des banquiers est au plus bas et, de quelque cote qu'on se tourne, celle des representants politiques est desastreuse, c'est le moment d'imposer l'existence du tiers-etat qui paie et n'a pas voix au chapitre. 
Pour innover reellement nous devons retirer du pouvoir aux maitres des banques, sans en ajouter au personnel politique professionnel surcharge et cumulant les mandats.

Comment forger ce nouveau pouvoir?

Par un retour aux sources de la democratie: des citoyen-nes volontaires tires au sort et organise en jurys. Participation aux decisions et surveillance des banques centrales aux banques commerciales locales.
A priori, tirer des responsables au sort est surprenant, peu sage. Pourtant former des jurys de citoyen-nes reste la façon premiere  de faire entrer un regard public dans un secteur confisque a l'attention du peuple. Ici le systeme opaque de l'argent. 
Pour etre credible, ce pouvoir citoyen a besoin d'etre independant des etats et gouvernements, et independant des dirigeants financiers anonymes. Cette autonomie, la Deutsche Bank la rechercha apres 1945. Le D.M. devint une monnaie de reference superieure au dollar. Mais la tentative est restee sans appui populaire organise. Avec la creation de l'euro, la banque allemande a cede du terrain. 
En multipliant les conseils citoyens, - N'oublions pas que nous sommes proprietaires des fonds que nous deposons dans nos banques et par suite y avons droit de decision - en nous agrippant a toute la chaine bancaire nous pouvons creer un contre-pouvoir capable de poser le bien commun face a des interets, prives ou d'etats, sans limites parce qu'anonymes.
 
Les conseils financiers citoyens seraient constitues de citoyen-nes volontaires, renonçant a tout autre mandat electifs et tires au sort parmi la population. Independants des pouvoirs constitues, ce sont des pouvoirs constituants; du moins au debut. A ce jury, renouvelable par moitie ou par tiers, on ajouterait - mais en minorite - quelques personnes elues par leurs pairs deputes, senateurs, conseillers regionaux ou municipaux, etc... et quelques autres, elues par patrons et travailleurs du secteur bancaire du meme ressort. N'oublions pas que dans les banques elles-memes, il y a les personnes les plus competentes et conscientes des maladies de la monnaie (argent denree commerciale, credit usurier a la consommation, stock-options, secret bancaire, paradis fiscaux et patrimoines et remunerations extraordinairement inegalitaires entre membres d'une meme espece). Leur concours peut grandement aider le processus de democratisation economique; localement et a plus large echelle.
Si l'evolution necessaire du systeme financier se bloque apres ce premier G20 insuffisant, citoyens et gens de banques lucides peuvent amorcer des parades en s'appuyant sur des monnaies locales (il y en existe deja plus de 50). Monnaies a cote et non pas a la place des monnaies officielles afin de secourir les demunis proches, developper des micro-credits d'investissement et donner priorite a des projets de fort interet local ou planetaire.

Cette ligne politique necessite de respecter une ethique scrupuleuse. Les hommes forts en la matiere sont des citoyennes et des citoyens ordinaires, des gens libres capables d'oublier leurs interets personnels. Il y en a beaucoup a la fois volontaires et competents. Nous ne voulons ni d'une planche a billets populiste ou demagogique, sans reflexion sociale et ecologique, ni de banques centrales infeodees a des appetits secrets. L'argent ne travaille pas, ce sont des etres humains qui produisent directement ou derriere les machines. Les gens du systeme financier mondial l'ont completement oublie pour se servir.

Cette ligne a des appuis historiques. Par exemple en France. A partir de l'experience des prud'hommes (pour le droit du travail) et celle des jurys de cour d'assises (pour la justice), il est possible d'imaginer des conseils bancaires efficaces. Prud'hommes et jurys citoyens existent reellement, ce ne sont pas des utopies. Ils ont en commun d'etre animes par des non-professionnels et pour le second d'etre constitue majoritairement de citoyen-nes tires au sort. Malgre difficultes et oppositions, ça marche mieux que les tribunaux seulement professionnels.

