Building a PC. Surpisingly hard & expensive in Singapore. Tips?

[Derek Sivers]

I'm planning on building a good PC from parts. I've done it many
times in the U.S., but this is my first time in Singapore.

In the U.S., you just go to Amazon or NewEgg.com and pick your parts,
which of course are all at the lowest prices on earth, and they show
up at your door a couple days later.

So I'm still a little confused and stunned that there doesn't seem to
be any online shopping for this kind of stuff in Singapore. (Is
there?)

I found hardwarezone.com.sg which has Sim Lim Square price lists
apparently scanned from flyers as PDFs.

But even then - an NVIDIA Quadro 4000 video card is $779 USD ($950
SGD) on NewEgg.com - but the best price at Sim Lim Square seems to be
$2200 SGD.

But that can't be the best price, right? Otherwise why wouldn't a
competitor just buy it for full retail price from the U.S., pay for
FedEx shipping, and still make $1000 profit for selling it?

What would you guys recommend? Just go walk around Sim Lim Square (or
Funan mall) - and spend a few hours to walk into every shop? Or is
there some better way?

- Derek

[Martin]

I would be VERY interested in a solution for this as well.

Not having an amazon store or any similar competitor in Singapore somehow degrades this country to a third world country in a digital sense :)

I still believe that I must be missing something.

Maybe the country is so small that nobody buys online because the next mall is just a hop away?

Best regards,

Martin

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[Alvin Jiang]

Part of the fun is walking around the stores comparing prices.

It's a rather different experience than building one via mail order in
the US. If you can get yourself to Sim Lim, you can start building as
soon as you can get the parts home!

Common parts are the same or slightly cheaper as you may find online
(after shipping and taxes). The price difference grows bigger with less
common parts. People on hardwarezone do occasionally make "mass orders"
where the price difference is large or a part is hard to find locally.

As in the US it's very much a volume game, but the shops compete with
each other in a small market here hence the focus on easy to move items.

If you're looking for high end I suggest you first ask the stores what
their "best prices" are. It may be that they don't even keep stock, and
you may be able to place a deposit and get it at a much better price.

Or you could just order the less bulky items from the US.

Alvin

[archibald deng]

Shopping is great. If you have the time and inclination. 

Sim Lim Square is my go to place. But check out CASE - Consumer Association of Singapore one store in SLS clocked up 165,000 consumer complaints in a period of 4 years, and it is still operating. Another which just screwed me over three days ago is already an up-and-coming with 30,000 CASE complaints. Plus, one more from yours truly.

I think it should be mandatory for stores to display the Quantity of the Complaints the nearest thousand. Also a digital portal for future shoppers, suppliers, tradesmen to review the validity of each complaint. "Wah lau, they charge me so much, internet only half price, Bas***ds lah!" is obviously not a valid complaint, so the submitter should be stricken or warned against acting the douche.

Ultimately, it will be condensed into smartphone Apps with binary decision making processes. - Thumbs Up - Thumbs Down - PAYING members will enter the beyond the Free Quantitative portion of the App and go into User-Generated Qualitative Portion. And find Relevance - rated tweets on the "crims" of the proprietor. 

Append Functionality-

The submitter's contribution has an EXPIRY date, that's need to be refresh. Submitters will be prompted or invited to Edit based on a new interaction. Meaning after 5 months for instance, the submitter will be prompted to re-post an edited or appended version.

(a) this creates user investigators who earnestly do follow-ups
(b) stores will actually have a Chance at Redemption in internet eyes

(c) additional Qualitative information may be garnered from on-going processes. Maybe this CEO Tan Ah Kow is serial scammer or constantly falls in breach of section 403 of Singapore Company Act. The software and it's maintained database will follow the unscrupulous cur to his reformation or grave.

Okay. I burned enough calories with this. Going for lunch.

  

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[Mingming Wang]

I'm also wondering why in Singapore the online shopping industry is nearly none?!

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Derek Sivers <de...@sivers.org> wrote:

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[Jan Detlefsen]

i don't know about SG, but in general it's a pretty tough business to
sell PC components online. prices are dropping fast and margins are
thin. might be a reason nobody does that. of course if you got a brick
and mortar shop and do online sales it shouldn't be a problem. shops
that i know usually use drop shipping agreements to not stock any
inventory. still you almost have no budget for marketing campaigns.
they tend to pop up and go bust instantly.

