Hackerspace SG is becoming a pig sty

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DK

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Feb 20, 2010, 2:43:46 AM2/20/10
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Hi all

If you guys, gals and children open your eyes and take a careful look
around hackerspace, you will notice that this place is fast becoming a
pig sty. In fact, I think some pigs have better living environment
than us. (Apologies to our Muslim members. Sorry, I seriously cannot
find another name for it other than pig sty)

I know I have been nagging about this again and again. But have to
repeat myself again. Can everyone please be more responsible when you
are in Hackerspace? As far as I know, there is only 1 rule in
Hackerspace, that is to clean up after use. But it seems to me that
many people are not following this one simple rule. And the
responsibility does not end after you throw your rubbish into the
dustbin. Someone need to empty the dustbin. I know some of you have
also been emptying the dustbin everytime they come to hackerspace. But
the responsible people aren't able to come to hackerspace every single
day. Everyone need to play their part to keep the place clean.

We are still having lots of ants in hackerspace despite the fact that
we gotten lots of ant poison. I think the poison alone is not going to
work if everyone don't maintain cleanliness here. And if we don't do
something about this, I think we will start to have roaches and event
rats someday. Seriously everyone. PLEASE wake up, do something before
we need to hire professional pest busters.

After drinking, please rinse your cup and put it on top of the
dishwasher. I've lost count on the number of times I find cup on
tables. The cups on the dishwasher does not have legs. Someone needs
to put them in the dishwasher and turn on the dishwasher every once in
a while. When the dishwasher finish its job, someone needs to empty
them before the whole dishwasher stink like a sewage. Seriously, I
think I can teach my 7 year old nephew to do all these. I don't think
we have any members that is still in primary school.

The table are always full of things. If you have to leave things in
hackerspace, please put them in the cardboard. If they are too bulky,
then please put them in an orderly manner before you leave.

And the ice maker in the fridge. For goodness sake, the fridge we got
does not have an automatic ice maker. SOMEONE needs to refill the
water in order to make ice. Do we have to put another freaking label
on the fridge to TEACH all of you to do this?

I keep saying that all the labels in hackerspace are a huge disgrace
to the members here. Some of the instructions (like the 1 on the
toilet bowl) are COMMON SENSE! I have no idea why the heck we need
those labels. Even kids know that they are suppose to clean the toilet
bowl after use if there are stain. WHY is it that the members of
hackerspace need a label to remind them something that little kids
know since primary school? Are we all adults here? Is there any sense
of responsibilities here? Are we treating Hackerspace like a public
place or a home?

I hope this is going to be the last time I need to bring up this issue
on google group. We are all adults. Please behave like one.

PS: I know some of you have been very responsible and keeping the
place clean. Thank you. This posting is for those who aren't.

Meng Weng Wong

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Feb 20, 2010, 3:56:54 AM2/20/10
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On Feb 19, 2010, at 11:43 PM, DK wrote:
I keep saying that all the labels in hackerspace are a huge disgrace
to the members here. Some of the instructions (like the 1 on the
toilet bowl) are COMMON SENSE! I have no idea why the heck we need
those labels. Even kids know that they are suppose to clean the toilet
bowl after use if there are stain. WHY is it that the members of
hackerspace need a label to remind them something that little kids
know since primary school? Are we all adults here? Is there any sense
of responsibilities here? Are we treating Hackerspace like a public
place or a home?


I honestly think the problem is more one of education than motivation.  Many Singaporeans lack education in housekeeping, and the unique home environments here make it possible for people to outsource many parts of their life.  Some families teach certain things to children, and other families teach other things.  It is a natural consequence of the homo economicus model.  As the world becomes more and more multicultural we should become less and less surprised at the things that other people don't know.

I'm out of town until March 9, but after I get back I will be happy to teach a class in how to operate the dishwasher, clear trash, etc.  As a situationist, I don't believe in the idea of common sense -- only education and experience.

Huang Yanying

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Feb 20, 2010, 9:23:47 AM2/20/10
to hacker...@googlegroups.com
On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM, DK <elo...@gmail.com> wrote:

If you guys, gals and children open your eyes and take a careful look
around hackerspace, you will notice that this place is fast becoming a
pig sty.