 

Nous avons tous avantage a organiser un systeme monetaire enfin equitable avant que des obligations legales excessives suite à des coleres sociales justifiees mais destructrices, tuent la liberte que d'autres ont adore sans la partager.

La constitution d'un pouvoir economique democratique est a l'agenda mondial comme local des populations. Il ne doit plus quitter la scene avant une solution acceptable.  
Des pouvoirs citoyens constituants peuvent aussi concourir a la renovation des pouvoirs politiques devenus sourds a leur peuple.

Cordialement et polycitoyennement

Michel Portal
41 rue du Château
F 56400 Auray
Breizh / France / Ewropo



Le 3 avr. 09 à 03:51, Granneg Latortue a écrit :

Granneg Latortue

unread,
Apr 4, 2009, 2:59:48 PM4/4/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
"A mon avis, la voie la plus courte vers l'independance passe, avec l'education et le jardinage, par la creation, dans les banques centrales et commerciales locales, d'un reel pouvoir citoyen independant des politiciens de metier et des grands argentiers."

????
Les affaires banquaires sont tres compliquées et du domaine tres sensible.
La banqueroute d'une seule banque peu causer la panique dans de la République.
 
meme ne pays du désordre comme Haiti, Il y a un controle de la Banque Centrale, et des normes a respecter.  Le citoyen Haitien comprends-il cet environement??
 
A noter: Les politiciens et grands argentiers comprennent les finances et l'acces a l'argent, et ne savent rien du systeme banquaire.
 
Granneg

From: michel....@wanadoo.fr
Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4649] Re: G20 meeting and Haiti!
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 09:20:53 +0200
To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com

Michel Portal

unread,
Apr 5, 2009, 6:17:36 AM4/5/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Bonjour a Toutes et à Tous

Je vous adresse ces elements sur la monnaie. 

L'etude internationale de la question ne doit pas empecher l'institution de monnaies locales de resistance a l'exploitation des dettes.

Michel Portal


---- Original Message -----
From: Denis Bloud
To: Denis Bloud
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 3:49 PM
Subject: Nécessité de remplacer le dollar US par une vraie monnaie d'échanges internationaux : http://www.tdg.ch/actu/economie/abandonner-dollar-reference-universelle-2009-04-01

Bonjour,

Dans la Tribune de Genève d'aujourd'hui jeudi 2 avril 2009, p. 13, le professeur de macro-économie à l'université de Fribourg, Sergio Rossi (PH.D.) explique les raisons pour lesquelles il faut abandonner le dollar comme monnaie d'échanges internationaux, confirmant ainsi la thèse que j'expose dans ma page http://dbloud.free.fr/monnaie.htm, dont je viens de modifier un alinéa comme suit, concernant la 1re de mes 4 propositions de réforme économique:
 «Il faut abandonner le dollar comme référence universelle»
"1)      nationaliser puis unifier toutes les banques privées de façon que toute l'activité de crédit soit effectuée par la même organisation internationale, qui pourrait être le Fonds Monétaire International (FMI) réformé. La monnaie mondiale ainsi créée n'aurait alors pas besoin d'être fondée sur un étalon quelconque (comme l'or). Cette solution, autrefois proposée par John Maynard Keynes, qui proposait le "Bancor" comme monnaie internationale, avait été écartée en 1944 au profit des Accords de Bretton Woods, dont on constate aujourd'hui l'échec total. Ce principe fondamental est aujourd'hui repris par la Chine et par des économistes intelligents tels que le professeur Sergio Rossi, qui déclare dans la Tribune de Genève du jeudi 2 avril 2009 (p.13): "Il faut abandonner le dollar comme référence universelle." "

Merci de diffuser ce message car, comme le précise le prof. Rossi dans cet article: "Il existe quelques textes de référence, mais nous sommes minoritaires. Les idées de Joseph Stiglitz, Prix Nobel et président d’une commission de l’ONU pour la réforme de l’architecture monétaire et financière internationale, vont toutefois dans la même direction."

Bien sincèrement.