> --
> Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat
>

[Jason Ong]

1-hour-shopping-trip-instant-gratification VS 1-week/day-waiting-anxiously-for-delivery

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Cheers,
JasonOng

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[Martin]

Jason,

in Germany Amazon ships on the same day if you order before noon!

If anything is wrong with the item, you can send it back within 14 days and get back your money no matter what.

No shopping experience in the world can beat that.

Best regards,

Martin

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Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat

[Alvin Jiang]

It's probably a matter of personal preference, but even though I love
that element14 will ship same day singapore if I order before 12.30,
nothing beats being able to hop over to SL tower any weekday (sat less
options) and pick my electronic components by hand.

I suppose if you came from an environment where you are used to ordering
your stuff and waiting for it, same day delivery is fantastic but
growing up where just about anything was available within an hour's
travelling distance I would pick 24-hour physical shopping over same-day
delivery online shopping.

But hey, I also prefer McDonalds 24 hour drive-through to delivery. Yet
I just heard a couple of expats wonder if McD's in USA/France will ever
start delivering.

Alvin.

> I found hardwarezone.com.sg <http://hardwarezone.com.sg>

> --
> Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat

[Meng Weng Wong]

http://www.onlineshop.com.sg/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10 seems to have a lot of material though i've never bought anything more than AA rechargeables from them before.

wish i had more free time, then i could actually shop!  i find buying online much more efficient in terms of time spent on the actual act.  i don't mind waiting.

[archibald deng]

It is ASSURANCE that I have to contend with.
Sim Lim Square or Tower, is full of everything I want, except assurance. I don't have Alvin's accumen in knowing what tech gizmo or widget i suppose to be buy. My mom just pins the cash and paper with shopping list and sends me off to the store.
I doubt many people know Exactly what they Want.

Now i have to spend extra time and resources fighting it out with Bizgram for selling defective goods. it is a bother and a hassle.
ASSURANCE is non-existent here.

The bogus thing about physical shopping is the lack of enforcement of high standards. Delivery and representation. An industry wide control of standards. With free agents running all around, no hierarchy, no craftsmen's code, you end up with loads of unhappy customers. 
The gulf between customer satisfaction and proprietors turning over high volumes of UnReturned merchandized is HIGH.

Paypal is a fantastic system for transactions. But more importantly, I think this could be the PLATFORM marketplace.Tell PayPal some hong kong guy sent you a broken pieces of a computer fan packed in bubble wrap and brown envelope and PayPal investigates, concludes and send you your money back. Strikes merchant off PayPal (actually, I am not certain but maybe that happens). Ta-Dah, ASSURANCE.

Finally if i work and travel and want to do other funner things. Spending 2-3hours of to and fro travel to Sim Lim Square and shopping and haggling with Sharks seems too much work. Online shopping, Online assurance, Deliveries. Yes to all three.

All the referenced online shops of Singapore suck in interface, I don't feel teased and stimulated into buying stuff i don't need. That feeling is critical.

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[Jason Ong]

How about a hybrid? Window shop all you want and add items to shopping cart in mobile app. Press buy button, paypal transacts and delivery starts.

Cheers,
Jason

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> --
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[archibald deng]

Here's a website that does well in Online Sales & Delivery of stuff you order.

www.NutritionPark.com

started by a couple of guys in National University of Singapore, despite a really uninspiring website. They have a sensible and clear way of doing business. 

They also deliver in two or three days time, giving me special option to buy a faster delivery service.

While Singaporeans have a reluctance of online shopping, the cost savings to businesses in terms of sacking or redeploying majority of low-level staff, not paying SGD8,000 per month at Orchard Road Retail shops that are 80% of the time Empty, makes it a Worthwhile consideration.

Change the buying culture, and the profit culture changes. Doesn't it?

Seriously, I get better helmets, better safety, new manufacture dates and lower prices from Online Portals that link me to the United Kingdom. Add the SGD100 shipping cost and I still come out ahead. Those local helmet sellers sure have their lies well rehearsed. "Thermoplastic can't make it compared to fiberglass" Sheesh, it's all styrofoam laddie, and the impact testing SAYS it takes the knocks and slams better.

[archibald deng]

that's genius. shopping without the shopping basket !

also,
without a shopping basket, a consumer doesn't feel the weight of its basket, it won't register, okay heavy load time to go to check out counter.