I share your pain. I have been managing my batch of 40+ students for 2 years plus, and I find that terror, constant nagging, public humiliation, balanced with a large dollop of mothering works the best when it comes to getting people to keep the place clean. (Yes, I am now pro-PAP after my experience.)

If you do not prefer a reign of terror, then maybe a mass cleaning every month or so might work. You open it to all members. You publish a list of duties to do (eg, wipe tables, wash toilet, vaccum floor) on a certain date and time, and let people volunteer which duties they want to take up. They have to bring their own cleaning equipment, rags, detergent or such, if the venue does not have them.

At the end of the cleaning, you layout a little food and drinks as a thank you gesture to all those who helped out. You make it a fun community bonding event. Usually, people are attracted to that kind of thing.

We do it every three months in school, because we have a regular cleaning duty roster for every day. But Hackerspace might require something more frequent if nobody is constantly cleaning the place.

Jason Ong

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Feb 20, 2010, 10:24:39 PM2/20/10
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That can be a nice hack on the socio-hygene problem. I don't mind joining in mass cleaning (after my foot gets well) for good company sake.  

Regards,
Jason Ong

--
Sent from my iPhone 

Luther Goh Lu Feng

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Feb 21, 2010, 1:07:14 AM2/21/10
to hacker...@googlegroups.com

I appreciate DK for bringing up the point. It's an ugly and thankless job but someone has remind/nag at everyone when things are not right.

I was MIA from HSG for the past 2 weeks due to a persistant flu bug and work. But I took a few hours off on Thur afternoon to meet an electrician to assess our electrical concerns (update in a seprate mail). I was much dismayed that HSG looked quite messy. I wasn't sure that I wanted to bring my friends over to HSG for a tour.

++ to Yanying's idea. I joined one of the cleaning sessions with the 2 Justins, Preetam and DK last Dec. Various others also helped out in adhoc cleaning sessions to prepare for our open house. It was much easier when there is more than a pair of helping hands around. Perhaps the cleanliness issue will be an item on the next plenum's agenda.


Roland Turner

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Feb 21, 2010, 7:04:59 AM2/21/10
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This (cleanliness) is the one area where a "rule" seems appropriate. It may make sense to place a pre-lock-up checklist on the back of the front door.

If that form of reminder doesn't suffice to get people doing the needful, then perhaps a public-bathroom-style sign-off sheet should be considered, but this is pretty irksome (we'd also need to track who's locking up, which I'm less than comfortable with).

I've added it the the agenda for Tueday's plenum.

- Raz


Huang Yanying

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Feb 21, 2010, 9:33:15 AM2/21/10
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Going off on a slight tangent... it would be very convenient (maybe that's not the right word... but anyway...) if the dustbin itself is a neurotic Hackerspace pet. And being an insecure dustbin with serious emotional problems, it will sulk if nobody shows it frequent care and attention. Every six hours or so, it will shake and vibrate and whine continously "Oei, check me and see if I need to be emptied!" or wallow in self-pity "Nobody cares about me anymore. (*sniff) " until somebody goes to look in on it.
 
(If you want it to shut up when the lights are off, I guess you can put in a light dependent resistor...)
 
Anyway. 
 
We have a hack at home for reminding us to switching off the water heater. It's a cheap motion sensor plugged in together with the water heater electrical outlet. It goes "Hello!" at us everytime we walk out of the bathroom with the heater still on. Because it was so annoying, we always switch off the heater immediately after our shower. It's extremely effective. It's like nagging, except it's automated.

Tamás Herman

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Feb 21, 2010, 11:08:20 AM2/21/10
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i propose to take DK to a pig sty.
let him clean it.
make it like a beginner / easy level in games:
no need to do it bare feet. can wear rubber boots.