D.B.

| En marge du G20, la Chine, suivie de quelques économistes occidentaux, propose qu’un étalon monétaire véritablement international soit mis en place pour rééquilibrer le commerce mondial et limiter les crises financières.

zili danto

unread,
Apr 5, 2009, 10:47:26 AM4/5/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com, debana...@yahoogroups.com, grands...@yahoogroups.com
La sosyete;

Pa okipe moun sa yo. Bagay yo pa konplike jan yo vle fè w konprann li ye. Gran, gran pè mwen, yon Neg Mawòn, Neg Gunen, ki pa te janm pase ban lekòl loksidan yo, te di tout pitit li: Pa jan konte sou lajan yo...Jamè, jamè.....Se blan kolon ki kontwole lajan papye....se rezon sa a yo te vin pran gold reserve - lò - Ayiti!!!! Paske lajan pa yo pa vo anyen ditou, ditou, ditou..... Se papye li ye...se dèt li ye.  Yo itilize l pou kontrol le mond antye... Poukisa y ap recapitalize Haiti's Central Bank and then invested 197million of Haiti's monies in the US stock market, lost it and then Ban ki moon, collier, susan rice, and  Clinton wanna tell us - FORGET the past... Wait on the DONORS meeting!! Okeydokey. Mwenmen, m ap bliye hier, si yo remèt pè Ayisyen 197million yo fè volè a....Lè yo remèt nou lò yo te vole a, lè yo remèt nou dèt indepandans la, lè yo retire kò yo lan tè Desalin la... Lè yo kite Ayiti viv an pè. Mezanmi, gade video sa, si ou vle byen konprann bagay yo...

Please watch this and understand what MONEY is, how the bankers fleece you,
bail themselves out, siphon off YOUR real wealth and how the money system is
the most socially paralyzing structure in the world.  href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912"


--- On Sat, 4/4/09, Granneg Latortue <gra...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Francisque Jean-Charles

unread,
Apr 5, 2009, 1:33:40 PM4/5/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Granneg,
C'est l'argent de la drogue qui alimente les banques en Ayiti. Depuis le scande de narcodollars a Lavaud, les banques sont confrontees a de graves problemes de cash. On se demande si dans les mois a venir, on n'assistera pa a des "revocations massives".
Francisque
KNO 

Michel Portal

unread,
Apr 6, 2009, 11:17:55 AM4/6/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com
Bonjour a Toutes et a Tous

Pour le controle des banques, Ayiti n'est pas en retard. Les autres pays, a l'exception un peu de l'Allemagne, ne font guere mieux.
Etre non-alphabetise ne signifie pas inintelligence; le citoyen-ne ayitien-ne vaut tout autre citoyen des qu'il est considere.

Face au systeme bancaire opaque et anonyme, riches ou pauvres, Francais ou Haitiens employes des banques, "on" nous fait croire qu'on est illetre, incapable. Mais en fait des qu'on s'y attelle c'est un peu comme vendre ou acheter un veau ou des oeufs au marche.

Michel Portal 

Le prive est l'adversaire, ce n'est pas l'ennemi.

Il est indispensable d'aller plus loin que le G20. L'humanité a certes besoin de démocratie politique, elle a aussi un urgent besoin de démocratie économique et de démocratie financière. Les 1100 milliards de la FED sont tirés au profit des banques privées qui la contrôlent (Rothschild, Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Banque d'Angleterre... anonymes)


Le libéralisme sans frein est assassin, le confessionnalisme intégriste aussi (mais c'est hors sujet), l'étatisme sans limite de même: pensons à l'ex-URSS.

Toute valeur, y compris les plus certaines (liberté, bien commun) a besoin de limites (cf Albert Camus "Le premier homme").
Le pouvoir de l'individu doit être assuré et limité. Le pouvoir de l'état, même au nom du "Bien Commun", doit aussi être assuré et limité (et le pouvoir d'une église quelconque "au nom de Dieu" aussi, mais c'est hors sujet).

Question d'éthique, même si ça s'analyse comme une erreur tactique, je dis dès maintenant que je suis partisan de liberté. Et pas seulement après de possibles prises de pouvoirs artificiellement bolchéviques (majoritaires) par des groupes extrémistes manipulés par l'argent, en Europe.