-

-

-

pack it up and send it to this address

OR

have it ready and at the New "Multi- DROP point of SIM LIM SQUARE at precisely this hour and minute. If my courier, or myself

is late, i agree to being charged a handling cost by the drop point. Which in truth acts like a Drive-Thru / Post office for all shopping. Drive, Wait, Get going.

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[Jason Ong]

I'm reminded of Tesco's subway shopping trial in South Korea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJVoYsBym88

[archibald deng]

Fr-eak-ing AW-some

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[Derek Sivers]

On Jul 9, 5:50 pm, archibald deng <arch.deng...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is ASSURANCE that I have to contend with.

I agree. To me, this is the biggest point.

When I shop at Amazon or NewEgg, I know I'm getting:
(1) - the best product, since I can quickly compare all available
products and read reviews
(2) - the lowest possible price
(3) - a brand new product, never used
(4) - a great return policy

Absolute assurance. I don't have to worry that it's going to be
cheaper somewhere else, or used, etc. Best product at the best price.

> Spending 2-3 hours at Sim Lim Square and shopping and haggling..

Agree, again. This one I can't emphasize enough. It's FAST!

Need a pair of noise-cancelling headphones? Just pop over to Amazon,
choose the category, sort by best-rated, take 30 seconds to scan
through some quick reviews, and buy with 1-click. TOTAL time spent:
FOUR MINUTES(!) from whimsical idea to completed purchase, and you got
the best possible product at the best possible price, too.

So far it's the ONLY thing about Singapore that's truly a surprise to
me, since moving here. For such a "shopping-culture", especially with
the kiasu factor, it's surprising how many people are happily getting
ripped-off every day at the malls, paying top retail dollar or getting
bad deals.

(One tiny example: I take CoQ10 vitamins. In the U.S. they are $6.50
per bottle, mail-order. I went to the GNC at a mall in Singapore.
Same bottle. $250.00! If someone had all available information before
buying, nobody on earth would buy them at that price. That's how I
feel about something like the Quadro 4000 video card. Why pay $2200
at Sim Lim when I can have it FedEx'd from the US or Japan for $900?)

Seems like it'd be a great opportunity for a company like Rakuten (if
not Amazon) to set up here and just dominate. The current situation
has a lot of room for improvement. But I'm still trying to just
understand why online shopping hasn't caught on here.

[Meng Weng Wong]

On Jul 9, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Derek Sivers wrote:

(One tiny example: I take CoQ10 vitamins.  In the U.S. they are $6.50
per bottle, mail-order.  I went to the GNC at a mall in Singapore.
Same bottle. $250.00!  If someone had all available information before
buying, nobody on earth would buy them at that price.  That's how I
feel about something like the Quadro 4000 video card.  Why pay $2200
at Sim Lim when I can have it FedEx'd from the US or Japan for $900?)

Seems like it'd be a great opportunity for a company like Rakuten (if
not Amazon) to set up here and just dominate.  The current situation
has a lot of room for improvement.  But I'm still trying to just
understand why online shopping hasn't caught on here.

Yar.  I don't understand it either.  It'd be a good case study for some MBA student.

In the meantime I make do with www.borderlinx.com.

[Martin]

Maybe it is because there are no forced return policies. In Germany EVERY shop who sells online MUST take back EVERY order within 14 days without questions. Even if the product is in perfect shape and all. This is a huge risk for online shops because they will naturally have to deal with many people sending back good stuff that has been ripped open and maybe was used and thus lost a bit of its quality. Not to mention all the useless shipping fees, that have to be paid by the shop owner as well. 

On the other hand it builds a lot of trust in the consumers. They don't care about a shops reputation so much any more. They just know that they can get their money back quickly.

As long as such a policy is not forced by law you as a customer have no means to be safe when buying online. You would have to invest a lot of time and effort in order to google the shop and ask friends in order to find out about its reputation. That time might also be used by just going out and buying the stuff on the street.

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[Tay Ray Chuan]

On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Derek Sivers <de...@sivers.org> wrote:
> So far it's the ONLY thing about Singapore that's truly a surprise to
> me, since moving here.  For such a "shopping-culture", especially with
> the kiasu factor, it's surprising how many people are happily getting
> ripped-off every day at the malls, paying top retail dollar or getting
> bad deals.
>
> (One tiny example: I take CoQ10 vitamins.  In the U.S. they are $6.50
> per bottle, mail-order.  I went to the GNC at a mall in Singapore.
> Same bottle. $250.00!  If someone had all available information before
> buying, nobody on earth would buy them at that price.  That's how I
> feel about something like the Quadro 4000 video card.  Why pay $2200
> at Sim Lim when I can have it FedEx'd from the US or Japan for $900?)