(i did it several times at my grandparents' place of course...)

i've also seen a short news in the TV when i was a kid.
some psychologists was conducting camps for children who were crazily
afraid of dirt. they said it's a growing problem in cities where the
hygienic norm i getting closer and closer to Operating Rooms in
everyday homes.
(im envisioning the proliferation of "back shed" custom silicon chip
manufacturing soon which will happen in the kitchen or toilet of
HDBs...)

sterility has drawbacks too. makes the immune system weaker, less
trained and apparently it even generates long email threads too. it's
a new discovery of this research area, though ;)

now i have doubts again whether should i swim in the ocean this week
around the James Bond islands, while millions of ugly sea animals are
defecating into the water... :/ damn it.. ;D

btw, did u know what is the finnish title of "james bond the 007 agent"?
iirc, "yamesh bondy nolla nolla saitseman agenti"
(in "anglo-phonetical" transcription)

--
tom

Jason Ong

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Feb 21, 2010, 11:30:34 AM2/21/10
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A dustbin with a weight sensor and alarm that goes off once weight gets past a certain threshold sounds cool.




--
Cheers,
JasonOng

---
twitter: @jasonong
friendfeed: jasonong
facebook: velvetpd

Huang Yanying

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Feb 21, 2010, 11:48:28 AM2/21/10
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On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Jason Ong <velv...@gmail.com> wrote:
A dustbin with a weight sensor and alarm that goes off once weight gets past a certain threshold sounds cool.
 
There's still the food waste problem, though. Chicken bones weigh next to nothing, but they will still need clearing within a few hours before the flies come. (Gas sensors? But I don't think they are odour detectors though...)

Jason Ong

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Feb 21, 2010, 12:00:32 PM2/21/10
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How about a dustbin lid to ward off pests?

Coleman Yee

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Feb 21, 2010, 9:00:19 PM2/21/10
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How about no dustbin?

The only place you can throw your junk is downstairs.



Jeffrey 'jf' Lim

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Feb 21, 2010, 9:26:44 PM2/21/10
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On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Coleman Yee <colem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about no dustbin?
>
> The only place you can throw your junk is downstairs.
>

no-food policy. (as inspired by the no-shoes policy)

-jf

--
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."
--Richard Stallman

"It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not help."
-- Andrew Fear, Software Product Manager, NVIDIA Corporation
http://kerneltrap.org/node/7228

Roland Turner

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Feb 21, 2010, 10:45:16 PM2/21/10
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I'd go almost that far. One of the problems that I've had when cleaning before locking up is working out when I've found all of the bins. I'd suggest that we drop to two bins:

- One near the top of the stairs (it's easier to drop rubbish there and take it downstairs when you leave)
- One near the dishwasher (taking plates downstairs to scrape them != good)
- For female guests, we might do well to switch to a supply of baggies with instructions to take the result downstairs immediately. I lack expertise in this area. Yanyun: would you be OK with this? Is it likely to suit female guests?


- Raz


On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Coleman Yee <colem...@gmail.com> wrote:

Roland Turner

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Feb 21, 2010, 10:47:46 PM2/21/10
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You lack ambition: http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/02/death-star-laser-zaps-mosqitoes-dead/

If it works for mozzies...

- Raz



On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Jason Ong <velv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Roland Turner

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Feb 21, 2010, 10:48:01 PM2/21/10
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I've created a project page: http://hackerspacesg.pbworks.com/Cleanliness

yy

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Feb 22, 2010, 1:16:39 AM2/22/10
to HackerspaceSG
I'm fine with any form of arrangement regarding bins. I'm use to
having my own plastic bag tied to my chair as a bin for my art trash,
and tossing that out when i leave.

No food in HSG is taking things a bit too far though. Not sure how
that would work out with the events at hackerspace anyway.

On Feb 22, 11:45 am, Roland Turner <roland.tur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd go almost that far. One of the problems that I've had when cleaning
> before locking up is working out when I've found all of the bins. I'd
> suggest that we drop to two bins:
>
> - One near the top of the stairs (it's easier to drop rubbish there and take
> it downstairs when you leave)
> - One near the dishwasher (taking plates downstairs to scrape them != good)
> - For female guests, we might do well to switch to a supply of baggies with
> instructions to take the result downstairs immediately. I lack expertise in
> this area. Yanyun: would you be OK with this? Is it likely to suit female
> guests?
>
> - Raz
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Coleman Yee <coleman...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > How about no dustbin?
>
> > The only place you can throw your junk is downstairs.
>

> > On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 1:00 AM, Jason Ong <velve...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> How about a dustbin lid to ward off pests?
>

> >> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:48 AM, Huang Yanying <yan.and.y...@gmail.com>wrote:

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