Ce qui heurte dans le libéralisme n'est pas la liberté, mais la liberté sans limites et donc sans éthique.

Les banques centrales et commerciales privatisées ont un pouvoir illégitime et nous devons le leur ôter.

Mais le personnel politique actuel, nos représentants souvent choisis à travers des scrutins contestables (listes entières, vote blanc ignoré, proportionnelle excessive ou bafouée), grevé de cumuls malgré des sondages perpétuellement contraires, surchargé de responsabilités de leurs propres aveux, pas assez nombreux au total, trop bien traité en haut des échelles et trop chichement en bas (conseillers municipaux par ex; un vrai gisement d'emplois) n'ont pas l'autorité suffisante pour qu'on leur remette, en plus, un pouvoir sur l'argent... qui trop souvent les fabrique!

Nous avons besoin de constituer un nouveau pouvoir, un pouvoir citoyen autonome par rapport aux argentiers anonymes et par rapport aux "politiciens de métier" (analysable comme cléricalisation du politique).

Le pouvoir politique actuel, démocratique quand il ne sait pas faire autrement, confie les condamnations d'assises - tâche difficile s'il en est ! - à des jurés, citoyen-nes ordinaires, tirés sort, vous ou moi. A ces neuf personnes, on ajoute trois juges professionnels pour allier compétence avec... sincérité.

Eh bien soit, en adaptant cette référence aux finances, copions l'idée pour constituer des conseils, des jurys de gestion des banques centrales et des banques commerciales.

 1- On nationalise les banques centrales, elles-mêmes contrôlées citoyennement et en négociations quasi permanentes avec un FMI lui aussi contrôlé et géré avec des citoyens volontaires, tirés au sort et renonçant à tout autre mandat ou affaire.
 
 2- On ne nationalise pas les banques d'affaires, commerciales ou mutuelles. Leurs directions deviennent soumises à leurs sociétaires sur la base de: un humain égale une voix et non plus suivant le nombre d'actions ou de parts de chacun. 
- Les rémunérations y vont au maximum de la moitié au double de la norme (Les chefs ont déjà l'avantage d'avoir des métiers plus intéressants que leurs subordonnés et il est malsain pour eux, leur famille, leurs amis qu'ils travaillent trop).
- Les taux de crédit des prêts sont limités à un maximum (taux d'usure connu et enseigné dès l'école) fixé par un FMI rénové, lié à une ONU démocratisée (Deux poids, deux mesures pour le nucléaire international est insupportable).

Cordialement et polycitoyennement

Michel Portal
41 rue du Château
F 56400 Auray
Breizh / France / Ewropo


Le 5 avr. 09 à 19:33, Francisque Jean-Charles a écrit :

zili danto

unread,
Apr 6, 2009, 2:01:44 PM4/6/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com, grands...@yahoogroups.com, debana...@yahoogroups.com
Mwen voye Ayibobo pou ou Mr. Portal!!!

Woah, where have you been all of Haiti's life?

Mr. Portal, I am happy to read your post below. Thank you. I almost felt like answering in French because you made SO MUCH sense. Allow me to congratulate you on your lucidity and sophisticated mastery of the critical matter you've just deconstructed.  You dream of a world I'd like to live in - un FMI rénové, lié à une ONU démocratisée! But can one reform what is illegitimate and ought to be simply eliminated and a new power structure constructed? One not based on the values of hoarding and profit making at all social and environmental cost.  Still, I am so very glad I took the time to read this. What a very welcome surprise amidst the unintelligent nonsense one must sift through from the pèpè-educated, schooled-Haitians. I wish only wish I had more time to learn more from you and about your ideas and insights. This post merits the sort of focussed study and understanding I've never before come across in these mostly coup d'etat folks Haiti forums.  Thanks for the surprise. You give me hope. Pour rêver un nouveau monde est divin. Chapo ba. mesi anpil. Mwen telman kontan rankontre yon homme Ayisyen ak lepri pa li.

Mwen soulinye anpil paati de sa ou ekri a:


Etre non-alphabetise ne signifie pas inintelligence; le citoyen-ne ayitien-ne vaut tout autre citoyen des qu'il est considere.