I think it's because while Singaporeans are kiasu, they are also a
lazy lot. I see this as a "convenience premium" - paying more for the
added convenience. Pop by a shop, grab the item, pay and you're done.
Well, that's their idea of convenience; for us, it would be
Amazon+FedEx, just a few clicks away. (Don't forget, the definition of
convenience differs from people to people, not everyone is tech-savvy
like you and me. I still think there's a "fear" of online purchasing
locally.)

--
Cheers,
Ray Chuan

[Derek Sivers]

On Jul 9, 9:58 pm, Tay Ray Chuan <rcta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> the definition of convenience differs from people to people, not everyone is tech-savvy

> there's a "fear" of online purchasing locally.

Great points.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I really appreciate it.

- Derek

[Alvin Jiang]

> <http://www.borderlinx.com>.
>
>

No surprise - Singaporeans love the experience of shopping rather than
just buying something.

Unless there's a major culture shift or a lot more busy people who care
more about acquiring something than the experience of doing so it's hard
to see "e-commerce" take off in an already small market.

Tangentally related:
http://www.insidestartup.sg/marketing/marketing-in-singlish-lah/
http://www.insidestartup.sg/marketing/the-lobangclub-manifesto-beyond-price-comparison/

[Mingming Wang]

Even boys enjoy shopping here? 

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[Jasper C]

> It's probably a matter of personal preference, but even though I love
> that element14 will ship same day singapore if I order before 12.30,
> nothing beats being able to hop over to SL tower any weekday (sat less
> options) and pick my electronic components by hand.

Hey Alvin,

What do you think of element14/Farnell overall, and compared to
DigiKey? I used to have this love/hate thing with Farnell. It's
better than Sim Lim when you want something specific, but their
product search was crap (filter options were duplicated/products
listed wrongly) and prices sometimes gave me sticker shop ($18 for a
special capacitor here vs $3 from DigiKey). They've cleaned up their
search and prices seem to have very recently undergone a large
revision (downwards : ) ), though Digikey still has the edge in
range...

JC

On Jul 9, 4:43 pm, Alvin Jiang <aji...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I suppose if you came from an environment where you are used to ordering
> your stuff and waiting for it, same day delivery is fantastic but
> growing up where just about anything was available within an hour's
> travelling distance I would pick 24-hour physical shopping over same-day
> delivery online shopping.
>
> But hey, I also prefer McDonalds 24 hour drive-through to delivery. Yet
> I just heard a couple of expats wonder if McD's in USA/France will ever
> start delivering.
>
> Alvin.
>
> On 09/07/2011 15:11, Martin wrote:
>
> > Jason,
>
> > in Germany Amazon ships on the same day if you order before noon!
> > If anything is wrong with the item, you can send it back within 14 days
> > and get back your money no matter what.
>
> > No shopping experience in the world can beat that.
>
> > Best regards,
> > Martin
>

> > On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Jason Ong <velve...@gmail.com
> > <mailto:velve...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> >     1-hour-shopping-trip-instant-gratification VS
> >     1-week/day-waiting-anxiously-for-delivery
>

> >     On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Mingming Wang <mingofd...@gmail.com

[Alvin Jiang]

I think you've answered your own question :)

I don't use digikey (I've used RS) but as a consumer I'm very happy that
they call to confirm, charge to credit card and deliver same day (via
courier, not drop in mailbox), all for an 80c order. Even if the same
thing is $1 for 2 min quantity at SL tower.

[Jasper C]

I think, once upon a time, prices for computer stuff were pretty good
here. Somewhere along the way they just started going up. I was
pretty suprised a couple years ago that laptops were cheaper in "rip-
off-Britain" than they are over here. (For the uninitiated,
conversion from US to UK prices is commonly described as: keep the
numbers, but just replace the dollar sign with a pound sign...)

There's probably a few things about the retail scene here that have
made it so, the sky high land cost for one. That affects everything:
retail space, warehousing, factored into pay, etc etc.