Il est indispensable d'aller plus loin que le G20. L'humanité a certes besoin de démocratie politique, elle a aussi un urgent besoin de démocratie économique et de démocratie financière. Les 1100 milliards de la FED sont tirés au profit des banques privées qui la contrôlent (Rothschild, Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Banque d'Angleterre... anonymes)

Le libéralisme sans frein est assassin, le confessionnalisme intégriste aussi (mais c'est hors sujet), l'étatisme sans limite de même: pensons à l'ex-URSS.

Toute valeur, y compris les plus certaines (liberté, bien commun) a besoin de limites (cf Albert Camus "Le premier homme").
Le pouvoir de l'individu doit être assuré et limité. Le pouvoir de l'état, même au nom du "Bien Commun", doit aussi être assuré et limité (et le pouvoir d'une église quelconque "au nom de Dieu" aussi, mais c'est hors sujet).

Question d'éthique, même si ça s'analyse comme une erreur tactique, je dis dès maintenant que je suis partisan de liberté. Et pas seulement après de possibles prises de pouvoirs artificiellement bolchéviques (majoritaires) par des groupes extrémistes manipulés par l'argent, en Europe.

Ce qui heurte dans le libéralisme n'est pas la liberté, mais la liberté sans limites et donc sans éthique.

Les banques centrales et commerciales privatisées ont un pouvoir illégitime et nous devons le leur ôter.

Mais le personnel politique actuel, nos représentants souvent choisis à travers des scrutins contestables (listes entières, vote blanc ignoré, proportionnelle excessive ou bafouée), grevé de cumuls malgré des sondages perpétuellement contraires, surchargé de responsabilités de leurs propres aveux, pas assez nombreux au total, trop bien traité en haut des échelles et trop chichement en bas (conseillers municipaux par ex; un vrai gisement d'emplois) n'ont pas l'autorité suffisante pour qu'on leur remette, en plus, un pouvoir sur l'argent... qui trop souvent les fabrique!

Nous avons besoin de constituer un nouveau pouvoir, un pouvoir citoyen autonome par rapport aux argentiers anonymes et par rapport aux "politiciens de métier" (analysable comme cléricalisation du politique).

Le pouvoir politique actuel, démocratique quand il ne sait pas faire autrement, confie les condamnations d'assises - tâche difficile s'il en est ! - à des jurés, citoyen-nes ordinaires, tirés sort, vous ou moi. A ces neuf personnes, on ajoute trois juges professionnels pour allier compétence avec... sincérité.

Eh bien soit, en adaptant cette référence aux finances, copions l'idée pour constituer des conseils, des jurys de gestion des banques centrales et des banques commerciales.

 1- On nationalise les banques centrales, elles-mêmes contrôlées citoyennement et en négociations quasi permanentes avec un FMI lui aussi contrôlé et géré avec des citoyens volontaires, tirés au sort et renonçant à tout autre mandat ou affaire.
 
 2- On ne nationalise pas les banques d'affaires, commerciales ou mutuelles. Leurs directions deviennent soumises à leurs sociétaires sur la base de: un humain égale une voix et non plus suivant le nombre d'actions ou de parts de chacun.

- Les rémunérations y vont au maximum de la moitié au double de la norme (Les chefs ont déjà l'avantage d'avoir des métiers plus intéressants que leurs subordonnés et il est malsain pour eux, leur famille, leurs amis qu'ils travaillent trop).

- Les taux de crédit des prêts sont limités à un maximum (taux d'usure connu et enseigné dès l'école) fixé par un FMI rénové, lié à une ONU démocratisée (Deux poids, deux mesures pour le nucléaire international est insupportable).
*********

Ezili Danto
--- On Mon, 4/6/09, Michel Portal <michel....@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

Vedrine, E.

unread,
Apr 6, 2009, 2:27:21 PM4/6/09
to haiti-...@googlegroups.com

My box is completely full. Please, unscribe me. Thanks!

E. W. Vedrine,
































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> From: michel....@wanadoo.fr
> Subject: [Haïti-Nation:4681] Suite monnaie
> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:17:36 +0200
> To: haiti-...@googlegroups.com
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