I'm also given to suspect there's also an attitude of decide your
profit margin first, then charge accordingly.

So yes, it is unbelievable the kind of prices that are charged here.
I do check overseas prices and order from there when it makes sense,
but it's not always easy because some retailers don't accept
international payment, or shipping is high, and there's aways the
warranty issue.

And there are a whole lot of stinkers at Sim Lim. I now end up buying
from just 2-3 stores that so far have been pretty decent.

A friend tuned me in to this local online shop:

http://www.potterhouse.net/

I wouldn't say prices are that competitive, but gives me another
option of seeing what's available locally and for how much in addition
to the online SL pricelists.

Again, I think it's the land costs that make something like Amazon or
Newegg unfeasible in Singapore. Overseas they have the advantage in
not needing retail stores and sales staff, and if you can get a nice
big chunk of land for a warehouse cheap, I'd imagine that's a whole
lot of cost savings.

[vinnie]

I'll add my own 2c here.

I think it's 'purchasing power' - which there's loads of in the US and
not as much of in Singapore due to the population size - SG is just
one big city in the US. Amazon.com can do well in the US across 50
states with 350 million people... I noticed this same thing in China,
where electronics were twice the price as the US (it didn't matter
that they were made in china and shipped to the US, it was the fact
that the US buys so much, the demand can keep profit per item very
low.)

I also agree that an Amazon serves amazing utility for buying items
from $20 - $1000, but I guess it can't work in every market, at least
not just yet.... I was shocked to find things like power strips
costing 4x as much in Singapore as they do in the US, or the inability
to find inexpensive wifi routers compared to the US, even at Sim Lim.

Ebay/Craigslist are other examples of great ways to find cheap
hardware in the US, but they don't translate so well in other places.
And craigslist allows you to pick up same day and walk away with the
feeling that you landed quite a find!

vinnie

[Coleman Yee]

The US is a vast country and it's not always convenient to travel to somewhere to buy a not-so-common item, especially if you're not living in a big city.

Thus long before amazon.com came along there were already numerous mail order shopping services. The demand was already there and given enough demand there came more competition and with that, more incentive to provide better services - better assurance, better price, etc. When the internet and amazon.com and more easily-accessible information came along, things improved even further for the consumer.

Singapore on the other hand is a small market AND a small location. Sim Lim isn't too inconvenient to travel to, and by the time most people had an internet connection, it was already known (rightly or not) to be the place to get cheap computer stuff.

This means that for most people here, if they want to buy computer hardware, Sim Lim is the first place that comes to mind. They take for granted that some shop in there should have a pretty good price (despite the occasional horror story they've heard), if you're willing to shop around a bit.

It's only those who are willing to take the extra step to check prices online who discover that the prices aren't always anything close to good.

Hopefully, with more people augmenting their physical shopping with online info gathering, the situation will improve for the consumer.

[Kim Yong]

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Derek Sivers <de...@sivers.org> wrote:

I'm planning on building a good PC from parts.  I've done it many
times in the U.S., but this is my first time in Singapore.

In the U.S., you just go to Amazon or NewEgg.com and pick your parts,
which of course are all at the lowest prices on earth, and they show
up at your door a couple days later.

So I'm still a little confused and stunned that there doesn't seem to
be any online shopping for this kind of stuff in Singapore.  (Is
there?)

I found hardwarezone.com.sg which has Sim Lim Square price lists

apparently scanned from flyers as PDFs.

But even then - an NVIDIA Quadro 4000 video card is $779 USD ($950
SGD) on NewEgg.com - but the best price at Sim Lim Square seems to be
$2200 SGD.

Hi Derek,

  Quadro 4000 is a low volume product. I don't think you will get more than a few sales a year for this.

There will be minimum number of 4000's the supplier need to buy and the risk of these cards depreciate as opposed to
the more popular mainstream ones that are moving fast. 

 

--
There's no place like ~

[Jasper C]

Agreed about the size of the market... SG is about 5 million people,
and the US is what... 300+ million?

Another good thing about Digikey (and Mouser, both electronics
components distributors) is that above a certain amount, shipping is
free. Digikey has just one warehouse, and ships worldwide from there
(and I think they had a tagline with regards to that - act local,
think global or something). So for larger orders, if I don't mind a
bit of a wait, ordering from them is no more difficult than ordering
from Farnell locally. It'd be nice if that kind of model could apply
to more businesses, though I can understand it's not a practical
option in a lot of cases...

JC

[Wong Koi Hin]

My SGD 0.02

For an informal market analysis of consumer buying habits, best to ask
the ladies.

I happen to know a few. From information I gleamed from them, online
shopping is significant and getting more so over time. We are talking
about stuff like clothes, accessories etc. Many online stores are
flexible in payment habits, and relatively professional. Paypal, local
bank transfers etc.

Extrapolating from a sampling of geek shopping habits to the idea that
Singaporeans generally are adverse to online shopping is probably
incorrect.

How about considering that there is an insufficient market here for
DIYers to justify an online store? Or if you think there are
sufficient numbers then, there you go, a market niche dying to be
filled.

I have bought robotic kits online as well as locally when the price
made sense. Local companies that want to charge an arm and a leg I
don't do business with them (recently asked for a quote for a robotic
kit and the price was more than the same kit from US plus FedEx)

My gut feel is we will get an online outfit or outfits sooner or
later. Maybe even one of you guys on this list.

Cheers,

Koi Hin

[Alvin Jiang]

Don't think anyone has suggested Singaporeans are adverse to online
shopping, but I daresay Singaporeans are undaunted (and even
entertained) by a physical shopping experience (probably due to reasons
mentioned by Coleman). If online shopping is available too, even better.

As for why it's not available... I think Vinnie makes a good case - no
market due to small population.

[Kiran Joshi]

This issue was also bothering me when I first came to SG. It's been a year and a half and I'm still no closer to the answer. I think for every argument there can be counter arguments. It might even be different reasons for each category of product. Heck, one still sees CD stores here :o

Just another anecdote. Right now, I hear it's popular for people to buy Korean clothes online. They can't find the fashions here so they buy with friends in bulk and ship it since it's cheaper that way. I think total purchase has to be at least S$300 to be 'worth it'. Young Singaporeans tend to be tech savvy, even the 'non-tech people'.

Another question that's slightly related. Everyone likes to save money but maybe people from different cultures perceive the issues uniquely. Even with the UK and Euro tax on electronic goods, Europeans continue to buy. I think there is an acceptance that the higher costs are part of taxes, high standard of living for the poor, etc. In Singapore, there might be a belief and acceptance of higher cost of goods/living being a first world city-state. In Nepal/India, price is extremely important, unless it's something you can show off to show your high status. Possibly in dog-eat-dog America, prices have a bigger influence given its own history. So maybe the markets can bear different prices based upon the cultures and companies are pricing accordingly.

==

Kiran

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[Martin]

Kiran has a good point.

Obviously the fact that Singapore has the highest rate of millionaires in the world must have an effect on prices...

Best regards,

Martin

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[Owen Jones]

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Martin <martin.b...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Obviously the fact that Singapore has the highest rate of millionaires in
> the world must have an effect on prices...

I've heard this statistic before, and I'm curious to the source, can
you enlighten us?

-Owen.

[Martin]

Quick googling revealed:

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/11/where-the-worlds-millionaires-live-the-top-10-countries/

I think I read this for the first time in an essay of DIE ZEIT as a small sidenote. Later I found more online articles on this released by Financial Times Deutschland (biggest competitor of DIE ZEIT, hehe). 

Best regards,

Martin

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[jeremy]

hi,

having done this very thing here (building my own PC's), here's my
feedback:
- sim lim is fine, but avoid levels 1-3
- fuwell on level 4 was my choice for "big enough/professional enough
to inspire confidence" and "cheap enough to consider". your mileage
may vary.
- we had the same experience with graphics cards, so we ended up going
with off-brand taiwanese cards made with the same/similar chipsets.

i use vpost for a lot of stuff. but take care - there are 2 models for
vpost
1. shop on the vpost site, limited selection crappy prices because of
a markup to arbitrage currency
2. get a virtual us address. shop from any online store at US prices
and wait a while for the delivery

we use option 2, with eyes open on a 10-14 day wait for stuff to be
delivered. and bear in mind that you pay gst + duties for purchases
over sgd $400.

- jeremy

ps: for vitamins - fly to guam and buy from k-mart and the vitamin
shops there. that's what me and my wife did. ;-)

[archer deng]

FORCE RETURN policy very bad. very bad.

Have you met, spoken and observed the creatures on exhibit in Singapore !

They are an incorrigible scruffy bunch of ruffians. Disagree ? Care for a wager, then? 
Put a pile of the local 'Strait Times' Newspaper of a busy thoroughfare full of commuters, rush hour. Place an unattended bronze dish that 'clangs' when the coins are place, maybe a bronze paper weight to hold down flighty paper money. WHAT OUTCOME DO YOU PREDICT?

I predict, the Newspaper stolen en masses and being sold by an 'enterprising' Singaporean recent immigrant of Mother-China about 100 m down from where the pile use to be. The bronze collection dish tumbled over, emptied of coins and paper, and on second thought, that bronze dish is worth something ~ so it comes along to.

This is Singapore's temperament. Revision of Animal Farm >>> Animal Zoo. Starring Singapore denizens that are typified somewhere between the Zebra (most dangerous zoo animal, most chomps of worldwide zookeepers' fingers) and the commune backside of a heard of wildebeest, in flight and scared-sh**l**s. Maybe tow them around for 40-years in a nearby desert and let a generation die out by natural causes, scorpions and rattlesnakes, yep, that would remedy some of the population bugs.

Where was I? Ah, yes. FORCED RETURNS - very very BAD IDEA for the Singapore bunch. Remember they need clean water, high electric fences and only be approached with a ten-foot barge pole, and that, only at the highest necessity. 

On 9 July 2011 21:58, Martin <martin.b...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Maybe it is because there are no forced return policies. In Germany EVERY shop who sells online MUST take back EVERY order within 14 days without questions. Even if the product is in perfect shape and all. This is a huge risk for online shops because they will naturally to deal with many people sending back good stuff that has been ripped open and maybe was used and thus lost a bit of its quality. Not to mention all the useless shipping fees, that have to be paid by the shop owner as well. 

--
Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat

[archer deng]

Spelling

of >>>ON a busy thoroughfare....

heard >>> HERD of wildebeest... (is wildebeest the root word for Olivia WILDE? That's funny ironic)

[Jason Ong]

Just chipping in a little.

As a consumer, I often find myself suddenly discovering something and wanting to get it. I may be in front of a computer but the thought of waiting 1-2 weeks for delivery puts me off and I end up searching for where I can get the same item NOW, take the train, pay and be done with it. 

The night I got my first iPhone, I downloaded a paid app $9.99 and thought "Wow! This is soooo fuss free!" and reinforced what I would say a typical Singaporean shopping syndrome.

When I was younger, and had more leisure time, shopping with friends used to be that "hangout" things to do. ie. You've got something to buy? I'll accompany you. And vice versa. 

Besides having a small market, S'pore also suffers from "nothing to do so I go shopping and watch movie with friends lor".

[Martin]

So we would need an amalgamation of both worlds?

Have a huge portal where every shop can add its inventory. People can compare prices, write / read reviews, and finally buy. Then hop on the MRT and go to the shop where the item is readily packed for them. Nothing-To-Do problem solved and people will even spend MORE money for small shit and food.

Best regards,

Martin

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Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat

[Fazli Mansor]

Perhaps I could contribute a little as I run an online shop... selling books and cds. Well I'm still learning;

Some common reasons given why they refuse/hesitate to buy online

1) Don't trust online purchasing. full stop.

2) Mode of payment hinders purchase

  - Many still have doubts about buying through paypal/credit card let alone have a paypal account/credit card.

  - Some prefer cash payment

  - Others are more familiar with bank transfer

3) Would rather feel and browse through products

4) Want to get hold of products immediately on transaction, not willing to wait for uncertain delivery time

5) Warranty concerns - no well known laws to manage online consumer spending.

6) Still prefer browsing in a physical shop to make a purchase

7) Insufficient product information.. especially with books, buyers would like to flip through the pages but I guess this shouldn't be a problem with hardware.

8) Delivery cost is also a hindrance as buyers look at them as additional cost to the products instead of payment for convenience.

    - I guess this is also similar to the taxation system in Singapore where the GST is usually already included in the displayed price.

    (Personally I feel a little cheated when I'm purchasing things overseas when the tax is not included in the displayed price)

But nevertheless having listed (some of) the hindrances, I believe the online consumer market is growing steadily in Singapore, thanks to budget airlines and coupon sites. It also seems the female population has been more in tuned with online commerce (No surprises as they're the ones driving the offline consumption too), I know friends who spend hundreds of dollars on asos.com, f21 and the likes every month... and female sole proprietors making over $10k profits a month selling clothes through FB and blogs.

With retail space rental prices going over the roof nowadays, there is definitely room for online commerce to grow and more complicated online sales to take place.

Shifting away from the experience I'm having(or what little of it still learning yeah! :P) and back to the topic.. Isn't Dell doing this well to a certain extent - albeit only with their recommended parts?

/fazli

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Jason Ong <velv...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Best Regards,
Fazli Mansor

Hp: +65 91798353
Email: fazli....@gmail.com

LinkedIn: http://sg.linkedin.com/in/fazlimansor | Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/fazlimansor | Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/fazlimansor

[proteus guy]

c'mon Archer - tell us what you truly think - don't hold back! :-)

--

Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat

[archer deng]

I think Fazli has the Ball on this one. This barbecue belongs to the hackerspace originalist, and mmm-mmm does it taste good.

--
Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat

[Martin Bähr]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 04:37:42AM -0700, vinnie wrote:
> I noticed this same thing in China,
> where electronics were twice the price as the US (it didn't matter
> that they were made in china and shipped to the US

actually, that does matter. i heared that chinese companies get a tax
break if they produce for export.

greetings, martin.
--
cooperative communication with sTeam - caudium, pike, roxen and unix
services: debugging, programming, training, linux sysadmin, web development
--
pike programmer working in china community.gotpike.org
foresight developer (open-steam|caudium).org foresightlinux.org
unix sysadmin iaeste.at realss.com
Martin B�hr http://www.iaeste.at/~mbaehr/ is.schon.org

[Jiang Fung Wong]

i thought US is a shopping haven, and prices of tech products are generally lower than the rest of the world, aren't they?

The price isn't in particular expensive in sg. European prices are also higher than in US.

Everyone is lending money to US (buying US treasuries) and they spend the money on cheap tech products. That's the way it is.

Cheers,

Jiang Fung

Twitter @kakarukeys

LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/jianfong

[Jasper C]

Yes, but I have found computer parts cheaper in the UK than they are
here too. Not all parts mind you, and not always by a lot, but given
how the prices are "supposed" to be higher there it's surprising.

Quick fact: Dyson vacuum cleaners are made in Malaysia, but last I
checked were cheaper in the UK than they are here....

[Max Cantor]

actually we spend the bulk of that money on pointless wars and subsidizing baby-boomer-d-bags spending one third of their lives in retirement..

we could fix our deficit issues immediately:

- peg the social security age of retirement to life expectancy and gradually rollover to a defined contribution system

- dont get involved in stupid foreign wars just for fun and for padding halliburton stock

- corollary to above, quit spending money on stupid shit like the F-22 when the last air to air US combat engagement was over Vietnam.

at some level though, as long as most of the world is more fcked up than we are (it is), investors will continue to lend the US money at ridiculously low interest rates. as long as people are letting us borrow so cheaply, its not that crazy for us to take advantage of that..

max

> --
> Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat

[Benjamin Scherrey]

Agreed we can shut down a lot of spending tomorrow and actually improve our standing at home and abroad. We're paying to suffer and cause suffering. One correction - we have had air-to-air engagements on multiple occasions over the Middle East - most notably Reagan in Libya where our F-14 splashed town two Migs. There have been others since then but my understanding is that the result was to bug out before we shot them down. Unfortunately both the Chinese and the Ruskies are putting together fighters that would be more than a match for anything less than an F-22. Why they wanna start a new arms race is beyond me.

   -- Ben

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Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat

[Tamas Herman]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Benjamin Scherrey <prote...@gmail.com> wrote:
> result was to bug out before we shot them down. Unfortunately both the
> Chinese and the Ruskies are putting together fighters that would be more
> than a match for anything less than an F-22. Why they wanna start a new arms
> race is beyond me.

yeah... they should just open source the jet ddesigns.
then release early & release often to avoid duplicate work.
right? :)

--
tom

[Yongsheng]

Haha, open sourced agile development for military tech? Sounds like a
perfect fit!



On Jul 13, 10:28 am, Tamas Herman <hermanta...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jan Detlefsen]

They should Opensource/CC the Space Shuttle. Now thats its not longer
of any use, maybe some technology might find it's way into other
sectors.

> --
> Chat: http://hackerspace.sg/chat
>